Octopus Overlords

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:25 pm By the way, my method of coping is to focus on taking care of myself first so I can help others. Be that health wise, work wise, or financially. Whatever.

You know how when you fly they always tell you that if SHTF and you need oxygen masks to put yours on first and then help those around you; the kids, elderly, etc? Yeah, because if you don't, you start suffocating and they do too and then you can't help each other.

So that's my way of dealing with all this. I'm prepared as I can be, getting my shit done, and doing everything I can for now and then for my family/friends, and then worry about what comes next. Doesn't mean I won't get blindsided by a virus or a [n empty] bus but if I don't I can help someone else who did.

Yeah, that's been my prevailing mindset as well. One day at a time, do what I can to support my family, we'll get through this, etc. Been trying to keep my personal shit together, with varying degrees of success. Kids are starting to revolt somewhat to the idea of online homeschool, which is starting to make things difficult. Only a few weeks left...

Doesn't help that this whole thing has magnified some rather glaring professional weaknesses for me that are particularly unpleasant to face. Namely that I'm really good at this sales thing when I have opportunities to chase...and remarkably ineffective when things slow down and the phone doesn't ring.

I'll just keep telling myself that this level of introspection is a good thing.

/personal pity session off

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:33 pm November. November is when we determine whether / how fucked we are.

That's where I am, and it makes it so much harder. We're either permanently fucked right now or we're not, and there is absolutely no way to know which it is, despite predictions. Not knowing puts us in limbo. We're unable to respond to the current state because we're not sure if it is permanent or a hiccup, and we can't respond to the future state because we aren't sure it will come to pass. Our limbo is a place where we can't respond effectively at all because we're not sure what to respond to. We're stuck in neutral, and it is both anxiety inducing and infuriating. "Wait and see" is the only option, but it is "wait and see" while the house is on fire.

Barr just announced they are considering suing states with 'too strict' virus limitations in place. This is unbelievable. The level of malice here is off the charts. This really looks like a coordinated attack on the public's health for Trump's electoral benefit.

https://twitter.com/nycjim/status/1252643422583902210

US Attorney General says he’s considering legal action against governors who continue to impose stringent rules to deal with the pandemic.

malchior wrote:Barr just announced they are considering suing states with 'too strict' virus limitations in place. This is unbelievable. The level of malice here is off the charts. This really looks like a coordinated attack on the public's health for Trump's electoral benefit.

https://twitter.com/nycjim/status/1252643422583902210

US Attorney General says he’s considering legal action against governors who continue to impose stringent rules to deal with the pandemic.

Damn, perhaps we do need a revolution...

The interstate commerce clause needs to be gutted.

Let's see the Federalist spin itself to defend this bullshit.

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:50 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:33 pm November. November is when we determine whether / how fucked we are.

That's where I am, and it makes it so much harder. We're either permanently fucked right now or we're not, and there is absolutely no way to know which it is, despite predictions. Not knowing puts us in limbo. We're unable to respond to the current state because we're not sure if it is permanent or a hiccup, and we can't respond to the future state because we aren't sure it will come to pass. Our limbo is a place where we can't respond effectively at all because we're not sure what to respond to. We're stuck in neutral, and it is both anxiety inducing and infuriating. "Wait and see" is the only option, but it is "wait and see" while the house is on fire.

I feel the same way. Getting rid of Trump is a crucial first step, but it's only the first step on a long ladder. Consider: Besides getting past the plague and dysfunctional federal government, the planet is still warming, we're in a mass extinction, authoritarianism and anti-science are ascendant all over the world, inequality is at an all-time high, we're facing a potential depression, and there's no toilet paper.

Kraken wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:04 pmand there's no toilet paper.

malchior wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:57 pm Barr just announced they are considering suing states with 'too strict' virus limitations in place. This is unbelievable. The level of malice here is off the charts. This really looks like a coordinated attack on the public's health for Trump's electoral benefit.

https://twitter.com/nycjim/status/1252643422583902210

US Attorney General says he’s considering legal action against governors who continue to impose stringent rules to deal with the pandemic.

