The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Kraken]

New analysis by NPR tells us what we already knew, but in detail, with charts n stuff.

Since May 2021, people living in counties that voted heavily for Donald Trump during the last presidential election have been nearly three times as likely to die from COVID-19 as those who live in areas that went for now-President Biden. That's according to a new analysis by NPR that examines how political polarization and misinformation are driving a significant share of the deaths in the pandemic.

[Daehawk]

Good for them. WTG

[pr0ner]

Please stop cheering on people dying from Covid.

[Kraken]

The sources of mis- and disinformation are killing people as surely as the virus is. They won't be held culpable. That's not something to root for, even if most of those dying aren't very nice people.

[RunningMn9]

Please stop cheering on people dying from Covid.

I’d like to think I wouldn’t actively cheer for it, but I can guarantee that I’m out of empathy for them.

[malchior]

Please stop cheering on people dying from Covid.

I’d like to think I wouldn’t actively cheer for it, but I can guarantee that I’m out of empathy for them.

This is where I'm at.

[coopasonic]

Please stop cheering on people dying from Covid.

I’d like to think I wouldn’t actively cheer for it, but I can guarantee that I’m out of empathy for them.

This is where I'm at.

But then you remember that many of us have parents, in-laws, aunts and uncles, etc that we know are good, thoughtful people that have been influenced largely by social media and media outlets into this stance. The power of information silos is incredible and dangerous.

[Zaxxon]

Please stop cheering on people dying from Covid.

I’d like to think I wouldn’t actively cheer for it, but I can guarantee that I’m out of empathy for them.

This is where I'm at.

[Zaxxon]

Please stop cheering on people dying from Covid.

I’d like to think I wouldn’t actively cheer for it, but I can guarantee that I’m out of empathy for them.

This is where I'm at.

But then you remember that many of us have parents, in-laws, aunts and uncles, etc that we know are good, thoughtful people that have been influenced largely by social media and media outlets into this stance. The power of information silos is incredible and dangerous.

Absolutely. At some point, though, empathy runs out.

[Smoove_B]

I am legitimately concerned for quite a few of my extended family members. One that refuses to vaccinate because he has magic bracelets that protect him and the other that is vaccinated but still engages in what in what I would label high-risk activities.

In other news, this should be an interesting one to follow:

BREAKING: Employers in New York City must require COVID-19 vaccinations for their workers under new rules announced Monday by Mayor Bill de Blasio.

The vaccine mandate for private businesses will take effect December 27.

[Skinypupy]

Oh, for fuck's sake. Just when I thought this braying jackass couldn't get more stupid.

Cancer isn't contagious, genius.

https://twitter.com/mtgreenee/status/14 ... 6697724932

1. Every single year more than 600,000 people in the US die from cancer.

The country has never once shut down.

Not a single school has closed.

And every year, over 600,000 people, of all ages and all races will continue to die from cancer.

[Carpet_pissr]

I can’t even…

I’m much happier thinking she’s just an epic troll.

[Alefroth]

I'm surprised she didn't just go for it all and say 600K people die from abortions every year.

[Freyland]

At least pregnancy has a veneer of being "contagious".

[Smoove_B]

https://twitter.com/kylegriffin1/status ... 3166242824

Beginning today, international travelers will be required to have proof of a negative COVID test within one day of departure for the U.S. Previously, a test could be taken up to three days before entering the country.

Good. Now do domestic flights.

[RunningMn9]

But then you remember that many of us have parents, in-laws, aunts and uncles, etc that we know are good, thoughtful people that have been influenced largely by social media and media outlets into this stance. The power of information silos is incredible and dangerous.

I’m out of empathy for them too. And it turns out that in many cases, we *thought* they were good, thoughtful people, but they weren’t.

[malchior]

https://mobile.twitter.com/mkarolian/st ... 9645298697

[Pyperkub]

I love living in Marin, but we do have some batshit crazy people here sometimes. I almost think the parents did this so they could go to work, or not have the kids in the house while working from home, that would be very Marin...

https://www.marinij.com/2021/12/04/cali ... ith-covid/

[Kasey Chang]

I'm surprised she didn't just go for it all and say 600K people die from abortions every year.

