Octopus Overlords

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:14 pm**

Enough wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 4:15 pm
https://twitter.com/seungminkim/status/ ... 9403317254

Boom!

And that's why you hire lawyers.

No you can't have the documents you requested, but the appropriate the investigating body can have the documents, on my terms, and after I've been interviewed.

Talk about forcing Grassley's hand.

Everyone knows Grassley plans to use the documents to pick apart her account and not actually investigate. You are not trustworthy, and you certainly aren't "honorable", senator, and here we are publicly stating as much.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:17 pm**

YellowKing wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 3:59 pm I challenge anyone here to fly to DC, sit down in front of the entire Senate, and tell a giant lie without batting an eye. I mean what does she possibly have to gain from that? What kind of Oscar-caliber brass balls would you have to have to pull that off?

Yeah, look how lying under oath affected Dudebro - he seemingly went through the 7 stages of grief before our very eyes. Crying, raging, sniffing (I mean a LOT of sniffing

) apologizing, belligerating (just made that up), professing his love for beer over and over, etc.

Would have been hilarious if someone at the end would have asked "I'm a little unclear on one thing, Mr. Kavanaugh - do you, or do you not like beer?"

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:43 pm**

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:58 pm**

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 5:17 pm Crying, raging, sniffing (I mean a LOT of sniffing )

The fuck was up with drinking all that water?

If it wasn't in the afternoon I would have made a drinking game out of taking a swig every time he opened another bottle.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 6:17 pm**

Something that I don't believe has come up here on OO is that Dr. Ford has a doctorate and two master's degrees in psychology, and that she herself addressed the nature of memory in her testimony.

Given her background I'm willing to give her expert witness status re:memory.

Whether that's enough to address peoples' memory concerns is up to them.

My point is that Dr. Ford addressed concerns about her memory in a knowledgeable and professional fashion already. It's not a "what about this" moment after the fact.

Posted: **Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:13 pm**

Because nothing says 'we're taking this seriously' like scheduling a vote before the 'investigation' has concluded:

Senate moves ahead on Kavanaugh’s nomination with a procedural vote expected Friday
https://wapo.st/2Qs2GFf

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:20 am**

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Oct 03, 2018 10:13 pm Because nothing says 'we're taking this seriously' like scheduling a vote before the 'investigation' has concluded:

Senate moves ahead on Kavanaugh’s nomination with a procedural vote expected Friday
https://wapo.st/2Qs2GFf

That is because they know the 'investigation' was mostly a sham to begin with. Ramirez's 'penis in face' accusation is now corroborated by a theologian at Princeton who remembers hearing the story specifically about Kavanaugh days after it happened 30 years ago. Luckily he was soundly ignored by the FBI probe despite several attempts to contact them. And to top it he told at least one person about it at the time who also claim that it was true they talked about it back then.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:02 am**

News is saying they're all sharing a single copy of the FBI report in a secure room so it can't possibly be leaked out.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:36 am**

They will probably get to read it in five minutes blocks.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:36 am**

WaPo is reporting that investigation was handcuffed. They only looked into Ford. The other 2 accusations were scoped out. An utter sham. Just as many of us expected. Now we'll see if Flake has any integrity (spoiler: he doesn't - he is a messy drama queen and this was a stunt).

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:19 am**

Z-Corn wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:36 am They will probably get to read it in five minutes blocks.

Close. What I was reading said that all 100 Senators and 9 aides were cleared to read it. They'd have to read the one copy while sitting in a SCIF. The parties would be allowed alternating windows to read it, in 1 hour blocks. So Republicans get it from 9-10, Dems get it from 10-11, Repubs from 11-12, etc.

I'm sure you could come up with a scheme to make it look more like you were trying to hide what was in the report, but that'd probably involve putting the one copy in a safe in a dark basement guarded by leopards or something.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:32 am**

They have to alternate Republicans/Democrats so they have the option to swap the report out between each transition.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:38 am**

I'm half expecting something like "Republicans got access to the one copy of the report first. However, Democrats were unable to read it, because in the Republicans' hour, there was a freak accident involving the report having coffee spilled on it, then covered in toner, then finally set on fire. As a result, the Democrats were unable to read the report. Another copy couldn't be generated, because the original was produced on manual typewriter, which also caught on fire immediately after the report was completed. Republicans ensured the Democrats that there was nothing of note in the report, that it was a very boring read, and that it mostly said that Kavanaugh was a super chill dude."

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:10 am**

Chaz wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:38 amRepublicans ensured the Democrats that there was nothing of note in the report

Republicans saw to that without ever tampering with the paper copy.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:27 am**

So a president who was elected with a minority of the popular vote and aided by coordination with a foreign adversary, and who has done all he can to hamstring the investigation looking into this coordination, has now essentially helped hamstring an investigation into the potential SCOTUS judge who, if seated, will help him evade repercussions stemming from findings from the original investigation. Do I have that right?

