Octopus Overlords

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 7:47 am I'm a week into my current play, first since the last major release. I'm really enjoying the newer visuals and revamped research tree, but I'm a little miffed that all of those machine gun turrets I threw around like candy are no longer used up in Military research. Walls? Really?

Also, there's an absurd focus on regular Engines as they're now a raw ingredient for research, yet are produced at a snail's pace.

I've finally achieved "Logistics" last night and tore down my entire base to rebuild it. I reached a point of unsustainable mess just as I rolled into the Manufacturing (purple) research, so it's overdue. I have four satellite bases producing oil, oil, stone, and iron to ship home and need to set up a Copper mine finally as my initial vein has just 20k left in it. Having little interest in balancing nuclear energy, I outfit each satellite with solar arrays around the perimeter and have 36MW of power output from just my panels at peak daylight (almost the equivalent of one Reactor). My boilers are on standby and ready to add another 36MW in a pinch and fill in the gaps in a spike.

I've reached the point now where I usually struggle - moving from "single input" of each resource to "multiple inputs". Having just one belt of Iron and Copper coming in looks really slick, but the reality is that it has a cap. As such, I'm planning to try and make multiple smaller satellites that all handle different productions with similar needs, sending the resulting goods back "home" to my main base for final processing into research and further production. It's going to take more railway planning than I've ever done. Same for Logistics. I've only ever done basic Requester/Passive Provider logistics and need to go beyond that to expand.

I have beaten the game before with my antiquated methods, but producing a single rocket is a massive undertaking that requires several minutes of waiting and watching.

Sounds like you have some good plans - good luck with the rebuild!

I'm still playing the same game I mentioned above. I'm up to 20 reactors in 2 installations of 5x2. I only use about half of my power output at the moment, but that can spike with my walls get assaulted and my lasers start going off. That is pretty rare though - I've pushed my walls out far enough that pollution doesn't come anywhere close to them. A nuclear powered train driving from one end of my base to the other takes 3 minutes in a straight line with nothing else on the tracks to slow it down. I think that is the biggest reason to go the nuclear route - yeah, the energy is cheap and constant, but the boost to vehicle speeds is enormous!

I've launched 39 rockets. My current science bottleneck is Blue Science because of the engines. Before working on that, though, I'm expanding my Red Circuit production. I survived on 50 yellow factories for way too long. My first step was to expand copper coil production - 400 yellow factories later, I'm in good position there (although they chew through a ton of copper - gonna have to expand copper plating soon). Next is a massive Green Circuit expansion and then I can finally get the Red Circuits built out. Incidentally, I'm strictly logistic robot based for these places. I have 4600 robots in the copper coil area alone - it's a thing of beauty when a copper train arrives at the same time a train rolls out with a full load of coils. The SWARM!

Edit: Only 400 factories, not 4000.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:27 amI'm up to 20 reactors in 2 installations of 5x2.

That's a staggering amount of power, honestly - for me at least. My little 60MW production must seem quaint.

At what point do you abandon belts and just go for logistics bots? It'd make planning a helluva lot easier. Instead of looping this and that and tying a twist in the line to satisfy the other, you just dump a big pile of resources into a pot and let the bots sort it out. If you slow down, add more bots, right?

4000 Tier 1 factories creating just copper wire? Holy crickets, man. That's nuts.

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:41 am

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:27 amI'm up to 20 reactors in 2 installations of 5x2.

That's a staggering amount of power, honestly - for me at least. My little 60MW production must seem quaint.

Not at all. I still have 2/3 of my solar installation up so I remember it's usefulness quite well. I'm slowly expanding in that direction, though, so it won't be up for too much longer. Oh, and did I mention that when I hooked up my first 5x2 installation, the steam engines producing the power were split on each side of my reactors. The problem was I only connected one side to my power grid - the other side only connected to itself. It took me FOREVER to figure out why I kept getting blackouts at half my rated power output.

At what point do you abandon belts and just go for logistics bots? It'd make planning a helluva lot easier. Instead of looping this and that and tying a twist in the line to satisfy the other, you just dump a big pile of resources into a pot and let the bots sort it out. If you slow down, add more bots, right?

You have to have the bots available to make it happen. For me it was a slower changeover - I started stockpiling bots while I worked on the science to increase their speed and carrying capacity. Once I had those researched, I had enough stockpiled to begin. The tough part is that the engines they need for flight are also needed for science. You have to make A LOT of engines.

4000 Tier 1 factories creating just copper wire? Holy crickets, man. That's nuts.

Hahaha, that's a typo. A mere 400.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:50 amHahaha, that's a typo. A mere 400.