Cancer generally doesn't put you on ventilator before killing you in weeks, and sometimes, HOURS.

Cancer is generally not preventable with a vaccine. (except HPV for cervical cancer)

US Death Rate for COVID is currently at 240/100K.

US Death Rate for cancer is 146/100K.

The two are not comparable, sheesh. And the saddest part is her audience will eat this **** up.

[Kasey Chang]

I can’t even…

I’m much happier thinking she’s just an epic troll.

That's just 1 of 5. There are four more to go, in which she gets crazier, calling on CDC and Biden to end bioweapons research and redirect the money so everyone can get Ivermectin. Because people should prioritize losing weight over vaccination.

[LordMortis]

I’m out of empathy for them too. And it turns out that in many cases, we *thought* they were good, thoughtful people, but they weren’t.

That may be but for the ones I am truly protecting, they are good people. Unfortunately, their ability to be "thoughtful" has obviously been compromised, as they literally can't see being vaccinated is being thoughtful. That said, even as I am only truly trying to protect a very small few, the golden rule still applies, even if it weren't for the few I am literally trying to protect. But then I both have weak immune system and often have an exaggerated sense of empathy.

[YellowKing]

People are complex. I know a guy who spends countless volunteer hours at his church, has gone overseas on multiple occasions to help the hungry in Africa building houses and providing training on agriculture, etc. I don't think you could deny that the guy has compassion for those in need.

He's also a die-hard Republican who doesn't believe in vaccines or masking.

As frustrating as it is to reconcile from the outside, people are very good at compartmentalizing and justifying sometimes contradictory viewpoints. I don't think that makes them bad people, it just makes them human.

[malchior]

People are complex. I know a guy who spends countless volunteer hours at his church, has gone overseas on multiple occasions to help the hungry in Africa building houses and providing training on agriculture, etc. I don't think you could deny that the guy has compassion for those in need.

He's also a die-hard Republican who doesn't believe in vaccines or masking.

As frustrating as it is to reconcile from the outside, people are very good at compartmentalizing and justifying sometimes contradictory viewpoints. I don't think that makes them bad people, it just makes them human.

Yeah I find this often to be confusing different things. Someone can be incredibly generous with their time and effort and still have horrible judgement. That's generally what I see in these folks. They consume garbage data, have faulty causative understanding, and often get sucked into fantasy narratives but they can be very nice people otherwise. Though I've also seen those very nice people become dangerously angry when confronted with anything that contradicts their very carefully constructed fantasy viewpoint. Everyone wants simple answers like they are 'evil' or 'stupid' or whatever but it's almost never that easy.

[LordMortis]

People are complex. I know a guy who spends countless volunteer hours at his church, has gone overseas on multiple occasions to help the hungry in Africa building houses and providing training on agriculture, etc. I don't think you could deny that the guy has compassion for those in need.

He's also a die-hard Republican who doesn't believe in vaccines or masking.

As frustrating as it is to reconcile from the outside, people are very good at compartmentalizing and justifying sometimes contradictory viewpoints. I don't think that makes them bad people, it just makes them human.

That's my mom only she's libertarian in the legit sense. She would step right off the grid if she could and live off the land until it kills her. She has reconciled herself the very real idea of dying of COVID and sees the crazy spread and what a danger it is. She keeps her distance, keeps clean, wears her mask. But she won't vaccinate. There is no hesitancy any more. At the same time, she puts herself and others at increased risk as she shops and cooks and works in shelters to feed the hungry regularly. She is a danger to herself and others precisely because of her desire to give to her fellow man. It's all very upsetting. She is not alone but she is bathed among the other form of arrogance that won't vaccinate, don't mask, and don't care about anyone but themselves. That's the ubiquity among the libertarian thought and the republicans who pretend they're libertarian.

[Blackhawk]

He's also a die-hard Republican who doesn't believe in vaccines or masking.

As frustrating as it is to reconcile from the outside, people are very good at compartmentalizing and justifying sometimes contradictory viewpoints.

