Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms

[Smoove_B]

Ha! That might have been one of the things out of print back in ~2018 when I first started looking into it. The enabler has been enabled! Thanks.

[Blackhawk]

I absolutely love this game. The game system, the genre, the minis.

If there is any doubt, check out the last few pages of the miniature painting thread.

The really nice thing is that it will handle almost any 'pulp' themed setting. 30s adventure, space pulp, early superheroes, old west, etc.

[Tao]

Anyone familiar with the Judgement Skirmish system? The developer currently has a KS going, Judgement: Eternal Champions, for V2.0 that I am really interested in but it's really expensive so was wondering if anyone here has experience playing?

[Isgrimnur]

[Tao]

The Witcher: Old World the board game Kickstarter campaign opened today. Seventeen days to go and already roughly 600% funded, closing in on the $2,000,000 mark. Turning in to an expensive summer.

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, feels like a lifetime ago I found out it was coming, but I don't think I'm going to back it. The art work and miniatures look fantastic, but it strikes me as a full-on PvP game. They say there's a solo mode, but haven't detailed it in any way, so I'm thinking it's going to be tacked on. As much as I love The Witcher and all things related, this game would get purchased and sit on my shelf untouched.

[hepcat]

The Witcher Adventure Game from FFG and Ignacy was pretty mediocre. This entry doesn't even have that level of talent behind it.

[Smoove_B]

One week ago FunAgain communicated they were "90% finished with shipping" for the Middara KS backers. As someone that hasn't received anything, you can understand my confusion that they could somehow ship 90% of the orders in 2 weeks but that final 10% is seemingly taking them another 6+ days. Well, thankfully Succubus just published an update that it's actually going to be another two weeks before KS backers are taken care of. So to clarify, that's a month (a month!) to ship out orders.

FunAgain is absolutely the worst. THE WORST

[YellowKing]

Yeah I was going to order the Middara player mats, but with their website saying those won't ship until after KS orders have been fulfilled, I may be done with the campaign by then.

[baelthazar]

Yeah I was going to order the Middara player mats, but with their website saying those won't ship until after KS orders have been fulfilled, I may be done with the campaign by then.

I was thinking of those too, but I haven't started the campaign. I wonder, however, if they make the footprint too large for my small table.

I am also confused about the Resin figures. They are $20 a pop (which is a little high) but are they actually different versions of the characters? If it adds more options, that sounds great. If they are just alternative sculpts, I am less interested.

[hepcat]

Yeah I was going to order the Middara player mats, but with their website saying those won't ship until after KS orders have been fulfilled, I may be done with the campaign by then.

Good lord, how far are you? I've put in about 8 hours and I'm only on about page 20 of 480 or so. This one is going to take a while.

[YellowKing]

I'm currently using 2 generic neoprene mats with 2 characters on each, but it's crowded. The Middara mats are the same length but about 3 inches shorter in height. I measured and I think my table could accommodate two mats side-by-side along the bottom edge, then two mats placed one above the other to the right of those. That should leave plenty of map area.

I just like the idea of having an organized play area for each character. While I've tried to keep some semblance of order, with no dedicated "slots" for anything it's difficult. Given that I'm REALLY enjoying the game and will almost assuredly be going all in on Acts 2 & 3, they seem like a sound investment.

As for the resin kits, my understanding is that they are alternative sculpts but also come with a couple of promo item cards.

[YellowKing]

Good lord, how far are you? I've put in about 8 hours and I'm only on about page 20 of 480 or so. This one is going to take a while.

I was exaggerating because I hear FunAgain is absolutely the worst. THE WORST.

I'm on page 60, the first main mission after your first Story Break section. I did a couple of side quests in there as well. I took a bit of a break this week as I'm trying to get some more painting done, but for a bit there I was knocking out at least 1 encounter a night.

[hepcat]

Nice. I'm going to get back into it this week.

[Smoove_B]

I was exaggerating because I hear FunAgain is absolutely the worst. THE WORST.

