Octopus Overlords

Boredom will not be in my future. Securing a job for health care purposes might be (I hope not). For now and what I assume are at least the next 18 months, nope. We'll see what inflation and a tanked stock market look like in 18 months as well as how the ACA/medicaid work, presuming if I don't qualify for one then I qualify for the other. That will remain a mystery for some time to come. ACA resources don't seem to want to give the reality of your situation until you are applying for coverage. That anxiety is now pushed off for a good while to come.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:23 am ACA resources don't seem to want to give the reality of your situation until you are applying for coverage.

https://www.healthcare.gov/see-plans/#/


Premiums and details will change from year to year but that can give you a pretty good idea of pricing.

Thank you!

That is better than that exact same site was in September when I started my diligence. (And the plans are completely different) It even allows me to search for Doctors in the plans and meds. Literally none of the plans cover infliximab, so that is going to be something my GI doctors have to figure out.

Oh mannnn, my new bank manager job has gone to SHIT.

So, there's one specific teller who I warned about repeatedly when I started. She wanted the job I got, and she was a tough one to deal with. Right off the bat, she was argumentative with me and refused to work with me.

Fast forward a few months of clashes, and then reconciliations and we're here: The market president came in and noticed that her and one other unvaccinated person were not wearing masks, so he talked to them. They both assumed that I ratted them out, which I didn't. Now they're also claiming that I said that I had "hatred in my heart" for unvaccinated people, something which I have NEVER said. That's not even a phrase I use.

The problem is that the managers are believing her over me, and so now I have to defend my reputation on top of everything. I'm taking the day off today (it had been planned for a while) but I think I'm going to need to have a LOOOOOOONG conversation with HR. I don't feel safe here anymore.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:30 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:23 am ACA resources don't seem to want to give the reality of your situation until you are applying for coverage.

https://www.healthcare.gov/see-plans/#/


Premiums and details will change from year to year but that can give you a pretty good idea of pricing.

I was curious so took a look. I was pushed to the NJ tool and entered data assuming I as the primary HC provider was shit canned and we had to survive on only her salary. It spit out results that were 15% of the *gross* after the subsidy. That seems totally reasonable.

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:50 am Oh mannnn, my new bank manager job has gone to SHIT.

So, there's one specific teller who I warned about repeatedly when I started. She wanted the job I got, and she was a tough one to deal with. Right off the bat, she was argumentative with me and refused to work with me.

Fast forward a few months of clashes, and then reconciliations and we're here: The market president came in and noticed that her and one other unvaccinated person were not wearing masks, so he talked to them. They both assumed that I ratted them out, which I didn't. Now they're also claiming that I said that I had "hatred in my heart" for unvaccinated people, something which I have NEVER said. That's not even a phrase I use.

The problem is that the managers are believing her over me, and so now I have to defend my reputation on top of everything. I'm taking the day off today (it had been planned for a while) but I think I'm going to need to have a LOOOOOOONG conversation with HR. I don't feel safe here anymore.

This type of situation always sucks. Did you report any of these issues up the chain prior to this?

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:47 am Thank you!

That is better than that exact same site was in September when I started my diligence. (And the plans are completely different) It even allows me to search for Doctors in the plans and meds. Literally none of the plans cover infliximab, so that is going to be something my GI doctors have to figure out.

https://www.janssencarepath.com/patient ... st-support

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 11:07 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:47 am Thank you!

That is better than that exact same site was in September when I started my diligence. (And the plans are completely different) It even allows me to search for Doctors in the plans and meds. Literally none of the plans cover infliximab, so that is going to be something my GI doctors have to figure out.

https://www.janssencarepath.com/patient ... st-support

Already enrolled but they will only do so much. It's a bridge I'll have to burn as I approach it. Especially as things may change year after year.

malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:56 am This type of situation always sucks. Did you report any of these issues up the chain prior to this?

I did, but I feel like I'm going to have to file another report.

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 1:48 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:56 am This type of situation always sucks. Did you report any of these issues up the chain prior to this?

I did, but I feel like I'm going to have to file another report.

That's good. IMO this is always very important. You unfortunately have to (out)think about these sort of petty attacks. It sucks to not have the "big boss" backing you but that's why it is important to always have insurance.