Still. I've only got maybe 8 copper wire factories, and all of them feed directly into the buildings that need them.

So you've still got me beat by 50x...

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 10:19 am

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 9:50 amHahaha, that's a typo. A mere 400.

Still. I've only got maybe 8 copper wire factories, and all of them feed directly into the buildings that need them.

So you've still got me beat by 50x...

In fairness, I can't use everything it produces at full output. Nor can I keep it fully supplied if it was running full out. Yet...

Out of curiosity, do you prefer to smelt into sheets at the point of mining, before loading on the train, or when it comes off the train?

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:32 am Out of curiosity, do you prefer to smelt into sheets at the point of mining, before loading on the train, or when it comes off the train?

Ore compresses 2-to-1 if you smelt at site.

The Meal wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:34 am

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 11:32 am Out of curiosity, do you prefer to smelt into sheets at the point of mining, before loading on the train, or when it comes off the train?

Ore compresses 2-to-1 if you smelt at site.

Okay. I've been smelting before loading and hadn't even considered the space difference.

I've got 10 copper mines and 10 iron mines running right now. I ship the ore to a common site (one each for iron and copper) and then ship the plates from there. My trains are 8 cars long plus an engine. A Smelter setup has 8 lines of blue belts with (I think) 27 electric ovens on each side of each belt (I'll have to check tonight to be sure). I have five Smelter setups running - two for Copper, two for Iron, and one for Steel. My train yard into each site could be improved, but it's working for now, so it's low on the list.

I like having a common smelt point as it's easier to setup and break down ore deposits as they are mined out.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:27 pmMy trains are 8 cars long plus an engine.

Hol' up here. 8 cars?

I haven't been thinking outside the box with my trains. All of the pictures and videos I've seen online had trains with 3 or fewer cars, and the rail stop shows white outlines for 4 cars. I naturally assumed 4 was the limit. This changes things a little for me. I've been fighting to make a 4-car train efficient when it could be an 8-car train?

My stone and iron stops right now share a common train and track. I've been hustling my ass over to the stone quarry from time to time to manually collect bricks and raw stone. Turns out I can just ship walls, stone, and bricks in three cars and still have 5 for metals?



I was going to put a second synchronized train on the track to handle the rest - you know, each on 30 second timers, and as long as I never fiddle with it they should never collide.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:27 pmI like having a common smelt point as it's easier to setup and break down ore deposits as they are mined out.

Absolutely this. I was working on making a common metal input for my main manufacturing base so I could swap out the tracks as I needed to - but having a singular depot for smelting ores or even just aggregating smelted metal from other locations would be tremendous, instead of juggling five inbound trains at my main base. I don't mind running long power lines to remote locations to power Electric Smelters at each site that mines, but I suppose there's some repetition in tearing that down and rebuilding it every time I open a new mine.

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:46 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:27 pmMy trains are 8 cars long plus an engine.

Hol' up here. 8 cars?

I haven't been thinking outside the box with my trains. All of the pictures and videos I've seen online had trains with 3 or fewer cars, and the rail stop shows white outlines for 4 cars. I naturally assumed 4 was the limit. This changes things a little for me. I've been fighting to make a 4-car train efficient when it could be an 8-car train?

My stone and iron stops right now share a common train and track. I've been hustling my ass over to the stone quarry from time to time to manually collect bricks and raw stone. Turns out I can just ship walls, stone, and bricks in three cars and still have 5 for metals?

Just so you know, 8 is not the limit. I don't think there is a limit. My building train (the one I take when I'm building a new site or expanding the walls) is 15 cars long and has a little of everything.

Did you know you can change those default white lines for the train? It's one of the options under Settings. I think it defaults to 4 car trains.

Did you know you can specify what goes in each rail car by using the middle mouse button? Click a slot in the rail car with the button and then choose an item. That item and only that item will go in that slot. You can do that for a whole car so if it stops at a different depot, it won't get mixed inventory.

I was going to put a second synchronized train on the track to handle the rest - you know, each on 30 second timers, and as long as I never fiddle with it they should never collide.

I used to do this, but found the two track system so much more efficient that I never bothered with single tracks outside of the first time I expand to a new ore deposit. Also, I don't use timers except in rare circumstances - my trains move when they are full (or empty). If I need more of something and there is no train coming, I just open up a new mine or whatever.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:58 pmJust so you know, 8 is not the limit. I don't think there is a limit. My building train (the one I take when I'm building a new site or expanding the walls) is 15 cars long and has a little of everything.

