Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:55 pm

The replies to Bernie's tweet teasing his endorsement of Biden are about what you'd expect. A lot of angry Bernie Bros upset that Sanders would endorse Biden, and talking about how they will never vote for Biden and will either not vote or vote third party in November.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:59 pm

I have some young Bernie supporting friends and their attitude really irks me. I try not to buy into the "millennials" stereotypes, but damn if they don't make it hard not to sometimes. If they don't get their instant gratification of a progressive America RIGHT NOW then they're going to take their ball and go home.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:22 pm

YellowKing wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:59 pm I have some young Bernie supporting friends and their attitude really irks me. I try not to buy into the "millennials" stereotypes, but damn if they don't make it hard not to sometimes. If they don't get their instant gratification of a progressive America RIGHT NOW then they're going to take their ball and go home.

That seems to be a lot of what the Bernie Bros and people with roses in their name on Twitter are saying.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 3:23 pm

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:03 pm

El Guapo wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 2:34 pm It seems like Sanders and Biden like each other (personally) much more than Sanders and Clinton did.

IIUC, Biden was one of the few Senators that went beyond what was typical and went out of his way to be friendly to Sanders when he became Senator.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:11 pm

To give him some measure of due, I think Sanders in 2016 (like the rest of us) assumed a Donald Trump victory was impossible, so there was some sense (at least up to a point) in his fighting nasty to hold on to his chance at the nomination.

He now seems to understand (like the rest of us) that we're in the Upside Down.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:16 pm

What's baffling to me is that a lot of the die hard support for Sanders rests on the (explicit or implicit) notion that Sanders is a quasi-unique figure blessed with unusual capacity to get the issues and to cut through corruption, greed, and special interests. But if that's the case, then if *Sanders himself* is telling you that we should all get behind Biden right now, what's the logic for second-guessing him? Why in this one case are you right and Sanders wrong?

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:25 pm

It's only like 15% support that's like that, and my take is that that's not people who care about Sanders on the isssues - it's people that support him for being anti-establishment and want to "burn the system down".

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:55 pm

Defiant wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:25 pm It's only like 15% support that's like that, and my take is that that's not people who care about Sanders on the isssues - it's people that support him for being anti-establishment and want to "burn the system down".

Yeah, it can definitely be overstated how representative those posts are of Sanders supporters. It's also fair to not be ready to go from full Sanders to full Biden in a week or so, and to go through the cycle of grief. And I know this isn't a logic-driven process.

But it's still a little baffling.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:13 pm

El Guapo wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:55 pm
Defiant wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:25 pm It's only like 15% support that's like that, and my take is that that's not people who care about Sanders on the isssues - it's people that support him for being anti-establishment and want to "burn the system down".
Yeah, it can definitely be overstated how representative those posts are of Sanders supporters. It's also fair to not be ready to go from full Sanders to full Biden in a week or so, and to go through the cycle of grief. And I know this isn't a logic-driven process.

But it's still a little baffling.

At least one of his major surrogates (an official campaign spokesperson whose handle I forget) today announced a refusal to endorse Biden, so we'll be looking at some prominent #NeverJoe resistance at least until the grief cycle runs its course.

I guess the next important milestones will be when AOC and (e.g.) Michael Moore make their peace with politics.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:06 pm

Every single Wisconsin Supreme Court Justice voted with an absentee ballot - for those keeping track.

"They are luckier than the thousands of others who tried to do the same and were unable to," said state Sen. Chris Larson, a Milwaukee Democrat running for Milwaukee County exec.

Just how unusual was this?

Very.

In the previous five elections, a majority of the justices voted in person at the polls on election day. Two justices did this in each of the last five elections. In the February primary, four justices voted at the polls on election day while three voted absentee.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:07 pm

malchior wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:46 pm
Defiant wrote: Tue Apr 07, 2020 8:45 pm I wonder if the decision not to move the election (and extend absentee balloting) will backfire and hurt Republicans?

Maybe less wonder than hope.
Pretty much impossible. There are allegations they sent absentee ballots to GOP areas and not to Dem areas and then there are limited polling locations. It'll likely be very lopsided. Also they can't call it for a week most likely which may dilute the message.

