Octopus Overlords

Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:32 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:00 pm I would guess that by charging that entry fee, they cut the number of visitors this year by half to 2/3, at least. I can't imagine it was anything but a complete disaster for them financially.

Or maybe they made the same revenue from 1/3 as many visitors. In retail, at least, it's a lot less work to get $100 from one person than $1 from 100 people.

I'd be shocked if that were the case. I drive by there every afternoon on my way home, and have seen barely a fraction of the people at the patch. There were maybe a dozen people milling around inside today, where there were typically over a hundred. In prior years, they would have lines out the door at all times of the day with people buying pumpkins. This year, I walked in and was the only one in line, on the day before Halloween.

So I think a more apt comparison is that they're now making $70/family from 100 families (due to the cover charge), rather than making $50/family from 500 families, since so many just turned around and left instead of paying the admission fee. It would be like WalMart deciding to charge people $5 just to come in the door. Most people (like me) would simply go to the Target down the street and get the same thing.

Maybe I'm wrong and the decision has been a good one for them, but that would be very surprising.

Should do like amusement parks. Say $5 - $10 each with kids free or $2 and then all inside is free with a free pumpkin and each extra one $5 - $10.

Like the Goo said, you'll find out next year. Either they'll revert to free admission, or they won't.

Me and Wife have been going apple picking every fall since almost forever. It almost didn't work out that way. For the first couple of years, we went to a farm that was just a little outside of Boston, and therefore the one that everyone in Boston defaulted to. I called it Disneyland for Apples. Nowadays I think it's "agritourism." They had apples. They had pumpkins. They had hayrides, a corn maze, a greenhouse nursery, a farm store that was more like a supermarket...and on and on. All of it more and more overcrowded and overpriced each year. (Eventually the land got too valuable for agriculture and they sold it to a developer, but that was long after we stopped going there.)

I refused to go apple picking again until Wife found a small family orchard farther away. It was busy for a month out of the year, but never overcrowded because they didn't go in for all the entertainment stuff. They sold apples. They made cider. Eventually they added pumpkins. And that was all. Phil pressed the cider. His wife Phyllis took the money. Phil's twin brother Other Phil tended the orchard. That was the whole operation. We went to Phil's for 20+ years, until Phil died and the new owners converted the orchard to a subdivision (Phyllis and Other Phil were too old and bereaved to continue it). Then we went to Honeypot Hills -- exactly once. That place was agritourism all over again, and we hated it. A few years ago Phil's niece recommended another small-time operation on Facebook, and that's our new go-to.

There was a point to this story when I started typing it. Really, there was. I don't remember it because none of these places charged admission. Oh yeah: The point is that sometimes smaller, simpler businesses are better, even if they don't make the big bucks. Maybe your orchard owner is just sick of being Disneyland and wants to downsize. Or maybe he needs to squeeze out every last dime because his land is getting too valuable for agriculture. If it converts to housing, that's what happened.

We have a great family owned and run orchard here. They have many types of apples and the best apple cider Ive ever tasted. About 8 years ago they built on a little and added a bakery with great stuff. But they are not a pick your own place. On their website it states that in big letters so you know. But going is free. The cider used to be .25 cents a cup which was great. Stayed in my bathroom a week after one trip and too many cups Haven't been in about 5 years. No money these days. Love winesaps and miss them.

Really REALLY been thinking of Petros this year. Its a fast food chain from Knoxville. In the 1990s we had one here in Chattanooga at the mall and me and my wife LOVED those things. Plus they had THE best tea....Hint of Orange. Anyways they left by the end of the decade never to return. But they are still up in Knoxville. At this point we are not driving up there for one. But I know whats in them and how to make them and plan to. But I dont want to simply use a bowl or a solo cup. I want to find those paper like bowl cups they use.

Anyone know if they sell them some place that could be local and if they have some name they go by?

They look like this..

LINK

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Skinypupy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 30, 2018 10:00 pmTurns out, they decided that they are now going to charge people $5 a head simply to come into their pumpkin patch...

Yeah... I wouldn't pay for the privilege of gaining access to a farm so I could pay for something inside. Pass.

We go apple picking each year, a couple of times, and I think if they ever tried to do something like that, we'd keep on driving down the road as well. I will admit, though, that the pumpkins we picked up from the farm this year had really thick, tough exteriors. Much harder to carve than the store-bought one, which was thin and soft by the time we did them. I expect the farm ones will look good still long after the store-bought one turns to mush.

Farm stands were always a good/bad inspection scenario for me. Never middle ground - always completely fine or annoying as hell. With NJ being the Garden State you'd be amazed at how influential farmers are on local and state politics. They have all kinds of special laws and exemptions here in NJ, not unlike coal mining regulations at a national level. Anyway, the one that always annoyed me was how all the local farmers started selling "homemade pies" and other baked goods at their farm stand, all under this "right to farm" guise. They grow pumpkins, they grow apples, why can't they sell apple and pumpkin pies?