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 1:48 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:56 am This type of situation always sucks. Did you report any of these issues up the chain prior to this?

I did, but I feel like I'm going to have to file another report.

Can you reach out to the market president and let them know you're getting shit for the dressing down they did? I mean not to go around the chain of command but because the president would know the accusations being made against you aren't valid. Or maybe suggest that someone reach out?

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 2:26 pm

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 1:48 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:56 am This type of situation always sucks. Did you report any of these issues up the chain prior to this?

I did, but I feel like I'm going to have to file another report.

Can you reach out to the market president and let them know you're getting shit for the dressing down they did? I mean not to go around the chain of command but because the president would know the accusations being made against you aren't valid. Or maybe suggest that someone reach out?

This is a good suggestion. Reporting up that the ranking pointy head saw the behavior is good ass covering. Especially when it lines up with a previous report.

malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 3:04 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 2:26 pm

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 1:48 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Fri May 13, 2022 10:56 am This type of situation always sucks. Did you report any of these issues up the chain prior to this?

I did, but I feel like I'm going to have to file another report.

Can you reach out to the market president and let them know you're getting shit for the dressing down they did? I mean not to go around the chain of command but because the president would know the accusations being made against you aren't valid. Or maybe suggest that someone reach out?

This is a good suggestion. Reporting up that the ranking pointy head saw the behavior is good ass covering. Especially when it lines up with a previous report.

I'm confused - you're the manager; can't you fire the problem person? Toxic people are a cancer and will eat your team apart slowly; this is something I've learned after years of leadership roles. There are people that will have diminished performance due to legitimate personal issues (Hell I sure did when my wife was fighting cancer, my boss had my back and I still text him after I moved on, only boss that I really gave a shit about) - but people like this that lie, connive and backstab? Fucking fire them stat.

Also HR is not your friend, it's your tool - refer back to the previous documented performance issues and ask HR to move forward with termination. You don't have to defend anything if you have this behaviour logged; that's how your conversation should go with HR "Yeah ok, more of the same behaviour out of this person. Let's cut bait on her and get a job posting out there".

FishPants wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 10:26 am
I'm confused - you're the manager; can't you fire the problem person? Toxic people are a cancer and will eat your team apart slowly; this is something I've learned after years of leadership roles. There are people that will have diminished performance due to legitimate personal issues (Hell I sure did when my wife was fighting cancer, my boss had my back and I still text him after I moved on, only boss that I really gave a shit about) - but people like this that lie, connive and backstab? Fucking fire them stat.

Not always. First of all, you need to document all transgressions, interactions, and attempts to correct the problem within the framework established by the company. And then there are mitigating factors -- I had a person like that on my team once, she was a "diversity hire" and not our first choice of candidate. Turns out she was really quick to play the race card, insisted she was given more work than anyone else (we had metrics that proved otherwise), terrorized an intern to the point of tears, terrorized a an executive support guy to the point of tears (I was okay with that one, he was a bad hire and if she knew he was making 50% more than she was the hellfire would still be going on). It took a long time since I got to an uneasy truce with her. She liked my counterpart better, and in my last two years there we swapped places and she discovered it wasn't a match made in heaven. She wound up getting spooked by the slaughter that ended my job and left for greener pastures. The thing is, when she wasn't off her nut ranting about things that were all in her imagination -- we were almost friends.

Anyway, it all comes down to documenting transgression against company policy. Few companies will act against a person for merely being an asshat, no matter how toxic they are to their coworkers. I can't explain why -- most states employment is "at will" and anyone can, at any time, be told to GTFO for no reason whatsoever. There is, though, a potential cost as doing so will increase the rate of your unemployment insurance. Fire someone for cause? Great, they can't claim unemployment then and it's not an issue.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:04 pm The thing is, when she wasn't off her nut ranting about things that were all in her imagination -- we were almost friends.

We're not racist, you're just a paranoid ass. That's why nobody likes you.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:04 pm
Anyway, it all comes down to documenting transgression against company policy. Few companies will act against a person for merely being an asshat, no matter how toxic they are to their coworkers. I can't explain why -- most states employment is "at will" and anyone can, at any time, be told to GTFO for no reason whatsoever. There is, though, a potential cost as doing so will increase the rate of your unemployment insurance. Fire someone for cause? Great, they can't claim unemployment then and it's not an issue.