Wow. I never considered a "Building Train" - I simply tore down my whole base and stuffed it into steel chests in a safe corner to redeploy it as I rebuilt. It's weird to see a weeks' "work" stuffed into 15 boxes. Do you ride along in the train slowly and have it lay its own tracks as it goes or something? It sounds like it would be less efficient than packing a tank with all the essentials... or maybe you need to go a LOT further out than I do right now.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:58 pmDid you know you can change those default white lines for the train? It's one of the options under Settings. I think it defaults to 4 car trains.

If I knew that I wouldn't have limited myself to 4 cars!

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:58 pmDid you know you can specify what goes in each rail car by using the middle mouse button? Click a slot in the rail car with the button and then choose an item. That item and only that item will go in that slot. You can do that for a whole car so if it stops at a different depot, it won't get mixed inventory.

I did not. This changes my thoughts quite a bit. I never knew you could split it up. Again, I only ever saw people using whole cars for one material and assumed it was built that way. A single "box" to stuff items in.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 12:58 pm

I was going to put a second synchronized train on the track to handle the rest - you know, each on 30 second timers, and as long as I never fiddle with it they should never collide.

I used to do this, but found the two track system so much more efficient that I never bothered with single tracks outside of the first time I expand to a new ore deposit. Also, I don't use timers except in rare circumstances - my trains move when they are full. If I need more of something and there is no train coming, I just open up a new mine or whatever.

What's the "Two Track System"? I'm assuming this is maybe a pair of tracks running in parallel that use crossovers at certain points so trains can switch tracks and slide past each other?

My railways currently are either big single-track loops (like a big circle with three stops) or a single line that has a loop-back (a small circle) at either end to send the train back where it came from.

Also, you can put more than one locomotive on the head (or head-and-tail, if you like them double-headed) of a train to get it moving faster.

I prefer 1-4 (locomotive-wagons) trains because I like to have lots of trains buzzing about. But 2-8 (or even bigger) are also very workable.

I'm going to need a bigger base now.

I went out looking for info on trains and kind of fell into a little rabbit hole.

This guy uses "City Blocks" - 100x100 grids - as custom blueprints to ramp up quickly when he adds something. The symmetry and ability in his design is, frankly, beautiful. It looks like a perfect circuit. I hadn't considered Factorio from that aspect. I've got a few microchip dies I smuggled out of a factory once and the microscopic layers of processes look a lot like his super-massive factory when he zooms out. He does say he's using a "Logistics Train Mod" that simplifies his integrated blocks.



I've been experimenting personally with trying to make Roboport-centric blueprints for logistics ease and reproduction of sections, but my experiments were all with single Roboports as single "blocks" - his are all quad ports forming one block. As a small-time builder right now, I'm going to keep exploring my single-purpose, single-port segments. I simply don't have the resources yet to go to a 2x2 port grid per segment. I only just hit being able to mass-produce Roboports.

His master class vids are pretty decent, but his lets plays tend to be him plopping down blueprints.

His city block idea is pretty cool, but tends to monkey with the idea of running trains. If you've got roboports everywhere, having outpost train stations is a lot less appealing. I like having outposts with their own logistical network, then using build trains to expand from those local areas. Katherine of Skye has videos that show this off (though a smaller channel I watch, Kitch, does it better, though he's currently MIA with a terribly sick child).

I learned a lot watching Katherine of Sky's videos. My one complaint is she doesn't believe in buffers. Buffers are great.

Also, I don't try to min/max everything. I'm happy if it's close and things keep running. If my layout isn't ideal or tile-able, I don't lose sleep over it.

I'm still very much in a phase where land is at a premium, though I've started making enough walls that I may actually be able to connect my satellite bases to my main base and completely enclose the trains. While I think his city blocks look cool, the space they take up is simply unsustainable for me at this stage. I'm going to be very focused on logistics robots for a while now and re-orienting my base to specialized segments that feed other segments instead of a huge hodge-podge.

Last night I spent some time letting pollution cool down after I ripped everything apart. I rode around and wiped a large number of biter bases and found some places that were pleasant dead-ends or choke points where I no longer have to worry about threats as long as I wall them off soon.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:29 pm I learned a lot watching Katherine of Sky's videos. My one complaint is she doesn't believe in buffers. Buffers are great.

Also, I don't try to min/max everything. I'm happy if it's close and things keep running. If my layout isn't ideal or tile-able, I don't lose sleep over it.

Those two things go together. She is optimizing so that buffers simply aren't necessary. Why make more of a thing than you need?