I get that they're trying to thrive and creatively try and make money. But reheating mass-produced frozen pies in your house kitchen and then trying to pretend you "farmed" it is ridiculous. I am sure that I am on multiple hit lists for shutting that type of stuff down. Same with PTO bake sales.

This is not 'Nam. There are rules!

They have a local place where they have an apple orchard and sell apple products. (no phones tho)
Anyrate they've had their apple festival every year for god knows how long. A few years ago they tore down the trees (for a housing tract I assume) but they still have their little building and are still having apple festivals.

Same with PTO bake sales.

Uh oh.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:23 am Same with PTO bake sales.

I need more information. What rules did they run afoul of? Were they making food on site?

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:12 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 9:23 am Same with PTO bake sales.

I need more information. What rules did they run afoul of? Were they making food on site?

I think it's bringing cookies in from a grocery store without even taking them out of the store wrapper. That's a big faux pas.

Kraken wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 12:11 am Or maybe he needs to squeeze out every last dime because his land is getting too valuable for agriculture. If it converts to housing, that's what happened.

I'm actually a little shocked this hasn't happened already. When we moved out here, I told Mrs. Skinypupy that I absolutely refused to move any further south or west because there was nothing out here. We were literally one small subdivision surrounded by farmland.

In the 15 years since, it feels like the entire population of the Salt Lake valley has moved this direction. Every single plot of farmland has been turned into shopping centers, housing developments, a hundred different office parks, and even an LDS temple, with this farm being one of the last holdouts. It's done wonders for our property values (my home value has more than doubled since 2004, and there's no way I could afford to move into my own neighborhood right now), but I've been sort of waiting to see if/when this guy was finally just going to take the huge check that is almost assuredly coming his way.

Checked out their social media this morning, and every review in the past 3 weeks is people saying how disappointed they were in the decision to charge an admission fee, and that they'll be going elsewhere to get pumpkins.

It'll be really interesting to see what happens next year.

stessier wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:12 amI need more information. What rules did they run afoul of? Were they making food on site?

The laws have been updated, but at the time making food for sale, gifting or donation in a non-licensed, non-inspected kitchen was forbidden. In other words, if I cannot inspect your home kitchen (I can't), you shouldn't be able to sell food out of it. This is why the cottage food industry is raging in our state as they want to reap the benefits of retail business without being held to the same rules.

The new laws allow for non-profits (like a PTO or a church) to have bake sales or similar fund raisers with home-prepared foods but there has to be signage that clearly identifies that the food was prepared in a non-licensed, non-inspected facility and patrons are consuming it at their own risk.

As someone that is both certified and licensed to inspect how food is being prepared, I scoff at the idea that "home prepared" isn't potentially dangerous and shouldn't be regulated. Rare, but deadly.

If milk came from toes, that would be leg-end-dairy.

Where does dragon milk come from?

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:41 am Where does dragon milk come from?

Spoiler:

Short cows

Someone was thinking of starting a kebob vending cart after seeing so many food vendors on Market Street, so I did some research. Not only you need a license to serve food (i.e. your prep is out of an industrial inspected kitchen), your mobile equipment must also be pre-approved, all the operating personnel had to hold a food handler certificate, owner must go through manager's training, but you also have to go through a city planner's meeting to get a specific spot if you're setting up in public place (like downtown sidewalk) plus get permission from the nearest business(es) for your employee to use their "facilities" (restrooms, etc.) You practically need a facilitator to guide you through the process. Same idea with food trucks. There's a ton of bureaucracy to wade through.

You live in California. Attempting to get a food truck permit is known to the State of California to cause cancer and birth defects or other reproductive harm.

Throughout the course of my day I drive a lot of miles through countryside and farm land. It's easily the best part of my day.

It seems we must have had a bumper crop of squash this year. For 6 or 8 weeks all the farm stands have been loaded with pumpkins and butternuts and acorns and they are STILL loaded. What I'm noticing now that I don't recall seeing before is entire fields of squash not even harvested.

It's kinda cool now that the leaves have all died back, seeing a whole hillside of pumpkins. I'm talking thousands...

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:37 am Someone was thinking of starting a kebob vending cart after seeing so many food vendors on Market Street, so I did some research. Not only you need a license to serve food (i.e. your prep is out of an industrial inspected kitchen), your mobile equipment must also be pre-approved, all the operating personnel had to hold a food handler certificate, owner must go through manager's training, but you also have to go through a city planner's meeting to get a specific spot if you're setting up in public place (like downtown sidewalk) plus get permission from the nearest business(es) for your employee to use their "facilities" (restrooms, etc.) You practically need a facilitator to guide you through the process. Same idea with food trucks. There's a ton of bureaucracy to wade through.

Alas, a hefty chunk of occupational licensing exists primarily as a tool for crony capitalism, intended as an anticompetitive inhibitor to stifle competition (e.g. Louisiana's ludicrous licensing requirements for flower-arranging).

