Octopus Overlords

Archinerd wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:54 pm Don't forget ,we didn't yet realize just how many people there were who would refuse to get vaccinated.

Some of us knew all along. But you're right - there was an initial belief (hope?) that it would go much better.

That's also what helps to make the <12 vaccination issue so frustrating. So much of vaccination theory is reliant on the idea that people are doing it for the greater good. And this confirmed that there are plenty of people that do not care about anyone else, not even kids.

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 6:15 pm

Kraken wrote: Thu Oct 21, 2021 11:35 am It's a very interesting story, but too long to paste the whole thing in here. Point being that anti-vaxxers have always been with us.

They have. The difference now is their ability to monetize the movement and take advantage of social media.

In other news:

https://twitter.com/AdrienneLaF/status/ ... 7472875524

@Smoove - what about those of us who got 2 AZ shots? I haven't been following ALL the vaccination news but have noticed that there is little to no talk about the AZ people like me. Am I stuck on the island of misfit toys?

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:07 pm

Archinerd wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 1:54 pm Don't forget ,we didn't yet realize just how many people there were who would refuse to get vaccinated.

Some of us knew all along. But you're right - there was an initial belief (hope?) that it would go much better.

That's also what helps to make the <12 vaccination issue so frustrating. So much of vaccination theory is reliant on the idea that people are doing it for the greater good. And this confirmed that there are plenty of people that do not care about anyone else, not even kids.

Those who do not learn from history, etc.

Roman wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:24 pm @Smoove - what about those of us who got 2 AZ shots? I haven't been following ALL the vaccination news but have noticed that there is little to no talk about the AZ people like me. Am I stuck on the island of misfit toys?

It would seem so. I am not entirely familiar with what's been happening with AZ, but it looks like it was given approval for booster about a month ago in the UK, with the recommendation that a Pfizer shot be given. Not sure about the status in Canada, but it looks like they're recommending a booster for very specific people as of a few weeks ago.

I think overall the rush to offer boosters might be different because unlike the United States, Canada and the UK spaced the AZ shots at 10-12 weeks instead of 3. That's the thing I was mentioning earlier - people that had that type of vaccination schedule likely had an overall higher immune response so the booster recommendation isn't going to be as...urgent.

The CBC recently ran a fairly extensive article on the booster situation here in Canada.

Why doctors say COVID booster shots aren't for everyone — yet

Roman wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 2:24 pm

@Smoove - what about those of us who got 2 AZ shots? I haven't been following ALL the vaccination news but have noticed that there is little to no talk about the AZ people like me. Am I stuck on the island of misfit toys?

I was AZ then Moderna - and I'm sticking to Moderna from here on out (unless something changes with a variant). You're sitting around 72%-82% prevention of infection, and around 70% infection (66%-70% of preventing a Delta infection), but 93-94% to prevent any kind of hospitalization. You might be a bit more likely to get covid, but it's not putting you in the hospital (Delta or otherwise).

The one thing I don't know is if you can still get long covid if you are fully vaxxed and never hit a hospital, can you still be a big piece of shit for years to come while walking up the stairs? No idea.

FishPants wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:24 pm The one thing I don't know is if you can still get long covid if you are fully vaxxed and never hit a hospital, can you still be a big piece of shit for years to come while walking up the stairs? No idea.

Everything I've seen suggests the current risks for long Covid are associated with an infection that causes symptoms, which makes sense. If the virus is actually doing something to your body, there's a risk for whatever is being done to be long term.

Here, unvaccianted people have the highest risk then (whatever that number is, we're still not sure) for having Long Covid.

Vaccinated people have a significantly reduced risk of infection and even if they get infected, their risk of being symptomatic is also reduced. So here even if you're vaccinated the risk of Long Covid isn't zero, but its orders of magnitude lower than being unvaccinated.

