tesla motors

[Isgrimnur]

Reuters

A 2016 video that Tesla (TSLA.O) used to promote its self-driving technology was staged to show capabilities like stopping at a red light and accelerating at a green light that the system did not have, according to testimony by a senior engineer.
...
But the Model X was not driving itself with technology Tesla had deployed, Ashok Elluswamy, director of Autopilot software at Tesla, said in the transcript of a July deposition taken as evidence in a lawsuit against Tesla for a 2018 fatal crash involving a former Apple (AAPL.O) engineer.
...
To create the video, the Tesla used 3D mapping on a predetermined route from a house in Menlo Park, California, to Tesla’s then-headquarters in Palo Alto, he said.

Drivers intervened to take control in test runs, he said. When trying to show the Model X could park itself with no driver, a test car crashed into a fence in Tesla’s parking lot, he said.

“The intent of the video was not to accurately portray what was available for customers in 2016. It was to portray what was possible to build into the system,” Elluswamy said, according to a transcript of his testimony seen by Reuters.

When Tesla released the video, Musk tweeted, “Tesla drives itself (no human input at all) thru urban streets to highway to streets, then finds a parking spot.”

[malchior]

Huh. It's almost like Musk is at the heart of things a no good grifter.

[Zaxxon]

Huh. It's almost like Musk is at the heart of things a no good grifter.

He's done little to dispute that view lately.

[LawBeefaroni]

Huh. It's almost like Musk is at the heart of things a no good grifter.

He's done little to dispute that view lately.

He's done little to dispute that for that last 5 years. At least.

[malchior]

Days since last batshit Musk Tweet storm? Back to 0. He had a totally normal day. This was amongst a few unhinged conspiracy theory adjacent Tweets today.

[pr0ner]

Tesla told shareholders that the company is now under Department of Justice investigation over its autopilot and full self driving features.

[Zaxxon]

Hey, remember that April, 2021 Texas crash that garnered all sorts of press coverage about how no one was in the driver's seat, and Tesla Autopilot OMG TEH DANGERS!!!1111!!!?

I'm kind of over this sort of press coverage, though. No one knows that AP was enabled (the only ones that could are dead or Tesla, who hasn't commented), and the circumstances make it highly unlikely that it was. It wouldn't normally engage at all on a street like this, and definitely wouldn't have accelerated to the speed that this crash seems to indicate.

In any event, this is why we can't have nice things.

The preliminary NTSB report in October of 2021 had already suggested that this was entirely on the driver, but the final report wasn't released until yesterday. As anyone with more than a passing familiarity with a Tesla knew at the time, the driver was in the driver's seat and Autopilot was not involved.

[LordMortis]

https://www.cnbc.com/2023/02/16/tesla-f ... leges.html

Dozens of employees at a Tesla

factory in upstate New York have been fired just days after launching a union campaign, organizers alleged Thursday.

In a complaint with the National Labor Relations Board, Workers United said Tesla fired more than 30 workers from its Autopilot unit at a Buffalo plant as a retaliatory measure and to discourage union activity. The union urged the NLRB for injunctive relief “to prevent irreparable destruction of employee rights resulting from Tesla’s unlawful conduct.”

Employees at the Buffalo facility on Tuesday launched organizing efforts under the union Tesla Workers United. Workers said they’re seeking a voice in the workplace, along with better pay and job security.

[malchior]

Sorry to throw down some R&P action (and happy to take it elsewhere if needed) - this is why they did break the law so brazenly and why they will ultimately get away with it.

Tesla and CEO Elon Musk have clashed with union proponents for years. In 2017, Tesla fired a union activist named Richard Ortiz, and in 2018, Musk tweeted a comment found to have violated federal labor laws. The NLRB ordered Tesla to reinstate Ortiz and to have Musk delete his tweet, which it said threatened workers’ compensation. Tesla has appealed the administrative court’s ruling and his tweet remains.

The NLRB ordered them to delete a Tweet and re-hire him in an order dated in 2019 from an administrative judge. Tesla appealed that to the full NLRB board. The order was upheld. They appealed to the courts and it's now at ... checks notes ... 5th circuit and the next hearing pending another requested delay is in April. Justice delayed and all that.

Link to the absurdly long history here

[Hrothgar]

Is there some sort of sale on white Teslas? I've seen bunch of new white Teslas on the road this week with temporary tags. I've also seen a Rivian and a Mustang Mach e, but those are one offs unlike the Tesla surge.

