Kickstarter and other crowdfunding platforms

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 10:44 am

Just to feed into the KS drama, Brady Sadler apparently just announced that after 3 years, he's no longer with Blacklist Games and is instead starting with Lucky Duck on 1/1/2022.

I am sure this will totally quell the rumors that Blacklist Games is in financial trouble and their pending KS projects are all fine.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:38 am

Oh god damn it.

I wasn't worried at first as I assumed that this was just another issue brought about by the insane shipping situation the world is facing. But to have a partner...and a brother at that...up and leave the company is now officially making me worried that I just spent close to 500 dollars on multiple projects that are now never going to be delivered.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 11:45 am

Yeah, the update BLG sent right before Xmas was not...reassuring. It feels like we're going to get the miniatures from this first Fantasy set, but everything else I've backed? I'm genuinely questioning whether or not it will ever be delivered I can't imagine "indefinitely warehoused" in China is going to realistically last all that long.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:00 pm

Since Hour of Need is on US soil I assume that we'll have a better than even chance of getting it...or the warehouse will sell it off in an auction and our pledged games will pop up on eBay for the bargain price of $500...

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 12:01 pm

Found this post from Brady in the comments for one of the projects:

Spoiler:

If you don’t want to buy the boxes of toys that Adam and I design, please, for the love of whatever celestial being you worship, do not buy them. No one is forcing you to. There’s plenty of games out there to enjoy.

To be transparent, if we are acting like “corporate people” it’s probably because we’re not allowed to talk about something. I look forward to the day when I never have to deal with that stuff… I just want to talk about games and fun stuff. I’m getting less and less fearful of jeopardizing my job at this point, so expect a whole lot less “corporate” chat from me.

But this remains true—we were hired to design games, write rulebook, and build worlds. We have absolutely NOTHING to do with financials at Blacklist or logistics. In fact, we can’t touch them. I came into this job desperate to work in the game industry full-time again because I was dangerously depressed at my corporate job. So I gladly accepted a position that was only focused on the creative aspect of making games. However, to be fully transparent, this whole experience has me rethinking my career choices. Maybe someday soon I’ll write an open letter (when I am in a position to do so) that details more of this situation for those that are interested.

As any aside, Adam and I have no blame to shift here, because the stuff we make is usually pretty badass and we stand by the designs. If there are production and shipping issues….well, what blame could we possibly shift? How do you imagine game designers are involved in these decisions? Cryptozoic completely missed the mark on Walking Dead’s production and I’ll gladly openly discuss that with them. The game design was neat and I am still pretty proud of it. But I almost never break it out because I hate the look of it. Does anyone actually blame that on me or Adam? I’ve never seen that, so where is the shifting of blame? I guess sillier things have happened.

Anyway, we (or at least I) will have many non-Blacklist games coming out in the near future, but I don’t think we’ll ever be involved in another miniatures line like this. Honestly, I never wanted to be in the first place, lol, this was Adam’s dream child and as usual he knocked it out of the park. It’s just a shame the world events interfered.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:18 pm

Damn it. I should never have upped my Lasting Fantasy pledge to include the first season minis. That’s a lot of money to have be a wash.

And not to be mean, but that message by Brady posted by Hepcat just kinda feels… poorly toned. Like “don’t blame me, I never wanted to make this stuff.” Thanks guy, but you were happy to take our money. So that means you share the blame.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:23 pm

baelthazar wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:18 pm Thanks guy, but you were happy to take our money. So that means you share the blame.

That's the thing - I think they both have been the "face" of BLG for so long, people are conflating their roles (designers) with ownership of the company. They're good at what they do (designing) and they enjoy getting on camera to talk about their games or demo them. But they're not involved in the business elements and very clearly have no interest in those decisions. However, because they've been so visible and communicative about everything else, they're taking the heat for what's happening. All while the owner(s) have been silent and up until recently, very measured in their communications. I honestly can't blame him for leaving as his reputation is taking a hit here as this project (and others) are being held up over business/administrative issues.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:35 pm

I honestly thought Blacklist Games WAS a Sadler brothers company.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:16 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 1:35 pm I honestly thought Blacklist Games WAS a Sadler brothers company.

Me too.

But as I read the post that Brady wrote, my sympathy is tempered by the possibility that backers will be out some cash because their game is in a warehouse collecting dust and unpaid storage fees. So yeah, “the man” sucks but you weren’t protesting too much when “the man” was shilling your wares.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:24 pm

I own one of their games - Brook City - which was given to me by a friend who didn't like it. It looks like it's got great theming, but I haven't gotten to play it yet.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 2:26 pm

Brady Sadler lists VP of Product Development at Blacklist games as his title. Sorry, if your title is VP, then you ARE “the Man.”

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 3:15 pm

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:12 pm

Ugh yeah, deflecting blame (while denying you're doing so) when you're essentially the face of the company is cringey to me. While it may be factually accurate, there are ways to take ownership of a problem even if you're powerless to correct it.

If a customer came to me with a complaint that I'm not responsible for and I said, "Wow, that sucks, but I didn't cause it so <shrug>" it would not go well for me. The correct response in that situation is, "I understand your concerns and even though my team can't assist with the solution, I will find the team who can."

People with complaints just want their complaints heard, even if you can't directly resolve their complaint. They *don't* want to hear "if you don't want to buy my stuff, don't buy it" or "I hate my job" or "I can't shift blame if I'm not responsible for any of this." That's a juvenile response. I'm sure it was said out of frustration and the guy's probably taking it from all sides, but business is tough. Put on your big boy pants.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 4:28 pm

While all that is true, as someone that has been following this rather closely for 6+ months, they have both repeatedly stated that they are not permitted to discuss matters related to publishing, financials, logistics, etc... other than what they are given permission to include when they publish updates.