For the record, I am on the side of buffers myself because I cant be bothered to plan that well. I also have (several thousand) fewer hours in the game than either of you.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:04 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:29 pm I learned a lot watching Katherine of Sky's videos. My one complaint is she doesn't believe in buffers. Buffers are great.

Also, I don't try to min/max everything. I'm happy if it's close and things keep running. If my layout isn't ideal or tile-able, I don't lose sleep over it.

Those two things go together. She is optimizing so that buffers simply aren't necessary. Why make more of a thing than you need?

Because I can't be everywhere at once? A buffer gives you time to notice a problem before it becomes critical. When her ideal system breaks, you're dead in the water.

Paingod wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:55 pm I'm still very much in a phase where land is at a premium, though I've started making enough walls that I may actually be able to connect my satellite bases to my main base and completely enclose the trains. While I think his city blocks look cool, the space they take up is simply unsustainable for me at this stage. I'm going to be very focused on logistics robots for a while now and re-orienting my base to specialized segments that feed other segments instead of a huge hodge-podge.

Last night I spent some time letting pollution cool down after I ripped everything apart. I rode around and wiped a large number of biter bases and found some places that were pleasant dead-ends or choke points where I no longer have to worry about threats as long as I wall them off soon.

Ah yeah, a lot of what I'm talking about comes into play after I have personal roboport Mk 2 and 75 personal bots to build stuff for me. With where you are at, what you're doing sounds very reasonable. You're just bootstrapping to get to the next research (more or less). If you do a lot of planning, you might be able to reuse some of what you make now - but also likely not.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:26 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:04 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:29 pm I learned a lot watching Katherine of Sky's videos. My one complaint is she doesn't believe in buffers. Buffers are great.

Also, I don't try to min/max everything. I'm happy if it's close and things keep running. If my layout isn't ideal or tile-able, I don't lose sleep over it.

Those two things go together. She is optimizing so that buffers simply aren't necessary. Why make more of a thing than you need?

Because I can't be everywhere at once? A buffer gives you time to notice a problem before it becomes critical. When her ideal system breaks, you're dead in the water.

Way back when, when there was were only 3 types of research and the game kinda sorted ended when you launched a rocket, batteries were my bane until I set up a buffer. something would hiccup for second and this absolutely massive supply chain would lurch to a stop and take a long time to get back in synch.

It's long past time for me to pick this up again. I tried maybe six months ago, maybe a year. Who knows what time is any more? The game had scenarios and a whole menu of custom settings and I was already a bit intimidated before I even started trying to get my electric stations up and going.

Two years?

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:48 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:26 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:04 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 2:29 pm I learned a lot watching Katherine of Sky's videos. My one complaint is she doesn't believe in buffers. Buffers are great.

Also, I don't try to min/max everything. I'm happy if it's close and things keep running. If my layout isn't ideal or tile-able, I don't lose sleep over it.

Those two things go together. She is optimizing so that buffers simply aren't necessary. Why make more of a thing than you need?

Because I can't be everywhere at once? A buffer gives you time to notice a problem before it becomes critical. When her ideal system breaks, you're dead in the water.

Way back when, when there was were only 3 types of research and the game kinda sorted ended when you launched a rocket, batteries were my bane until I set up a buffer. something would hiccup for second and this absolutely massive supply chain would lurch to a stop and take a long time to get back in synch.

It's long past time for me to pick this up again. I tried maybe six months ago, maybe a year. Who knows what time is any more? The game had scenarios and a whole menu of custom settings and I was already a bit intimidated before I even started trying to get my electric stations up and going.

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 10:23 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri Jun 08, 2018 9:47 am

stessier wrote: ↑Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:02 am And I finished the game! It took a mere 84:12:11. That is all playtime - no letting it run while I did other things. I think there might be room for me to improve. Just knowing what builds what will almost certainly make me faster in the next game.

Overall, I have 104 hours in the game so even if I never touch it again, I've certainly gotten my money's worth.

Back when there were only three types of research, I wasn't interested in what was then "the finish" I was interested in how far you could take get the game to play to play itself.

Getting back in "the Campaign" it looks like they ratcheted up the your need to defend yourself *a lot*. The icon remains on my desktop but with a very active enemy it's not a relaxing as it once way. I used to lose myself problem solving, something I love to do, defense is an inconvenient distraction.

The campaign is much more biter intensive than the game itself. In the game, you can modify the biter level from peaceful to killer (my levels, not the real names). There is also a toggle for them respawning their nests to having nests permanently gone after you take them out.

