Octopus Overlords

coopasonic wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:53 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:51 pm What no Cruz, Graham, Paul, Blackburn, or Hagerty? Are those little hottie tottie noobies out revulsioning the old hats?

Senators don't generally vote in the house.

Or the House!

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 5:52 pm Cruz is a Senator.

So is Graham cracker.

China might be shifting as it's becoming clearer that Russia is losing and it's 'special operation' is out of control.

Is this where we play the Hitler meme video again?

Eastasia has always been our friend.

There is a corner of my mind thinking that Ukraine might just turn it around. If so, all Russia would have achieved is killing a bunch of innocents, destroying what was left of it's international reputation and goodwill, destroying its economy, strengthening its opponents, making NATO/EU/new alliance appear more and more appealing to the neutral countries, alienating its few allies, and making Putin look like a limp pickle.

The other corner of my mind thinks that this is when Putin gets desperate. He's already getting paranoid.

If China is really in the process of a shift here, that would be huge. In some ways, they can make or break this thing for Putin.

A little Twitter thread on Russia's choice of wooden planks for its military truck beds. I'm going to guess this design choice dates back to WW2, when it was assumed resupply was going to happen behind front lines, and therefore risk of injury to splinters flying from your truck was minimal. But in the 21st century, anyone can be a target.

Ukrainian officials estimate the number of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine to be over 13,500, while Russian figures downplay the total to only 498. U.S. estimates combine these different numbers with satellite images and estimates based on intelligence data and set that number to 7,000.

As usual, truth (to be fair, ESTIMATES) is probably in the middle somewhere.

Kurth wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:35 am If China is really in the process of a shift here, that would be huge. In some ways, they can make or break this thing for Putin.

They appear to be trying to walk a very fine line here. They are showing more anti-Russian war information possibly to be able to prepare the ground if they do feel a need to get more involved. There are also some recent accounts that they are applying pressure to the EU saying essentially - "you've lost Russia and you can't afford to lose us". It seems reasonable that the responses that talk about the reality that China has trouble if the world fragments further and Russia is driving economic fragmentation.

MTG's comments on Ukraine have put her in the crosshairs of Anonymous.

Eh. This is pretty meaningless. They're essentially mocking her. Like anyone else could.

Is this encouraging someone to hack her? Maybe but that'd still be a crime against a Congressperson potentially. And that'd be highly counterproductive. Plus, there is little chance there is any smoking gun for them to find. I estimate they'd just find gross selfies and dumb texts than anything.

Yeah. I’m not sure about MTG having any significant ‘dirt’.

However, here is a question. Do ya think Tucker has actual Russian ties? Feels like it. Do you think they could find a smoking gun there ?


I honestly don’t know how these people support Russia so readily in this moment. Other than the ‘all in’ aspect on a failed hand.
Or payroll.

Anonymous cares about criminal risk?

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:24 am Anonymous cares about criminal risk?

Not at all. It's more a comment that we shouldn't be cheering the possibility on.

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:24 amHowever, here is a question. Do ya think Tucker has actual Russian ties? Feels like it.

It's possible.

Do you think they could find a smoking gun there ?

No. People who were literally handing secrets to the Soviet Union and other foreign nations often had to be caught in the act. Evidence isn't usually just lying around of this type of stuff.

I honestly don’t know how these people support Russia so readily in this moment. Other than the ‘all in’ aspect on a failed hand.
Or payroll.

Potentially kompromat. But it's also very likely they just actually align with Putin's values. Or it's the financial gain because there is an audience for this. Or a combination of several factors. In any case, the way I look at it is that there isn't any scenario where Tucker Carlson is anything but a bad person. He is taking positions that actively hurt people. Intentionally. He is doing those bad things for bad reasons.

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:24 am
I honestly don’t know how these people support Russia so readily in this moment. Other than the ‘all in’ aspect on a failed hand.
Or payroll.

Well, there are a few things driving support for Putin among the far right crowd: (1) for white nationalists and the like, Putin is a white christian who is willing to defend the christian world against immigrant mobs; (2) if you believe a bunch of far right conspiracy theories (and she certainly does) then the Democratic Party is the prime evil in the world today, hence if Putin and democrats are opposed to each other then it makes sense to side with Putin; (3) if you want to roll back the New Deal or civil rights protections of any type, then autocracy becomes an attractive model.

So support for Putin =/ being on the payroll. I think Tucker's more likely to have some actual relationship with the Russian government given that I don't think he actually believes the insane shit being peddled on the right - seems more craven and transactional.