Wait...I thought Trump's whole position was "don't blame me, this is the states problem".

And didn’t, just days ago, Trump declare that he is going to “let” each state make their own calls?

I’m not surprised, but then how does the administration articulate these two positions. What the fuck is going on?

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:33 pm Biden wins, and the Senate flips? I'll get off the fainting couch and attempt something other than abject misery for another few years. Maybe a small glimmer of hope.

I have this feeling that Mitch will still find a way to bend us over.

Skinypupy wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:58 pmtoday is really the first day that the hopelessness has started to set in

Man, this is all of us. If we could do a big group hug I think we'd all benefit from it.

My wife has started slipping more down the rabbit hole. She's struggling with finding goals. She's into hiking, camping, and foot races. Those things have all been revoked. She's not seeing light at the end of the tunnel yet. She loves Animal Crossing, but it's not lifting her mood much anymore.

I keep saying that every day feels like a week, every week feels like a month. Time is moving SO SLOWLY. I'm hardly paying attention to real politics and it's just the watching of society that has engrossed my attention. My wife asked me if I was signing up for summer classes, which I should do, but I told her I hadn't even considered it yet; there was just too much else keeping my mind occupied. Classwork or more classes is just about dead last right now.

US Attorney General says he’s considering legal action against governors who continue to impose stringent rules to deal with the pandemic.

By the time this nonsense plays out and works it's way through all the layers of the court system, we should be safely into the middle of next year, right?

coopasonic wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:38 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:33 pm Biden wins, and the Senate flips? I'll get off the fainting couch and attempt something other than abject misery for another few years. Maybe a small glimmer of hope.

I have this feeling that Mitch will still find a way to bend us over.

Hey, I said a glimmer.

Unagi wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:33 pm And didn’t, just days ago, Trump declare that he is going to “let” each state make their own calls?

I’m not surprised, but then how does the administration articulate these two positions. What the fuck is going on?

This is Trump in a nutshell. He is chaos. They don't care about anything except keeping a monster's ego fed. And it is fed by praise and obeying whatever his 10 second attention span allows.

Unagi wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:33 pm And didn’t, just days ago, Trump declare that he is going to “let” each state make their own calls?

I’m not surprised, but then how does the administration articulate these two positions. What the fuck is going on?

You misunderstood. What he was saying is that all of the bad stuff is because of decisions by the governors, but all the good stuff is because of decisions by Trump.

I tend to be skeptical of Monday morning quarterbacking of Democratic leadership, but I honestly have no idea what they are doing on coronavirus relief efforts.

https://twitter.com/MikeGrunwald/status ... 3002411008

It's late afternoon Tuesday, so quarterback away. It sounds like a shitty deal, but we *are* talking about establishment democrats. Caving is kind of their thing.

Is it too late to apologize to the Queen and get her back?

Unagi wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:33 pm And didn’t, just days ago, Trump declare that he is going to “let” each state make their own calls?

I’m not surprised, but then how does the administration articulate these two positions. What the fuck is going on?

The thinking was that the Blue governors (and the Red ones that aren't anti-science) would hang themselves by killing their economies while the other states thrived. Now it's clear even to this administration that a) the economy is fucked regardless and b) opening up is probably a terrible idea. Mostly because of the complete failure of the federal government to handle this. So now the goal is to burn it all to the ground. It'll be hard to sort out blame since ashes are ashes. And what's the best way to get there? Force everyone to open up.

Paingod wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:39 pm
I keep saying that every day feels like a week, every week feels like a month.

I see that a lot, but for me it's really going quickly as one day slips into the next.