Contradictory viewpoints I'm fine with, but I can't comprehend denying hard, proven reality as being a 'viewpoint.' I can, for instance, appreciate that the idea that life begins at conception and that allowing abortion is murder. I don't agree with it, but I can accept it as a viewpoint and acknowledge the value in having it as part of the discussion. But not 'believing' in masking and vaccines is like not believing the Earth is round.

And when the effect of the 'viewpoint' is lost human lives without benefit, I don't have any respect for it, either.

[Smoove_B]

As a follow up to the lawsuits regarding the vaccine mandate for federal contractors:

A federal judge on Tuesday issued a nationwide injunction against a vaccine mandate for federal contractors, ruling that President Joe Biden probably exceeded his authority by imposing the requirement.

Judge R. Stan Baker, who's based in Georgia, temporarily blocked implementation of the administration after a lawsuit from numerous states and a trade group argued that letting the mandate take effect on Jan. 4 would cause "irreparable injury" to workers who could be forced out of their jobs.

All of this is surreal. The next pandemic is absolutely going to be a society killer as we are clearly not prepared to deal with it.

[hepcat]

So my rabidly Repub/anti vax coworker was in the office today. As I said earlier, I have trouble reconciling the person I know with the vile crap he posts on Facebook. He brought me some candy from one of his hometown confectioneries I love, and he then bought lunch for those in the office.

Later in the day, we were talking and it turned to his recent bout with Covid. Then he mentioned that he might have to go overseas for a client and that means he has to get the vaccine. He wasn’t railing about it (which was odd, given his stated beliefs on social media), but I did get to hear some of his anti vax stories.

First up: he told me that his doctor told him he can’t even get the vaccine for at least 6 months after having Covid because his body would “attack itself”. Is this true?

He then told me that a client of his got the vaccine, then 6 hours later was in the ER due to anaphylactic shock. He proceeded to tell me he’s learned of numerous stories of such things happening, which is why he hadn’t gotten vaccinated before.

Honestly, he was pretty calm with me when I kicked back against some of his stories. So maybe he’s starting to open up to the possibility that he’s wrong. But the stories he was spouting today were pretty out there.

[Max Peck]

First up: he told me that his doctor told him he can’t even get the vaccine for at least 6 months after having Covid because his body would “attack itself”. Is this true?

It is not true.

Can people who have already tested positive for COVID-19 get a COVID-19 vaccine?



Yes. Those who have previously tested positive for COVID-19 should still be vaccinated and people do not need COVID-19 testing prior to vaccination (NACI, 2021). If you were self-isolating, you may be vaccinated as soon as your self-isolation period is finished. There is no information that suggests that antibodies from a recent SARS-CoV-2 infection would interfere with vaccine efficacy.

Those who have tested positive for COVID-19 should wait until they have recovered, and public health has told them they no longer need to self-isolate, before getting vaccinated.

You must complete your isolation before getting a vaccine so that you do not expose others at a vaccination clinic to the virus.

[hepcat]

I assumed as much, but wanted to verify. He even told me to my face that three doctors told him that when I expressed doubt about the veracity of that statement.

[Smoove_B]

The current recommendation for people that had COVID and/or received monoclonal antibodies is to wait 90 days from recovery/treatment to receive the vaccine. I'm not sure if the 90 day recommendation will remain in place and/or they're just trying to be safe but my understanding is that it's related to the idea that ~90 days out they should have protection (naturally acquired) but after that it will diminish. Receiving certain types of vaccines while you still have circulating antibodies can diminish effectiveness of response, but I honestly don't know enough about mRNA vaccinations to say how circulating antibodies are affected (if at all).

If we look at the CDC data that was published on allergic reactions:

During December 14–23, 2020, monitoring by the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System detected 21 cases of anaphylaxis after administration of a reported 1,893,360 first doses of the Pfizer-BioNTech COVID-19 vaccine (11.1 cases per million doses); 71% of these occurred within 15 minutes of vaccination.

Note these are from VAERS - an open-source system that allows anyone to report a reaction. 11 cases per 1 million doses is above the last study I'd seen where we expected 1.3 per 1 million doses. I'd like to see more data now that we've rolled out more than ~2 million shots. I suspect the rate is closer to 1.3 than 11.

