Octopus Overlords

Are the Clinton Body Count people going to apply their "expertise" to the fire and deaths a few days before this raid on Cohen's stuff? There were reams of burning paper falling out of windows of Trump Tower.

Trump has canceled his planned trip to South America.

Ostensibly it's to "focus" on Syria, but that seems... unlikely.

There's a lot of bleating going around on right wing conspiracy twitter that Mueller and Sessions are running a coup to take over the government, especially after yesterday's activities.

YellowKing wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:01 am

OK. That made me laugh.

KellyAnne Conway's husband (of all people) had a funny response to Trump's attorney-client privilege tweet.

https://twitter.com/gtconway3d/status/9 ... 2517075968

It was interesting to hear the two GOP congressman they had on NPR this morning (Gardner from CO was one, can't remember the other) talk about the FBI raid. Both of them were reserving any judgement or comment until more information came out, but were very adamant that all the proper authorizations and procedures were followed. They both absolutely downplayed the whole "witch hunt" angle that Trump is pushing.

We are so through the looking glass here.

pr0ner wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 9:43 am There's a lot of bleating going around on right wing conspiracy twitter that Mueller and Sessions are running a coup to take over the government, especially after yesterday's activities.

They'll probably also call the 2020 presidential election a coup attempt.

pr0ner wrote:There's a lot of bleating going around on right wing conspiracy twitter that Mueller and Sessions are running a coup to take over the government, especially after yesterday's activities.

It's really irritating that the "party of individual responsibility" does everything they can to deflect their own responsibility when it comes to stuff like this.

Also irritating that this is the same party that lambasted Hillary's claim of a "vast right-wing conspiracy," but seem perfectly content to accept an even larger "left-wing conspiracy." Hell, to buy into the right-wing pundit Kool-Aid, you have to believe it's not only a left-wing conspiracy, but a conspiracy among independent groups like the intelligence community AND Trump appointees! That's a hell of a coalition for the Illuminati to bring together.

Mr. Fed has an op-ed on this in the New York Times.

The Legal Pundit Formerly Known as Mr. Fed wrote:It’s easy to conclude that after so many bombshells, this is just another over-frantic news cycle. It’s not. It’s highly dangerous, and not just for Mr. Cohen. It’s perilous for the president, whose personal lawyer now may face a choice between going down fighting alone or saving his own skin by giving the wolves what they want.

And one big thing worth remembering: Cohen is not "Trump's attorney" in the way we usually think of someone having a lawyer to represent them.

He is a multi-millionaire real-estate developer in his own right, and he has been Trump's business partner (not the lawyer reviewing the contracts but an actual business partner) in numerous deals, including those that very likely involved money-laundering and overseas arrangements and Russian oligarchs and other shady characters.

All this has gone on for years and years. Cohen, more than anyone else, knows where the bodies are buried.

If the investigations flip Cohen, it's almost certainly over for the entire Trump family.

Don't tease.

YellowKing wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:12 pm I love the fact that Trump is being investigated on multiple fronts. Trump is the slipperiest of all treason-weasels, so trying to pin him down on one thing or another had a high chance of him puling some shenanigans to escape. As the charges pile up, however, it gets harder and harder to explain it all away as some witch hunt or left-wing conspiracy.

Isn't this the way this works with (compulsive or delusional) liars. The lies get bigger and more complex and then they come apart when a problematic loose end is pulled.

Assuming he is the conman we all believe him to be (except Rip) the question is what con is big enough to make his base fox news and/or a republican Congress turn on him. I don't think "obstruction" or "fraud" during the election or "accepting money from a foreign interest" is enough. It will be dismissed with "Clinton/Obama did" and the democrats will do anything to take your guns and steal your money. Long term tax fraud might. Money laundering should. A definitive line to Putin or his security forces ought to do it definitively.

My guess money laundering unto the point of racketeering. I can't see Mueller taking it seriously for anything less. Anything less, and it's why isn't Clinton in prison? while we pray that elections are still meaningful in the future. I can easily see Trump being Putin's stooge but I can't see Trump see being Putin's stooge and Putin leaving a paper trace.

Rip wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:23 am

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:14 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Apr 09, 2018 10:03 pm New report is that Mueller is looking into $150,000 the Trump Organization was paid for a 20 minute video speech by a Ukrainian billionaire. I suppose the question is whether Trump or his campaign promised anything in return.

We'll know for sure if we start hearing the rhetoric about Bill and/or Hillary's speeches ramping up.

Apparently Trump comes cheap. Victor Pinchuk gave $13M to the Clinton Foundation.

BUTWHATABOUT!!!???!!????

Holman wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:21 am And one big thing worth remembering: Cohen is not "Trump's attorney" in the way we usually think of someone having a lawyer to represent them.

