Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint

[Octavious]

Trump tweet storm incoming.

Coronavirus Pandemic Pushes Cuomo to Record High Ratings; Voters Trust Cuomo over Trump on NY Reopening 78-16%.

It's already starting...

[Kraken]

Wow...that video is awesome and that reporter deserves an award for being there to document it.

It featured one of my favorite derp activities. They ask questions and then get mad when someone doesn't know random facts about their conspiracy theories. It is the calling card of the conspiracy moron.

The morona virus is spreading like wildfire there. It would be funny how stupidity is self-reinforcing if it weren't so dangerous.

[Z-Corn]

Wow...that video is awesome and that reporter deserves an award for being there to document it.

All Gas No Brakes!

I discovered his videos a couple weeks ago and they are all great. Watch for some guy rapping in every video. No matter where he is there will be somebody willing to freestyle into the camera.

[Daehawk]

[Paingod]

Needs more Trample, and apparently, Regen

[LordMortis]

https://www.deadlinedetroit.com/article ... nd-raising

Of course she's a good sport -- any politician would welcome the gift of you-matter credibility that "Saturday Night Live" gave Gretchen Whitmer this weekend.

The morning after a three-minute segment featuring Cecily Strong as Michigan's governor, the real version reacts with a laugh and a just-for-the-record clarification at the end of a live interview by Charlie Langton on Fox 2 News:

"It's kind of funny, but they got the beer wrong. It should have been a Michigan beer, not Labatt. We love Canada, but we drink Michigan beer."

The unopened craft brew she hoists is Two Hearted Ale from Bell's Brewery in Kalamazoo.

Truth. The Labatt thing threw me for a loop too.

[Max Peck]

New Zealand is leading the way.

New Zealand claims no community cases as lockdown eases

New Zealand says it has stopped community transmission of Covid-19, effectively eliminating the virus.

With new cases in single figures for several days - one on Sunday - Prime Minister Jacinda Ardern said the virus was "currently" eliminated.

But officials have warned against complacency, saying it does not mean a total end to new coronavirus cases.

The news came hours before New Zealand moved out of its toughest level of social restrictions.

From Tuesday, some non-essential business, healthcare and education activity will be able to resume.

Most people will still be required to remain at home at all times and avoid all social interactions.

"We are opening up the economy, but we're not opening up people's social lives," Ms Ardern said at the daily government briefing.

New Zealand has reported fewer than 1,500 confirmed or probable cases of coronavirus and 19 deaths.

New Zealand's Director-General of Health, Ashley Bloomfield, said the low number of new cases in recent days "does give us confidence that we have achieved our goal of elimination".

He warned that "elimination" did not mean there would be no new cases "but it does mean we know where our cases are coming from".

Ms Ardern said there was "no widespread undetected community transmission in New Zealand", adding: "We have won that battle."

But she said the country "must remain vigilant if we are to keep it that way".

[YellowKing]

Reopening based on data ? Or just pressure? (I’m not speaking about the hospitals changes )

Data.

Dr. Mandy Cohen, who is our Secretary of Health and Human Services, has been excellent at helping manage the pandemic response. She is extremely data driven in her decision-making, and served in the Obama administration for several years.

Cooper outlined four criteria that must be met to start Phase 1 re-opening, and they were very clear last week that despite announcing re-opening plans, the state had only met 1 of the 4 requirements. I don't see them bending to political pressure - the protests in NC have been fairly small and sporadic.

[Daehawk]

The TN Governor and the Hamilton County Mayor both decided to start opening stuff today. The Chattanooga City mayor was against it and said he would not allow the city to reopen. People were with him. But yesterday he said due to laws and other things that the city was unable to rule itself in this matter and had no choice but to follow the other idiots. So basically he cant run the city the way the city should be. Weird stuff.

[malchior]

Trump being his rock steady self as usual.

https://twitter.com/jmartNYT/status/1254863747262238720

After chastising @BrianKempGA for going too fast, Trump is now swinging in the other direction -- the prez told governors on a call today they should consider reopening schools

"maybe get going on it," Trump said >

[Skinypupy]

I’ve said it before, but it’s worth reiterating here.

When you consider that the GOPs primary objective is to destroy every remaining shred of public faith and trust in the federal government so they can farm everything out to private industry, Trump has been successful beyond even their wildest dreams.