[Zaxxon]

Is there some sort of sale on white Teslas? I've seen bunch of new white Teslas on the road this week with temporary tags. I've also seen a Rivian and a Mustang Mach e, but those are one offs unlike the Tesla surge.

White is a free color choice, so there tend to be a disproportionate number.

[JCC]

Tesla has been lowering (and raising) prices like crazy lately.

[Zaxxon]

Company line on the Buffalo firings: https://www.tesla.com/blog/in-response- ... llegations

There is a false allegation that Tesla terminated employees in response to a new union campaign. These are the facts behind the event:

Tesla conducts performance review cycles every six months. Employees receive a performance rating from 1 to 5 in each cycle that helps them calibrate their work with the expectations of their job. In the worst case, if an employee fails to meet their performance expectations they will be let go.
This review process takes place globally, including in North America, Europe, China, etc. It is not localized to Buffalo.
The most recent performance review cycle was from July 2022 through December 2022. On December 13th, 2022, managers across the company received a communication regarding the review schedule. This included information noting that exits for low performers would start the week of February 12, 2023.
Approximately 4% of the employees on the Autopilot labeling team in Buffalo were exited as a result of this performance review cycle. The employees let go as part of this process received prior feedback on their poor performance from their managers over the course of the review period. Despite feedback, they did not demonstrate sufficient improvement.
The impacted employees were identified on February 3, 2023, which was well before the union campaign was announced. We became aware of organizing activities approximately 10 days later. We learned in hindsight that one out of the 27 impacted employees officially identified as part of the union campaign. This exercise pre-dated any union campaign.
The labeling team in Buffalo, NY has been growing over the last several months at an average rate of around 10 employees a week. Over the last 6 months, the department's employee base has grown 54%, from 437 employees to 675 employees as of the beginning of this week.
The reason there is time monitoring for image labeling is to improve the ease of use of our labeling software. Since its purpose is to calculate how long it takes to label and image, there is nothing to be gained by delaying bathroom breaks. The claim that Tesla pressures employees to do so is categorically false.


Our employees in Buffalo are core to our mission of accelerating the world’s transition to sustainable energy, helping to build Superchargers, Solar Roof and power electronics for many applications.

[malchior]

One could read between the lines several narratives that fit the union's or Tesla's story on this. For example, the time tracking story has some natural questions. Understanding how long it takes people to label images is useful for multiple purposes: improving the usability of the software, figuring out how many folks you need to do the work, and potentially collected for performance management. If people were being shown their performance scores based on time tracking (and potentially number of images labeled) then it isn't hard to believe folks started skipping bathroom breaks to not fall behind. Metrics drive behaviors.

That's speculation for sure but ultimately it comes down to the idea that Musk has systematically undercut Tesla's image. Especially all the blowback from his Twitter misadventures. They have been accused of union busting in the past on top. I guess we'll see after the 5-6 years it takes for one of these cases to work through the process.

[Zaxxon]

Musk has systematically undercut Tesla's image.

[Zaxxon]

Dropping this condensed supercut from yesterday's presentation here. 28 minutes, and can be watched at 1.25 or 1.5x easily.



I thought there was a lot of good stuff discussed, especially in the 2nd half (first half is an overview of electrifying everything everywhere all at once).

As a bonus, it's light on Musk and relatively heavier on other execs.

[malchior]

Another Tesla investigation

The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) said Wednesday it is opening a preliminary investigation into 120,000 2023 Tesla Model Y vehicles after two reports of steering wheels falling off while driving.

The U.S. auto safety regulator said the steering wheels in both vehicles, which had a low mileage, completely detached. The vehicles were delivered to owners missing the retaining bolt that attaches the steering wheel to the steering column.

[Jeff V]

But the cars were delivered with 99.99% of their parts, right? After all, if a baseball player had that sort of average, he'd be the most awesome player ever, right?

[Max Peck]

Tesla, now with free ride-sharing.

B.C. man says he accidentally unlocked and drove someone else’s Tesla using the app

A Vancouver man is trying to figure out how he managed to get into someone else’s Tesla recently and drive off, using the app on his own phone.

Rajesh Randev, an immigration consultant, said he thought he was getting into his Tesla on Tuesday as the car was the same make and the same colour.

Randev said he opened the door with his app, got in and even drove off.

It wasn’t until he was driving that he realized something wasn’t quite right.

