Octopus Overlords

Kids are going in for their first dose on Saturday. I need to contemplate a booster.

Jeff V wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:15 am Kids are going in for their first dose on Saturday. I need to contemplate a booster.

Let me help. Diabeetus is listed as a certain medical condition that would put you at increased risk. If you're 6+ months out from your last shot, do not hesitate; get that booster.

I'm a little disappointed that my county is not firing up the vaccine clinics like they did earlier this year. So I'm more likely to wait until my next doctor appointment, which will be in another month.

I honestly wouldn't recommend waiting for your PCP to get it. Go to a pharmacy chain if that's your only option. Remember, it's going to be another 2 weeks after you booster before you get a benefit, so you want to start that now so your boosted long before Xmas. Additionally, based on your part of 'merica, I would imagine cases are going to start ratcheting up sooner than later based on weather. From what I'm seeing in VT and MN, we're collectively in for it. You want to be ahead of the wave - not scrambling to respond as it's hitting.

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:17 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:02 pm Just got back from my first-ever covid test at the Walgreen's drive-thru. Somehow I made it through 20 pandemic months without any known exposures until now. My friend's test came back negative today, so we're probably in the clear. Will know for sure in a day or two.

Boston area wastewater monitoring. Spoiler - the virus is lurking nearby. Prepare.

So you're saying I should stop drinking and swimming in wastewater? Geez, what next?

CVS allowed me to schedule my appointment online with no issues.

Kraken wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 12:38 am

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 11:17 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 6:02 pm Just got back from my first-ever covid test at the Walgreen's drive-thru. Somehow I made it through 20 pandemic months without any known exposures until now. My friend's test came back negative today, so we're probably in the clear. Will know for sure in a day or two.

Boston area wastewater monitoring. Spoiler - the virus is lurking nearby. Prepare.

So you're saying I should stop drinking and swimming in wastewater? Geez, what next?

Contaminated lobsters that become ginormous and wreak havoc in the city? I think Stephen King can fill you in on the detail.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Nov 15, 2021 11:44 am It just registered with me that my kids' second dose appointment is on Black Friday. We're not traveling so that's good but man, did not want to leave the house on that day.

FWIW our pediatrician recommended waiting a bit longer than the auto-scheduled date for the second shot for our 11yo boy.

Can’t remember if you have boys or girls or a mix.

He said he waited an extra month or two (?) for his own boys out of an abundance of caution due to the (rare) enlarged heart issues:

Cases of myocarditis reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) have occurred:

-After mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), especially in male adolescents and young adults
-More often after the second dose
-Usually within a week of vaccination

How does the rate of myocarditis caused by vaccination compare to the rate of myocarditis caused by SARS-CoV-2 infection?

Max Peck wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:06 am How does the rate of myocarditis caused by vaccination compare to the rate of myocarditis caused by SARS-CoV-2 infection?

No idea. IANAD, nor do I play one on TV.

I assume it’s higher, especially after receiving the first shot. Otherwise why would the ped. recommend waiting?

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:30 pm ...and Michelle's mother was just admitted and tested positive in the process. She's right around 80, and was fully vaccinated early, was careful, and was smart. But this is Indiana, and smart has to come with lucky. We'll see how it goes.

Michelle (2 shots + booster) has been around her, so she was sent home from work (she works at the same hospital her mother went to.) Ian (2 shots) was around her last week. We're cancelling all of his appointments for this week and getting him tested tomorrow morning, just to be safe. Caiden (2 shots) is scheduled for outpatient (but still under general anesthesia) surgery on Monday, and would be getting a test on Friday regardless. We're hoping it won't interfere with his surgery, as it's been in the works for quite a while. I (2 shots) am mostly just reorganizing everything and trying to keep everyone else from freaking out.

Sigh.

Ian went in for his q-tip lobotomy today, and I figured - why the hell not? and got my brain poked, too. Michelle will be getting a test from work today, and Caiden is scheduled for tomorrow anyway. So in a few days we'll at least know that much.