He is a multi-millionaire real-estate developer in his own right, and he has been Trump's business partner (not the lawyer reviewing the contracts but an actual business partner) in numerous deals, including those that very likely involved money-laundering and overseas arrangements and Russian oligarchs and other shady characters.

All this has gone on for years and years. Cohen, more than anyone else, knows where the bodies are buried.

If the investigations flip Cohen, it's almost certainly over for the entire Trump family.

Give me a P...give me an A...give me a R, D. O, N! WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

$iljanus wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:56 am

Holman wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:21 am And one big thing worth remembering: Cohen is not "Trump's attorney" in the way we usually think of someone having a lawyer to represent them.

He is a multi-millionaire real-estate developer in his own right, and he has been Trump's business partner (not the lawyer reviewing the contracts but an actual business partner) in numerous deals, including those that very likely involved money-laundering and overseas arrangements and Russian oligarchs and other shady characters.

All this has gone on for years and years. Cohen, more than anyone else, knows where the bodies are buried.

If the investigations flip Cohen, it's almost certainly over for the entire Trump family.

Give me a P...give me an A...give me a R, D. O, N! WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

It spells “meaningless” for State charges was my understanding.

Remus West wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:44 am

$iljanus wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:56 am

Holman wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:21 am And one big thing worth remembering: Cohen is not "Trump's attorney" in the way we usually think of someone having a lawyer to represent them.

He is a multi-millionaire real-estate developer in his own right, and he has been Trump's business partner (not the lawyer reviewing the contracts but an actual business partner) in numerous deals, including those that very likely involved money-laundering and overseas arrangements and Russian oligarchs and other shady characters.

All this has gone on for years and years. Cohen, more than anyone else, knows where the bodies are buried.

If the investigations flip Cohen, it's almost certainly over for the entire Trump family.

Give me a P...give me an A...give me a R, D. O, N! WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

It spells “meaningless” for State charges was my understanding.

Isn't this federal though? It was led by a US Attorney and executed by the FBI.

I thought it spelled "BENGHAZI!1!!"

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:48 am

Remus West wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 11:44 am

$iljanus wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:56 am

Holman wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 10:21 am And one big thing worth remembering: Cohen is not "Trump's attorney" in the way we usually think of someone having a lawyer to represent them.

He is a multi-millionaire real-estate developer in his own right, and he has been Trump's business partner (not the lawyer reviewing the contracts but an actual business partner) in numerous deals, including those that very likely involved money-laundering and overseas arrangements and Russian oligarchs and other shady characters.

All this has gone on for years and years. Cohen, more than anyone else, knows where the bodies are buried.

If the investigations flip Cohen, it's almost certainly over for the entire Trump family.

Give me a P...give me an A...give me a R, D. O, N! WHAT'S THAT SPELL?

It spells “meaningless” for State charges was my understanding.

Isn't this federal though? It was led by a US Attorney and executed by the FBI.

I had thought I read they went through the NY attorney. Could be wrong.

Well, that's an interesting development.

https://twitter.com/jonkarl/status/983734168134864898

SCOOP: ABC News has learned Geoffrey Berman, the U.S. Attorney for the Southern District of New York, is recused from the Michael Cohen investigation. He had no role in raid of Cohen's office. Another recusal that will make @realDonaldTrump unhappy.

Also, NYT confirms they were looking for payments to women, and that it was personally approved by Rosenstein.

Can't remember if we knew either/both of these already, or just suspected.

I need some lawsplaining on why the Geoffrey Berman news is important.

Moliere wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:34 pm I need some lawsplaining on why the Geoffrey Berman news is important.

I don't know if it's important, or just interesting. Berman is the guy that Trump nominated to replace Preet Bharara. From Trump's perspective, his job was to quash this sort of thing.

Max Peck wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:40 pm

Moliere wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:34 pm I need some lawsplaining on why the Geoffrey Berman news is important.

I don't know if it's important, or just interesting. Berman is the guy that Trump nominated to replace Preet Bharara. From Trump's perspective, his job was to quash this sort of thing.

That was my take as well, with a side helping of him telling Trump:

Moliere wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:34 pm I need some lawsplaining on why the Geoffrey Berman news is important.

Berman's office is executing this raid on Trump's personal lawyer. Trump personally interviewed Berman, which was very unusual and a micro-scandal on its own. Trump did that because he wanted someone he personally vetted to prevent exactly what is happening right now. Berman is also a Trump supporter, so Trump can't yell Libs, Dems or Deep State at him. Well, he can, but this is the guy he handpicked!

And as we all know, Trump picks only the best, most intelligent and loyal people. Many people say this. The best! Like you wouldn't believe, believe me!