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:56 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 17, 2022 3:53 pm The focus of the blast has to be precise for the energy to punch a hole and get inside. If you can force it to go off early - by, say, hitting a thin sheet of material a few inches away from the actual armor - it's not properly focused when it hits the actual armor, and just disperses across the surface. It's why some vehicles have thin metal a few inches away from their actual armor. Alternately, some tanks are actually covered in small explosives that detonate outward just as a round hits them. It disrupts the focus of the explosion (this armor looks like tons of tiny boxes all over the outside of the tank.)

And this is also what slat armor (such as a cage mounted a foot or so off the side of a vehicle) is for. The idea is to trick the warhead into discharging the initial blast early so that the follow-on energy isn't channeled through a small penetration into the interior but instead spreads out across the actual side armor.

This is also why you see those cages on the top of Russian tanks, to try and defend against top attack missiles. However, just as every measure provokes a countermeasure, so does every countermeasure provoke another countermeasure. Some newer AT missiles have a sub charge which fires first in order to punch a hole in slats/cage or to trigger the reactive armor or APS, leaving the main charge to penetrate.

And all the countermeasures in the world don't help against bad tactics. To wit, driving a tank down the middle of a wide street in an urban areas without the requisite infantry security force. A lot of military folks have been marveling at the situation.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:47 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:24 am
I honestly don’t know how these people support Russia so readily in this moment. Other than the ‘all in’ aspect on a failed hand.
Or payroll.

Well, there are a few things driving support for Putin among the far right crowd: (1) for white nationalists and the like, Putin is a white christian who is willing to defend the christian world against immigrant mobs; (2) if you believe a bunch of far right conspiracy theories (and she certainly does) then the Democratic Party is the prime evil in the world today, hence if Putin and democrats are opposed to each other then it makes sense to side with Putin; (3) if you want to roll back the New Deal or civil rights protections of any type, then autocracy becomes an attractive model.

(1) is problematic, I would think - because they are killing white christians.
(2) if that's where the GOP is headed, then Russia has literally taken over 40% of America already. that would be really sad.
(3) they certainly seem to like that idea for sure.


I guess I just feel like these people (Tucker, MTG, etc) should be (I would seriously like to think!!) more concerned that they will alienate Americans with this rhetoric. The idea that they aren't is just chilling me to the core.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:47 amSo support for Putin =/ being on the payroll.

!= is how we say that programatically

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:29 am And all the countermeasures in the world don't help against bad tactics. To wit, driving a tank down the middle of a wide street in an urban areas without the requisite infantry security force. A lot of military folks have been marveling at the situation.

On a smaller scale, it reminds me of the video that was shared at least a week ago, of a lone Russian soldier trying to break into a TECHNO store, banging on the door without effect... It struck me, watching that video - how totally stupid and vulnerable he was being. If it wasn't a TikTokker in that window filming him and instead was an armed Ukrainian - he'd have been killed, easily.

I admittedly have not followed Russia at all before this, but does Putin really claim to be a Christian?

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:56 am I admittedly have not followed Russia at all before this, but does Putin really claim to be a Christian?

Is that surprising? Heard of the Russian Orthodox Church?

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:31 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:47 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:24 am
I honestly don’t know how these people support Russia so readily in this moment. Other than the ‘all in’ aspect on a failed hand.
Or payroll.

Well, there are a few things driving support for Putin among the far right crowd: (1) for white nationalists and the like, Putin is a white christian who is willing to defend the christian world against immigrant mobs; (2) if you believe a bunch of far right conspiracy theories (and she certainly does) then the Democratic Party is the prime evil in the world today, hence if Putin and democrats are opposed to each other then it makes sense to side with Putin; (3) if you want to roll back the New Deal or civil rights protections of any type, then autocracy becomes an attractive model.

(1) is problematic, I would think - because they are killing white christians.
(2) if that's where the GOP is headed, then Russia has literally taken over 40% of America already. that would be really sad.
(3) they certainly seem to like that idea for sure.


I guess I just feel like these people (Tucker, MTG, etc) should be (I would seriously like to think!!) more concerned that they will alienate Americans with this rhetoric. The idea that they aren't is just chilling me to the core.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:47 amSo support for Putin =/ being on the payroll.

!= is how we say that programatically

It's the FAR FAR right that still support Putin. My FAR right friends and family denounce him and this war. I don't know exactly where this line is, or if it's drifting more to the center, but for now, it's a very extreme position.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:58 am

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:56 am I admittedly have not followed Russia at all before this, but does Putin really claim to be a Christian?

Is that surprising? Heard of the Russian Orthodox Church?

Yes, but I'd imagine Putin more in the framework of "religion is for little people" and it's not like it factors into his elections.