I personally have been feeling a bit better at work than I was at first. I haven't missed any time at my job (in a Home Depot in suburban Houston) since this all started. At first I was pretty sure that myself and half the people I work with would get Covid 19 soon. So far no one at work has gotten the virus (that we know about). Home Depot has given extra PTO and people have been calling out a lot. We are allowing (only 150) customers into the store at a time. Which feels too crowded to me when we are at/near the limit. Most employees and more than half the shoppers wear masks, some wear gloves (I haven't) and shoppers still get too close to me all the time.

I'm sure it is partially luck but I believe the social distancing/rigorous hand washing is helping. I think it might be ok in many areas to open up most retail. I still wouldn't open hair/nail salons, bars, movie theaters and concerts/sporting events but maybe most normal retail would be ok.

NickAragua wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:20 pm It's late afternoon Tuesday, so quarterback away. It sounds like a shitty deal, but we *are* talking about establishment democrats. Caving is kind of their thing.

Yeah there is a good record that they are just shitty at politics at a strategic level. Pelosi and Schumer have practically been invisible in this process and they pop out to say 'we agreed to just a little more looting but we promise this time small business will get help'. Bullshit. This system is completely corrupt and broken.

This will make for fun Q&A today.

https://twitter.com/jaketapper/status/1 ... 6073378818

Coronavirus Panel Recommends Against Use Of Hydroxychloroquine And Azithromycin : Coronavirus Live Updates

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:39 pm

Unagi wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:33 pm And didn’t, just days ago, Trump declare that he is going to “let” each state make their own calls?

I’m not surprised, but then how does the administration articulate these two positions. What the fuck is going on?

The thinking was that the Blue governors (and the Red ones that aren't anti-science) would hang themselves by killing their economies while the other states thrived. Now it's clear even to this administration that a) the economy is fucked regardless and b) opening up is probably a terrible idea. Mostly because of the complete failure of the federal government to handle this. So now the goal is to burn it all to the ground. It'll be hard to sort out blame since ashes are ashes. And what's the best way to get there? Force everyone to open up.

Trump cares not at all about people dying. Trump cares a lot about the economy going in the shitter, because that's going to make it harder for him to get reelected. Shutdowns help the former at the expense of the latter. So he wants to force everyone to reopen, because that at least might help the economy and thereby help him get reelected. If people die as a byproduct, who cares.

Yeah, when I try to think about this politically it doesn't make any sense. But when I switch the lens to money, suddenly everything comes into focus.

El Guapo wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:23 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:39 pm

Unagi wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:33 pm And didn’t, just days ago, Trump declare that he is going to “let” each state make their own calls?

I’m not surprised, but then how does the administration articulate these two positions. What the fuck is going on?

The thinking was that the Blue governors (and the Red ones that aren't anti-science) would hang themselves by killing their economies while the other states thrived. Now it's clear even to this administration that a) the economy is fucked regardless and b) opening up is probably a terrible idea. Mostly because of the complete failure of the federal government to handle this. So now the goal is to burn it all to the ground. It'll be hard to sort out blame since ashes are ashes. And what's the best way to get there? Force everyone to open up.

Trump cares not at all about people dying. Trump cares a lot about the economy going in the shitter, because that's going to make it harder for him to get reelected. Shutdowns help the former at the expense of the latter. So he wants to force everyone to reopen, because that at least might help the economy and thereby help him get reelected. If people die as a byproduct, who cares.

Well, yeah. But if people die (in large enough numbers), the economy still tanks. But hey, then no one is alive to notice or if they're alive they're too busy burying bodies. And you can probably suspend the vote at that point too. So a win. It's a no-lose scenario for Trump in which everyone loses. That's what I mean by burning it all down.

Pelosi is on tv right now talking about the events that led up to today and I'm not going to lie I can't figure out what the heck she is talking about. It isn't incoherent in the way Trump is. It is incoherent in the sense that there is no clear message. It is just a context-less explanation of the events that led to today.

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:33 pm Oh, and he'd almost certainly replace RBG, too.

And Breyer, who is 81. Plus Thomas would probably retire (replaced by Jared or Ben Shapiro or some other young dumbshit). We'd be fucked forever.