I wonder why Berman is recused, though. If he was picked to be Trump's man in the jurisdiction, it makes little sense that he would voluntarily step aside.

How'd it happen?

Perhaps he wasn't willing to sign off on it?

Max Peck wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:40 pm

Moliere wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 1:34 pm I need some lawsplaining on why the Geoffrey Berman news is important.

I don't know if it's important, or just interesting. Berman is the guy that Trump nominated to replace Preet Bharara. From Trump's perspective, his job was to quash this sort of thing.

It's also important per the above questions about state vs federal. This is 100% Federal currently (save for the Mueller team's data sharing with NY State prosecutors).

Holman wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:18 pm I wonder why Berman is recused, though. If he was picked to be Trump's man in the jurisdiction, it makes little sense that he would voluntarily step aside.

How'd it happen?

Perhaps he has ethics?

Speaking of recusal, I read last night that because the raid wasn't connected to Russia, Sessions' recusal didn't come into play. There's an unsubstantiated report that he knew this was coming, and could have stopped it, but found the evidence too overwhelming.

If true, wait til the boss finds out.

coopasonic wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:36 pm

Holman wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:18 pm I wonder why Berman is recused, though. If he was picked to be Trump's man in the jurisdiction, it makes little sense that he would voluntarily step aside.

How'd it happen?

Perhaps he has ethics?

tgb wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 2:42 pm Speaking of recusal, I read last night that because the raid wasn't connected to Russia, Sessions' recusal didn't come into play. There's an unsubstantiated report that he knew this was coming, and could have stopped it, but found the evidence too overwhelming.

If true, wait til the boss finds out.

This is absolutely true as far as I know. True in that the articles I've read state that this had to be signed off by multiple higher ups, including Sessions. It could still turn out to be false, but it doesn't seem like it.

Hopefully the Senate can get any Mueller protection bills going, because:

https://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status/983780451616743425

BREAKING: Sarah Sanders says the White House has been advised that the president has the authority to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

I have no faith that either house in Congress as they stand right now, would stand up to the president. My faith in checks and balances when things look bad enough has eroded over the last 18 months. I'd like to say I hope I'm wrong and news/social media/OO/whatever has colored my views, but that would require that faith thing. My faith is in Mueller. If he gets shit canned that''s the straw. Guilty or innocent, my hope lies with Mueller's investigation. Taking that away means going to the streets, I guess.

pr0ner wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 3:47 pm Hopefully the Senate can get any Mueller protection bills going, because:

https://twitter.com/AliVelshi/status/983780451616743425

BREAKING: Sarah Sanders says the White House has been advised that the president has the authority to fire Special Counsel Robert Mueller.

CNN:

President Donald Trump "believes he has the power to" fire special counsel Robert Mueller, White House press secretary Sarah Sanders said Tuesday.
"He certainly believes he has the power to do so," Sanders said when asked whether Trump believes he has that power....

..."We've been advised that the President certainly has the power to make that decision," she said, but did not elaborate further.

By whom? AFAIK he doesn't listen to advice

I have no doubt that Trump believes he has that authority.

Of course, he also believed he had a record crowd for his inauguration. That certainly didn't make it so.

Please, let's not start listing all the things Trump believes. I just ate lunch and would hate to have to see it again.

Honestly I would be shocked if he doesn't fire him at this point. And that will be the beginning of the end. He knows that he has a shit ton of shady deals and is probably pissing his pants at this point. Well pissing it for a second time.

Octavious wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:46 pm Honestly I would be shocked if he doesn't fire him at this point. And that will be the beginning of the end.

That would require Congress to display a spine that they have so far been completely unwilling to do.

I think there would be a significant public outcry and we'd see many of them "express concern", but I have very little confidence that anything would actually happen.

Skinypupy wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:49 pm

Octavious wrote: Tue Apr 10, 2018 4:46 pm Honestly I would be shocked if he doesn't fire him at this point. And that will be the beginning of the end.

That would require Congress to display a spine that they have so far been completely unwilling to do.

I think there would be a significant public outcry and we'd see many of them "express concern", but I have very little confidence that anything would actually happen.

I dunno. I've never been moved to join pubic protest and that's my line to join. I don't know what other people's lines are and what happens when they get crossed but It's rare that public protest doesn't turn ugly, which is a big reason I don't risk joining. I don't to be involved in events that turns into problems that purport to try and solve problems, but what choice do you have when the process of arbitration fails explicitly because the processes controller is also the on being investigated and is also the one who made if fail? That's end of line.

It's hilarious that a few days after once again going off about how reporters always use anonymous sources, Sanders quotes an anonymous source saying that the President can totes fire Mueller.