Two years? Crazy. How am I not retired yet?

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 4:00 pm Two years? Crazy. How am I not retired yet?

Incidentally, you can set it to Peaceful where the biters don't attack unless you attack them first and they don't expand. You can build right up next to them and they just wander around. You'll still need to clear them out to free up land, but it's not a big deal as it happens on your schedule.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Oct 13, 2020 3:34 pmAh yeah, a lot of what I'm talking about comes into play after I have personal roboport Mk 2 and 75 personal bots to build stuff for me. With where you are at, what you're doing sounds very reasonable. You're just bootstrapping to get to the next research (more or less). If you do a lot of planning, you might be able to reuse some of what you make now - but also likely not.

Last night, instead of rebuilding my factory, I tooled around in my Tank and cleared out vast swaths of land. On four land bridges I erected massive 2x walls with a total of 175 laser turrets spread out between them. I am running around in top-tier Power Armor with 2 Mk2 Personal Roboports on me, with 50 Construction drones. This land grab also swallowed up maybe 30m in Iron, 12m in Copper, and 3m in stone for future use without needing to worry about defending it. It's a weird feeling to think I could simply plunk down mining ops without worrying about defending them.

Since biters only seem to attack when polluted, I think I've effectively created a buffer zone for the time being. The turrets are mostly to stop expansion movement and not determined assaults (they're spread out so four cover each other continuously along the entire wall). I've never done this before and am curious to see how it plays out with them (please don't spoil my surprise if they're going to overrun me!).

To power that malarkey I set up a happy, clean grid of solar panels and accumulators - 750 panels, 630 accumulators. The blueprint for each node in the grid is a perfect 25 panels to 21 accumulators around a single substation with medium poles on the outer edges for connectivity. There are three spaces between each, facilitating either future Roboports or simple vehicle traffic. It's a 6x5 grid right now, 45MW of potential power and is located in the dead center of the space I cleared. I plan to clear more to the north and west before I start up production again, so that'll become the southeast corner.

I did find that as I travelled further from home, the biter nests became MUCH larger. Ridiculously so. Before continuing South or East, I'm going to want to start trailing a line of power behind me to run a makeshift laser grid that I pull up and re-use to clear each one ... or get Artillery going. I don't have it researched, but I get the need now.

So, tonight I'll be clearing North and West a bit... then maybe by the end of the night I'll start up on my railways at each mining op and send them to a central processing center away from all biter activity. Maybe I'll even start producing something, probably with a focus on turrets and panels/accumulators first to give myself a more robust defense before turning the sky black with soot again.

Last night's restructuring went well. All I managed to put together were the remaining walls and fired up my iron mine & smelter. I opted for the large ore processing center instead of putting together a series of mines with smelters built in. I like the concept of simply redirecting more ore into a processing center instead of trying to tie in mines to my manufacturing lines.

My original design was 1 engine, 7 cars - and belts feeding from those down into a block of smelters that pumped out a huge stream of iron plates. I discovered, though, that I overestimated my mines - and unless I was willing to condense them to try and mine faster, I only needed 4 cars of ore coming in and 4 cars of plates going out. I left the remaining belting in place, though, as a reminder that my smelting facility was only running at about 1/4 capacity. All I need to do to process more is to add back in the missing smelters, chests, inserters and railcars. As I add ore stops to the track I'll add cars, and as I add cars I'll add smelters. It should allow for smooth growth.

As it stands I'm producing more iron than I did before - but have no facilities to use it yet. Next up I need to pull out a copper mine and smelting process - which should be smooth as silk now that I've gotten the prototype built and running.

I can see now how valuable blueprints genuinely are. I used to simply build little stamps to speed up deployment of specific things, like a solar array. Now if I need to shift a massive structure block I just blueprint it, pull it down, and stick it back up... and then later I can re-use the same blueprint to recreate it elsewhere. My "massive" (for me) smelting operation should be simple to clone.

I've got close to 300k in oil just sitting in storage tanks, so that angle is a lower priority. I'm planning, though, on making a liquids and gas processing facility - like my smelters. It'll pump out barrels of every useful fluid, and those barrels can be carried by logistics bots to precisely where I need them without dealing with pipes everywhere.

On the security front my expansion went swimmingly, though I ran out of laser turrets. I've carved out a massive town-sized chunk of land that my pollution doesn't extend beyond. In some places on the border I simply have naked walls. Getting turrets up is my next big priority once I get manufacturing going again. Through the entire 4 hours of play I only had one small incursion attempt at a wall and it was beaten back by the defenses.