I now have two different KS projects that started shipping *after* Middara was started by FunAgain that will be in my hands before they can figure out how to get updated materials to me. That is embarrassing (Destinies and now Who Goes There, 2nd Edition - which I need to unload).

[Smoove_B]

Now I''m up to three KS projects that have shipped to me *after* Middara was announced to have started. I mean, really.

[hepcat]

Christ, have they given you an explanation as to why?

[Smoove_B]

Nope. They put out the email last week saying "two weeks remain for all shipments", which I was taking to mean they should have it shipped by Friday of this week. I hate FunAgain so much and if I was posting here using the same alias as my pledge, I'd think they were intentionally not shipping it.

So now I wait until this Friday and then I'd assume send a WTF email to all parties involved. I'm half expecting another KS update on Thursday saying "FunAgain is now reporting it will be another two weeks" or some other such nonsense.

EDIT: In looking at the KS comments, FunAgain actually has until the 6/15 to ship. What a joke.

[Zarathud]

Do you have a pledge confirmation or shipping notification?

EDIT: Or maybe you just won the pledge Rick-roll lottery?

[Holman]

Shipping notification tells me that my copy of OATH arrives tomorrow.

I need to get online and take a peek at the rules. Word on the street is that they're complicated.

[Zarathud]

The Law is 12 pages. The example of play book is 32 pages, and has a few pages highlighting "weird things" where Oath is different.

[Holman]

The Law is 12 pages. The example of play book is 32 pages, and has a few pages highlighting "weird things" where Oath is different.

I once spent three months reading 300 double-column small-print full-size pages of Advanced Squad Leader rules. I guess I can handle it.

[AWS260]

Oath is pretty hard to learn, in my opinion. The systems are offbeat and not particularly intuitive for the first couple of plays.

Take combat, for example. The attacker and defender both roll dice, but that's where the similarity stops. The attack and defense dice have different faces, the number of dice is determined differently for attacker and defender, and the warriors sent to battle have a different effect depending on if they're attacking or defending. Once you've got the system down, it works well and makes sense, but it takes a while to get there.

The game does a reasonable job of walking you through the rules, with a guided setup and one-round playthrough to demonstrate the major actions. Beyond that, I suggest checking out a tutorial video. I like this concise one - it's 22 minutes and doesn't cover every wrinkle, but it does a good job of showing the overall flow of the game.

[Holman]

I like this concise one - it's 22 minutes and doesn't cover every wrinkle, but it does a good job of showing the overall flow of the game.

Thanks!

I'm a dense-rules guy, but (aside from my 17yo) the rest of the family isn't.

[EzeKieL]

Ignore the spoiler, I just wanted to tag Lordnine ^^.

Found this on Etsy and thought you might appreciate it: https://tinyurl.com/55kep874 ^^.

Spoiler:

cardboard shortages

SHD Logistics, Feb 2021

A sudden shortage of cardboard is impacting on home deliveries. Some specialist sellers are unable to ship orders because of a lack of correct packaging. Corrugated cardboard has become so sought-after it is now being called ‘beige gold’.
...
ParcelHero’s Head of Consumer Research, David Jinks MILT, explains: “The Confederation of Paper Industries (CPI) says demand for cardboard boxes from online retailers is five years ahead of pre-pandemic levels. On top of this increased demand, lockdown means packaging is taking longer to be recycled because shops and restaurants, when they are open, recycle more quickly than domestic users. Add to the mix packaging being stockpiled in warehouses because of Brexit, and there’s little wonder there is a severe shortage.

Cardboard shortages are wrecking production costs as well. I received a quote a few days ago for my new game and was told costs on all whiteboard components are up between 20-30% based on the quantity and quality. I was planning to do a DinoGenics reprint this year as well but that just isn't possible in the current climate. My margins on DG can not survive a 30% price increase.

