Octopus Overlords

I'm sure he isn't an idiot - that's the problem.

malchior wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:01 pm Really? How do they keep track? In most states a poll is anonymous - you just check in.

It is really anonymous? No one can see how I vote but my ballot always has a number on it and I always sign in. I don't know about the absentee ballot. I've never done one before.

Edit:

Thinking about it, and again not ever having seen absentee ballot, really they would only need to know that you had voted at the polls to toss out the absentee ballot. They have to somehow have a reference for who you are absentee precisely to know that your vote counts and that you did not, in fact, vote twice.

NCSL

This page provides 50-state information on access to voter lists. States have varied requirements on who is eligible to request a list of voters, what information the list contains, what information is kept confidential, and how information contained in voter lists may be used. Many states also have specific programs to keep all voter information confidential for certain classes of voters.

The availability of voter lists for campaign purposes is longstanding; candidates benefit from knowing who their party’s voters are. Statutes govern the details. Legislators who are interested in expanding or restricting access to voter information may want to consider the following questions

"Looting Is Good"

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch ... of-looting

What a load of "academic" crap.

Grifman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:44 am "Looting Is Good"

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch ... of-looting

What a load of "academic" crap.

It isn't even academic crap. It is just crap. She just wrapped it in pseudo-academic babble. This is morally and intellectually bankrupt hot garbage.

SC Senate voted to allow "any reason" vote by mail. Still has to get through the House and the governor's signature, but nice first step.

stessier wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:54 am SC Senate voted to allow "any reason" vote by mail. Still has to get through the House and the governor's signature, but nice first step.

Woah! Any idea on the likelihood of McMaster of signing that if it passes the House? In my short time here, he seems like a bit of a Trump toadie.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 9:06 am

stessier wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:54 am SC Senate voted to allow "any reason" vote by mail. Still has to get through the House and the governor's signature, but nice first step.

Woah! Any idea on the likelihood of McMaster of signing that if it passes the House? In my short time here, he seems like a bit of a Trump toadie.

I would guess yes. They allowed it in June for the primary. It would be a hard sell to say it was safe then and not now.

https://twitter.com/RapSheet/status/1301505376182054919

Ian Rapoport @RapSheet · 27s
Good stuff from the NFL and NFLPA: "All NFL, NFLPA and club facilities will be closed on Tuesday, November 3, to ensure that every member of the NFL family has an opportunity to exercise the precious right to vote."

We really need to work on making this a national holiday.

malchior wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 8:15 am

Grifman wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 12:44 am "Looting Is Good"

https://www.npr.org/sections/codeswitch ... of-looting

What a load of "academic" crap.

It isn't even academic crap. It is just crap. She just wrapped it in pseudo-academic babble. This is morally and intellectually bankrupt hot garbage.

It's a bunch of naive twaddle.

When I use the word looting, I mean the mass expropriation of property, mass shoplifting during a moment of upheaval or riot. That's the thing I'm defending. I'm not defending any situation in which property is stolen by force. It's not a home invasion either. It's about a certain kind of action that's taken during protests and riots.

Who's going to be enforcing the looting? When a truck full of heavily armed career criminals pulls up to Best Buy, who is going to tell them they their brand of looting isn't welcome?

And breaking into a storefront and stealing isn't "by force"? Intimidating shop owners is isn't force?

It also attacks the very way in which food and things are distributed. It attacks the idea of property, and it attacks the idea that in order for someone to have a roof over their head or have a meal ticket, they have to work for a boss, in order to buy things that people just like them somewhere else in the world had to make under the same conditions.

Food hasn't been targeted in the recent spate of looting. It's been luxury goods, consumer electronics, and high end apparel. Also alcohol and drugs (pharmacies and dispensaries).

And let's say looting becomes the new way of distribution of goods. Who is going to manufacturer and stock goods they won't get paid for. They can just loot what they want too, why go to all the trouble and unreimbursed expense? So then there's nothing to loot. No food, no $8,000 handbags.

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Sep 02, 2020 11:12 pm NCSL

This page provides 50-state information on access to voter lists. States have varied requirements on who is eligible to request a list of voters, what information the list contains, what information is kept confidential, and how information contained in voter lists may be used. Many states also have specific programs to keep all voter information confidential for certain classes of voters.

The availability of voter lists for campaign purposes is longstanding; candidates benefit from knowing who their party’s voters are. Statutes govern the details. Legislators who are interested in expanding or restricting access to voter information may want to consider the following questions

For example, my wife (a low-level local Democratic party official) recently finished a project of targeting postcards in particular neighborhoods to registered Democrats who did not vote in the recent primary.