Believe it or not, there hasn't been any study that I'm aware of on vaccinated + asymptomatic populations. To do so would require proactive testing and, well, we know how that's going.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:29 pm

FishPants wrote: Fri Oct 22, 2021 7:24 pm The one thing I don't know is if you can still get long covid if you are fully vaxxed and never hit a hospital, can you still be a big piece of shit for years to come while walking up the stairs? No idea.

Everything I've seen suggests the current risks for long Covid are associated with an infection that causes symptoms, which makes sense. If the virus is actually doing something to your body, there's a risk for whatever is being done to be long term.

I've definitely seen it reported that mild covid (which I would interpret as definitely never going to the hospital) getting long covid, and I've even seen some reports of asymptomatic cases developing long covid. For example:

Many people who experience long-term symptoms from the coronavirus did not feel sick at all when they were initially infected, according to a new study that adds compelling information to the increasingly important issue of the lasting health impact of Covid-19.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/03/08/heal ... matic.html

Here, unvaccianted people have the highest risk then (whatever that number is, we're still not sure) for having Long Covid.

Vaccinated people have a significantly reduced risk of infection and even if they get infected, their risk of being symptomatic is also reduced. So here even if you're vaccinated the risk of Long Covid isn't zero, but its orders of magnitude lower than being unvaccinated.

There was a study I posted in one of these threads that suggested that being vaccinated halves your chances of getting long covid if you get a breakthrough infection (in comparison to an unvaccinated person getting infected). I want to say it was 5% as opposed to 10%, but I could easily be misremembering, so I'll see if I can find it.

Edit: didn't find the actual numbers, but here's an article on a study on how it reduces your chances by 49% of continuing to have symptoms 28 days later.

https://www.healthline.com/health-news/ ... m-symptoms

Tomorrow. Tomorrow is the day I know so many of you have been waiting for.

Tomorrow the Food and Drug Administration's (FDA) Vaccines and Related Biological Products Advisory Committee will meet to consider Pfizer-BioNTech's application for emergency use authorization of its COVID-19 vaccine for children 5 to 11 years old.

Late last week the company submitted data to the administration showing its vaccine was 91% effective in preventing COVID-19 illnesses in children. If authorized, the vaccine will become the first approved for use in young children.

No reason to believe it won't be approved so then:

...the application moves to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) advisory committee early next week.

Which means:

...that COVID-19 vaccines for children ages 5 to 11 will very likely be available within the first week or two of November, if approved by both the FDA and CDC. This means many kids could enter the holiday season fully or partially vaccinated against a virus that has dominated two school years.

The Pfizer vaccine dose is a reduced dose compared with the strength used with recipients ages 12 and older. Like the standard dose, the vaccine is administered in a two-shot series 21 days apart.

There's also information about Moderna for kids in this article; that has finally uncloaked and it looks like good stuff.

To be clear, it sounds like the FDA is posed to vote on vaccines for 5 - 11 YO tomorrow, not just to meet and discuss?

El Guapo wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 10:45 am To be clear, it sounds like the FDA is posed to vote on vaccines for 5 - 11 YO tomorrow, not just to meet and discuss?

Today, and yes.

3 cases of teenagers whose mind got wrecked by COVID due to COVID-triggered autoimmune disorder. Virus got into spinal fluid, and immune system started attacking the brain instead. Result is brain inflammation resulting in mood swings, delusions, paranoia, rage mind, brain fog, and more. Afflicted had to be treated with both systemic steroids AND immunoglobins, neither were standard psychiatric treatments.

All 3 cases were at the UCSF Benioff Children's Hospital. This has implications that teenage COVID and psychiatric issues are VASTLY underreported and not treated correctly, which can result in cognitive impairment (and no prognosis of recovery). One teenager turned from A-student to requiring special accommodations.

Don't know if folks would want to know about this, but with the recent OK to get booster shots in Florida for 65+ I went to our Publix supermarket website to sign up for booster shots. Last time (IE February) when I went there to sign up I spent about a half hour trying to get a slot, being bumped as slots went away, etc. I finally found a Publix an hour away that had slots on separate days, but at least we got them.