[malchior]

I’ve said it before, but it’s worth reiterating here.

When you consider that the GOPs primary objective is to destroy every remaining shred of public faith and trust in the federal government so they can farm everything out to private industry, Trump has been successful beyond even their wildest dreams.

Totally. Tonight's coronavirus show is a parade of CEOs kissing Trump's ass for his great leadership. #neosociopathsonparade.

https://twitter.com/joelockhart/status/ ... 4641532928

subtext of today's briefing...you don't believe me American public, listen to a bunch of rich white ceo guys who are even less credible.

[Pyperkub]

Did Trump announce that he's pleased to announce that he had made them all richer again?

[malchior]

Some glimmers of hope on the vaccine front.

[hitbyambulance]

Loving watching the California checklist of events and measures they need to assess and hit before they can ease up on restrictions - which flies in direct contradiction to Trump's "I CONTROL THE STATES" tantrum earlier. Like a beautiful slap in the face. A great big middle finger to him. I love it.

This sort of actual rational, reasonable, adult briefing is what Americans need. Not hissy fits and finger-pointing. Not suggesting "Some of you may have to die for our economy" ...

The frustrating part (one of the many frustrating parts?) is that this got comparatively minor coverage vs Trump's campaign rally, yet this and the similar east-coast pact are by far more impactful.

NV and CO has joined the West Coast Pact (already consisting of WA, OR and CA). i believe ID has declined to sign up, probably the same with UT.

[Zarathud]

Trump's new position that the federal government shouldn't act until everything else has failed is GOP dogma taken to its extreme.

But that narrative is up against not just reality but a well-worn movie genre -- from Contagion to Resident Evil, heck even Marvel to E.T. -- where there's a government response to pandemics or major apocalyptic crises.

[Skinypupy]

i believe ID has declined to sign up, probably the same with UT.

Sigh.

There are lots of things I love about living here. The conservative ultra-derp is not one of them.

[Paingod]

Fox News pushes to stop flattening the curve and thinks that 50,000+ deaths in the US isn't potent enough to call it "deadly" - whines that all these coronavirus cases are bad for business in hospitals. Goes on to complain that Fauci isn't discouraging people from having sex, but is advising against shaking hands with dozens of strangers a day and this is somehow unacceptable. Finishes by complaining that SARS was stopped before it could kill enough people to justify the millions spent looking for a vaccine. So much awesome.

[Smoove_B]

Tucker Carlson is a meat whistle and when the time comes, I genuinely hope he's among the first that is up against the wall.

[LawBeefaroni]

Fox News pushes to stop flattening the curve and thinks that 50,000+ deaths in the US isn't potent enough to call it "deadly" - whines that all these coronavirus cases are bad for business in hospitals. Goes on to complain that Fauci isn't discouraging people from having sex, but is advising against shaking hands with dozens of strangers a day and this is somehow unacceptable. Finishes by complaining that SARS was stopped before it could kill enough people to justify the millions spent looking for a vaccine. So much awesome.

That "briefing" looked staged. It looked like it was meant to look like a press briefing while there was no press present.

So I went looking for about 5 seconds:

They dressed in scrubs. They sounded scientific. And last week’s message from two Bakersfield doctors was exactly what many stuck-at-home Americans wanted to hear: COVID-19 is no worse than influenza, its death rates are low and we should all go back to work and school.

Drs. Dan Erickson and Artin Massihi, who own urgent care centers in the region, had called a press conference to release their conclusions about the results of 5,213 COVID-19 tests they had conducted at their centers and testing site. They claimed the results showed that the virus had spread further in the area, undetected, and thus wasn’t all that dangerous.


But public health experts were quick to debunk the doctors’ findings as misguided and riddled with statistical errors — and an example of the kind of misleading information they are forced to waste precious time disputing.

The doctors should never have assumed that the patients they tested — who came for walk-in COVID-19 tests or who sought urgent care for symptoms they experienced in the middle of a pandemic — are representative of the general population, said Dr. Carl Bergstrom, a University of Washington biologist who specializes in infectious disease modeling. He likened their extrapolations to “estimating the average height of Americans from the players on an NBA court.” And most credible studies of COVID-19 death rates in reality are far higher than the ones the doctors presented.

“They’ve used methods that are ludicrous to get results that are completely implausible,” Bergstrom said.