Caiden and I had colds a couple of weeks ago. He picked it up and passed it to me. No particularly COVID-like symptoms (mostly sneezing and clogged sinuses), but now it's got me wondering.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 9:53 am He said he waited an extra month or two (?) for his own boys out of an abundance of caution due to the (rare) enlarged heart issues:

Cases of myocarditis reported to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) have occurred:

-After mRNA COVID-19 vaccination (Pfizer-BioNTech or Moderna), especially in male adolescents and young adults
-More often after the second dose
-Usually within a week of vaccination

VAERS is an open system that allows anyone with a phone or an internet connection to report an adverse event associated with vaccination. As such, it's been poisoned by the anti-vax people. They will report an adverse event en masse and then go online with screenshots of that problem being reported by "thousands of people" and claim there are issues.

Max Peck wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:06 am How does the rate of myocarditis caused by vaccination compare to the rate of myocarditis caused by SARS-CoV-2 infection?

I believe the last study I saw said young male adults are 6x more likely to get myocarditis from COVID-19 than from being vaccinated. That's...significant.

Blackhawk wrote:No particularly COVID-like symptoms (mostly sneezing and clogged sinuses), but now it's got me wondering.

Oy, just saw this from yesterday. Sorry to hear it. And I agree, being vaccinated isn't enough anymore - masking will be critical in the coming months. Both Canada and the UK are now putting out messaging to communicate that the virus is airborne. We know it here in the US, but its not being communicated nor are policies and guidance being updated to reflect it. I hope all goes well.

My daughter is one of 5 kids in her class that signed up for voluntary weekly testing.

She had her weekly test yesterday. It took 55 minutes out of class time for a 2 minute test. Apparently they call all the kids from all grades at the same time and just line them up.

One of her teachers called is last night to confirm what our daughter told us. She said that it's managed as an afterthought. They should be scheduling the small class groups but the testing entity said to line them up so the school did. We'll pull her from the testing program if it takes an hour out of her already brief class time every week.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:08 am

Max Peck wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:06 am How does the rate of myocarditis caused by vaccination compare to the rate of myocarditis caused by SARS-CoV-2 infection?

No idea. IANAD, nor do I play one on TV.

I assume it’s higher, especially after receiving the first shot. Otherwise why would the ped. recommend waiting?

I raised it as a serious question because I'm fairly certain I read an article about the myocarditis side-effect where another doctor recommended vaccination because the chance of myocarditis (which is caused by viral infection) was higher if someone contracts COVID-19. However I don't remember where or when I read it, so I may be misremembering/misinterpreting the article.

Max Peck wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:39 am

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:08 am

Max Peck wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:06 am How does the rate of myocarditis caused by vaccination compare to the rate of myocarditis caused by SARS-CoV-2 infection?

No idea. IANAD, nor do I play one on TV.

I assume it’s higher, especially after receiving the first shot. Otherwise why would the ped. recommend waiting?

I raised it as a serious question because I'm fairly certain I read an article about the myocarditis side-effect where another doctor recommended vaccination because the chance of myocarditis (which is caused by viral infection) was higher if someone contracts COVID-19. However I don't remember where or when I read it, so I may be misremembering/misinterpreting the article.

I've seen the same in multiple pieces, but I also don't have the details (or the expertise to evaluate them). The takeaway that I've heard several times is that the risk of the vaccine even for this specific issue is far less than rolling the dice with COVID. Especially now that COVID is a 'when' not an 'if' for virtually everyone.

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Nov 16, 2021 5:30 pm ...and Michelle's mother was just admitted and tested positive in the process. She's right around 80, and was fully vaccinated early, was careful, and was smart. But this is Indiana, and smart has to come with lucky. We'll see how it goes.

Michelle (2 shots + booster) has been around her, so she was sent home from work (she works at the same hospital her mother went to.)

And the hospital isn't even bothering to test her. They just told her that since she isn't showing symptoms (24 hours after last exposure...) to come on back in.

She's leaving now to get tested elsewhere, because she's not an idiot.

Wife just got her booster shot. Now to see what kind of interesting things happen to her.

dbt1949 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:55 pm Wife just got her booster shot. Now to see what kind of interesting things happen to her.

I keep seeing really mixed reports. People saying that they had no notable response to the first two shots, but the booster is kicking their ass. Or the reverse - notable response to the first and/or second shot but the booster did nothing. Maybe some day they'll figure out what's up, but I personally wouldn't read into anything (did it work, is my immune system strong, etc...)