Being in PA, her status as a Dem committeeperson meant that she could request her own copy of the lists. In many states they say that anyone can inspect the lists at the county courthouse or wherever, but I believe many of them are (by law) going online. The list my wife had was electronic.

He just doubled down on double voting on twitter. What he just suggested would cause chaos. Strange how that works. They really need to ban his twitter account.

Seriously. Between what he directed (is this really up for debate?) for the USPS and now telling people to vote twice, how can it be disputed that he's actively trying to inject chaos into election day? How could either not be seen as actively working against democracy?

But I guess he's just stiggin' it, right?

It's only illegal if the other side does it. I would be amused if a bunch of Trump supporters ended up in jail for voter fraud. I give it an hour before Twitter pulls those tweets down. This is going to be a super fun couple of months.

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:17 am Seriously. Between what he directed (is this really up for debate?) for the USPS

Not up for debate. They are lying about it. The Secretary of the VA said there were no prescription delays and it was a conspiracy theory. The administration is just lying to show it can lie.

...now telling people to vote twice, how can it be disputed that he's actively trying to inject chaos into election day? How could either not be seen as actively working against democracy?

We're in the paradox where everyone knows what he is doing but no one with the power to stop it is willing to step in. The media is divided how to report it and people believe in the tribal message they align to. The danger has never been more real.

Octavious wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:53 am He just doubled down on double voting on twitter. What he just suggested would cause chaos. Strange how that works. They really need to ban his twitter account.

We need to revive the time honored tradition of dragging disgraced individuals through the streets and hurling rotten fruits and vegetables at them.

stessier wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:41 am

Octavious wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 10:53 am He just doubled down on double voting on twitter. What he just suggested would cause chaos. Strange how that works. They really need to ban his twitter account.

We need to revive the time honored tradition of dragging disgraced individuals through the streets and hurling rotten fruits and vegetables at them.

Also acceptable: ride him out on a rail or the true colonial favorite -- tar and feather him. Those would all be lovely.

This is stoking mass outrage on the right. They say WaPo is calling for violence -- the projection is off the charts. It is a readout from the table top exercise some experts ran over the summer.

Edit: And if you think this is hyperbolic some of what they describe such as calls for violence from the right were only theoretical when this happened in early summer. That has already happened *before the election*.

https://twitter.com/washingtonpost/stat ... 4465158145

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Sep 03, 2020 11:17 am Seriously. Between what he directed (is this really up for debate?) for the USPS and now telling people to vote twice, how can it be disputed that he's actively trying to inject chaos into election day? How could either not be seen as actively working against democracy?

But I guess he's just stiggin' it, right?

In Tumpaolo world they call that Thursday.

And after voting for your second or third time follow it up with a celebratory shot of bleach! The Leader has spoken!

Parking this here since this was the main place DeJoy was talked about but get the fainting couch out. It looks like the question that upset DeJoy during his house testimony...it might have been less fishing and more a perjury trap. He should resign but won't. If Biden wins I hope he gets prosecuted. We need to send a clear message that bullshit like this gets you thrown in actual prison.

https://twitter.com/MrDanZak/status/1302694724378284038

I know my neighbors name. What other information would I need in order to submit a mail in ballot under the name of my neighbor?

Jaymon wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 10:19 am I know my neighbors name. What other information would I need in order to submit a mail in ballot under the name of my neighbor?

Votes are flagged for extra inspection or thrown out if the signature on the ballot doesn't match the signature on file.

This is all done by hand, which is why mail-ballots take longer to be counted.

Having their ballot would be pretty important too.

Alefroth wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:34 pm Having their ballot would be pretty important too.

Probably only works if they go on vacation (not likely in 2020) and you raid their mailbox at 3 AM. and the ballot is in there (and it's not locked). Pretty remote.

Jaymann wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 2:56 pm

Alefroth wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 12:34 pm Having their ballot would be pretty important too.

Probably only works if they go on vacation (not likely in 2020) and you raid their mailbox at 3 AM. and the ballot is in there (and it's not locked). Pretty remote.

In SC, you also need a witness to sign your ballot envelope before returning.

The signature issue can actually be a problem for young voters, whose signatures tend to be in flux.

I know mine didn't quite "settle" until I was in my 20s.

Because I was just considering, since I am in a mail in state, if I was going to muck with the ballots, sending in duplicate of my own would be stupid.
But sending in a duplicate of somebody else who was voting for the opposition, could potentially cause their vote to be thrown out.
I just don't know enough about ballot security to know how feasible that is, which is why I am asking. Not that I would do it, but it does not seem beyond the realm of trumpholes next move.

