Octopus Overlords

I'm not really a Hannity fan.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:06 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:03 pm This is so ludicrous. These people.

I wonder. Rather than Hannity needing Cohen's legal advice, maybe the Cohen-Hannity "client" relationship was a fiction to allow Trump to communicate with Hannity (and vice-versa) under a shield of attorney-client privilege? About what?

Way too much coincidence here. Cohen is far too shitty a lawyer to be anyone's straight-up lawyer. There's more to this.

I didn't know that ACP was transitive.

You clearly did not attend the esteemed Thomas M. Cooley Law School.

Kurth wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:51 amYou clearly did not attend the esteemed Thomas M. Cooley Law School.

I know this is meant to be funny (and is!) but the linked article is pretty trashy. Digging into the problems at the school in 2016 when he graduated a quarter century before is dumb. If the author really wanted to make the case they should have done the work and dug into its condition *back then*. FWIW, it is (and was at the time) accredited and presumably he passed the bar. I think his nonsense claims are more a function of his corruptness than anything.

Kurth wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:51 am

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:06 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:03 pm This is so ludicrous. These people.

I wonder. Rather than Hannity needing Cohen's legal advice, maybe the Cohen-Hannity "client" relationship was a fiction to allow Trump to communicate with Hannity (and vice-versa) under a shield of attorney-client privilege? About what?

Way too much coincidence here. Cohen is far too shitty a lawyer to be anyone's straight-up lawyer. There's more to this.

I didn't know that ACP was transitive.

You clearly did not attend the esteemed Thomas M. Cooley Law School.

Even if ACP doesn't apply, there are practical reasons to have your intermediary be an attorney. The government *is* loathe to touch arguably privileged materials (especially in high profile cases / defendants with resources). So the government's going to be less eager to delve into the communications / offices of a lawyer, because that's a BFD. Of course, as we've seen here, there is a point at which they will do that, so it's not foolproof.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 9:53 am

Kurth wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 12:51 am

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:06 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 16, 2018 4:03 pm This is so ludicrous. These people.

I wonder. Rather than Hannity needing Cohen's legal advice, maybe the Cohen-Hannity "client" relationship was a fiction to allow Trump to communicate with Hannity (and vice-versa) under a shield of attorney-client privilege? About what?

Way too much coincidence here. Cohen is far too shitty a lawyer to be anyone's straight-up lawyer. There's more to this.

I didn't know that ACP was transitive.

You clearly did not attend the esteemed Thomas M. Cooley Law School.

Even if ACP doesn't apply, there are practical reasons to have your intermediary be an attorney. The government *is* loathe to touch arguably privileged materials (especially in high profile cases / defendants with resources). So the government's going to be less eager to delve into the communications / offices of a lawyer, because that's a BFD. Of course, as we've seen here, there is a point at which they will do that, so it's not foolproof.

Pretty much. It's another layer of decent protection, but it's not absolute. Kind of like a condom.

So here's a question: Can Hannity's denials of having any contact with Cohen in any client-attorney relationship be taken into account when deciding whether the documents seized by the FBI are covered under client-attorney privilege? Say there's a document that has Hannity's name on it..since Hannity is denying employing Cohen at all doesn't that mean the document is fair game?

I haven't seen all of Hannity's statements on this, but he seems to be focusing on never having paid Cohen for representation. You don't have to pay a lawyer to be their client and receive the benefits of attorney-client privilege, however. If Cohen has a good team representing him (a legit question at this point), they could probably argue that Hannity was speaking colloquially and doesn't really understand how the attorney-client privilege is formed.

It's not a good look, though, as it could also be argued that Hannity is essentially waiving any form of AC privilege with his public statements, and I don't think the lawyer gets to keep it if the client has waived it.

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Apr 17, 2018 11:05 am So here's a question: Can Hannity's denials of having any contact with Cohen in any client-attorney relationship be taken into account when deciding whether the documents seized by the FBI are covered under client-attorney privilege? Say there's a document that has Hannity's name on it..since Hannity is denying employing Cohen at all doesn't that mean the document is fair game?

Well, it certainly doesn't help Cohen's arguments any. It's not foolproof, though - Hannity isn't denying any contact with Cohen, and he's said that he asked legal questions of Cohen from time to time. Asking legal questions to a lawyer can create attorney-client privilege around those discussions depending on the old "facts and circumstances".