“Apparently I found some glitch,” Randev said.

When he went to pick up the car, there were two Teslas parked side by side, he explained. He said he was in a hurry as he had to pick up his children from school so he thought he unlocked and jumped into his car.

“I was able to get access, a hold of that person’s car but while I start driving it, I realized there was a crack on the windshield,” he said.

So he called his wife to ask why and she did not know. He also noticed his charger was not where he usually had it.

“After, five, 10 minutes I got a text on my phone that said ‘Rajesh are you driving Tesla?'”

He said the person who messaged him told him he was driving the wrong Tesla.

It was only after he parked that Randev noticed the wheels were different from his car. He then called the person who messaged him and they realized he had taken the other person’s Tesla.

However, he was able to get in the car again, drive it again and pick up his children from school and the two met up to set things right.

[Exodor]

Tesla workers shared customer camera images internally

between 2019 and 2022, groups of Tesla employees privately shared via an internal messaging system sometimes highly invasive videos and images recorded by customers’ car cameras, according to interviews by Reuters with nine former employees.

Tesla states in its online “Customer Privacy Notice” that its “camera recordings remain anonymous and are not linked to you or your vehicle.” But seven former employees told Reuters the computer program they used at work could show the location of recordings – which potentially could reveal where a Tesla owner lived.

One ex-employee also said that some recordings appeared to have been made when cars were parked and turned off. Several years ago, Tesla would receive video recordings from its vehicles even when they were off, if owners gave consent. It has since stopped doing so.

“We could see inside people's garages and their private properties,” said another former employee. “Let's say that a Tesla customer had something in their garage that was distinctive, you know, people would post those kinds of things.”

I don't know how anyone can support this company.

[malchior]

I just read that story. I'm aghast and frankly the government needs to investigate them. We were told they could not see images from our vehicles. They lied to us. They have violated our privacy. And I won't be surprised to find out they violated the law in states with strong privacy laws like Massachusetts.

[Zaxxon]

I just read that story. I'm aghast and frankly the government needs to investigate them. We were told they could not see images from our vehicles. They lied to us. They have violated privacy. And I won't be surprised they violated the law in states with privacy laws like Massachusetts.

Massachusetts? How about Europe?

[malchior]

I just read that story. I'm aghast and frankly the government needs to investigate them. We were told they could not see images from our vehicles. They lied to us. They have violated privacy. And I won't be surprised they violated the law in states with privacy laws like Massachusetts.

Massachusetts? How about Europe?

Yeah this is a massive GDPR issue potentially. Frankly this is going to potentially be a huge problem for them overall. I just sent a note to my financial advisor reiterating that Tesla is not to be in my portfolio.

In any case, I am outraged right now. I don't even want to tell my wife about this. She was concerned about the cameras. I thought that something like this was never going to happen because the risks made them spying a no-brainer. But apparently this is a company that has SEVERE problems.

I like the car alot but this gives me a lot to think about. At this point I will never buy another Tesla as long as Elon Musk is in charge. The Tesla board needs to step up and figure out something because Tesla is out of control. It is like it is being run by the goddamn Tri-Lambs.

Edit: I'm actually in the middle of drafting a note that I will be sharing with my representatives in Congress. I'm really, really pissed about this.

[Zaxxon]

In any case, I am outraged right now. I don't even want to tell my wife about this. She was concerned about the cameras. I thought that something like this was never going to happen because the risks made them spying a no-brainer.

After reading the story more closely, I'm less outraged than you are (though I am mildly annoyed). Certainly some of the comments are troubling, but I initially read this as *all* cars' data. That's not the case. This is data from vehicles whose owners had opted into video sharing. Obviously that's not a carte-blanche to do whatever with the data and it doesn't make the internal sharing OK, but it's a huge caveat that's somewhat buried in the reporting.

Second, there's legit need for Tesla to view some of the data, and to share it internally (that's why they ask folks to share in the first place). So the practice itself isn't a problem--anyone opting into the data sharing should be OK with this in concept, or they shouldn't be opting in.

That said, obviously the fact that employees could easily tie the clips to mapping data is a big problem, as is the wanton internal sharing described by some ex-employees. It's similar in concept to what we've seen come out of Twitter (pre-Musk!), Facebook, Ring, Nest et al where private data is (or has been in the past) far less private than it should be to employees of those companies.

Hopefully enough trouble comes to Tesla from this story that internal controls are improved and some subset of employees are canned.