Still, the early media coverage went viral. A local television report on the Bakersfield doctors’ press conference garnered more than 4.3 million views on YouTube. Elon Musk, the Tesla founder who wants to reopen his Fremont manufacturing plant this week, praised the doctors to his 33 million-plus Twitter followers. Tonight, the doctors are to get a conservative national audience for their views on Fox News, appearing on Laura Ingraham’s show.

In a rare statement late today, the American College of Emergency Physicians and the American Academy of Emergency Medicine declared they “emphatically condemn the recent opinions released by Dr. Daniel Erickson and Dr. Artin Messihi. These reckless and untested musings do not speak for medical societies and are inconsistent with current science and epidemiology regarding COVID-19. As owners of local urgent care clinics, it appears these two individuals are releasing biased, non-peer reviewed data to advance their personal financial interests without regard for the public’s health.”

[Paingod]

That "briefing" looked staged. It looked like it was meant to look like a press briefing while there was no press present.

I'm also wildly skeptical of anyone who stands in singular opposition to overwhelming voices on the other side of "the evidence". It typically leads me to lean towards a miscalculation or misdirection by the rogue element.

[Blackhawk]

I understand that an Illinois judge has just blocked the extension of the Governor's stay-at-home order. If so...

"This is gonna get pretty interesting."

"Define interesting"

"Oh, God, oh, god, we're all gonna die."

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, we've clearly entered the next stage - this is a "blue state" problem and it doesn't concern us. We're going to open and if you try and stop us we're going to sue. For example - New Mexico:

The mayor of a small New Mexico city and several dozen supporters rallied Monday as he encouraged business owners in his community to defy the governor's lockdown order that shuttered nonessential shops to prevent the spread of the coronavirus. Grants Mayor Martin "Modey" Hicks vowed in defiance last week to allow all small businesses to reopen.

The move comes as some rural communities across the country are pressuring their state and local officials to allow them to reopen their towns amid rising unemployment and economic turmoil.

Here's the thing - they might be safe. They might even be safe for weeks and everything is going to seem normal. I know in my red-voter corner of NJ, the locals are frothing over what's happening. I'm stunned at what I've been seeing posted - the number of mentally unwell people ("They're going to microchip us! This is a plandemic!") is really surprising me - more so than the number of secret MAGA cultists that were around. For them, this is absolutely political and they're convinced our (D) governor is personally out to get them.

Historians are going to write volumes about how this all unfolded. The combination of social media and political dogma undermining public health - it's unprecedented.

[Jeff V]

I understand that an Illinois judge has just blocked the extension of the Governor's stay-at-home order. If so...

"This is gonna get pretty interesting."

"Define interesting"

"Oh, God, oh, god, we're all gonna die."

But only for that one guy, nobody else. And the governor is going to challenge that ruling.

[Paingod]

They might even be safe for weeks and everything is going to seem normal.

Isn't it more like the longer we're in lockdown, the further back the clock gets reset on COVID worries - and coming out of lockdown right now is going to be like re-entering the US in early February... "Hey, we've got 15 cases and it's magically going to go away." ... and then two months later we're back to lockdown as tens of thousands more are dead...?

[Smoove_B]

Yes. All we're doing now is buying time for medical services to not be overwhelmed. Anything that encourages resumption of (what was) normal activities promotes conditions where it can all start up again. The larger the scale (small town USA vs Atlanta, GA) the larger the risk (and potential damage). Over and over again I keep seeing people complain about what they can't do, what they're now restricted from doing. It's all about them and what they want. There is zero (ZERO) sense of how these decisions impact others. I know that's not a unique observation, but it really is the core element. *I* want to be able to get a haircut. *I* want to be able to go shopping. *I* want to go to the park. Not once do I ever see an acknowledgement that individual decisions potentially impact others. Never. And not just potentially getting random strangers sick. No consideration of what you're asking medical staff to endure.

[LawBeefaroni]

I understand that an Illinois judge has just blocked the extension of the Governor's stay-at-home order. If so...

"This is gonna get pretty interesting."

"Define interesting"

"Oh, God, oh, god, we're all gonna die."

A lot of temporary healthcare policies are based on the duration of the stay-at-home order. When it goes, they're supposed to go too. Things like waived cost-sharing (copays, etc) and the allowance of telemedicine for example. It's already a nightmare keeping up with day to day changes, I really don't want to see a quasi order or the worse, an on-off-on-off battle in courts with a flurry of stays and reinstatement.