Sounds like the documentation is there; and I've worked for a lot of US companies - at will is used plenty, much more than my socialist Canadian ass cared to see actually. In this case? Fired.

I'm also not clear on why you kept her if she was terrorizing the team and generating all kinds of bullshit drama? Her skin colour has nothing to do with it, you can fire people for any reason even in Canada - the variable is how much you have to pay them to leave (and it's always worth it). I've been down the "we can coach this behaviour out of Toxic Employee A" - it just doesn't work. Lean in - don't avoid!

FishPants wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:39 pm, you can fire people for any reason even in Canada

If my research is correct, it looks like the last time anyone was ever fired in Canada was in 1938. And they ended up hiring them back because they felt badly about it.

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 8:02 pm

FishPants wrote: ↑Sun May 15, 2022 7:39 pm, you can fire people for any reason even in Canada

If my research is correct, it looks like the last time anyone was ever fired in Canada was in 1938. And they ended up hiring them back because they felt badly about it.

The laws here are slightly warped, in that while you can theoretically fire them for almost any reason (there are very few untouchable reasons), if you have an employee handbook that spells out guidelines of expect behavior and such, then you're fucked. You are legally bound to follow whatever poorly written policy your HR department might have concocted after heavy night of drinking. This is where the liability trap lies, and why so few companies are inclined to test it out in a court of law.

And it just gets dicier when it comes to unemployment. A ding against your experience rating can cost a company big time, as the percentage they need to pay affects their nationwide operation federally, for that employee, also state (which can be more volatile), and in some areas (like Ohio), locally. Unemployment challenges are handled in arbitration, so even a doofus like me stands a chance of winning against a team of corporate attorneys (this doofus speaks from experience).

Well, here's what ended up happening. I had a big meeting on Monday with the market president and it was nearly a BLOODBATH. What my staff did was take a lot of what I said out of context and then pretend to be really upset about it. Now, I want to stress: I've managed staffs (staves?) before, and never had this kind of problem. No one has ever accused me of being inappropriate or mean.

At this point, though, the president doesn't know me from Adam. He's hearing multiple people saying that I'm rude and don't show up to work on time and all sorts of other things. He asks me, "Are you willing to put in the work to fix this?"

I tell him, "Look, when I applied here, I wanted to be a banker. I was given this position instead, and I want to stress that I'll do this one as best as I can. I'll give everything I have to make things work." He starts asking me about what I did as a banker, and I started to tell him all about my successes as a banker and the things that I'm passionate about, and he finally says, "Here's the problem: We have you in the wrong role. I have another branch that needs a banker. Do you want to meet them?"

So I met them on Monday, they offered me the gig, and now I'm taking it. I'm getting a 10% pay raise plus a MUCH better bonus structure. Meanwhile, I can still see what my staff is doing and the answer is "a lot of nothing." It's clear that they didn't like me because I was trying to hold them to expectations and they didn't want that. No skin off my nose anymore.

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 2:13 pm Well, here's what ended up happening. I had a big meeting on Monday with the market president and it was nearly a BLOODBATH. What my staff did was take a lot of what I said out of context and then pretend to be really upset about it. Now, I want to stress: I've managed staffs (staves?) before, and never had this kind of problem. No one has ever accused me of being inappropriate or mean.

At this point, though, the president doesn't know me from Adam. He's hearing multiple people saying that I'm rude and don't show up to work on time and all sorts of other things. He asks me, "Are you willing to put in the work to fix this?"

I tell him, "Look, when I applied here, I wanted to be a banker. I was given this position instead, and I want to stress that I'll do this one as best as I can. I'll give everything I have to make things work." He starts asking me about what I did as a banker, and I started to tell him all about my successes as a banker and the things that I'm passionate about, and he finally says, "Here's the problem: We have you in the wrong role. I have another branch that needs a banker. Do you want to meet them?"

So I met them on Monday, they offered me the gig, and now I'm taking it. I'm getting a 10% pay raise plus a MUCH better bonus structure. Meanwhile, I can still see what my staff is doing and the answer is "a lot of nothing." It's clear that they didn't like me because I was trying to hold them to expectations and they didn't want that. No skin off my nose anymore.