Bottom line to me is that we probably shouldn't be opting into video sharing.

In other news, another round of price cuts finally has things getting closer to pre-pandemic pricing.

[Zaxxon]

The Tesla board needs to step up

Side note: I noticed in the proxy materials filed last night that JB Straubel has been nominated to join the board this year. I think that'd be a positive.

[Jaymann]

Bad news and bad business.

[malchior]

In any case, I am outraged right now. I don't even want to tell my wife about this. She was concerned about the cameras. I thought that something like this was never going to happen because the risks made them spying a no-brainer.

After reading the story more closely, I'm less outraged than you are (though I am mildly annoyed). Certainly some of the comments are troubling, but I initially read this as *all* cars' data. That's not the case. This is data from vehicles whose owners had opted into video sharing. Obviously that's not a carte-blanche to do whatever with the data and it doesn't make the internal sharing OK, but it's a huge caveat that's somewhat buried in the reporting.

That doesn't matter to me honestly. Why should we believe they are trustworthy or are actually stopping at the opt-in? Especially considering the instances of bad behavior that keep cropping up at Tesla. This is a company with a fairly ugly corporate culture and a utter POS running it. Tesla has a pretty significant Elon Musk problem.

Second, there's legit need for Tesla to view some of the data, and to share it internally (that's why they ask folks to share in the first place). So the practice itself isn't a problem--anyone opting into the data sharing should be OK with this in concept, or they shouldn't be opting in.

That's not how privacy works though. You opt in for specific purposes. Not for them to run videos around the office. What they did should be explicitly illegal (and might be in some places).

Hopefully enough trouble comes to Tesla from this story that internal controls are improved and some subset of employees are canned.

You'd hope but again I don't trust Elon Musk. At all. Especially considering his recent adventures. Where I'm coming from is that in my professional experience when you see these sorts of problems crop up it is because it is allowed/tolerated. It is often rampant. And there are almost certainly not even close to the controls required. Do we think Musk is going to add on overhead to his company to deal with this beyond lip service and actually stamp it out? I have strong doubts but we'll see.

Bottom line to me is that we probably shouldn't be opting into video sharing.

And we also shouldn't hope they don't just do it anyway unfortunately.

In other news, another round of price cuts finally has things getting closer to pre-pandemic pricing.

The interesting thing here is whether other manufacturers see prices normalizing. If they don't, then we'll have to assume that Tesla is giving up margin because Musk has chased away his customer base. Too early to tell but the polling indicates that is a risk to some extent.

[Zaxxon]

Second, there's legit need for Tesla to view some of the data, and to share it internally

That's not how privacy works though. You opt in for specific purposes. Not for them to run videos around the office.

I'm talking about that specific purpose--I'm referring to sharing within the teams that need it, not the willy-nilly for the lols activity.

Do we think Musk is going to add on overhead to his company to deal with this beyond lip service and actually stamp it out? I have strong doubts but we'll see.

I don't think Musk will, no. But I do think some other execs will. It's a huge black eye, and comes with enormous potential costs if it continues. Contrary to popular belief, Musk is not the only exec at Tesla. The one blessing of the Twitter fiasco has been that Musk is much less visible at Tesla.

In other news, another round of price cuts finally has things getting closer to pre-pandemic pricing.

The interesting thing here is whether other manufacturers see prices normalizing. If they don't, then we'll have to assume that Tesla is giving up margin because Musk has chased away his customer base. Too early to tell but the polling indicates that is a risk to some extent.

Absolutely giving up margin, as was always going to be the case in order to continue expanding at the rate they're targeting. But again, we're not even back to pre-pandemic pricing, and internal COGS have dropped considerably since then. They have the margin to give, so long as it allows them to continue growing.

As for chasing away his customer base, it's definitely a concern, but hasn't yet played out in the data. Tesla's still at the high end of brand loyalty, and at least anecdotally in my neck of the woods, people are still buying Teslas even where they disagree with Musk's antics. At the end of the day, people making purchases of this size are generally going to pick the best product.

This is the opening for everyone who thinks the other EVs are catching up to chime in.

[coopasonic]

In other news, another round of price cuts finally has things getting closer to pre-pandemic pricing.

The interesting thing here is whether other manufacturers see prices normalizing. If they don't, then we'll have to assume that Tesla is giving up margin because Musk has chased away his customer base. Too early to tell but the polling indicates that is a risk to some extent.