One big question I have for myself is if I want to go with railcars that move backwards and forwards or just forwards. I don't mind creating loops to circle them back and have moved to a dual-track system to facilitate traffic flow. Having trains going backwards seems efficient, but complicates rail design. It's the sort of thing that I would likely want if I was using a Logistics Trains mod, I think, but is maybe less valuable if I'm simply doing straight-up programmed supply runs.

I'm not at a place where I'm ready to start a "city block" style design, though. I currently have far more land than I need for the processes I'm building and don't mind some inefficiency in travel times. I am intent, though, on creating specialized processing centers for each raw material and shipping the refined goods to a series of specialized manufacturing facilities... like one that just makes green microchips. Another that makes red. Another that makes blue. All working independently from each other so they don't choke on each other. Same for engines, belts, rails, etc. Then I'll have a hub where science packs are made, and a second hub for facilities I intend to use to expand.

It's the most ambitious I've ever been with the game and it sounds like it'll be fun.

Paingod wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:02 am I've got close to 300k in oil just sitting in storage tanks, so that angle is a lower priority. I'm planning, though, on making a liquids and gas processing facility - like my smelters. It'll pump out barrels of every useful fluid, and those barrels can be carried by logistics bots to precisely where I need them without dealing with pipes everywhere.

Let me know how this goes. I've never barreled anything and wonder if it is worth trying to set up.

I finally got my Green Circuit dedicated production center set up. It's only working at half capacity, but even that is a lot of circuits. I'm going through and removing all the places I was making green circuits on site and putting in logistics to pull from the big supply instead. After I remove all that, I have to re-route some trains and then I should be at full capacity. Really need more bots to make it work, though. I'm at 7k and all are busy even at half capacity.

stessier wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:48 am

Paingod wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:02 am I've got close to 300k in oil just sitting in storage tanks, so that angle is a lower priority. I'm planning, though, on making a liquids and gas processing facility - like my smelters. It'll pump out barrels of every useful fluid, and those barrels can be carried by logistics bots to precisely where I need them without dealing with pipes everywhere.

In the long ago world, I did this a lot mainly, because oil was a PITA to fit in to production lines. Liquid and gas processing was complex and extraction seemed to have to happen in large fields where production "lines" were impossible. The irony was the biggest reason I needed to process all those liquids and gasses was to make the stuff to make the bots to move the processed gases and liquids more efficiently. But then that irony was sort of my whole appreciation of the game.

stessier wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:48 am

Paingod wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:02 am I've got close to 300k in oil just sitting in storage tanks, so that angle is a lower priority. I'm planning, though, on making a liquids and gas processing facility - like my smelters. It'll pump out barrels of every useful fluid, and those barrels can be carried by logistics bots to precisely where I need them without dealing with pipes everywhere.

Let me know how this goes. I've never barreled anything and wonder if it is worth trying to set up.

I tried it once on a smaller scale, using belts because I was afraid of trains for some reason. My oil facilities literally bottled everything up and rolled out on a belt down to my base, where I'd unpack it and send back the empty. It was foolish.

My concern is empty barrels. They have a way of ending up distributed poorly based on the facilities that are using a lot of materials. Once they bunch up somewhere, it chokes out other factories. I need to fix it. If I could label a barrel "Oil Only" it'd help, but instead that Oil barrel might get sent to the Acid farm instead of back to the Oil depot.

Paingod wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:02 am

stessier wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 8:48 am

Paingod wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 7:02 am I've got close to 300k in oil just sitting in storage tanks, so that angle is a lower priority. I'm planning, though, on making a liquids and gas processing facility - like my smelters. It'll pump out barrels of every useful fluid, and those barrels can be carried by logistics bots to precisely where I need them without dealing with pipes everywhere.

Let me know how this goes. I've never barreled anything and wonder if it is worth trying to set up.

I tried it once on a smaller scale, using belts because I was afraid of trains for some reason. My oil facilities literally bottled everything up and rolled out on a belt down to my base, where I'd unpack it and send back the empty. It was foolish.

My concern is empty barrels. They have a way of ending up distributed poorly based on the facilities that are using a lot of materials. Once they bunch up somewhere, it chokes out other factories. I need to fix it. If I could label a barrel "Oil Only" it'd help, but instead that Oil barrel might get sent to the Acid farm instead of back to the Oil depot.

Use Purple chests to push them to Yellow chests in a central location and the Blue Chests to request them where you need them.