Holman wrote: Mon Sep 07, 2020 6:15 pm The signature issue can actually be a problem for young voters, whose signatures tend to be in flux.

I know mine didn't quite "settle" until I was in my 20s.

Requiring a signature match in general is stupid and pernicious. First, generally speaking poll managers are not handwriting / signature experts (and I think there's general disagreement about whether even 'experts' can reliably match signatures), so there's a high chance that people running polls will wind up disqualifying valid ballots if they actually attempt to match signatures. Second, it opens a big door for shenanigans - partisan poll workers can use it to intentionally disqualify valid ballots, and campaigns (to the extent that they get their act together) can use it to challenge a lot of ballots.

To the extent that a signature is just used to put someone's name on that election folks can follow up with if there's a question about ballot validity that's different, though I doubt that they would make use of that much.

When it comes right down to it, election integrity really comes down to the majority of people being law-abiding citizens. Trump can't comprehend the idea of just being a good person who doesn't feel the need to cheat to get ahead.

FWIW, I don't think it's a matter of a single individual judging a signature to be invalid (although it might be the case that a valid sig gets approved by just a single person). Troublesome sigs get flagged for inspection by others.

(Remember the hanging chads? There were whole tables full of election officials staring at individual votes.)

It's also the case (at least in PA) that the signatures are not on the ballot itself but on an inner envelope containing the ballot. The signature-inspectors can't see how a person voted before judging the sig.

Holman wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:39 am It's also the case (at least in PA) that the signatures are not on the ballot itself but on an inner envelope containing the ballot. The signature-inspectors can't see how a person voted before judging the sig.

No, but they can know who is winning before they start the absentee counting.

stessier wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 12:19 pm

Holman wrote: Tue Sep 08, 2020 11:39 am It's also the case (at least in PA) that the signatures are not on the ballot itself but on an inner envelope containing the ballot. The signature-inspectors can't see how a person voted before judging the sig.

No, but they can know who is winning before they start the absentee counting.

Yeah, and they can make guesses based on the area and where the ballots are coming from. This is also something where campaign shenanigans come into play, as one thing that the Trump campaign can do is just send an army of people into polling places in Philly, Detroit, Milwaukee, etc. to challenge essentially every ballot. At least slow things down, and hopefully disqualify a disproportionate number of Biden votes.

Nothing to see here. Just the President raising his own little army of "poll watchers".

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7723723776

Volunteer to be a Trump Election Poll Watcher. Sign up today! #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:10 pm

Volunteer to be a Trump Election Poll Watcher. Sign up today! #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

They've already got a pretty slick mock-up of the official badge they'll issue to volunteers.

Opportunity for Trump haters to flood the market!

Skinypupy wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 2:10 pm Nothing to see here. Just the President raising his own little army of "poll watchers".

https://twitter.com/realDonaldTrump/sta ... 7723723776

Volunteer to be a Trump Election Poll Watcher. Sign up today! #MakeAmericaGreatAgain

To be clear, campaigns normally have poll watchers that they send to polling places to supervise the voting and report back to the campaigns on any irregularities. I've been a poll watcher for the Clinton campaign in 2016 and for NH democrats in 2018 (and in 2016 there was also a Republican poll watcher as well). So it's totally valid for the Trump campaign to get volunteers to serve as poll watchers.

Which is not to say that the poll watchers won't engage in shenanigans.

El Guapo wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:22 pmI've been a poll watcher for the Clinton campaign in 2016 and for NH democrats in 2018.

Did you sign up at "armyforclinton.com" ... ?

It's a thing I didn't know about before. Given the mentality of Trump supporters, I worry that they'd feel like they were being empowered by the president to pressure people to vote their way or not at all.

Paingod wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:26 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:22 pmI've been a poll watcher for the Clinton campaign in 2016 and for NH democrats in 2018.

Did you sign up at "armyforclinton.com" ... ?

It's a thing I didn't know about before. Given the mentality of Trump supporters, I worry that they'd feel like they were being empowered by the president to pressure people to vote their way or not at all.

There are election laws that deal with that and as someone going through poll worker training, there is also training around how to react.

El Guapo wrote: Wed Sep 09, 2020 3:22 pm

Which is not to say that the poll watchers won't engage in shenanigans.

They won't engage in mere shenanigans. He's exhorting them to "fight for Trump." Neither he nor his followers understand the nuance of metaphor very well so I'd be ready for literal fighting and intimidation.