Octopus Overlords

i have no idea why The Wind-Up Girl is on that list. i suppose the 'world-building' was good. everything else (i.e. the story itself) was formulaic or flat.

in any case, the comments to that article make some very good 'further reading' suggestions as well.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:51 pm Why does it say 21 and then show 17? I'm missing page 2?

I think it's an editing mistake on their end, showing that at one time the list may have been longer. In any case, I consider myself well-read, and I've read about half of these: Hitchhiker's Guide, 20,000 Leagues, War of the Worlds, Dune, the entire Foundation series prequels and all, Stranger in a Strange Land (Which I wouldn't recommend), Snow Crash, and Martian Chronicles.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:51 pmWhy does it say 21 and then show 17? I'm missing page 2?

Because it was originally created in 2016 and has only been recently updated to reflect more current books or different picks. It's possible there's an original archive somewhere. In short - sloppy editing and a failure to write accurate, updated introductions to the article. Why it was republished without correction is a mystery.

It should be no surprise that Time Traveling Daehawk promoted it.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:08 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:01 am

I've only read two and they are both on Blackhawk's list. I read a lot more fantasy than sci-fi.

That's my issue, too. I'd likely score better on a similar list for fantasy.

Here we go: The Most Influential Fantasy Books

On this one I'm 10/17, with the caveat that I haven't read every single book in some of those series. I've not read Elric (though I own it), anything Lovecraft, Game of Thrones, The Worm Ouroboros,
Gormenghast, King of Elfland's Daughter, or Lyonesse.

Stupid damn companies and their stupid damn automated phone lines. I got a letter in the mail from a life insurance company today. I have a policy with them but the letter is to my wife. So I called hoping to find out more info on whats going on. It said I had a policy with the number I called with but theres a problem with that as well. I go through their stupid menu and it says plz hold for the next available support member. Then it says something about extension numbers and since I dont know any says thanks for calling and hangs up. this took me 10 min to get to that point. WTFH. Thats not a helpful support!

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:37 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:08 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:01 am

I've only read two and they are both on Blackhawk's list. I read a lot more fantasy than sci-fi.

That's my issue, too. I'd likely score better on a similar list for fantasy.

Here we go: The Most Influential Fantasy Books

I have read:
1. Lord of the Rings
2. Amber
10. Wheel of Time (first 3 books)
11. A Game of Thrones
12. The Black Company
13. H. P. Lovecraft

Any such list without The First Law by Abercrombie is dead to me.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:37 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:08 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:01 am

I've only read two and they are both on Blackhawk's list. I read a lot more fantasy than sci-fi.

That's my issue, too. I'd likely score better on a similar list for fantasy.

Here we go: The Most Influential Fantasy Books

On this one I'm 10/17, with the caveat that I haven't read every single book in some of those series. I've not read Elric (though I own it), anything Lovecraft, Game of Thrones, The Worm Ouroboros,
Gormenghast, King of Elfland's Daughter, or Lyonesse.

6 for me, apparently I don't like influential works.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:37 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 12:08 pm

coopasonic wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 11:01 am

I've only read two and they are both on Blackhawk's list. I read a lot more fantasy than sci-fi.

That's my issue, too. I'd likely score better on a similar list for fantasy.

Here we go: The Most Influential Fantasy Books

On this one I'm 10/17, with the caveat that I haven't read every single book in some of those series. I've not read Elric (though I own it), anything Lovecraft, Game of Thrones, The Worm Ouroboros,
Gormenghast, King of Elfland's Daughter, or Lyonesse.

According to that page, Harry Potter was written by Frank Herbert.

Heh. It was hard to find a list that wasn't just a trendy popularity contest. I'd say that their choices are at least decent (you can't do influential fantasy without mentioning Leiber, Howard, etc.)

I had read less than 10% of that list.
And I used to be an avid sci fi/ fantasy reader. I used to go thru two books a week.
(none of which were Harry Potter)

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 6:27 pm I had read less than 10% of that list.
And I used to be an avid sci fi/ fantasy reader. I used to go thru two books a week.
(none of which were Harry Potter)

I'm sort of surprised - much of that list tends towards the fairly old and fairly popular. Little of it was new when I read most of it 35-40 years ago.

I've read 12/17

Lord of the Rings
Chronicles of Amber
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser
A Wizard of Earthsea
The Wheel of Time
A Game of Thrones
The Black Company
Lovecraft
Chronicles of Narnia
Harry Potter Series
Sword of Shannara
Elric of Melnibone (Blood and souls for my lord Arioch!)