I use rail cars to move my oil to a central location. Right now the only other fluid I move any distance is Sulferic Acid to my uranium mine. Everything else is still running in that one spot. That'll change soon as I expand my battery, motor, and engine factories.

stessier wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:17 am

Paingod wrote: ↑Thu Oct 15, 2020 10:02 amMy concern is empty barrels. They have a way of ending up distributed poorly based on the facilities that are using a lot of materials. Once they bunch up somewhere, it chokes out other factories. I need to fix it. If I could label a barrel "Oil Only" it'd help, but instead that Oil barrel might get sent to the Acid farm instead of back to the Oil depot.

Use Purple chests to push them to Yellow chests in a central location and the Blue Chests to request them where you need them.

I use rail cars to move my oil to a central location. Right now the only other fluid I move any distance is Sulfuric Acid to my uranium mine. Everything else is still running in that one spot. That'll change soon as I expand my battery, motor, and engine factories.

I'll have to look more into those logistics chests. All I've ever used were Blue (Requestor) & Red (Passive Provider). I suppose even those, if I stored them at my fluids facility, could handle the issue by storing the bulk of the barrels and only sending them off to where they were needed.

My problems before may have been based on a non-logistics barrel scheme. Remember, I was being silly and using belts (not trains) to move goods. It wouldn't surprise me if I hadn't gotten to Logistics yet when I ran into issues.

The machine shudders and grinds.

I now have Iron and Steel being shipped to my manufacturing base, and a copper mine established but not tied in with smelters yet. I'm still functionally producing nothing. I probably wont until I have Liquids/Fuel, Iron, Steel, Copper, Microchips (Green/Red/Blue) and Stone products coming into my base along separate trains.

My primary achievement - the thing I was most pleased with - was getting a rail line set up that utilizes two tracks, rail signals, and chain signals. My Iron and Steel are sharing a single track into my planned base for unloading materials. They share a single route along the path to drop off Iron for smelting into Steel. They don't destroy each other or bind each other up (much).

One thing I've started trying out is slotting a single space in the front car of each train for fuel. When they stop, they unload fuel into a Passive Provider chest inside a tiny logistics network (one or two Roboports and ~10 drones). They refill this single slot at the home base (as well as refueling). By this method I hope to keep my remote bases on automated resupply, and allow any train that doesn't return to the home base regularly (just traveling between satellites and drop zones) to stay refueled automatically. I should be able to create a successful trickle-down refueling scheme that I never fuss over as long as Home Base always produces fuel.

I know it probably sounds small to folks with mega-bases and hundreds of hours invested in design. For me it's a new innovation in efficiency! I'm trying to find them as I go without scouring the interwebs and copying other people's designs.

One thing I've noted is that creating all of these larger facilities takes far more planning than just whipping up hodge-podge ramshackle setups. It doesn't feel like I did much last night, but I spent hours doing it and enjoyed the planning quite a bit.

Also: Holy crap do mines produce pollution. The red zone on my map from my 10m iron mine is immense. Bigger than I ever thought a single cloud could be. Laser Turret production very much needs to be my #1 priority once I get a flow of goods going to a central spot. Watching that cloud clip the edges of biter hives outside my safe zone puts me on edge.

My mind keeps drifting back to the "City Block" concept as well. Right now I'm basically plunking down rail stations wherever I can find space that doesn't overlap a potential mining operation. Eventually all of those mines will be cleared out and all of the land will be flattened and clean. That may be Phase IV of my game.

I love that there are increasingly complex layers of learning in this game.

Phase I: Simple Bases - Your first base, wrought with your own hands, everything placed manually. It grows organically and by need alone.
Phase II: Remote Bases - You're finally getting oil and setting up outposts to ship goods to your main base for processing.
Phase III: Infrastructure Overhaul - You've discovered the value of Blueprints and have enough of them to start stamping out complex productions with little effort - but you need larger-scale efficiency over more space.
Phase IV: Mass Production - You've mastered rail logistics and large-scale manufacturing and can stamp out huge production facilities and tie them into your main grid.

What's Phase V, I wonder? This is the first time I've gone much past Phase II. I've always rebuilt everything by hand and relied on a single massive complex where I sent everything I needed to produce in order to shoot a rocket into space. A single rocket. Not a stream of them.

Sounds like you made some very nice progress!

I agree that the layers in the game are always pushing your forward and totally understand the idea of spending hours doing something that doesn't technically show any progress but sets you up for a big jump forward. This morning I spent a few hours ripping out my old engine production and putting in a bigger setup. It ended up de-spaghetti-fying my base - I have so much more room!