I'm a bit confused probably because of titles. You weren't a 'banker' last week? What were you? And how will 'banker' be different?

More importantly, congrats! Sounds like things worked out fabulously for you. I was honestly already saying to myself "this is not going to end well for him" when I first started reading about your issues. Thank goodness that your president was savvy enough to make that call, too. That could have gone SO differently with a lesser...leader.

Congrats!


Sounds like a smart market president. Defused the situation, filled an opening, and only has find someone for an easier to fill position.

Last week I was a service manager at a bank. Now I'm back to doing actual banking, lending, etc

And if you do well in the new banker role, he knows the truth of the current situation.

By the way, I am seeing terrible customer service at retail banks. That is a no-win role.

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 2:52 pm Last week I was a service manager at a bank. Now I'm back to doing actual banking, lending, etc

So you're the one who gets to say, "request denied."

When I worked for the Tribune Credit Union, one of the people on the loan committee (those from Chicago might remember Kathy O'Malley - she was a columnist for the newspaper, had a radio show on WGN and a TV show on CLTV) once asked a customer, "why do you need a car? You can just take the bus!" and then denied the request for an auto loan.

Holy crap, that's heartless.

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 2:52 pm Last week I was a service manager at a bank. Now I'm back to doing actual banking, lending, etc

New Monocle and Derby Day!

Default wrote: ↑Sat May 21, 2022 8:03 pm

Eel Snave wrote: ↑Thu May 19, 2022 2:52 pm Last week I was a service manager at a bank. Now I'm back to doing actual banking, lending, etc

New Monocle and Derby Day!

It pays the bills! For a guy like me with no college education where my only skills are talking to people, I do all right.

I just got a call from one of my clients. It appears one of my off-hand comments in a high-level meeting spurred real change at a very large hi-tech company. The genesis was a discussion related that one of the things that frustrates me about what I do - cybersecurity strategy. That is I keep seeing consistent underinvestment and inadequate spending on cybersecurity staff and staff development.

To get to the meat of it, I did a quick study and build out of a strategic roadmap for improving their cybersecurity posture late last year. I subsequently went a little further and synced up all their existing initiatives into a master roadmap for an overlap of IT and IT Security. One of my notes on a briefing slide was an assumption that they had far less cybersecurity staff than required and it was impacting risk management. One of the big poohbahs jumped on that line and we got into a discussion.

During that discussion I posed a broad question - do you have a rough idea of the spend for your physical security? (Acting like a lawyer I knew this since I reviewed the budget at one point). He accurately ballparked it as 2.5-3x the cyber security spend. I asked how often do you have someone physically breaking in to a facility, stealing data, or seen physical threats impact production. His response was maybe a handful of times a year. I then asked How many times does it happen remotely or via computer? He thought it was less. I said, no it is nearly daily. As an aside, I sort of saw it as burning both the CIO and CISO. I mean I don't know what they are communicating up but the rampant amount of cyber security incidents they both were dealing with seems...pertinent. Anyway, I didn't know how else to get this message across. The CIO and CISO didn't seem to notice or care so ... alright.

I quoting some stats I had compiled said they had phishing clicks at least once a day (again large org). I also told him that he had support personnel rebuilding computers routinely. I wasn't delivering news but I also related they definitely had people in the organization stealing proprietary data. And I capped it by saying they had limited ability to see or stop these problems.

We moved on and I just hoped maybe it'd be internalized a little during budget season. Instead, the CISO called me to say that person took it very seriously and mulled it over for weeks before deciding we needed to have a discussion about how to balance it. My idea is that I'm going to suggest strategic risk management as a role and practice. Maybe not a Chief Risk Officer but something equivalent dotted line to the big Boss and helping to balance the physical and cybersecurity pieces. In any case, it's always pretty cool when I end up getting an aircraft carrier to make a quick turn.

I told all of the bosses this morning that I need help to complete all of my assignments. They all just looked at the table, then suggested maybe the new hire could help me.
She seems nice, but I it's literally her 6th day of work in her professional career. I'm tired of this shit.

Make them prioritize the list.