Liberal challenger Judge Jill Karofsky also pulled out an upset victory over conservative Wisconsin state Supreme Court Judge Dan Kelly in a major win for Democrats.

https://www.businessinsider.com/wiscons ... nts-2020-4

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:12 pm

That's wonderful. Many, many people went to turnout despite all the issues apparently. That's a glimmer of hope to say the least. I'm really curious to see how many were in person vs. absentee. There are preliminary reports that turnout was 20% higher than 2018. Maybe that is a reflection of a high absentee ballot count. Not sure but really solid news for November. I also love that they called this an upset. She was thought to be in the lead and dark money poured in and the electoral shenanigans began.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 8:32 pm

Holman wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 5:13 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:55 pm
Defiant wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:25 pm It's only like 15% support that's like that, and my take is that that's not people who care about Sanders on the isssues - it's people that support him for being anti-establishment and want to "burn the system down".
Yeah, it can definitely be overstated how representative those posts are of Sanders supporters. It's also fair to not be ready to go from full Sanders to full Biden in a week or so, and to go through the cycle of grief. And I know this isn't a logic-driven process.

But it's still a little baffling.
At least one of his major surrogates (an official campaign spokesperson whose handle I forget) today announced a refusal to endorse Biden, so we'll be looking at some prominent #NeverJoe resistance at least until the grief cycle runs its course.

I guess the next important milestones will be when AOC and (e.g.) Michael Moore make their peace with politics.

It was his campaign spokeswoman.

https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/ ... 1689214976

With the utmost respect for Bernie Sanders, who is an incredible human being & a genuine inspiration, I don't endorse Joe Biden.

I supported Bernie Sanders because he backed ideas like #MedicareForAll, cancelling ALL student debt, & a wealth tax. Biden supports none of those.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 9:37 pm

El Guapo wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 4:16 pm What's baffling to me is that a lot of the die hard support for Sanders rests on the (explicit or implicit) notion that Sanders is a quasi-unique figure blessed with unusual capacity to get the issues and to cut through corruption, greed, and special interests. But if that's the case, then if *Sanders himself* is telling you that we should all get behind Biden right now, what's the logic for second-guessing him? Why in this one case are you right and Sanders wrong?

I've seen answers to that question along the lines of 'the movement will continue without Sanders'

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:16 pm

https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/ ... 1689214976

With the utmost respect for Bernie Sanders, who is an incredible human being & a genuine inspiration, I don't endorse Joe Biden.

I supported Bernie Sanders because he backed ideas like #MedicareForAll, cancelling ALL student debt, & a wealth tax. Biden supports none of those.

And so, she proposes not voting for Biden, thereby potentially helping Trump get reelected, which would ensure a 7-2 Supreme Court that would mean that all of those policies (not to mention Sander's other policies) would be dead on arrival for at least two or three decades, and would also put at risk the progressive gains we've achieved in the past.

That's an... interesting... political strategy.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 9:42 am

Defiant wrote: Mon Apr 13, 2020 11:16 pm

https://twitter.com/briebriejoy/status/ ... 1689214976

With the utmost respect for Bernie Sanders, who is an incredible human being & a genuine inspiration, I don't endorse Joe Biden.

I supported Bernie Sanders because he backed ideas like #MedicareForAll, cancelling ALL student debt, & a wealth tax. Biden supports none of those.

And so, she proposes not voting for Biden, thereby potentially helping Trump get reelected, which would ensure a 7-2 Supreme Court that would mean that all of those policies (not to mention Sander's other policies) would be dead on arrival for at least two or three decades, and would also put at risk the progressive gains we've achieved in the past.

That's an... interesting... political strategy.

I've said it before, but in many ways my main issue with Sanders is the people that he surrounds himself with.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:49 am

Obama is endorsing Biden today.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:50 am

pr0ner wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:49 am Obama is endorsing Biden today.