Also, this is my 8th game and I'm up to 190 hours in it (846 into the game overall). Up to now I always stopped after firing off the first rocket as well. This one I'm trying to see how fast I can fire them off. It's an interesting challenge.

Has anyone played with the Spidertron much? I was hoping it would be good at clearing out nests, but so far (at least the way I'm using it), not so much.

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:51 amAlso, this is my 8th game and I'm up to 190 hours in it (846 into the game overall). Up to now I always stopped after firing off the first rocket as well. This one I'm trying to see how fast I can fire them off. It's an interesting challenge.

I kind of wish I could see my total hours played. I bought Factorio through GOG.com and don't have a clock on the game like I would with Steam. Rapid Rockets may be my big goal for this game, too.

I think that if I were to restart the game, I'd have my main base still running while I built out my Phase III trainyard bases. I'd simply shift from research production to materials and facilities production. It's taking me a long time to build a lot of parts by hand that I should have a base making for me. This is a step I messed up with. Right now I'd need to re-divert resources and time to building a small line of production instead of sticking with my plan for a larger geographically distant supply chain.

I simply find myself running around a lot, picking up resources to make Rail Tracks, Inserters, Chests, Trains, Signals, Mines, and Smelters. I suppose I could still maybe quickly set up a small base producing just these things in bulk. None of them requires liquids in any form. Just Iron, Copper, and Stone.

Come to think of it, once I unlocked Electric Smelting, I could have redesigned my entire base structure then to accommodate this, and done it easily. As long as I left enough space for expansion at each rail station, there's no reason I couldn't have started this earlier.

In any other game a revelation like that would have caused me to restart. There's little point in Factorio, though, as nothing is ever really lost unless you blow it up.

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 7:51 amHas anyone played with the Spidertron much? I was hoping it would be good at clearing out nests, but so far (at least the way I'm using it), not so much.

At 10,000 research, the Spidertron is not something I've unlocked yet. It looks pretty badass, but when I read the description and saw it in action, it seemed more like an end-game travel option that was more useful for passing through territory smoothly without destroying everything than anything else. I really love taking down hives with my Tank, but I have to stop and repair 3-4 times when I'm up against the larger ones. I rely heavily on my Personal Defense Lasers (2x) for taking down enemies chasing me while I hit structures with Explosive Shells.

Do Personal Defense Lasers still work from inside the Spidertron? If so, I'd consider refitting myself for combat and stuffing my Power Armor with nothing but fusion reactors and personal defense lasers. It's becoming increasingly rare for me to step out of my Tank or Car while playing, except when I'm making fine-tuned adjustments. I prefer to be highly mobile and have a second inventory at my fingertips. I expect that when I get a Spidertron, I may never leave it and will become one with the machine.

I walk most places or take my train. I'm only in the tank when I'm attacking. My building armor set has 6 exoskeleton legs which makes me faster than everything except trains. My attack armor has 14 personal lasers and yes, they still work while in the Spidertron.

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:38 amMy building armor set has 6 exoskeleton legs which makes me faster than everything except trains.

scribbles notes

I have Exo legs in my armor, but I've also got everything else in there so it's just the one set. I didn't realize you could stack the speed boost. They look like you wear one set. I probably need to pay attention to the tool tips more.

Paingod wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:59 am

stessier wrote: ↑Fri Oct 16, 2020 8:38 amMy building armor set has 6 exoskeleton legs which makes me faster than everything except trains.

scribbles notes

I have Exo legs in my armor, but I've also got everything else in there so it's just the one set. I didn't realize you could stack the speed boost. They look like you wear one set. I probably need to pay attention to the tool tips more.

I leaned it through a video, so I'm not sure if the tooltip would help you out not. I agree it's not immediately obvious multiple ones would provide a benefit.

I played more with the Spidertron today and found it is very effective - you just need a ton of rockets and set it so you have control of where it fires when you are inside of it. I cleared out a ton of space without ever dying.

Also, last night I realized that the miners have a light on them that is Green when mining, Yellow when stopped but still capable of mining (like if it's on a patch but the belt in front of it is full of ore), and Red when it's patch is mined out. Makes removing miners so much easier!!

stessier wrote: ↑Sat Oct 17, 2020 12:49 pm Also, last night I realized that the miners have a light on them that is Green when mining, Yellow when stopped but still capable of mining (like if it's on a patch but the belt in front of it is full of ore), and Red when it's patch is mined out. Makes removing miners so much easier!!

I am trying not to laugh at the amount of time you have in the game without seeing that. It's impressive in a way.