Glad to hear she received it, regardless. How's the trench and barbed-wire barrier coming to keep your SIL out?

What's the current wisdom on COVID protection and spaces? Michelle's mom is in the hospital for a while after her positive test, which means that we need to go over there to her apartment once per day to feed her cat and do a couple of other basic things. We're all two shots to the wind.

Are you asking if it's safe to be in her house? The first time I'd be going over there, I'd be masked up. Open all the windows for a bit - get some fresh air in there. I wouldn't be going into the house/apartment of someone that just tested positive without wearing a mask nor would I be hanging around random strangers indoors unmasked in any capacity.

Assuming she's stable and sent home, I wouldn't be going over to help out without being masked until she's cleared from having an active infection. If she wasn't opposed, I'd be looking to crack some windows too while I was there. In a perfect world she'd agree to wear a mask while you were there (even a basic surgical one), but in truth that's really only go likely help if she would randomly sneeze in your face. Her apartment would be filled (potentially) with viral particles from her just living in there 99% of the time unmasked and doing her thing - that's why cracking the windows and getting some fresh air in there would be important. If her apartment is like how I remember my grandparents (and sadly now my own parents), it's 75+ degrees with 28% humidity and stifling.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:58 pm

dbt1949 wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 1:55 pm Wife just got her booster shot. Now to see what kind of interesting things happen to her.

I keep seeing really mixed reports. People saying that they had no notable response to the first two shots, but the booster is kicking their ass. Or the reverse - notable response to the first and/or second shot but the booster did nothing. Maybe some day they'll figure out what's up, but I personally wouldn't read into anything (did it work, is my immune system strong, etc...)

Glad to hear she received it, regardless. How's the trench and barbed-wire barrier coming to keep your SIL out?

My booster gave me body aches and night shivers. That was the same for shot #2, Shot #1 if I recall, I just had some minor body aches and soreness around the site of injection.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:42 pm Are you asking if it's safe to be in her house? The first time I'd be going over there, I'd be masked up. Open all the windows for a bit - get some fresh air in there. I wouldn't be going into the house/apartment of someone that just tested positive without wearing a mask

that sounds like a minimum

nor would I be hanging around random strangers indoors unmasked in any capacity.

That sounds like what I would be doing no matter if someone tested positive. My coworkers want to do lunches and such. I did one around Olympics time and they wanted to lounge around after eating and the restaurant was packed and people were drinking and no one was masked and so when I was done I excused myself and went back to work. I haven't done a coworker lunch since. I've since loosened up going to restaurants a bit (I went right back to 0 after that experience) but basically I'll case a parking lot and reserve the right to not eat there. I've found that I can take a day off and eat lunch with my parents when some restaurants open. We get out before the lunch rush starts. We don't lounge. We don't drink. Not sure how that tradition will work now that it's cold and we can't lounge outside after eating.

Turkey Day is next week and mom wants to do a dinner for the first time since before Easter 2020. She doesn't know how to say no to the masses of her siblings and their families. I don't blame her. I don't know how to say no either. I'm likely to skip. Maybe I can arrange to come over on Friday for leftovers if they aerate the kitchen. I'ma pray for my mom's health cause that's all I can do. She's spending a lot of time in soup kitchens and she has family that are cavalier about COVID hygiene. It's going to be a long holiday season for me.

LordMortis wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:58 pm That sounds like what I would be doing no matter if someone tested positive.

Yeah, though I fully acknowledge my protocols aren't everyone's. My parents (mid-70s) were just boostered ~2 weeks ago but they had been randomly going to eat indoors at restaurants since May telling me "the restaurant is empty". My mom wanted us to come out with them for her birthday back in September; I refused as I do not accept the risk of being indoor and unasked with an airborne virus - even while vaccinated. The issue for me is that it's in high circulation right now and there's still people under the age of 5 that are ineligible.

I have not been in a restaurant since February of 2020; have not been in a supermarket since March of 2020. I have made short (~10 minute) trips into big box stores for random things, but always on off hours and always masked. We went to a baseball game (minor league) back in June and again in early August, and it was stressful - just being around that many unmasked people outdoors in potentially crowded environments (lines for bathrooms, lines for food). On the whole, it was not as enjoyable as it should have been.