[Lordnine]

Hah, apparently I have inspired many creators. This is still the coolest thing I've seen for my game though. https://www.etsy.com/listing/952062261/ ... ome_feat_4

[Blackhawk]

Hah, apparently I have inspired many creators. This is still the coolest thing I've seen for my game though. https://www.etsy.com/listing/952062261/ ... ome_feat_4

That's the guy who I brought my mounted paint racks from. I was very, very happy with the product and service I received.

[Smoove_B]

State of the Union from Quackalope

[baelthazar]

State of the Union from Quackalope

This is a great video by a good voice in the community (although he got me to buy Root right before the App came out, which I wish I hadn't, and almost had me buy Oath, which I can't solo ). I am currently watching the situation with Tanares: Adventures + Arena: The Contest. They were supposed to be scheduled on a boat for early June, but they haven't updated since. I suspect the shipping company is trying to gouge them, despite them having a plan already and were in the queue months ago.

We all have to remember, this is just a hobby and games are a luxury product. Kickstarter is not a store - it is an investment - and we can't expect return on the investment (e.g. delivery) to be as regular or predictable as buying from a retailer. I see comments from people acting like these delays are on crucial goods and services, posting comments that are aggressive and offensive. It just doesn't make sense.

[Smoove_B]

I'm also a backer of Tanares and waiting, mainly so I can resell. I have a spreadsheet I use to keep track of my KS projects and anything I preorder and the last ~12 months have just been me shuffling delivery dates forward 3 or 6 months as they come due. I know so much of it sounds like "end of days" discussions, but I honestly don't know how big box / big mini games are realistically going to be made or shipped in the way we've grown accustomed to over the last 5+ years. It really could be that the sun is setting on the Golden Age of the hobby.

It's definitely given me lots to think about in terms of backing games. While there were never guarantees, it seems like the variables just made things much, much worse.

If you go to his FB page and read through the post he's mentioned, it really is a wealth of information. I genuinely feel for publishers and creators right now.

[baelthazar]

I've seen a lot of "death of the hobby" talk ever since I started board gaming as a kid back in the 80s. I think, at least immediately, there will be a slowdown in big-box, mini-heavy games (one could argue that "big box" has been going away anyway for the for smaller core boxes + release day expansions model anyway). But with people routinely plunking down $200-400 on Kickstarter to get massive numbers of minis and loads of boxes, I don't think this is a death knell. It MAY be a death knell for small publishers wanting to do mini-heavy games, which will mean that the big names like Awaken Realms, CMON, and Black List (who started small but seem to be bigger now), are going to be the next round of "veteran publishers" like FFG, Avalon Hill, TSR, Hasbro, etc. were in our youth.

A good case in point is GW's The Cursed City. That game released with a retail cost of $199 and sold out almost immediately. It has about 1/3rd the content of Altar Quest or something similar. Yes, I know that is the Games Workshop markup and it has a dedicated (if not insane) fan-base, but there is no way a game like that should have that cost. Still, people bought it.

Freight trouble is likely temporary. But we may see the landscape change. I do think we are going to see a LOT more card-based games in the near future, or potentially a shift to high-quality standees (which is cool).

I am certainly more concerned about stuff like Hoplomachus Victorum, Dungeon Universalis (although limited minis probably helps), among others that I recently backed.

[Smoove_B]

A good case in point is GW's The Cursed City. That game released with a retail cost of $199 and sold out almost immediately. It has about 1/3rd the content of Altar Quest or something similar. Yes, I know that is the Games Workshop markup and it has a dedicated (if not insane) fan-base, but there is no way a game like that should have that cost. Still, people bought it.

My understanding is that (1) it was a limited print run and (2) it's never going to be reprinted. More and more I hear the argument that GW is a miniatures company and not a board gaming company and I think when they do stuff like what happened with The Cursed City, it's probably leaning true.

Either way, I do think domestic reselling of used games is likely going to get bigger as prices of new games possibly increase and the new board game market shrinks. I also think the miniature-heavy games are going to shrink. At some point domestic printing of cards and materials is going to be cheaper, though in terms of quality I've yet to see a domestic-sourced board game that's close to what's coming from overseas. If material costs increase, it's anyone guess if domestic printing will ever be viable, regardless.