I also read a lot of historical fiction. Also I prefer sci fi to fantasy.
Now a days I read fairly new sci fi (you alls recommendations)or I read military history.
For instance I just finished reading about Nomonhan 1939 (Khalkhin Gol). A rather large battle between the Russians and the Japanese.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:19 am I also read a lot of historical fiction. Also I prefer sci fi to fantasy.
Now a days I read fairly new sci fi (you alls recommendations)or I read military history.
For instance I just finished reading about Nomonhan 1939 (Khalkhin Gol). A rather large battle between the Russians and the Japanese.

I recommend A Frozen Hell. Maybe wait until summer though.

Only three on the fantasy list, which doesn't surprise me.

1. The Lord of the Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien
11. A Game of Thrones by George R.R. Martin
13. H.P. Lovecraft (I don't know if I've read all of his stuff, but I've read a big enough chunk for it to count)

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:37 pm I've not read ... anything Lovecraft

You've been around on Octopus Overlords for how long and never read any Lovecraft!? Such grasping, sepulchral, sinewy degeneration... !

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:47 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:37 pm I've not read ... anything Lovecraft

You've been around on Octopus Overlords for how long and never read any Lovecraft!? Such grasping, sepulchral, sinewy degeneration... !

In my life, I have read one half of one novel that might be considered horror, mostly due to author's reputation (although half of The Stand probably counts for two novels worth...)

I've avoided Lovecraft. I shouldn't. I know why I do, and it is a silly, childish reason: Lovecraft fans are so pushy that they get under my skin. It's kind of like anime: If you're a fan, every other genre, setting, and hobby is fair game to converted. If you're not a fan, it's like an aftertaste that gets applied to everything you eat.

I'd probably love... Lovecraft. There's just this veneer of annoyance that crops up any time I consider it due to the way it's always pushed everywhere.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 10:52 am

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 9:19 am I also read a lot of historical fiction. Also I prefer sci fi to fantasy.
Now a days I read fairly new sci fi (you alls recommendations)or I read military history.
For instance I just finished reading about Nomonhan 1939 (Khalkhin Gol). A rather large battle between the Russians and the Japanese.

I recommend A Frozen Hell. Maybe wait until summer though.

As a matter of fact I have read that book. The Russo Finnish War is one of my favorite subjects.

Isn't the author the guy from the Wargamer ?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:07 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:47 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:37 pm I've not read ... anything Lovecraft

You've been around on Octopus Overlords for how long and never read any Lovecraft!? Such grasping, sepulchral, sinewy degeneration... !

In my life, I have read one half of one novel that might be considered horror, mostly due to author's reputation (although half of The Stand probably counts for two novels worth...)

I've avoided Lovecraft. I shouldn't. I know why I do, and it is a silly, childish reason: Lovecraft fans are so pushy that they get under my skin. It's kind of like anime: If you're a fan, every other genre, setting, and hobby is fair game to converted. If you're not a fan, it's like an aftertaste that gets applied to everything you eat.

I'd probably love... Lovecraft. There's just this veneer of annoyance that crops up any time I consider it due to the way it's always pushed everywhere.

Rest assured, you needn't be a Lovecraft fanatic to appreciate his writing and influence. It's certainly an acquired taste.

On the bright side though, most of his stories are public domain and some of his best work are short stories. So I'd suggest dipping your toes into the gelatinous ichor with The Colour Out of Space short story. If nothing else, it'll help provide some insight into the profound influence his writing continues to have on so many aspects of geek culture (i.e. RPGs, tabletop games, PC games, movies and so on). But if it doesn't float your goat, his writing probably just ain't your cuppa.

Lovecraft has some really good stories and he has some that are crap.
Just like most authors.

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:44 pmRest assured, you needn't be a Lovecraft fanatic to appreciate his writing and influence. It's certainly an acquired taste.

It was nice to see this in this RPG supplement, Fate of Cthulhu:

I keep getting scam e-mails from "paypal" telling me my account is in trouble.
You would think they'd realize I've never had a Paypal account.
And here lately I've been getting some really good looking e-mails from Amazon telling me I have problems with my account.
If they wouldn't spoil it with "please respond to this e-mail only. Do not contact Amazon."
I feel like emailing them and giving them constructive criticism.

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:47 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:37 pm I've not read ... anything Lovecraft

You've been around on Octopus Overlords for how long and never read any Lovecraft!? Such grasping, sepulchral, sinewy degeneration... !