Biden wins, but the Senate stays as-is? Still fucked, as we'll have another 4 years of impotent response to climate change, and we really, truly are out of time on that front. But the country will likely meander along throughout Biden's term more or less as normal (just our kids and their kids who'll be the actually-fucked ones).

If nothing else, it gives us four years of a buffer while aging right-wingers die off. That's not enough, but it's something.

Biden wins, and the Senate flips? I'll get off the fainting couch and attempt something other than abject misery for another few years. Maybe a small glimmer of hope.

This is the only way I get to sleep at night and get out of bed in the morning.

Zaxxon wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 6:52 pm Colorado not going so far, but some things will re-open next week. The governor is still urging folks to stay home, but no longer requiring it.

https://coloradosun.com/2020/04/20/colo ... me-period/

Open 'er up. Just don't take off the blindfold first.

Percentages are relative to Colorado for deaths in a state and for number of tests in a state. For instance, Utah has tested 144% the number of people Colorado has (+44% if you want). They have 6% of the deaths of Colorado (-94%).

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:29 pm

El Guapo wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:23 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 4:39 pm

Unagi wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:33 pm And didn’t, just days ago, Trump declare that he is going to “let” each state make their own calls?

I’m not surprised, but then how does the administration articulate these two positions. What the fuck is going on?

The thinking was that the Blue governors (and the Red ones that aren't anti-science) would hang themselves by killing their economies while the other states thrived. Now it's clear even to this administration that a) the economy is fucked regardless and b) opening up is probably a terrible idea. Mostly because of the complete failure of the federal government to handle this. So now the goal is to burn it all to the ground. It'll be hard to sort out blame since ashes are ashes. And what's the best way to get there? Force everyone to open up.

Trump cares not at all about people dying. Trump cares a lot about the economy going in the shitter, because that's going to make it harder for him to get reelected. Shutdowns help the former at the expense of the latter. So he wants to force everyone to reopen, because that at least might help the economy and thereby help him get reelected. If people die as a byproduct, who cares.

Well, yeah. But if people die (in large enough numbers), the economy still tanks. But hey, then no one is alive to notice or if they're alive they're too busy burying bodies. And you can probably suspend the vote at that point too. So a win. It's a no-lose scenario for Trump in which everyone loses. That's what I mean by burning it all down.

He's probably screwed politically regardless, but if the economy opens, maybe he gets lucky - maybe there's more herd immunity than we think, maybe mild cases are a higher proportion, maybe some miracle cure works, who knows. But if the economy stays closed, he's screwed for sure.

El Guapo wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:56 pm

He's probably screwed politically regardless, but if the economy opens, maybe he gets lucky - maybe there's more herd immunity than we think, maybe mild cases are a higher proportion, maybe some miracle cure works, who knows. But if the economy stays closed, he's screwed for sure.

If he gets lucky, he can keep his base, which means we are right back where we started I guess. And where we started, he has a chance.

Mnuchin just announced the administration wants to practically bail out every industry including oil & gas, build out infrastructure, and cut taxes. What can go wrong? I also love how Republicans are Keynesian when they are in charge.

Holman wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:47 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:33 pm Biden wins, but the Senate stays as-is? Still fucked, as we'll have another 4 years of impotent response to climate change, and we really, truly are out of time on that front. But the country will likely meander along throughout Biden's term more or less as normal (just our kids and their kids who'll be the actually-fucked ones).

If nothing else, it gives us four years of a buffer while aging right-wingers die off. That's not enough, but it's something.

Also: Much of the damage Trump has done (gutting and defanging regulatory agencies, immigration) is through executive orders, and those can be undone. Other than tax giveaways, he accomplished nothing thru legislation. Biden won't, either, but there will be no money for any new initiatives anyway. And even though Moscow Mitch won't allow Biden to appoint any SCOTUS judges, at least they won't be able to install any more vultures -- they'll just leave seats vacant until they get another friendly POTUS.