Seems legit.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:27 am**

Ah yes, Republicans are the diabolical ones. Nothing wrong with the party that can't even pick their nominee in an honest manner.

Captain Caveman wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:27 am So a president who was elected with a minority of the popular vote

If only Hillary had known how things work with the electoral college.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:28 am**

North Dakota Senator: "Sure, he may have raped someone, but he's been a really good guy since. We're cool now, right?"

During an interview with local news station KX4, Cramer insisted that he believed Kavanaugh’s account that he didn’t try to rape Christine Blasey Ford when the two of them were teenagers.

However, later in the interview, he questioned whether Kavanaugh should actually be disqualified from serving on the Supreme Court if he had done what Ford alleges he did 36 years ago.

“What if something like what Dr. Ford describes happened — it’s tragic, it’s unfortunate, it’s terrible, it should never happen in our society,” he began. “But what if [there is] 36 years of a record where there’s nothing like that again, but instead there’s a record of a perfect gentleman, an intellect, a guy who’s been a stellar judge… even if it’s all true, does it disqualify him?”

Cramer then hedged slightly and acknowledged that “it certainly means he did something bad 36 years ago,” but then once again questioned whether it meant he shouldn’t be given a lifetime appointment to the nation’s highest court.

Video of him saying it is here. These people are just sick.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:29 am**

em2nought wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:27 am Ah yes, Republicans are the diabolical ones. Nothing wrong with the party that can't even pick their nominee in an honest manner.

Nice going champ, you sure beat the hell out of that strawman!

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:36 am**

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:29 am
em2nought wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:27 am Ah yes, Republicans are the diabolical ones. Nothing wrong with the party that can't even pick their nominee in an honest manner.
Nice going champ, you sure beat the hell out of that strawman!

Don't worry, next time I'm sure y'all will get smart and manufacture some pedophilia/human trafficking charges against whoever is to take RBG's spot.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:54 am**

Captain Caveman wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:27 am So a president who was elected with a minority of the popular vote and aided by coordination with a foreign adversary, and who has done all he can to hamstring the investigation looking into this coordination, has now essentially helped hamstring an investigation into the potential SCOTUS judge who, if seated, will help him evade repercussions stemming from findings from the original investigation. Do I have that right?

Seems legit.

I was puzzled as to why the GOP is determined to rush this particular guy through, when it would be safer and more sensible to start over with somebody less rapey. Last night Snopes explained to me that they need to seat this guy before a case comes up that will shield pardoned criminals from state prosecution (a case that the court agreed to hear the day after Kennedy retired), effectively making presidential pardons absolute. He has to be seated this month. Now it all makes sense as another step toward authoritarianism.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:55 am**

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:28 am North Dakota Senator: "Sure, he may have raped someone, but he's been a really good guy since. We're cool now, right?"

During an interview with local news station KX4, Cramer insisted that he believed Kavanaugh’s account that he didn’t try to rape Christine Blasey Ford when the two of them were teenagers.

However, later in the interview, he questioned whether Kavanaugh should actually be disqualified from serving on the Supreme Court if he had done what Ford alleges he did 36 years ago.

“What if something like what Dr. Ford describes happened — it’s tragic, it’s unfortunate, it’s terrible, it should never happen in our society,” he began. “But what if [there is] 36 years of a record where there’s nothing like that again, but instead there’s a record of a perfect gentleman, an intellect, a guy who’s been a stellar judge… even if it’s all true, does it disqualify him?”

Cramer then hedged slightly and acknowledged that “it certainly means he did something bad 36 years ago,” but then once again questioned whether it meant he shouldn’t be given a lifetime appointment to the nation’s highest court.
Video of him saying it is here. These people are just sick.

The thing is, even if you can swallow that plague ridden tired of an idea, it doesn't matter. The judgement and temperament Kavavaugh put on display, as well as his casual disregard for the truth show him to be unsuitable. That alone is enough reason he shouldn't get the nomination. Stuff he did a week ago. Not 36 years ago.

Oh, it's unfair that possibly false allegations exposed him as a wholly horrendous appointment for other reasons? Yeah, cry me a fucking river. The sanctity of the Supreme Court is worth it, snowflake.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:56 am**

Chaz wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 9:19 am I'm sure you could come up with a scheme to make it look more like you were trying to hide what was in the report, but that'd probably involve putting the one copy in a safe in a dark basement guarded by leopards or something.