It's the current America though. Object based purely on political party and do your best to burn down the other side because the goal is to win on paper. Fuck the good of anyone, get your win, get party points.

[malchior]

Over and over again I keep seeing people complain about what they can't do, what they're now restricted from doing. It's all about them and what they want. There is zero (ZERO) sense of how these decisions impact others. I know that's not a unique observation, but it really is the core element. *I* want to be able to get a haircut. *I* want to be able to go shopping. *I* want to go to the park. Not once do I ever see an acknowledgement that individual decisions potentially impact others. Never. And not just potentially getting random strangers sick. No consideration of what you're asking medical staff to endure.

Tom Wolfe would have been entirely unsurprised by this development. If anything has become clear in this pandemic and gradually over the last 40 years, it is that Americans collectively are selfish and culturally broken to such a degree that collective progress has become impossible in this nation. We are failing and maybe it'll be good for those of us who make it through this time. We can choose to fix it. And if we don't we deserve everything that happens. Many don't deserve this but they didn't know what they were up against. There can be no mistaking it now.

[ImLawBoy]

Yes. All we're doing now is buying time for medical services to not be overwhelmed. Anything that encourages resumption of (what was) normal activities promotes conditions where it can all start up again. The larger the scale (small town USA vs Atlanta, GA) the larger the risk (and potential damage). Over and over again I keep seeing people complain about what they can't do, what they're now restricted from doing. It's all about them and what they want. There is zero (ZERO) sense of how these decisions impact others. I know that's not a unique observation, but it really is the core element. *I* want to be able to get a haircut. *I* want to be able to go shopping. *I* want to go to the park. Not once do I ever see an acknowledgement that individual decisions potentially impact others. Never. And not just potentially getting random strangers sick. No consideration of what you're asking medical staff to endure.

I don't think that's fair. Both from a cynical perspective (there is acknowledgement in many cases that opening the economy will lead to more deaths, it's just that they're willing to make that trade off) and from a less cynical perspective. There are people that are hurting economically out there, and they're worried about what this is doing to the economy both in the short term and long term. I'm fully supportive of stay at home, but I do try to recognize my privileges when talking about this. I can work from home, I make good money, and I've got savings if something happens to my job. Others aren't so lucky and they're really wondering how they're going to survive the economic crash. They're worried for themselves, but they're also worried about others - small business owners, restaurants and their employees, etc.

Again, I still fully support stay at home, and there are certainly some people arguing to end the stay at home orders purely out of selfishness, but it's just not accurate to say that there is no consideration of others in some of their arguments.

[Smoove_B]

All true. But what I can say from what's being vocalized locally in my red corner of NJ is that the small business owners aren't the ones complaining right now. Instead it's randos that are "inconvenienced". I absolutely know I'm lucky right now as I'm still getting paid and able to work from home. I have genuine concern for those unable to work, pay bills or get food - and I'll help them any way I can. But I won't endorse or promote things that would put them, their families or front-line medical workers in danger. There has to be another way.

[Zaxxon]

Yes. All we're doing now is buying time for medical services to not be overwhelmed. Anything that encourages resumption of (what was) normal activities promotes conditions where it can all start up again. The larger the scale (small town USA vs Atlanta, GA) the larger the risk (and potential damage). Over and over again I keep seeing people complain about what they can't do, what they're now restricted from doing. It's all about them and what they want. There is zero (ZERO) sense of how these decisions impact others. I know that's not a unique observation, but it really is the core element. *I* want to be able to get a haircut. *I* want to be able to go shopping. *I* want to go to the park. Not once do I ever see an acknowledgement that individual decisions potentially impact others. Never. And not just potentially getting random strangers sick. No consideration of what you're asking medical staff to endure.

I don't think that's fair. Both from a cynical perspective (there is acknowledgement in many cases that opening the economy will lead to more deaths, it's just that they're willing to make that trade off) and from a less cynical perspective. There are people that are hurting economically out there, and they're worried about what this is doing to the economy both in the short term and long term. I'm fully supportive of stay at home, but I do try to recognize my privileges when talking about this. I can work from home, I make good money, and I've got savings if something happens to my job. Others aren't so lucky and they're really wondering how they're going to survive the economic crash. They're worried for themselves, but they're also worried about others - small business owners, restaurants and their employees, etc.