Kraken wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:17 pm

Holman wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 5:47 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:33 pm Biden wins, but the Senate stays as-is? Still fucked, as we'll have another 4 years of impotent response to climate change, and we really, truly are out of time on that front. But the country will likely meander along throughout Biden's term more or less as normal (just our kids and their kids who'll be the actually-fucked ones).

If nothing else, it gives us four years of a buffer while aging right-wingers die off. That's not enough, but it's something.

Also: Much of the damage Trump has done (gutting and defanging regulatory agencies, immigration) is through executive orders, and those can be undone. Other than tax giveaways, he accomplished nothing thru legislation. Biden won't, either, but there will be no money for any new initiatives anyway. And even though Moscow Mitch won't allow Biden to appoint any SCOTUS judges, at least they won't be able to install any more vultures -- they'll just leave seats vacant until they get another friendly POTUS.

The big win that could (and I think probably would) happen if Biden wins the presidency and democrats flip the senate is voting protections. We can't easily undo the anti-democratic structure of the Senate, BUT legislation curtailing gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement would go a long way to ensuring that Republican shenanigans get duly punished at the polls.

El Guapo wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:26 pmThe big win that could (and I think probably would) happen if Biden wins the presidency and democrats flip the senate is voting protections. We can't easily undo the anti-democratic structure of the Senate, BUT legislation curtailing gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement would go a long way to ensuring that Republican shenanigans get duly punished at the polls.

It'll definitely help. They should be able to pass these enhancements plus election security and also provide incentives to states to build out vote by mail. Many red states won't necessarily take them up but better to get some improvement than none.

malchior wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:49 pm

El Guapo wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:26 pmThe big win that could (and I think probably would) happen if Biden wins the presidency and democrats flip the senate is voting protections. We can't easily undo the anti-democratic structure of the Senate, BUT legislation curtailing gerrymandering and voter disenfranchisement would go a long way to ensuring that Republican shenanigans get duly punished at the polls.

It'll definitely help. They should be able to pass these enhancements plus election security and also provide incentives to states to build out vote by mail. Many red states won't necessarily take them up but better to get some improvement than none.

Oh, and ideally they would also get DC and possibly Puerto Rico added as states.

This is embarrassing:

https://twitter.com/Popehat/status/1252612885731147776

I read the original article early on when there were a lot of disputes about the estimated covid-19 death toll. So a lawyer at the Hoover Institute wrote an article where he strongly disputed the CDC estimates. In his article he estimated the total US deaths at 500. A day or so later, he changed it and in a footnote said he was off a factor of 10 and said that this was an error, he meant 5,000. Fair enough, that seemed a reasonable explanation as the death toll at the time of the article was 592 so the error seemed obvious.

However, if you now look at the article, he says his original estimate was 5,000, which is tens time less than he meant it to be so his original estimate was 50,000. So the guy is trying to alter history, and retcon his original estimate. If the Hoover Institute wishes to maintain whatever credibility they have, he needs to face consequences for trying to falsify his article.

I remember when he was getting dunked on for the 500 estimate on Twitter. You really have to wonder why people think the Internet forgets.

Anti-malarial drug Trump touted is linked to higher rates of death in VA coronavirus patients, study says

An anti-malarial drug President Trump has aggressively promoted to treat covid-19 had no benefit and was linked to higher rates of death for Veterans Affairs patients hospitalized with the novel coronavirus, according to a study, raising further questions about the safety and efficacy of a treatment that has seen widespread use in the pandemic.

The study by VA and academic researchers analyzed outcomes of 368 male patients nationwide, with 97 receiving hydroxychloroquine, 113 receiving hydroxychloroquine in combination with the antibiotic azithromycin, and 158 not receiving any hydroxychloroquine.

Rates of death in the groups treated with the drugs were worse than those who did not receive the drugs, the study found. Rates of patients on ventilators were roughly equal, with no benefit demonstrated by the drugs.

So it was necessary to kill a few veterans to prove Trump is full of shit?