Just now I went on the site to sign up for booster shots. It was much better organized, you request a certain Publix and they gave you a slot. If you liked it you signed up for it and you had twenty minutes to fill out the forms. And so we are going in a couple of days to the Publix ten miuntes away.

5-11 year olds should be approved, committee votes.

Surprise!

jztemple2 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:39 pm Don't know if folks would want to know about this, but with the recent OK to get booster shots in Florida for 65+ I went to our Publix supermarket website to sign up for booster shots. Last time (IE February) when I went there to sign up I spent about a half hour trying to get a slot, being bumped as slots went away, etc. I finally found a Publix an hour away that had slots on separate days, but at least we got them.

Just now I went on the site to sign up for booster shots. It was much better organized, you request a certain Publix and they gave you a slot. If you liked it you signed up for it and you had twenty minutes to fill out the forms. And so we are going in a couple of days to the Publix ten miuntes away.

Bonus: you can get a Publix sub while you're there!

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:40 pm 5-11 year olds should be approved, committee votes.

Surprise!

My kids can't wait!

Hopefully late next week is the scuttlebutt. I have a kid with a bday this weekend, though, so that'd be just great if they can make that happen.

Instead of opting for a booster, could someone who got J&J choose to get re-vaccinated with one of the others?

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 4:50 pm

jztemple2 wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 3:39 pm Don't know if folks would want to know about this, but with the recent OK to get booster shots in Florida for 65+ I went to our Publix supermarket website to sign up for booster shots. Last time (IE February) when I went there to sign up I spent about a half hour trying to get a slot, being bumped as slots went away, etc. I finally found a Publix an hour away that had slots on separate days, but at least we got them.

Just now I went on the site to sign up for booster shots. It was much better organized, you request a certain Publix and they gave you a slot. If you liked it you signed up for it and you had twenty minutes to fill out the forms. And so we are going in a couple of days to the Publix ten miuntes away.

Bonus: you can get a Publix sub while you're there!

We like their subs better than Subway. More choices . Rather surprising there hasn't been more advertisement here in Florida that you can now schedule booster shots online. There was a lot of hemming and hawing about when the boosters would actually be available for 65+ folks.

Alefroth wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:29 pm Instead of opting for a booster, could someone who got J&J choose to get re-vaccinated with one of the others?

If you have concerns, I think J&J+Moderna is your answer. I'm not sure what you'd actually gain (from a practical standpoint) by getting two more Moderna shots after that and I doubt it's been studied in large numbers.

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 6:37 pm

Alefroth wrote: Tue Oct 26, 2021 5:29 pm Instead of opting for a booster, could someone who got J&J choose to get re-vaccinated with one of the others?

If you have concerns, I think J&J+Moderna is your answer. I'm not sure what you'd actually gain (from a practical standpoint) by getting two more Moderna shots after that and I doubt it's been studied in large numbers.

I thought J&J + Moderna (booster) was an approved combo?

You aren’t following.

They are saying “let’s pretend I never got J&J, and just go get the two shots of Moderna.”


What you are taking about is adding 1 Moderna booster to ones 1 J&J vaccination.

Was talking to my banker today as we stood there. Both of us had masks on so the topic was Covid and our shots. I mentioned I did not want long covid. She said she had covid and you should pray you never have it. She said she have permanent scarred lungs because of it.

5 Lingering Questions about COVID Vaccines for Kids

Includes this gem:

Wu: Getting vaccines down to young kids took a very long time, and we still haven’t reached the under-5 crowd. What can we learn from this? Did it have to be this way?

Permar: We’ve got to do this differently in the future. It is a travesty that we sent kids back to school without this vaccine available to them, while adults were benefiting from vaccine immunity, going to restaurants with our vaccine cards. We should not leave children to the very last. Maybe in the future, we can start testing age groups in parallel.

You'll know when 5-11 year olds have approval for the vaccines because there will be lots and lots of visible and vocal pressure to immediately remove mask mandates in schools ~30 second later.

To be clear, we should not be removing mask mandates in schools anytime soon.