Well, he's not the only one. Never read Lovecraft either. But in my defense, I just generally don't read horror as I've never been particularly attracted to it, therefore never been part of my wheelhouse. Though I do notice it a lot in pop-culture.

Btw, Lovecraft himself appears in an episode of Murdoch Mysteries. Season 10, Episode 16: https://murdochmysteries.fandom.com/wik ... _Lovecraft

hitbyambulance wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:40 pm i have no idea why The Wind-Up Girl is on that list. i suppose the 'world-building' was good. everything else (i.e. the story itself) was formulaic or flat.

in any case, the comments to that article make some very good 'further reading' suggestions as well.

That book's publisher annoys the hell out of me. I've had it on my wishlist since bill harris first posted about it in probably 2010. It's currently 10.49 on kindle, and may have once, in over a decade dropped below 9.99 (to 7.99). Fuck Apple for screwing up eBook prices.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 1:32 am The Most Influential Science-Fiction Books Of All Time

#14 The Forever War by Joe Haldeman (1979)

#2 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne (1870)

I've read 13/17.

IMHO, there are some huge misses on the list:

Orwell's 1984 (WTF? Duh).

Mary Shelley's Frankenstein should probably be there and I remember when reading Niven and Pournelle's Inferno, that they made the argument that Dante's Inferno was the first ever Science Fiction story, taking the most advanced science of the time - Theology - and writing a story of it.

Side note, I have a first edition of A Princess of Mars - I remember looking it up and it was going for about $400. I also have one of the original Ace paperbacks of Neuromancer , and that is going for ~$600. Not sure I agree with that, but go figure.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 3:50 pm IMHO, there are some huge misses on the list:

Orwell's 1984 (WTF? Duh).

Mary Shelley's Frankenstein should probably be there and I remember when reading Niven and Pournelle's Inferno, that they made the argument that Dante's Inferno was the first ever Science Fiction story, taking the most advanced science of the time - Theology - and writing a story of it.

Side note, I have a first edition of A Princess of Mars - I remember looking it up and it was going for about $400. I also have one of the original Ace paperbacks of Neuromancer , and that is going for ~$600. Not sure I agree with that, but go figure.

I was glad to see Neuromancer. I was shocked not to see Endor's Game. But then, as shown in what I've read, I'm not a SciFi novel well versed guy. I don't think of 1984 as SciFi, just distopian. Much as I think of The Trial.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:07 pm
I've avoided Lovecraft. I shouldn't. I know why I do, and it is a silly, childish reason: Lovecraft fans are so pushy that they get under my skin. It's kind of like anime: If you're a fan, every other genre, setting, and hobby is fair game to converted. If you're not a fan, it's like an aftertaste that gets applied to everything you eat.

I'd probably love... Lovecraft. There's just this veneer of annoyance that crops up any time I consider it due to the way it's always pushed everywhere.

you could just read Lord Dunsany, Algernon Blackwood and Arthur Machen instead. casual fans be like 'who?', and you've gone closer to the source.

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:44 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:07 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 11:47 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Wed Feb 26, 2020 2:37 pm I've not read ... anything Lovecraft

You've been around on Octopus Overlords for how long and never read any Lovecraft!? Such grasping, sepulchral, sinewy degeneration... !

In my life, I have read one half of one novel that might be considered horror, mostly due to author's reputation (although half of The Stand probably counts for two novels worth...)

I've avoided Lovecraft. I shouldn't. I know why I do, and it is a silly, childish reason: Lovecraft fans are so pushy that they get under my skin. It's kind of like anime: If you're a fan, every other genre, setting, and hobby is fair game to converted. If you're not a fan, it's like an aftertaste that gets applied to everything you eat.

I'd probably love... Lovecraft. There's just this veneer of annoyance that crops up any time I consider it due to the way it's always pushed everywhere.

Rest assured, you needn't be a Lovecraft fanatic to appreciate his writing and influence. It's certainly an acquired taste.

On the bright side though, most of his stories are public domain and some of his best work are short stories. So I'd suggest dipping your toes into the gelatinous ichor with The Colour Out of Space short story. If nothing else, it'll help provide some insight into the profound influence his writing continues to have on so many aspects of geek culture (i.e. RPGs, tabletop games, PC games, movies and so on). But if it doesn't float your goat, his writing probably just ain't your cuppa.