I just kinda assumed this had already happened, and did so without any fanfare. Was a little surprised to hear it wasn't "official" yet.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:52 am

Skinypupy wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:50 am
pr0ner wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:49 am Obama is endorsing Biden today.
I just kinda assumed this had already happened, and did so without any fanfare. Was a little surprised to hear it wasn't "official" yet.

Obama (wisely) waited until the primaries were over and the dust had cleared. If he had endorsed before that, plenty of people (especially Bernie Bros) would howl that he was rigging the primaries by his choice.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:58 am

pr0ner wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:52 am
Skinypupy wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:50 am
pr0ner wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 10:49 am Obama is endorsing Biden today.
I just kinda assumed this had already happened, and did so without any fanfare. Was a little surprised to hear it wasn't "official" yet.
Obama (wisely) waited until the primaries were over and the dust had cleared. If he had endorsed before that, plenty of people (especially Bernie Bros) would howl that he was rigging the primaries by his choice.

He did the same thing in 2016.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:00 am

For a minute there I was worried he'd endorse Trump. Nice to have that fear quashed.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:11 am

Yeah, of course he would wait for the primary to be (effectively) over. That said, I would have thought it would make more sense to wait for the current crisis to be over (to get more media attention).

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:13 am

Defiant wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:11 am Yeah, of course he would wait for the primary to be (effectively) over. That said, I would have thought it would make more sense to wait for the current crisis to be over (to get more media attention).

If he waited too long the media would inevitably start writing "Why hasn't Obama endorsed Biden yet? Does he dislike his former VP?" type stories.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:17 am

El Guapo wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:13 am
Defiant wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:11 am Yeah, of course he would wait for the primary to be (effectively) over. That said, I would have thought it would make more sense to wait for the current crisis to be over (to get more media attention).
If he waited too long the media would inevitably start writing "Why hasn't Obama endorsed Biden yet? Does he dislike his former VP?" type stories.

Obama is the biggest gun in the Dem nominee's campaigning arsenal, and doubly so for Biden. One hopes that Obama will go all-in during or right after the convention.

I don't see anybody courting Hillary.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:21 am

El Guapo wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:13 am
Defiant wrote: Tue Apr 14, 2020 11:11 am Yeah, of course he would wait for the primary to be (effectively) over. That said, I would have thought it would make more sense to wait for the current crisis to be over (to get more media attention).
If he waited too long the media would inevitably start writing "Why hasn't Obama endorsed Biden yet? Does he dislike his former VP?" type stories.

Fair point.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:04 pm

https://twitter.com/BarackObama/status/ ... 09762?s=20

Twelve-minute statement.

Trump makes it nearly impossible to remember that presidents can be honest and articulate and human.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:26 pm

2nd half of that endorsement video is pretty devastating in that it's all plainly true facts about 'the other side,' and also in that half the country will reject it out of hand as partisan name-calling.

gameoverman · Post by **gameoverman** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 7:59 pm

YellowKing wrote: Wed Apr 08, 2020 8:34 pm
gameoverman wrote: He needs to come across as competent, willing to lead, and like he has a plan to deal with what's going on.
I think he's been doing a pretty good job of that so far.

I must be missing out. Where does he appear? As far as I've seen, he's had less to say about everything going on than New York's, California's, or even Florida's governor. He can't be appearing in public gatherings, so where's his online hangout?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Tue Apr 14, 2020 8:07 pm

Bernie is doubling down... on supporting Biden.

https://twitter.com/JoyAnnReid/status/1 ... 70373?s=20

Some quotes:

Bernie Sanders said Tuesday that it would be “irresponsible” for his loyalists not to support Joe Biden, warning that progressives who “sit on their hands” in the months ahead would simply enable President Donald Trump’s reelection.

And lest there be any question, the 78-year-old Vermont senator confirmed that “it’s probably a very fair assumption” that he would not run for president again. He added, with a laugh: “One can’t predict the future.”

He seemed to distance himself from his campaign’s former national press secretary, Briahna Joy Gray, when asked about her recent statement on social media refusing to endorse Biden.

“She is my former press secretary — not on the payroll,” Sanders noted.