Dont really care for over regulation. Its it safer. Maybe. Maybe not. I look at it more as a way to take money from people. I love home made sales. Would I buy potato salad or such from one? Probably not. Here we have lots of food trucks and Im glad of it.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:30 pm Dont really care for over regulation. Its it safer. Maybe. Maybe not. I look at it more as a way to take money from people. I love home made sales. Would I buy potato salad or such from one? Probably not. Here we have lots of food trucks and Im glad of it.

You guys talk like running a food truck should be somehow exempt from food safety regulations. As far as food regulations go, it's not much different from running a restaurant.

Chances are what Kasey describes in San Francisco is nearly identical in any major city in the US and Canada.

Smoove probably has an opinion, but I seriously, seriously doubt there is significant variation between cities or states. Now, do some food trucks/temporary roadside stands/other operate unlicensed? Probably. But that just means they are operating illegally. They aren't magically immune to all the issues regulations are designed to cover.

Of freakin' course you need to meet with the city and stake out your territory. Otherwise you'd have food trucks cannon ball running to the best spots every day, or simply camping there for weeks on end. Guess what? Hotdog carts need to do this too.

I wouldn't know about crony capitalism, but flower arranging isn't food preparation.

edit: Ok, wtf? I completely missed that Smoove had been in the thread, talking about the subject already. Not sure how that happened, Seriously strange.

And look at all the regulations whore houses have..........not sure if that falls under food or flowers tho.

GreenGoo wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 11:18 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Oct 31, 2018 10:30 pm Dont really care for over regulation. Its it safer. Maybe. Maybe not. I look at it more as a way to take money from people. I love home made sales. Would I buy potato salad or such from one? Probably not. Here we have lots of food trucks and Im glad of it.

You guys talk like running a food truck should be somehow exempt from food safety regulations.

If that were what I meant, I would've said as much; the notion that some occupational licensing exists as means to stifle competition needn't equate to a belief that food trucks as a whole should be exempt from food safety regulations.

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:11 am If that were what I meant, I would've said as much; the notion that some occupational licensing exists as means to stifle competition needn't equate to a belief that food trucks as a whole should be exempt from food safety regulations.

Yeah, I meant Daehawk and Isgrim. I didn't read your post until after I had posted, only then going back and editing in the cronyism comment.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 12:07 am And look at all the regulations whore houses have..........not sure if that falls under food or flowers tho.

Probably under "food", because I'm fairly certain the flowers are long gone.

You guys talk like running a food truck should be somehow exempt from food safety regulations. As far as food regulations go, it's not much different from running a restaurant.

Oh I didn't mean they shouldn't or dont need to meet the normal standards of a store eatery. I was talking about extra regulation about forcing them to use a big industrial kitchen for prep and or cooking. Here they do all that on the truck as far as I can tell.

Been wanting to do something for a while so just now for Halloween me and the wife watched the Mummy Dearest ep of Hercules The Legendary Journeys. Such a fun ep for the holiday back in the 90s. Now not so much at all but glad I watched it. Fun stuff.

Its not happened lately but I have multiple times set something to cook and set the beep timer only to be on the pc and not hear it or forget it totally. Ive boiled eggs dry until they pop and melted an aluminum dutch oven to the heating eye. I should look for a beeper alarm timer for my pc and set it to the same as in there. The kitchen is on the other end of the house to boot.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:46 am ...melted an aluminum dutch over to the heating eye.

I have no earthly idea what that means.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:07 am

Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:46 am ...melted an aluminum dutch over to the heating eye.

I have no earthly idea what that means.

A dutch oven is basically a 4-8 quart pot . Normally oval in shape with a lid. I had my late father n laws one from no telling when....maybe the 1950s. I was boiling water because it was dry in the house that winter. I left it on the stove eye boiling then forgot all about it. When I wandered into the kitchen after smelling metal and hearing pops I saw the entire bottom had melted in the shape of the stove eye it was sitting on. I turned it off but it was making such a sound I was afraid it would explode hot metal on me if I moved it so I let it cool. It hardened around the eye itself. Took me a while to get it apart. The pot was full aluminum and not a harder metal like steel or iron.

If you have a smart phone or tablet, they will have timers. I use the one on my phone all the time. For that exact reason. I often can't hear the timer on the microwave if I'm in the other room.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:08 am

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 8:07 am

Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 7:46 am ...melted an aluminum dutch over to the heating eye.

I have no earthly idea what that means.

A dutch oven is basically a 4-8 quart pot .

A dutch oven I know. Heating eye?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:25 am A dutch oven I know. Heating eye?

Yeah, I raised an eyebrow over that one as well.

"Return to boil over medium Sauron, then squint to simmer."

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:27 am "Return to boil over medium Sauron, then squint to simmer."

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:27 am "Return to boil over medium Sauron, then squint to simmer."

Ah. its a southern term I guess. I see them online even named that though.

Put it on the eye...........turn the eye on................use the front left eye..............just what we say. Better than heating element or burner...its not on fire.

How to Clean Stove Eyes on a Whirlpool Stove

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Nov 01, 2018 9:25 am A dutch oven I know. Heating eye?

That's what threw me as well.

My brain didn't parse "dutch over" as "dutch oven" either. No wonder I was confused.