Nice reference.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:02 am**

What's frightening is that there are plenty of conservative white guys they could replace him with and avoid all this hassle. The fact that they're willing to die on this sword indicates Kavanaugh is completely in their pocket (as if we didn't already know this). But I'm guessing it's to "backdoor deals" levels, not just "we believe in the same #MAGA stuff."

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:10 am**

YellowKing wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:02 am What's frightening is that there are plenty of conservative white guys they could replace him with and avoid all this hassle. The fact that they're willing to die on this sword indicates Kavanaugh is completely in their pocket (as if we didn't already know this). But I'm guessing it's to "backdoor deals" levels, not just "we believe in the same #MAGA stuff."

Also, getting him through despite all of his obvious flaws is a demonstration of power. Conceding here would result in not owning the libs, and we can't have that. The libs must be owned.

Of course, getting him on the court isn't just a demonstration of power but a way of tightening the GOP's grip on power for decades to come. Good luck getting any progressive legislation validated by the courts, libs.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:16 am**

Paingod wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 8:02 am News is saying they're all sharing a single copy of the FBI report in a secure room so it can't possibly be leaked out.

Soon Nunez will write a memo about the report and there will demands to have it released as it will be gospel for what is contained in the report.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:43 am**

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:49 am**

Fuck. Looks like Collins and Flake were looking for reasons to justify a yes vote, not reasons to justify a no vote.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:52 am**

The "scary time" for privileged young white men in America nightmare is finally over - whew! That was a pretty rough couple of days!

Carry on...even if you are a rapey, boorish drunk with questionable morals and anger issues, if you know the right people, and are willing to do and say anything for status, you can STILL be a SC Justice in modern America!

He really is a great pick.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:53 am**

And again, nobody is surprised. At least I'm not.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:55 am**

Vorret wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:53 am And again, nobody is surprised. At least I'm not.

Nope, not a bit. This is fully the outcome I expected, and feared.

Trump must be thrilled that he will now have his own personal "get out of jail free" card sitting on the bench.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:55 am**

The investigation becoming the litmus test for their votes conveniently absolves them from any obligation to explain how they're seemingly okay with all the other issues raised about his fitness for the SCOTUS based on his behavior in the hearing.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:58 am**

Paraphrased from something I saw on the Tweeter: The NYT ran a deeply-investigated piece accusing the President of fraud, he has not outright denied it, and it's not even a top story today. Meanwhile, the fix is quite clearly in for a lifetime appointment.

We're so fucked.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:08 pm**

But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security.

Wondering just how long is long.

*tap tap tap*

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:09 pm**

Skinypupy wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 10:28 am North Dakota Senator: "Sure, he may have raped someone, but he's been a really good guy since. We're cool now, right?"

During an interview with local news station KX4, Cramer insisted that he believed Kavanaugh’s account that he didn’t try to rape Christine Blasey Ford when the two of them were teenagers.

However, later in the interview, he questioned whether Kavanaugh should actually be disqualified from serving on the Supreme Court if he had done what Ford alleges he did 36 years ago.

“What if something like what Dr. Ford describes happened — it’s tragic, it’s unfortunate, it’s terrible, it should never happen in our society,” he began. “But what if [there is] 36 years of a record where there’s nothing like that again, but instead there’s a record of a perfect gentleman, an intellect, a guy who’s been a stellar judge… even if it’s all true, does it disqualify him?”

Cramer then hedged slightly and acknowledged that “it certainly means he did something bad 36 years ago,” but then once again questioned whether it meant he shouldn’t be given a lifetime appointment to the nation’s highest court.
Video of him saying it is here. These people are just sick.

I've got a good friend who's one of the smartest guys I know. He's progressive. He's liberal (especially socially). He works at the intersection of venture capital and clean-tech. He's worked in politics for democrats. He also believes strongly in redemption and forgiveness. I had a conversation with him the other day about Judge Kavanaugh. My friend is adamantly opposed to the Kavanaugh nomination, but he echoed comments very similar to Cramer's above: If Dr. Ford's allegations are in fact true and Judge Kavanaugh has lived an exemplary life for the past 36 years, this one incident should not preclude him from the Supreme Court.

I think he's wrong on that point. But I don't think he's "sick." Are we at the point where it's no longer possible to just disagree with people?

I don't know anything about Cramer. Maybe he is "sick," but I think there are a lot of good, decent people that share his point of view on this issue.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:10 pm**

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:58 am Paraphrased from something I saw on the Tweeter: The NYT ran a deeply-investigated piece accusing the President of fraud, he has not outright denied it, and it's not even a top story today. Meanwhile, the fix is quite clearly in for a lifetime appointment.

We're so fucked.