That said, yeah the client saying no I wasn't his client isn't great for his arguments.

Um, so... the latest Russian journalist to accidentally trip and fall from a fifth-story balcony was investigating connections between oligarch Oleg Deripaska and Paul Manafort.


link

I recall the question reflects whether a reasonable person would expect their conversations with an attorney on legal matters to be confidential and in furtherance of an attorney-client relationship (whether paid or unpaid). Lawyers are not walking confidentiality shields.

Hannity's public response makes it problematic to make that argument.

Cohen really is a bad lawyer. I expect Trump has been coordinating with Hannity while Cohen listens. That means some interesting and embarrassing things may come out. Lay down with dogs and you can expect to catch fleas.

I was like, is that same guy from last year. Nope. Falling off balconies seems to be a common accident when it comes to investigating Russian Oligarchs related to Trump. And so, Fox and Rip and The Federalist to post post but Vince Foster with an out of context picture of Clinton in 3...2...

Uh oh. The simulation in which we are living has begun to access episodes of The Sopranos.

From the 1970s to the 1990s, the bosses of the Russian mob in the US ran their business out of an office in a club owned by Michael Cohen's family. It's very possible that the seizure of Cohen records will show how he is mobbed-up top to bottom and always has been.

This is from Josh Marshall, who has been looking into just how Michael Cohen found his way into the Russian underworld. Cohen is probably how Trump (who had nowhere else to turn when he became toxic to American banks) got there too.

I want to turn the channel now. I am so tired of this show.

Let's just step back for a minute and revisit when most of us first met Mr. Cohen, shall we?

Josh Marshall had best steer clear of the upper floors of any tall buildings.

tgb wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 7:02 am Let's just step back for a minute and revisit when most of us first met Mr. Cohen, shall we?

God, that was wonderful. And then heartbreaking when you remember everything that has happened since.

You know, at first I wasn't sure what to make of that sketch they released the other day and didn't see it as that consequential, but after hearing Drumpf tweet that it's fake I am now convinced: That man exists and must be found!

Sepiche wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:44 am You know, at first I wasn't sure what to make of that sketch they released the other day and didn't see it as that consequential, but after hearing Drumpf tweet that it's fake I am now convinced: That man exists and must be found!

It's Rob Lowe!

big

Sepiche wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 10:44 am You know, at first I wasn't sure what to make of that sketch they released the other day and didn't see it as that consequential, but after hearing Drumpf tweet that it's fake I am now convinced: That man exists and must be found!

Wait, has anyone met Rip in person?

Can never figure out which of these threads these belong in

Pastor Andrew Brunson, a fine gentleman and Christian leader in the United States, is on trial and being persecuted in Turkey for no reason. They call him a Spy, but I am more a Spy than he is. Hopefully he will be allowed to come home to his beautiful family where he belongs!

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:12 pm Can never figure out which of these threads these belong in

Pastor Andrew Brunson, a fine gentleman and Christian leader in the United States, is on trial and being persecuted in Turkey for no reason. They call him a Spy, but I am more a Spy than he is. Hopefully he will be allowed to come home to his beautiful family where he belongs!

"No, no Mr. President you're a spy for the Russians, he's a spy for the Americans... it's completely different."

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:12 pm Can never figure out which of these threads these belong in

Pastor Andrew Brunson, a fine gentleman and Christian leader in the United States, is on trial and being persecuted in Turkey for no reason. They call him a Spy, but I am more a Spy than he is. Hopefully he will be allowed to come home to his beautiful family where he belongs!

Without knowing much about the case, Trump is probably doing the right thing here. And yet, somehow he manages to be a complete dumbass while doing so. The first rule of being under investigation for foreign collusion is you don't publicly declare that you are more of a spy than someone else.

He isn't a spy. He is a puppet. Come on people get it right. Even Trump knows the Russians don't trust him enough/know he is too much of an idiot to use him as a spy.

Remus West wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 2:15 pm He isn't a spy. He is a puppet. Come on people get it right. Even Trump knows the Russians don't trust him enough/know he is too much of an idiot to use him as a spy.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 1:19 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Apr 18, 2018 12:12 pm Can never figure out which of these threads these belong in

Pastor Andrew Brunson, a fine gentleman and Christian leader in the United States, is on trial and being persecuted in Turkey for no reason. They call him a Spy, but I am more a Spy than he is. Hopefully he will be allowed to come home to his beautiful family where he belongs!