And yes, we absolutely need to change this process. I hope we never need to deal with this again in our collective lifetimes, but assuming we can get through this (jury is still out), there needs to be systemic change for public health.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Oct 27, 2021 1:15 pm And yes, we absolutely need to change this process. I hope we never need to deal with this again in our collective lifetimes, but assuming we can get through this (jury is still out), there needs to be systemic change for public health.

I am sure our fully-functional government will get right on that.

Before Covid outed all the assholes I thought Westboro Baptist Church was the dumbest evilest kid on the block.

I don't know enough on whether this is a big deal or not but it feels like this could be fairly groundbreaking research if it proves out.

It appears that this therapy stops SARS-COV2 in it's tracks when infection is detected, or could be used as a preventative (although not clear if this is the same duration as a vaccine). What's your take Smoove?

That's interesting, hadn't seen that reported yet. The anti-depressants being used as anti-inflammatory meds as well is another interesting unforseen development. It's almost like...when we apply science to things during a global crisis, we learn all kinds of new stuff. Reminds me very much of all the new things we learned about Ebola back in 2015 when it suddenly became an international problem.

I guess I should note (for anyone that cares) that I did receive my Moderna booster yesterday (having been previously vaccinated with Moderna back in April). Nothing major to report. Slight headache and I felt a tiny bit off yesterday afternoon and evening, but nothing close to how off I felt after the second shot. Just a little more tired and a little mentally foggy. Feel fine today.

I've seen random online chatter that for some people mixing the vaccines (Getting a Moderna after two Pfizer or a single J&J) has caused some discomfort, but nothing crazy or anything out of what might be expected.

No idea how this is all going to pan out bigger picture, but as someone in the elevated risk category I do feel better about the coming Winter.

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:03 pm I guess I should note (for anyone that cares) that I did receive my Moderna booster yesterday (having been previously vaccinated with Moderna back in April). Nothing major to report. Slight headache and I felt a tiny bit off yesterday afternoon and evening, but nothing close to how off I felt after the second shot. Just a little more tired and a little mentally foggy. Feel fine today.

I've seen random online chatter that for some people mixing the vaccines (Getting a Moderna after two Pfizer or a single J&J) has caused some discomfort, but nothing crazy or anything out of what might be expected.

I got a Moderna booster yesterday too. I had J&J first time around.
The microchip Moderna uses must be a bit bigger, because my arm is a little tender today. Other than that, just a bit drowsy.

Now that I've got two, I might as well collect them all.
(j/k)

I'm holding out for a foil or holo booster in 2022.

The boosters are still only 65+ or for high risk professions, right?

El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:48 pm The boosters are still only 65+ or for high risk professions, right?

18+ and more than 2 months for J&J.

El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:48 pm The boosters are still only 65+ or for high risk professions, right?

And anyone else identified as high risk based on health status. Also, the CDC has said anyone 18 or older that received the J&J shot should consider a booster ASAP. I would personally go with Moderna, but booster regardless, as seen here, updated 10/21.

...and vaccinated BAMm'd

Hmmmm, I may be fat enough to qualify (got Pfizer before).

While my Province has removed most restrictions including reduced capacity, it comes at a time when my region is actually trending in the opposite with one of the highest in the Province at the moment. I've heard of recommendations to not relax the measures until March, which I'd agree with.

Archinerd wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:44 pm The microchip Moderna uses must be a bit bigger, because my arm is a little tender today.

Yeah, it's those pointy things that make them so uncomfortable:

Smoove_B wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:53 pm

El Guapo wrote: Thu Oct 28, 2021 1:48 pm The boosters are still only 65+ or for high risk professions, right?

And anyone else identified as high risk based on health status. Also, the CDC has said anyone 18 or older that received the J&J shot should consider a booster ASAP. I would personally go with Moderna, but booster regardless, as seen here, updated 10/21.

...and vaccinated BAMm'd

I thought I also read anyone at high risk due to their work qualified as well (and that manufacturing was considered high risk).