Archinerd wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:59 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:31 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:47 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:24 am
I honestly don’t know how these people support Russia so readily in this moment. Other than the ‘all in’ aspect on a failed hand.
Or payroll.

Well, there are a few things driving support for Putin among the far right crowd: (1) for white nationalists and the like, Putin is a white christian who is willing to defend the christian world against immigrant mobs; (2) if you believe a bunch of far right conspiracy theories (and she certainly does) then the Democratic Party is the prime evil in the world today, hence if Putin and democrats are opposed to each other then it makes sense to side with Putin; (3) if you want to roll back the New Deal or civil rights protections of any type, then autocracy becomes an attractive model.

(1) is problematic, I would think - because they are killing white christians.
(2) if that's where the GOP is headed, then Russia has literally taken over 40% of America already. that would be really sad.
(3) they certainly seem to like that idea for sure.


I guess I just feel like these people (Tucker, MTG, etc) should be (I would seriously like to think!!) more concerned that they will alienate Americans with this rhetoric. The idea that they aren't is just chilling me to the core.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:47 amSo support for Putin =/ being on the payroll.

!= is how we say that programatically

It's the FAR FAR right that still support Putin. My FAR right friends and family denounce him and this war. I don't know exactly where this line is, or if it's drifting more to the center, but for now, it's a very extreme position.

Yeah, we're definitely not at the point where 40%+ of the electorate supports Putin. At the same time I think this is more in the GOP bloodstream than "far far right" would lead you to think, mainly because Trump (the de facto leader of the party) is pro-Putin. There's already a fair amount of anti-anti-Putinism in the party, and that's going to become part of the price of admission to the party if Trump gets elected in 2024.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:00 am There is a corner of my mind thinking that Ukraine might just turn it around. If so, all Russia would have achieved is killing a bunch of innocents, destroying what was left of it's international reputation and goodwill, destroying its economy, strengthening its opponents, making NATO/EU/new alliance appear more and more appealing to the neutral countries, alienating its few allies, and making Putin look like a limp pickle.

The other corner of my mind thinks that this is when Putin gets desperate. He's already getting paranoid.

Exactly. TBH, those are the same corners of the mind - think how bad Trump is when he thinks he's being labeled a "loser"...

Archinerd wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:59 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:31 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:47 am

Unagi wrote:I honestly don’t know how these people support Russia so readily in this moment. Other than the ‘all in’ aspect on a failed hand.
Or payroll

(2) if you believe a bunch of far right conspiracy theories (and she certainly does) then the Democratic Party is the prime evil in the world today, hence if Putin and democrats are opposed to each other then it makes sense to side with Putin

(2) if that's where the GOP is headed, then Russia has literally taken over 40% of America already. that would be really sad.

It's the FAR FAR right that still support Putin. My FAR right friends and family denounce him and this war. I don't know exactly where this line is, or if it's drifting more to the center, but for now, it's a very extreme position.

But it's very early yet. As this goes on, and the Democratic Party is the one that is supporting Ukraine, it's going to be very hard for them (because they have been heavily trained otherwise) to "agree with the Dems" on this. They (all?) see that as a failure. It's a zero-sum game to them. It's absurd that Tucker and MGT would feel safe making these comments, yet they do feel safe. They are inching the party forward and into full-on Russian support. It will be very interesting to see where people draw a line. You'd think the old crowd watching FOX NEW would be the least likely to feel OK with this Russia Love.

Honestly - if the Democratic Party was in place to defend Earth against an alien invasion - there would be a real chance the GOP would weigh their options and maybe side with the aliens. No exageration.

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:10 am

Archinerd wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:59 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:31 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 9:47 am

Unagi wrote:I honestly don’t know how these people support Russia so readily in this moment. Other than the ‘all in’ aspect on a failed hand.
Or payroll

(2) if you believe a bunch of far right conspiracy theories (and she certainly does) then the Democratic Party is the prime evil in the world today, hence if Putin and democrats are opposed to each other then it makes sense to side with Putin

(2) if that's where the GOP is headed, then Russia has literally taken over 40% of America already. that would be really sad.

It's the FAR FAR right that still support Putin. My FAR right friends and family denounce him and this war. I don't know exactly where this line is, or if it's drifting more to the center, but for now, it's a very extreme position.

But it's very early yet. As this goes on, and the Democratic Party is the one that is supporting Ukraine, it's going to be very hard for them (because they have been heavily trained otherwise) to "agree with the Dems" on this. They (all?) see that as a failure. It's a zero-sum game to them. It's absurd that Tucker and MGT would feel safe making these comments, yet they do feel safe. They are inching the party forward and into full-on Russian support. It will be very interesting to see where people draw a line. You'd think the old crowd watching FOX NEW would be the least likely to feel OK with this Russia Love.