Without knowing much about the case, Trump is probably doing the right thing here. And yet, somehow he manages to be a complete dumbass while doing so. The first rule of being under investigation for foreign collusion is you don't publicly declare that you are more of a spy than someone else.

When you wake up in the White House in your James Bond 007 pajamas and guys with guns at your beck and call, you are a big, huge, greatest ever spy.

Nothing weird at all about this...you know aside that it directly contradicted the UN ambassador who spoke directly to the President.

Jim Acosta wrote:Senior admin official confirms to CNN that the Trump Admin informed the Russian embassy on Sunday that there would not be another round of sanctions for now.

I picture Trump standing outside the embassy like this



while hoping Putin forgives him.

Asked if Michael Cohen would ever flip on Trump, Cohen's lawyer said No because Cohen is "very loyal" ...apparently forgetting that he's supposed to believe Trump and Cohen are innocent.

Edit: Oops--the words are Anthony Scaramucci's, but the sentiment appears to be team-wide.

If When Cohen flips will he have to go into Witness Protection?

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:34 am NY Mag story about the above.

From the article:

One of the ways in which the scandals around President Trump have come to resemble a mob movie, other than the nature of the crimes themselves, is that nobody involved is putting up much of a pretense that Trump is innocent. Asked today by Katy Tur if “there’s any chance [Michael Cohen] would end up cooperating, flipping,” Anthony Scaramucci said no, because Cohen ‘is a very loyal person.”

Is Scaramucci now one of Trump's lawyers???

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:17 am

malchior wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 7:34 am NY Mag story about the above.

From the article:

One of the ways in which the scandals around President Trump have come to resemble a mob movie, other than the nature of the crimes themselves, is that nobody involved is putting up much of a pretense that Trump is innocent. Asked today by Katy Tur if “there’s any chance [Michael Cohen] would end up cooperating, flipping,” Anthony Scaramucci said no, because Cohen ‘is a very loyal person.”

Is Scaramucci now one of Trump's lawyers???

I mean, he's probably about as much of a lawyer as Cohen is.

I was going to post it in one of the job threads over on EBG, but I might was well announce it here. I was hired over the weekend as one of Trump's lawyers. Apparently my binge watching of CSI and Law & Order shows gave me the edge needed to get hired.

BTW, Trump is totally innocent. At least as long as the paychecks keep clearing.

Moliere wrote: ↑Thu Apr 19, 2018 10:33 am I was going to post it in one of the job threads over on EBG, but I might was well announce it here. I was hired over the weekend as one of Trump's lawyers. Apparently my binge watching of CSI and Law & Order shows gave me the edge needed to get hired.

BTW, Trump is totally innocent. At least as long as the paychecks keep clearing.

You may not have gotten the memo yet, but you apparently don't really need to pretend that he's innocent, notwithstanding your binding attorney-client relationship.

Erin Burnett's side eye is pretty top notch here.

Former Trump lawyer and surrogate says Cohen will flip because prison has “racial overtones” and Cohen doesn’t want to be a mans wife. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

The Onion: Nation’s Liberals Not Sure What To Think After Hearing Special Counsel Has Waterboarded Every Suspect In Trump Investigation

“I’ve stood firmly in support of Mueller, believing the president must be held accountable for his severe misdeeds, but I’m also against torture, so…I think this is probably wrong? Maybe?” said left-leaning voter Gregory Topper, who at first responded with horror to news that convicted campaign advisers Paul Manafort and Michael Flynn had been repeatedly subjected to simulated drowning, but then added that the nation must do everything in its power to stop a corrupt despot like Trump—and perhaps that included waterboarding, though perhaps not.

Justice Dept. turns over James Comey's memos on talks with Trump

The Justice Department on Thursday turned over to congressional committees a closely guarded set of memos that former FBI Director James Comey wrote recounting his conversations with President Donald Trump.

In a letter to three top Republican House chairmen, Assistant Attorney General Stephen Boyd said the department decided to provide lawmakers with the memos now because of "unusual events occurring since the previous limited disclosure."

Annnnnd...

If you're keeping score at home, it took 39 minutes for the Comey memos to get leaked.

Here you go.

This is goddamn ridiculous behavior. The Republicans would have hung the Democrats from the nearest light pole a million times now. At least now the DOJ (if they cared to) could easily point at this as the reason why they won't provide documents from active investigations to Congress.