Again, I still fully support stay at home, and there are certainly some people arguing to end the stay at home orders purely out of selfishness, but it's just not accurate to say that there is no consideration of others in some of their arguments.

This. For a substantial part of the population, the economic side really is as bad as a major and potentially deadly health issue.

I'm in the same boat as ImLawBoy in that personally I'm all for doing the right thing from a public health perspective, but I can see how I might feel differently if my entire financial situation had already been destroyed by it.

[Zaxxon]

And I also agree that the agitators here aren't primarily composed of regular folks actually destroyed financially.

[Isgrimnur]

To cannibalize a Second Amendment argument,

When days count, the government is months away.

[El Guapo]

Yes. All we're doing now is buying time for medical services to not be overwhelmed. Anything that encourages resumption of (what was) normal activities promotes conditions where it can all start up again. The larger the scale (small town USA vs Atlanta, GA) the larger the risk (and potential damage). Over and over again I keep seeing people complain about what they can't do, what they're now restricted from doing. It's all about them and what they want. There is zero (ZERO) sense of how these decisions impact others. I know that's not a unique observation, but it really is the core element. *I* want to be able to get a haircut. *I* want to be able to go shopping. *I* want to go to the park. Not once do I ever see an acknowledgement that individual decisions potentially impact others. Never. And not just potentially getting random strangers sick. No consideration of what you're asking medical staff to endure.

I don't think that's fair. Both from a cynical perspective (there is acknowledgement in many cases that opening the economy will lead to more deaths, it's just that they're willing to make that trade off) and from a less cynical perspective. There are people that are hurting economically out there, and they're worried about what this is doing to the economy both in the short term and long term. I'm fully supportive of stay at home, but I do try to recognize my privileges when talking about this. I can work from home, I make good money, and I've got savings if something happens to my job. Others aren't so lucky and they're really wondering how they're going to survive the economic crash. They're worried for themselves, but they're also worried about others - small business owners, restaurants and their employees, etc.

Again, I still fully support stay at home, and there are certainly some people arguing to end the stay at home orders purely out of selfishness, but it's just not accurate to say that there is no consideration of others in some of their arguments.

Also it seems like we really do need to be having conversations about what can be reopened and how in a way that's as safe as possible (and what can't be done at all safely while we're dealing with coronavirus). In the end there is going to be a limit on what people can go through on a shutdown both economically and just as a matter of being people, so what can we do, how, and when is going to be important and inevitable.

[malchior]

Yes. All we're doing now is buying time for medical services to not be overwhelmed. Anything that encourages resumption of (what was) normal activities promotes conditions where it can all start up again. The larger the scale (small town USA vs Atlanta, GA) the larger the risk (and potential damage). Over and over again I keep seeing people complain about what they can't do, what they're now restricted from doing. It's all about them and what they want. There is zero (ZERO) sense of how these decisions impact others. I know that's not a unique observation, but it really is the core element. *I* want to be able to get a haircut. *I* want to be able to go shopping. *I* want to go to the park. Not once do I ever see an acknowledgement that individual decisions potentially impact others. Never. And not just potentially getting random strangers sick. No consideration of what you're asking medical staff to endure.

I don't think that's fair. Both from a cynical perspective (there is acknowledgement in many cases that opening the economy will lead to more deaths, it's just that they're willing to make that trade off) and from a less cynical perspective. There are people that are hurting economically out there, and they're worried about what this is doing to the economy both in the short term and long term. I'm fully supportive of stay at home, but I do try to recognize my privileges when talking about this. I can work from home, I make good money, and I've got savings if something happens to my job. Others aren't so lucky and they're really wondering how they're going to survive the economic crash. They're worried for themselves, but they're also worried about others - small business owners, restaurants and their employees, etc.

Again, I still fully support stay at home, and there are certainly some people arguing to end the stay at home orders purely out of selfishness, but it's just not accurate to say that there is no consideration of others in some of their arguments.

This. For a substantial part of the population, the economic side really is as bad as a major and potentially deadly health issue.

I'm in the same boat as ImLawBoy in that personally I'm all for doing the right thing from a public health perspective, but I can see how I might feel differently if my entire financial situation had already been destroyed by it.

Sure but that won't be fixed by this. In industries that stayed open the workforces were decimated by virus to a point that Trump may be ordering an EO to keep meat packers open. I don't know how since the workers are all sick.