Archinerd wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 2:19 pm I told all of the bosses this morning that I need help to complete all of my assignments. They all just looked at the table, then suggested maybe the new hire could help me.
She seems nice, but I it's literally her 6th day of work in her professional career. I'm tired of this shit.

I'm sure you're aware of the "triple constraints" -- on time, feature complete, on budget. Generally you get to pick two. Sounds like you're giving up the "on time" portion Which is common.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 2:33 pm Make them prioritize the list.

I wish it were all that simple.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 9:55 pm

Archinerd wrote: ↑Mon May 23, 2022 2:19 pm I told all of the bosses this morning that I need help to complete all of my assignments. They all just looked at the table, then suggested maybe the new hire could help me.
She seems nice, but I it's literally her 6th day of work in her professional career. I'm tired of this shit.

I'm sure you're aware of the "triple constraints" -- on time, feature complete, on budget. Generally you get to pick two. Sounds like you're giving up the "on time" portion Which is common.

They will be lucky to get 1 out of 3.
The time line is non-negotiable. Not hitting it risks ruining a long relationship with a well known Fortune 100 company.
So it's going to be quality. Which also risks annoying the same company.
And reduced quality, means there will be errors and ommissions. Those will cost money to correct, so it won't be on budget either.
I'm paid salary so nobody cares how much I work.

I brought this all up to two of the bosses again this morning. They said things like, "you might have to put in some extra hours" and "if you train the new hire to do some of these, she will be more helpful in the future."

I already gave up my spring break vacation this year, and have been working extra hours for four months. Also, my boss is leaving on vacation next week.
Fuck this shit.

Thanks and sorry, I just need to vent.

Sounds like a resume-generating event.

That's what I'm thinking.

Archinerd wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:05 pm I may need to find a new job. The stress form mine has contributed to giving me GERD, which I think is basically an ulcer heading toward the input instead of the output.

Don't sacrifice your health for a company that won't help you when you ask for it.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 12:20 pm Sounds like a resume-generating event.

Seconded. Especially in this market.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 12:33 pm

Archinerd wrote: ↑Mon Apr 18, 2022 3:05 pm I may need to find a new job. The stress form mine has contributed to giving me GERD, which I think is basically an ulcer heading toward the input instead of the output.

Don't sacrifice your health for a company that won't help you when you ask for it.

Q.F.T.

Because jobs in your pay grade are so easy to find. Stick it out and get ulcers. That's what insurance is for.

Archinerd wrote: ↑Tue May 24, 2022 12:13 pm They will be lucky to get 1 out of 3.
The time line is non-negotiable. Not hitting it risks ruining a long relationship with a well known Fortune 100 company.
So it's going to be quality. Which also risks annoying the same company.
And reduced quality, means there will be errors and ommissions. Those will cost money to correct, so it won't be on budget either.
I'm paid salary so nobody cares how much I work.

I brought this all up to two of the bosses again this morning. They said things like, "you might have to put in some extra hours" and "if you train the new hire to do some of these, she will be more helpful in the future."

I already gave up my spring break vacation this year, and have been working extra hours for four months. Also, my boss is leaving on vacation next week.
Fuck this shit.

Thanks and sorry, I just need to vent.

I liked the the people I reported to but their response to me was the same as yours. My health went to crap but I was not a healthy person to begin with and my headspace has long since been broken. Do you. It's hard advice to take. My best to you and yours.

Sometimes it's amazing to me how people who run companies are just... bad at business.

I found out yesterday that one of our clients doesn't answer his business phone. We just spent the better part of the last year on a campaign to get potential clients to call him, and those calls were just... not answered.

My wife's company is also horrible. She works at a veterinarian's office, and the facility is run by the lead vet and an office manager. One of the receptionists found out she is by far the lowest-paid employee, so she asked for a raise. From what my wife said, she is an excellent receptionist who the lead vet has been training to try and make her a vet tech (which in the eyes of management is a promotion). The lead vet was about to go away on vacation, and they were relying on her to help out in the back while he is gone.

Not only did they deny her a raise, but they told her to her face that she isn't "valuable enough" to justify the raise.

So she of course went out and immediately got another job paying much more than what she was asking for. And the vet's office is adamant that they will not replace her, putting more strain on the remaining receptionists.