You could also try Lovecraft Country

The critically acclaimed cult novelist makes visceral the terrors of life in Jim Crow America and its lingering effects in this brilliant and wondrous work of the imagination that melds historical fiction, pulp noir, and Lovecraftian horror and fantasy

Years ago I bought myself a Fisher Space Pen. Its been the best writing pen Ive ever used. The original cartridge in it lasted until yesterday. Luckily I had a refill on hand. Though its blue and not black like the original.The pen has just the right weight to it and feel and grip. Its very smooth as it writes and of course being a Space Pen it will write at any angle or upsidedown. I love it. So glad I got it. I need to look into getting a new refill cart for it for the future.

this is the ballpoint:

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 2:17 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Feb 27, 2020 12:44 pmRest assured, you needn't be a Lovecraft fanatic to appreciate his writing and influence. It's certainly an acquired taste.

It was nice to see this in this RPG supplement, Fate of Cthulhu:

Spoiler:

IIRC the latest edition of the Call of Cthulhu RPG has a similar note.

At this point Lovecraft's racism has become a part of the experience. The stories are that much creepier for it.

HPL is like "Oh, the horror of the obscene alien unknown" and the reader is like "the horror is you, buddy."

hmm for the last few months my car insurance has dropped by $6 . Not bad. Now $27.

Anyone else like me that as soon as a credit card offer arrives it goes into the shredder? Im VERY aggressive at destroying anything that can be taken out in my name.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 3:58 pm hmm for the last few months my car insurance has dropped by $6 . Not bad. Now $27.

Anyone else like me that as soon as a credit card offer arrives it goes into the shredder? Im VERY aggressive at destroying anything that can be taken out in my name.

You can stop those offers completely:
https://www.consumer.ftc.gov/articles/0 ... -and-email

I haven't gotten a credit card offer in years.

Now $27

PLPD bundled with my home owners. One accident in my life, was the other guy's fault. My insurance paid $400 minitort. My last ticket was a BS ticket for turning right on red where otherwise posted (behind a tree nearly 20' back from the corner by a cop openly admitting he was preched making his quote on a known problem corner)... $157 a month for a 2009 Ford Focus (plus $44 a month home owners rebuild value for $110,000 and $2,000 property replacement, I think with $6,500 deductible)

And yes, I shred all offers that come to my house related to check this box and credit or service come your way. I'm surprised at how many I still get after freezing my credit from the "We don't know if you were compromised.... There's a lawsuit? Oh, that breech, yeah, they got all your stuff you didn't know we kept on you" Experian incident.

After the home is paid off...if I live that long hehe.....I maaaay go back to full coverage on the car. Its old but in good shape. Depends on what its worth in 4 more years. If it was totaled tomorrow I have no way to pay for another. Not sure what we were paying for full as that was when my wife took care of it all. Im thinking it was $50 a month.

Looking at the calendar I just saw this is a leap year. Happy 12th birthday or so to those who should be around my age hehehe.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 28, 2020 5:25 pm After the home is paid off...if I live that long hehe.....I maaaay go back to full coverage on the car. Its old but in good shape. Depends on what its worth in 4 more years. If it was totaled tomorrow I have no way to pay for another. Not sure what we were paying for full as that was when my wife took care of it all. Im thinking it was $50 a month.

PLPD is the minimum allowed by state law in Michigan. Essentially it covers the other guy's medical and any property damage you may cause. I have no idea what a low deductible comprehensive and collision would cost.

https://www.thebalance.com/what-is-plpd-527422

A commonly abbreviated car insurance term is PLPD. “PLPD” stands for Personal Liability and Property Damage

PLPD is a vital and important part of every drivable vehicle’s insurance coverage, and PLPD coverage is the bare-bones legal minimum coverage in a lot of states.

As a no fault state, if our cars smash, your insurance covers you and mine covers me. So my PLPD doesn't cover your car even if it's my fault (beyond "a minitort" which was $400 in the early 2000s) $157 a month is plain usury but I'm surprised $27 a month covers... anything...

Im lucky as it was always under my wife's name and she got it cheap because it started out under her dad. Luckily I got to keep the same price or better due to my great record and age I guess. No idea. back when I got my first car in 1986 when i was 17 I 'think' I paid $220 every 6 months.

Yesterday the main road through town and the square were clogged with traffic due to slow drivers. Why?

It was Drive Your Tractor to School day.

I really want to move.

Least it wasn't lawnmowers.

Speaking of tractors, there's been more and more use of large tractors in plowing snow off driveways these last few years.