It's going to be a long holiday season for me.

I'm not sure how I'd handle things if I had family members in mixed vaccination status as it really, really complicates everything. To be safest (and assuming there was easy access), doing a rapid test ahead of visitation would be the best. I know availability is mixed and tests are not cheap ($15 a pop for a 2 pack from Wal-Mart is the cheapest I've seen), which is unfortunate. My MIL has insisted she's coming to our house for Xmas this year and she has been vacationing and traveling non-stop since May of 2020 (yes you read that right). As a matter of fact, she told us she's going on an evening bus tour of Washington D.C. the week before she's coming to see us and I swear to Christ if she arrives here coughing and hacking, I might need to call someone for bail money.

Max Peck wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:39 am

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:08 am

Max Peck wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 11:06 am How does the rate of myocarditis caused by vaccination compare to the rate of myocarditis caused by SARS-CoV-2 infection?

No idea. IANAD, nor do I play one on TV.

I assume it’s higher, especially after receiving the first shot. Otherwise why would the ped. recommend waiting?

I raised it as a serious question because I'm fairly certain I read an article about the myocarditis side-effect where another doctor recommended vaccination because the chance of myocarditis (which is caused by viral infection) was higher if someone contracts COVID-19. However I don't remember where or when I read it, so I may be misremembering/misinterpreting the article.

Again, he's been vaccinated, so it's not really similar to that (which sounds like someone wondering whether they should get the vaccine or not based on a risk of getting this rare heart condition).

The question is: for someone specifically in this group, which is young males, does it make sense to push the date for the SECOND shot 6-8 weeks. My pediatrician says yes. I am sure there are arguments all over the place on that, but one thing you hear and read seemingly everywhere, consistently is "..BUT ASK YOUR DOCTOR IF X IS RIGHT FOR YOU"

I wonder why its young folk with the heart thing? I kinda thought about it but my first two went ok and Im old. Figure better to take the dice roll than get Covid.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 2:42 pm Are you asking if it's safe to be in her house? The first time I'd be going over there, I'd be masked up. Open all the windows for a bit - get some fresh air in there. I wouldn't be going into the house/apartment of someone that just tested positive without wearing a mask nor would I be hanging around random strangers indoors unmasked in any capacity.

Assuming she's stable and sent home, I wouldn't be going over to help out without being masked until she's cleared from having an active infection. If she wasn't opposed, I'd be looking to crack some windows too while I was there. In a perfect world she'd agree to wear a mask while you were there (even a basic surgical one), but in truth that's really only go likely help if she would randomly sneeze in your face. Her apartment would be filled (potentially) with viral particles from her just living in there 99% of the time unmasked and doing her thing - that's why cracking the windows and getting some fresh air in there would be important. If her apartment is like how I remember my grandparents (and sadly now my own parents), it's 75+ degrees with 28% humidity and stifling.

I was trained in biohazard exposure/containment years ago, and Michelle works in a hospital and is in and out of the COVID ward and rooms pretty much daily. PPE - both mask and gloves - are a given, including us knowing how to properly use them. Going over there will be minimal - one person in, throw food in the general direction of the cat, leave. Once she's released, contact would be limited to dropping off groceries and/or going in to deal with a specific issue and then leaving. Socialization can wait.

Daehawk wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:42 pm I wonder why its young folk with the heart thing?

It's so exceedingly rare I am not worried about it, but the answer seems to be: they don't know. And they don't know why it's mostly males, but they suspect it IS related to the mRNA mechanism (compared to "normal" vaccines), and likely related to something with hormones. Seems to be more prevalent with the Moderna vaccine than with Phizer/J&J.

From everything I've read, should not even be a determing factor for someone considering whether or not to get the vaccine, even in the 'target' demographic - it's that rare.

And FWIW, it seems to be of more interest to the scientific and medical community from a "this seems to be a weird (BUT RARE!!!) side effect of mRNA vaccines" perspective than a "why are so many young boys having heart issues after getting vaccinated?!" perspective. i.e. they want to know what's causing this because mRNA vaccines are very very likely the future of vaccinations, and if it's something they can tweak out, why not.

And thank you, thread, for making me spend way too much time reading up on that topic, when I had no intention of doing so, over something so super rare! and

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 5:31 pm

Daehawk wrote: Wed Nov 17, 2021 4:42 pm I wonder why its young folk with the heart thing?