Honestly - if the Democratic Party was in place to defend Earth against an alien invasion - there would be a real chance the GOP would weigh their options and maybe side with the aliens. No exageration.

For sure, and I agree we have a lot to worry about. "but for now" does a lot of lifting in my sentence.

Honestly - if the Democratic Party was in place to defend Earth against an alien invasion - there would be a real chance the GOP would weigh their options and maybe side with the aliens. No exageration.
Top

What do you mean maybe?

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 11:00 am

coopasonic wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:58 am

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 10:56 am I admittedly have not followed Russia at all before this, but does Putin really claim to be a Christian?

Is that surprising? Heard of the Russian Orthodox Church?

Yes, but I'd imagine Putin more in the framework of "religion is for little people" and it's not like it factors into his elections.

Putin seems to see religion as a useful political tool, as do many other politicians (e.g. Trump).

How Putin Uses Russian Orthodoxy to Grow His Empire

Key Takeaways

1. Putin often invokes the Russian Orthodox Church in his public speeches, giving the church a much more prominent place in Russian political life.
2. Putin has set himself up as a defender of traditional morality—for instance, by opposing homosexuality, penalizing divorce, and supporting the “traditional family.”
3. Putin’s use of traditional Christianity is calculated for political effect. American and European observers would do well to see through the charade.

When Vladimir Putin rose to the presidency of Russia in 2000, he inherited the remains of a once-fearsome communist-atheist imperial state.

In the intervening 19 years, he has transformed Russia back into an imperial power with global ambitions. One of his key tools in that transformation has been the Russian Orthodox Church.

Putin often invokes the Russian Orthodox Church in his public speeches, giving the church a much more prominent place in Russian political life than under his predecessors. But these invocations hardly seem sincere in the religious sense. Rather, he has used the church to justify Russian expansion and to try to discredit the West’s influence in Eastern Europe.

Putin seems to see religion as a useful political tool, as do many other politicians (e.g. Trump).

I remember Trump with his upsidedown bible in his photoshoot. All he needed was an upsidedown cross in his other hand.

As mentioned upthread, I think it's probably a lot more likely that
1. The idea of "a" Putin lines right up with their values, and
2. trying to boost ratings and/or press, depending on which far right wing nutjob you're talking about.

Probably very little actual kompromat or direct dealings with Russian operatives (Trump himself is a different matter). But who really knows.

However, things we know:
MTG and Tucker are attention whores.
The patriarchal, white, strongman, nationalist figure appeals to both of them (unless Tucker is COMPLETELY just playing a role on his show, which would not surprise me at all).

They all but say "I WISH WE HAD AN AUTOCRACY HERE RATHER THAN THE MESS WE HAVE"

Heres some Russian soldiers under ambush attack. Im not sure how this video got out.

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:51 am Ukrainian officials estimate the number of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine to be over 13,500, while Russian figures downplay the total to only 498. U.S. estimates combine these different numbers with satellite images and estimates based on intelligence data and set that number to 7,000.

As usual, truth (to be fair, ESTIMATES) is probably in the middle somewhere.

Which is about half what they lost in Afghanistan over 10 years.

Estimates of 14K-21K wounded Russian troops. Even the low number is 10% of their force. That's enough to reduce the effectiveness of any unit.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 12:24 pm Heres some Russian soldiers under ambush attack. Im not sure how this video got out.

Apparently the Russians don't have their secure comms systems up and running reliably, so they've been using Ukrainian cellular infrastructure. If that's the case, the UA (and anyone else who is tapped into the UA infrastructure) would have access to anything they transmit.

They're the Keystone Kops of opsec.

Lviv now under attack.

Four of six cruise missiles hit targets.

https://www.npr.org/live-updates/ukrain ... 03-18-2022

Alefroth wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 1:57 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Fri Mar 18, 2022 7:51 am Ukrainian officials estimate the number of Russian soldiers killed in Ukraine to be over 13,500, while Russian figures downplay the total to only 498. U.S. estimates combine these different numbers with satellite images and estimates based on intelligence data and set that number to 7,000.

As usual, truth (to be fair, ESTIMATES) is probably in the middle somewhere.

Which is about half what they lost in Afghanistan over 10 years.

Estimates of 14K-21K wounded Russian troops. Even the low number is 10% of their force.

Decimated!

Heres a new HQ audio video for that catchy Ukraine song Bayraktar . Bayraktar is the Turkish drone the Ukraine uses to pummel Russian assets.