The number of Teslas owned by folks in my department has more than doubled so far this year, mostly in spite of Musk's antics.

[coopasonic]

This is the opening for everyone who thinks the other EVs are catching up to chime in.

I am def checking out other brands when the time comes (Hyundai and Kia are top of the list), but I still love my nearly 5 year old model 3.

[Zaxxon]

In other news, another round of price cuts finally has things getting closer to pre-pandemic pricing.

The interesting thing here is whether other manufacturers see prices normalizing. If they don't, then we'll have to assume that Tesla is giving up margin because Musk has chased away his customer base. Too early to tell but the polling indicates that is a risk to some extent.

The number of Teslas owned by folks in my department has more than doubled so far this year, mostly in spite of Musk's antics.

Similar situation here. More folks I know directly bought a Tesla this year than in any previous period. I absolutely share malchior's concern, and Musk's antics disgust me. I'm just not seeing in the real world the impact that social media insists is there.

[Isgrimnur]

In other news, another round of price cuts finally has things getting closer to pre-pandemic pricing.

The interesting thing here is whether other manufacturers see prices normalizing. If they don't, then we'll have to assume that Tesla is giving up margin because Musk has chased away his customer base. Too early to tell but the polling indicates that is a risk to some extent.

The number of Teslas owned by folks in my department has more than doubled so far this year, mostly in spite of Musk's antics.

It's Texas. Are you sure it's "in spite of Musk's antics"?

[Zaxxon]

In other news, another round of price cuts finally has things getting closer to pre-pandemic pricing.

The interesting thing here is whether other manufacturers see prices normalizing. If they don't, then we'll have to assume that Tesla is giving up margin because Musk has chased away his customer base. Too early to tell but the polling indicates that is a risk to some extent.

The number of Teslas owned by folks in my department has more than doubled so far this year, mostly in spite of Musk's antics.

It's Texas. Are you sure it's "in spite of Musk's antics"?

It certainly is here in my neck of the woods.

[stessier]

.

This is the opening for everyone who thinks the other EVs are catching up to chime in.

I mean, you could spend 10k less on a car that isn't the best at spying on you, but to each their own.

[Zaxxon]

In less shitty news, I was going to share this earlier this week when it came out, but wanted to first see what folks in this space not affiliated with Tesla thought. I've been following Auke Hoekstra for a long time, so was happy to see that he thinks this is realistic (even with the tweet typo).





The source PDF is here. Worth reading a few times in full.

[Zaxxon]

.

This is the opening for everyone who thinks the other EVs are catching up to chime in.

I mean, you could spend 10k less on a car that isn't the best at spying on you, but to each their own.

This is the sort of deep analysis that I see all over social media.

[coopasonic]

In other news, another round of price cuts finally has things getting closer to pre-pandemic pricing.

The interesting thing here is whether other manufacturers see prices normalizing. If they don't, then we'll have to assume that Tesla is giving up margin because Musk has chased away his customer base. Too early to tell but the polling indicates that is a risk to some extent.

The number of Teslas owned by folks in my department has more than doubled so far this year, mostly in spite of Musk's antics.

It's Texas. Are you sure it's "in spite of Musk's antics"?

These are all people I know pretty well and I can't say 100% for all of them, but I am pretty confident.

[Isgrimnur]

Fair enough

[LawBeefaroni]

In less shitty news, I was going to share this earlier this week when it came out, but wanted to first see what folks in this space not affiliated with Tesla thought. I've been following Auke Hoekstra for a long time, so was happy to see that he thinks this is realistic (even with the tweet typo).





The source PDF is here. Worth reading a few times in full.

Any plan from TSLA needs to be taken with a silo of salt. This is the company thst promised us fully automated driving next year for the past decade The Cybertruck is due next year as well, for the past 5 or whatever it's been.

Their MO is to promise big, not deliver, and promise some some more, turning the equity boost into cash flow to keep the lights on and pump out more promises.

Now they promise to "power the world" with renewables?

[stessier]

.

This is the opening for everyone who thinks the other EVs are catching up to chime in.

I mean, you could spend 10k less on a car that isn't the best at spying on you, but to each their own.

This is the sort of deep analysis that I see all over social media.

Seriously though - The Bolt is 10k less and would work for 90% of the population who only drive around their towns. I have 65k miles on mine and have only DC fast charged 2x - both just to try it out. Hard sell that the Model 3 is the better option.