It's so exceedingly rare I am not worried about it, but the answer seems to be: they don't know. And they don't know why it's mostly males, but they suspect it IS related to the mRNA mechanism (compared to "normal" vaccines), and likely related to something with hormones. Seems to be more prevalent with the Moderna vaccine than with Phizer/J&J.

From everything I've read, should not even be a determing factor for someone considering whether or not to get the vaccine, even in the 'target' demographic - it's that rare.

And FWIW, it seems to be of more interest to the scientific and medical community from a "this seems to be a weird (BUT RARE!!!) side effect of mRNA vaccines" perspective than a "why are so many young boys having heart issues after getting vaccinated?!" perspective. i.e. they want to know what's causing this because mRNA vaccines are very very likely the future of vaccinations, and if it's something they can tweak out, why not.

And thank you, thread, for making me spend way too much time reading up on that topic, when I had no intention of doing so, over something so super rare! and

It also resolves itself rather quickly from what I've read.

Got my booster yesterday (3rd Pfizer). Had to go in for my annual physical and they had some there so it was nice to knock that out at the same time.

Only real symptom I had was fatigue - by 9:00pm I couldn't hold my eyes open and I went to bed 2 hours early. Same thing happened when I got the first shots. Arm's slightly sore this morning but no worse than my flu shot.

Absolutely no noticeable symptoms from my third Moderna booster. Wait, if the third one is called a booster, what are we calling the second shot? I was calling THAT a booster.

I did have arm soreness, but I guess I don’t consider that a symptom specific to a Covid vaccine…more like a normal reaction to getting a big ass needle stuck in your arm.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:13 pm Absolutely no noticeable symptoms from my third Moderna booster. Wait, if the third one is called a booster, what are we calling the second shot? I was calling THAT a booster.

Give it time--eventually these will just be recognized as 3-dose vaccines, and none of what we've done thus far will be a 'booster.'

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:20 pm Give it time--eventually these will just be recognized as 3-dose vaccines, and none of what we've done thus far will be a 'booster.'

Correct. Moderna and Pfizer were always going to be a 3 shot series and it's clear J&J should have been at least two from the get-go.

Hopefully the data tells us that after 3 Modernas or Pfizers immunity is more durable and maybe we won't need to get another one (the actual booster) until Fall 2022. Hopefully. The experiment continues!

I’m looking fwd to them combining Covid vax in with flu shots. I think, hope, it will quiet down the…social unease about it. Normalize it a bit more I guess.

I think that ship has sailed. We're collectively in the insane asylum now. Next will be the response to mandating it for school children as part of the recommended series of childhood vaccinations.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:25 pm I’m looking fwd to them combining Covid vax in with flu shots. I think, hope, it will quiet down the…social unease about it. Normalize it a bit more I guess.

Or generate a new series of conspiracy theories, protests about not having choices, and a reduction in flu vaccinations.

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:33 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:25 pm I’m looking fwd to them combining Covid vax in with flu shots. I think, hope, it will quiet down the…social unease about it. Normalize it a bit more I guess.

Or generate a new series of conspiracy theories, protests about not having choices, and a reduction in flu vaccinations.

It's this one, isn't it? It's going to be this one.

Well, wife never complained of any side effects. Good.

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:33 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 1:25 pm I’m looking fwd to them combining Covid vax in with flu shots. I think, hope, it will quiet down the…social unease about it. Normalize it a bit more I guess.

Or generate a new series of conspiracy theories, protests about not having choices, and a reduction in flu vaccinations.

Shit.

Wife and I both tested negative, so that bullet was truly dodged.

We scheduled our boosters for next Friday. It's a few days less than six months after our second shot, but hope they'll overlook that. If not, we'll make new appointments a week or so later.

I shut down indoor dining again -- at least until we're fully boosted, and probably until next spring. We'll see what case numbers look like three weeks from now. If they're rising as expected post-thanksgiving, it will be another winter of takeout.

Glad to hear it. And yeah, change your plans (risk map at the bottom)

3,196 COVID-19 cases reported in Massachusetts today.

https://twitter.com/BioTurboNick/status ... 0967302146