Sanders said his supporters have a simple choice now that Biden has emerged as the presumptive nominee: “Do we be as active as we can in electing Joe Biden and doing everything we can to move Joe and his campaign in a more progressive direction? Or do we choose to sit it out and allow the most dangerous president in modern American history to get reelected?”

He continued: “I believe that it’s irresponsible for anybody to say, ‘Well, I disagree with Joe Biden -- I disagree with Joe Biden! -- and therefore I’m not going to be involved.’”

“I will do everything I can to help elect Joe,” Sanders continued. “We had a contentious campaign. We disagree on issues. But my job now is to not only rally my supporters, but to do everything I can to bring the party together to see that (Trump) is not elected president.”

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 9:09 am

Again from the "things I thought had already happened" file, Warren to endorse Biden today.

While Joe is far from my ideal candidate, I'm highly encouraged by the solidarity behind him. It's almost like everyone finally realizes what an existential threat Trump is to our country, or something.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:18 am

It doesn't hurt that Biden himself is a weak figure who will (presumably) surround himself with more effective people and (probably) be a one-term president. If he wins, he'll be more transitional than transformative.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:25 am

Kraken wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:18 am It doesn't hurt that Biden himself is a weak figure who will (presumably) surround himself with more effective people and (probably) be a one-term president. If he wins, he'll be more transitional than transformative.

I disagree that Biden would probably be a one term president. Unless his health severely degrades (which is possible), he'd almost certainly run for reelection.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:48 am

I think it is more likely, if he has a strong VP, that they would get the nod. And hey, AOC is eligible in 2024.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:55 am

Jaymann wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:48 am I think it is more likely, if he has a strong VP, that they would get the nod. And hey, AOC is eligible in 2024.

AOC can't be VP in 2020, so she can't be in the position of being a strong VP in 2024.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:10 am

El Guapo wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:55 am
Jaymann wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:48 am I think it is more likely, if he has a strong VP, that they would get the nod. And hey, AOC is eligible in 2024.
AOC can't be VP in 2020, so she can't be in the position of being a strong VP in 2024.

Two separate concepts, VP runs OR AOC runs.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 11:24 am

Kraken wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:18 am It doesn't hurt that Biden himself is a weak figure who will (presumably) surround himself with more effective people and (probably) be a one-term president. If he wins, he'll be more transitional than transformative.

Hell, it's going to take him until the midterms just to finish canceling all of Trump's executive orders.

gilraen · Post by **gilraen** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:55 pm

El Guapo wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:25 am
Kraken wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:18 am It doesn't hurt that Biden himself is a weak figure who will (presumably) surround himself with more effective people and (probably) be a one-term president. If he wins, he'll be more transitional than transformative.
I disagree that Biden would probably be a one term president. Unless his health severely degrades (which is possible), he'd almost certainly run for reelection.

He's literally said it himself, that he plans on only staying for one term. Of course, not to say that he couldn't change his mind, if his health permits.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:08 pm

gilraen wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 12:55 pm
El Guapo wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:25 am
Kraken wrote: Wed Apr 15, 2020 10:18 am It doesn't hurt that Biden himself is a weak figure who will (presumably) surround himself with more effective people and (probably) be a one-term president. If he wins, he'll be more transitional than transformative.
I disagree that Biden would probably be a one term president. Unless his health severely degrades (which is possible), he'd almost certainly run for reelection.
He's literally said it himself, that he plans on only staying for one term. Of course, not to say that he couldn't change his mind, if his health permits.

Cite? I just googled "Biden one term", and the results are about a story in mid-December that Biden was telling aides that he'd only serve one term, which Biden denied in a debate.

Democratic presidential front-runner Joe Biden refused to make promises at Thursday night’s debate about seeking a second term if his White House run is successful.

“No, I’m not willing to commit one way or another,” the 77-year-old former vice president said after a moderator asked him about making a pledge to run for a second term.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Wed Apr 15, 2020 1:22 pm

I don't find someone in their 80s running for president, but then, I had trouble seeing late-70 year olds running, and I had trouble thinking of Trump as a credible candidate, so what do I know?

I also don't find AOC credible at all as a candidate. Maybe in a decade (especially if she's grown and has a record of accomplishments)