If "we" can get 2/3 majority out of the "Blue Wave" - we can still fix even lifetime appointments by simply looking at his testimony, highlighting a couple lies in magic marker, and calling it done - right?

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:15 pm**

Paingod wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 12:10 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 11:58 am Paraphrased from something I saw on the Tweeter: The NYT ran a deeply-investigated piece accusing the President of fraud, he has not outright denied it, and it's not even a top story today. Meanwhile, the fix is quite clearly in for a lifetime appointment.

We're so fucked.
If "we" can get 2/3 majority out of the "Blue Wave" - we can still fix even lifetime appointments by simply looking at his testimony, highlighting a couple lies in magic marker, and calling it done - right?

It's not possible to get to a 2/3rds Democratic Senate majority in the 2018 election - there aren't enough Republican seats up this cycle, even if Democrats literally won every Senate race this year. And even including 2020, the way the Senate is set up to get to a 2/3rds majority you'd have to win in some incredibly red states. Hell, the map's so bad that the Democrats only have about a 25% chance (per 538) of even getting to a majority in this heavily democratic year.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:07 pm**

Kurth wrote:Judge Kavanaugh has lived an exemplary life for the past 36 years

I assume you’re not including the whole lying under oath thing? Or is that also ok?

I actually could be persuaded at a very macro level, that if Mr X commits a relatively serious crime (another can o’ worms there) when he was 15, and since that time maybe he learned from that bad experience, and has turned into a near angel, doing good at every turn. I do believe in and support the concept of redemption.

But even if you lean that way, you really can’t (shouldn’t IMO) overlook the horrible demeanor of this person as we saw him, sneering, blaming, crying, yelling, belligerent, deceiving. Not to mention the beer comments.

If, as everyone says, this was a job interview and not a trial, with his weird focus on talking about beer, I bet not even Taco Bell would hire someone like that so fixated on the topic.

Taco Bell manager: Soooo Brett, what kind of hours are you...
BK: BEER!
TBM: say what now?
BK: I like beer. I also love lamp.
TBM: oooookay. Moving along, have you worked in...
BK: have you ever played quarters, or any of the 17 commonly known variations of quarters?
TBM: well, not a big drinker myself, but ..
BK: do you like drinking beer? I like it. I likeitalot!!
TBM: ok, thanks for coming...
BK: wanna hear a beer haiku?

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:13 pm**

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:07 pm
Kurth wrote:Judge Kavanaugh has lived an exemplary life for the past 36 years
I assume you’re not including the whole lying under oath thing? Or is that also ok?

I actually could be persuaded at a very macro level, that if Mr X commits a relatively serious crime (another can o’ worms there) when he was 15, and since that time maybe he learned from that bad experience, and has turned into a near angel, doing good at every turn. I do believe in and support the concept of redemption.

But even if you lean that way, you really can’t (shouldn’t IMO) overlook the horrible demeanor of this person as we saw him, sneering, blaming, crying, yelling, belligerent, deceiving. Not to mention the beer comments.

If, as everyone says, this was a job interview and not a trial, with his weird focus on talking about beer, I bet not even Taco Bell would hire someone like that so fixated on the topic.

Taco Bell manager: Soooo Brett, what kind of hours are you...
BK: BEER!
TBM: say what now?
BK: I like beer. I also love lamp.
TBM: oooookay. Moving along, have you worked in...
BK: have you ever played quarters, or any of the 17 commonly known variations of quarters?
TBM: well, not a big drinker myself, but ..
BK: do you like drinking beer? I like it. I likeitalot!!
TBM: ok, thanks for coming...
BK: wanna hear a beer haiku?

The other thing is that he hasn't really lived an exemplary life. Among other greatest hits:

(1) The Starr report - disrupting the lives of Vince Foster's family to follow up on insane right wing conspiracy theories; pressing Starr to grill Clinton on Lewinsky's vagina (seriously) with the explicit aim of persuading Congress to remove the President
(2) The e-mail scandal - receiving e-mails stolen from Democratic judiciary committee staffers, and lying about it to Congress multiple times (both in 2006 and in his 2018 hearings).

Not to mention other unanswered leads, like what the hell happened with his debt, and his role in the Ed Whelan debacle, etc.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:34 pm**

It's pretty much the worst case scenario, but we knew it all along. This was a rigged game from the get-go. Now the GOP can point to a "very thorough (fuck you Collins)" investigation and point at any Democrat uproar as evidence of their attempt to derail the nomination. Flake lives up to his name.

Posted: **Thu Oct 04, 2018 1:34 pm**

One upshot, if Kavanaugh does get confirmed, is that I do think it would probably be better for Democrats in the midterms if that happens. The Republican base will have what they want, while the Democratic base will be pissed as hell.

Octopus Overlords

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