Edit: (Saw you covered this but that changes the math significantly IMO) And they probably aren't the people out on the streets complaining. They are mostly being whipped out of their homes by astro turfers. There are a lot of people suffering but throwing open the doors of business doesn't fix the long or short-term economic issues and doesn't help the public health issues. It should be a dead bill.

[malchior]

I don't think that's fair. Both from a cynical perspective (there is acknowledgement in many cases that opening the economy will lead to more deaths, it's just that they're willing to make that trade off) and from a less cynical perspective. There are people that are hurting economically out there, and they're worried about what this is doing to the economy both in the short term and long term. I'm fully supportive of stay at home, but I do try to recognize my privileges when talking about this. I can work from home, I make good money, and I've got savings if something happens to my job. Others aren't so lucky and they're really wondering how they're going to survive the economic crash. They're worried for themselves, but they're also worried about others - small business owners, restaurants and their employees, etc.

Again, I still fully support stay at home, and there are certainly some people arguing to end the stay at home orders purely out of selfishness, but it's just not accurate to say that there is no consideration of others in some of their arguments.

I think those people are right to worry about it. I'm also privileged to fully stay at home, my situation is pretty hairy even then in one of the worst afflicted areas, and my wife is going to the factory every other day. We are all worried about it.

It is more a comment that the cynical argument is being driven by a *very* small group of the wealthiest and they are channeling through people they know are themselves selfish and motivated by all the wrong reasons. They've been misled for years to build an outrage megaphone that drowns out reasonable discourse. That is unfortunately a reality of our broken politics. And it drives the good people into further despair because we can't get our shit together to have anything approaching a sensible way to move forward to help them.

[raydude]

Maybe some of what folks are protesting is the right to earn a living but it sure doesn't come across that way with the signs and the chanting. I don't see their central message as "I want to WORK!" Instead, it's all consumer side chanting like "I want to get a haircut".

But then again, arguing which Sophie's choice we should follow is ignoring the basic truth - we can't expect the economy to re-open and stabilize unless we get more tests out there. Without those tests it doesn't really matter if businesses open. If businesses open and people start dying again then people won't be going out and working/spending in enough numbers to matter. Or, even if they do, the death toll will make it unsustainable in the long run.

[Skinypupy]

My brother is an anesthesiologist and is part-owner of a group that services several hospitals. They made the decision as a group to make a significant cut (around 40%) to their group member’s pay for the next few months due to the crisis. No elective surgeries means far less need for anesthesiologists so less money coming into the group.

When they announced this, the doctors were furious. Three of the five suggested that they get rid of more support staff in order to keep the doctor’s pay at the same level. When my brother mentioned that they would rather not destroy the support staff’s livelihoods, the doctors replied “but what about my income?”

He was disgusted with the idea that people who are remarkably well off (the lowest paid doctor in their group makes over $500K/year) would rather see someone else straight up fired rather than be willing to temporarily sacrifice some of their income to make it through this.

I realize this is a single anecdote, but it's concerning to me that the “health be damned…I’m losing money here!” attitude is coming from not only those who are very well off and should be able to manage (yes, I get that having lots of money doesn't necessarily mean they manage it well), but from those who are healthcare providers as well.

[Unagi]

Well.

Anesthesiologist at least.

[Smoove_B]

I realize this is a single anecdote, but it's concerning to me that the “health be damned…I’m losing money here!” attitude is coming from not only those who are very well off and should be able to manage (yes, I get that having lots of money doesn't necessarily mean they manage it well), but from those who are healthcare providers as well.

I can offer another. I work in higher education. Well, worked. As of a few weeks ago, I was told my services were no longer needed. The group I'm part of (~3000 individuals that teach ~1/3 of all courses) represents 1% of the overall budget for the organization. Sportsball coaches agreed to take a 10% cut for the next 4 months in recognition of the belt tightening. For reference, the new football coach makes $330K a month, so now he'll be down to $300K a month. However will he survive? Far be it from me to comment on the core mission of higher education, but when you're scrapping the people that teach 1/3 of your credit hours, it really makes me question the organizational mission. I strongly suspect higher education is going to implode with all this as well - which will be strange because historically the demand for education goes up during and after a crisis. The issue is cost and the insane administrative bloat that exists. Maybe this is something that should be in the economy thread. If I can find something worth sharing, I will.

/rant off