[LawBeefaroni]

He then told me that a client of his got the vaccine, then 6 hours later was in the ER due to anaphylactic shock. He proceeded to tell me he’s learned of numerous stories of such things happening, which is why he hadn’t gotten vaccinated before.

If it was > 3 hours to onset, the anaphylaxis wasn't the result of the vaccine. Timing doesn't work. It was something after the vaccine.

[Smoove_B]

And more on the mandate:

The Senate voted Wednesday night to overturn President Joe Biden's Covid-19 vaccine or testing mandate for private businesses with 100 or more employees.

While it likely won't become law since its chances of getting a vote in the House are uncertain and Biden is certain to veto it, the effort demonstrates the bipartisan opposition in Congress to the federal government's vaccine mandate for large employers.
The effort was led by Indiana Republican Sen. Mike Braun, and it needed just a simple majority of 51 votes to be approved by the chamber.

The final vote was 52-48. Two Democrats, Sens. Jon Tester of Montana and Joe Manchin of West Virginia, joined their 50 GOP colleagues in voting to repeal the requirement.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's getting hard to continue to give a fuck.

[Smoove_B]

It's getting hard to continue to give a fuck.

+1

I am experiencing professional despair at a level I did not think possible. My state tomorrow is announcing a major push to increase vaccine uptake. While important, we are never going to vaccinate our way out of this - we never were. And yet, it's the only thing being pushed locally all the way up to the federal government. And even with that, there are agents of chaos trying to undermine vaccination.

Meanwhile there are people on my community FB page asking how to get ivermectin and Senator Ron Johnson is telling people to gargle to prevent COVID-19 infections.

[Skinypupy]

And more on the mandate:

The Senate voted Wednesday night to overturn President Joe Biden's Covid-19 vaccine or testing mandate for private businesses with 100 or more employees.

While it likely won't become law since its chances of getting a vote in the House are uncertain and Biden is certain to veto it, the effort demonstrates the bipartisan opposition in Congress to the federal government's vaccine mandate for large employers.
The effort was led by Indiana Republican Sen. Mike Braun, and it needed just a simple majority of 51 votes to be approved by the chamber.

The final vote was 52-48. Two Democrats, Sens. Jon Tester of Montana and Joe Manchin of West Virginia, joined their 50 GOP colleagues in voting to repeal the requirement.

Two Dem votes - one from Little Lord Coalfinger - does not "bipartisan opposition" make.

[Pyperkub]

It's getting hard to continue to give a fuck.

Yes, but these fucks are also fucking over the rest of us by volunteering to be human Petrie dishes for new variants.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's getting hard to continue to give a fuck.

Yes, but these fucks are also fucking over the rest of us by volunteering to be human Petrie dishes for new variants.

But it's like getting upset when a thunderstorm rolls through. It's not something I can control. For better or worse, all my government representatives are party-line democrats and are in favor. What can I do about a venal asshole in West Virginia pandering to his bumblefuck constituents?

I refuse to tilt against windmills when I have enough other shit to do.

I care but I really can't devote any more time or energy to elected officials I have zero say in unelecting. Are they determined to kill fellow Americans? Sure seems like it. Can I do a damned thing about it? No.

And it's not like I'm inactive. This week I've spoken directly to 2 state reps and one US congressman. In one case I advocated for a local businesses who was getting the runaround on a state recovery grant. In another it was getting them face time at a public event I was speaking at. And for the federal rep I was encouraging him to keep pressure on the 1/6 shit.

But COVID on a national scale? Out of our hands and damned if I can summon any more energy to GAF. They want to burn it down? All we can do is be prepared. My go bags are packed. In the mean time I have to hyperfocus locally.

[Pyperkub]

Go bags are packed, but what's the destination?

[LawBeefaroni]

Go bags are packed, but what's the destination?

Depends on the situation. Could be a few dozen yards or a few hundred miles. I'm not talking a total collapse situation but severe civil unrest and public services breakdown.

[Blackhawk]

There comes a time when you realize you're not going to stop the launch. All you can do is duck, cover, and hope for the best.