Very strange times all around.

[Isgrimnur]

More and more I hear the argument that GW is a miniatures company and not a board gaming company and I think when they do stuff like what happened with The Cursed City, it's probably leaning true.

HALF-YEARLY REPORT (PDF)

Our strategy has not changed - we continue to make the best miniatures in the world in ever increasing volumes and to engage and inspire our customers new and old.

[YellowKing]

I'm a big proponent of the move from minis to high quality standees. As much as I love painting minis, there are a lot of downsides. They greatly inflate costs, they take up a ton of space in the box, and they can be a source of intimidation for people who don't want to paint or don't have the resources to get started in that side of the hobby. I spent arguably the most number of hours on any boardgame EVER with Gloomhaven - literally hundreds of hours - and never once lamented that the monsters were cardboard standees. If the game is good enough, and the components are at some minimum threshold of quality, then it doesn't matter.

In brighter news, I added the premium Hero mat to my Hoplomachus: Victorum pledge (tracking hero status on paper is for peasants) and splurged on the premium health chips. I'd been wanting the health chips for awhile and figured it was worth getting them now while shipping was flat. I can let them pull double duty with Too Many Bones.

[Fishbelly]

In brighter news, I added the premium Hero mat to my Hoplomachus: Victorum pledge (tracking hero status on paper is for peasants) and splurged on the premium health chips. I'd been wanting the health chips for awhile and figured it was worth getting them now while shipping was flat. I can let them pull double duty with Too Many Bones.

I also just added those two items to my Hoplomachus: Victorum order.

The hero tracker was a no-brainer, as everything else is neoprene mats and the paper tracker looks out of place.

I already have the premium health chips for TMB--which I also use use with Cloudspire--and they were one of my favorite add-ons to the original TMB. The light plastic health chips just don't "feel right". I quite like the look of the chips for Hoplo, and of course the TMB chips aren't red/blue, so I went against my inner-cheapskate and added them.

[Holman]

At some point soon, won't the consumer's access to home (or nearby) 3D printing eliminate the need for creation and shipping from abroad? Rather than ordering games to be created and shipped from China, you'll be given a code for creation at whatever site you choose.

[Isgrimnur]

We need miniature distribution networks like we have for internet content.

[baelthazar]

My understanding is that (1) it was a limited print run and (2) it's never going to be reprinted. More and more I hear the argument that GW is a miniatures company and not a board gaming company and I think when they do stuff like what happened with The Cursed City, it's probably leaning true.

GW is 100% a minis company. Some could argue that the rules for the games are just tacked on to make the minis practical!

Either way, I do think domestic reselling of used games is likely going to get bigger as prices of new games possibly increase and the new board game market shrinks.

This is partly the reason I am tempted to buy Swords & Sorcery: Ancient Chronicles at a FLGS. I have tons of dungeon crawls, so I don't need another, but the S&S line has been pretty consistently selling out and going into long reprints, shooting the resell value up pretty high. So I suspect I could get it, play it, then resell it for around what I paid. But that seems silly, given my limited time available for solo gaming.

I was pleased to see that Succubus Games uses a Utah-based company for their resin minis. They cost way more than they should, IMHO (or, I guess comparable to GW minis) but if that market expanded, then the costs would go down some.

Part of the reason I went pretty all in on Lasting Tales (minis rules and large mini dump from Black List Games) is to have minis that are agnostic of my fantasy games. I could use them for Dungeon Universalis (the initial plan) but also any game that has standees that I could sub out. I love minis, but would be perfectly happy with standees and the occasional subbed in minis for some games.

[Blackhawk]

Games Workshop is unique. Their business model isn't isn't miniatures or board games. Their business model is fan culture. And I'm not saying that with snark. If their business model was based on their miniatures, they'd go under in a year.

[Jeff V]

Dungeon Party is apparently coming along. I do have a friendship with the developer, but there's a chance it could make an appearance at a future Octocon once they resume (preferable with the developer doing the demo).