That is why one of the BLG owners finally appeared from behind the curtains last week and published an update related to all the things that have been floating for the last 2+ months. They've both been pretty up-front that they are just as frustrated with everything that's been happening but they personally have no ability to change or influence anything outside of design-related issues. But because they've been so visible and interactive with everyone for every KS and anything related to game play, design, strategy, etc... people have just been assuming that they are also in control of the logistics.

I am beyond frustrated with BLG and it's definitely been hard to separate them from the actual company, especially now and specifically because it's pretty clear the problems are 100% financial at this point.

To me, so much of these seems like some silent partners that were more than willing to take advantage of two known designers that are motivated and happy to get in front of a project to sell it. And it was working great until the back-end of the business couldn't keep up with the front. The question is how much of it was related to poor business practice and mismanagement of funds and how much is related to the pandemic and shipping/production crisis?

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:43 pm

Hour of Need just got an update. It actually sounds hopeful and blames the delay on, amongst other things, putting a hold on fulfillment until an errata pack was sent to address an issue on some cards they found after the game left the factory. They’re promising to get back into the fulfillment queue with QML after that.

I really hope this is the truth.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:47 pm

~1200 backers for Hour of Need vs 12K+ American backers for Fantasy Series 1. I'm sure the outstanding charges on HoN are a fraction of what is needed for FS1 and much easier to acquire in the short term.

That being said, I am really, really looking forward to HoN. I am hoping it's like Final Girl with that tiny map adding just enough game play to keep it fast, yet fun.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:57 pm

I didn’t go in on FS1 beyond ordering a small pack of miniatures for Altar Quest, thankfully. But I didn’t realize it did that well.

I just want HoN, Dire Alliance and the Street Masters expansion and all the add ons I threw into it. I hope they make good on those.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Tue Dec 28, 2021 9:02 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Dec 28, 2021 8:43 pm Hour of Need just got an update. It actually sounds hopeful and blames the delay on, amongst other things, putting a hold on fulfillment until an errata pack was sent to address an issue on some cards they found after the game left the factory. They’re promising to get back into the fulfillment queue with QML after that.

I really hope this is the truth.

I just read that update and I was a little skeptical about why the just didn’t say that in the last update instead of taking that cryptic we can’t discuss it stance.

Just hoping the game comes eventually.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:04 am

For those that want a reminder, the Final Girl Series 2 KS page is now live.

They've already confirmed everything that was available in the Series 1 KS will be available again for this one. I can only read the first four boxes - the first is very clearly an ode to Alien and *think* the second one might be a reference to The Thing. Intruder is Box #3 (Evil Dead?) and Big Bad Wolf is #4.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:11 am

5th box says Wolfe Asylum but I can't read the top part. Also assuming WIngard Cottage is a nod to Adam Wingard.

Will be going all in and picking up Carnival of Carnage which is the only one I lack. And the playmat, just for hepcat.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:21 am

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:11 am 5th box says Wolfe Asylum but I can't read the top part. Also assuming WIngard Cottage is a nod to Adam Wingard.

Will be going all in and picking up Carnival of Carnage which is the only one I lack. And the playmat, just for hepcat.

The Ratchet Lady (a nod to Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest).

I called it - we got an "Alien" film.

I am SUPER STOKED about The Thing reference (The Organism) at Station 2891, even if that is technically a Final Dude movie. Although that can also be a call back to the recent film Zygote (2017) which is similar to The Thing and IS a Final Girl film.

I love the themes of the first season, but this season looks even BETTER!

raydude · Post by **raydude** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:42 am

baelthazar wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:21 am
YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:11 am 5th box says Wolfe Asylum but I can't read the top part. Also assuming WIngard Cottage is a nod to Adam Wingard.

Will be going all in and picking up Carnival of Carnage which is the only one I lack. And the playmat, just for hepcat.
The Ratchet Lady (a nod to Nurse Ratched from One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest).

I called it - we got an "Alien" film.

I am SUPER STOKED about The Thing reference (The Organism) at Station 2891, even if that is technically a Final Dude movie. Although that can also be a call back to the recent film Zygote (2017) which is similar to The Thing and IS a Final Girl film.

I love the themes of the first season, but this season looks even BETTER!

There is also the 2011 remake of The Thing with Mary Elizabeth Winstead as the Final Girl.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:02 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:11 am 5th box says Wolfe Asylum but I can't read the top part. Also assuming WIngard Cottage is a nod to Adam Wingard.

Will be going all in and picking up Carnival of Carnage which is the only one I lack. And the playmat, just for hepcat.

Every time a person buys a playmat, an angel gets his wings.

I'm a big Adam Wingard fan, so I look forward to that.

I wish they'd make one for Psycho Goreman though! Although they should probably make the little girl of that movie into the big bad, actually (that reference is for those who have watched that gem of a horror comedy).

They've really got a great formula going for this franchise at this point. It's a great game that's based on expansions that are fairly easy to design, I would imagine (in respects to other larger games, mind you). I suspect this is going to be the flagship game for them for a long while.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 12:10 pm

They just sent out an email with the details.

Fishbelly · Post by **Fishbelly** » Thu Jan 06, 2022 10:07 pm

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jan 06, 2022 11:04 am For those that want a reminder, the Final Girl Series 2 KS page is now live.

Count me in! This game has rapidly become one of my favorites from the past couple of years. I love the variety of the next wave of feature films, particularly the homage to The Thing--which I hope will draw my wife into playing the game herself. She's just begun playing solo games because she's on the road a lot, and the theme is right in her wheelhouse.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:34 pm

Got lucky that my Definitive edition of Sentinels of the Multiverse was just delivered. Apparently their shipping/warehouse operation was just hit with an outbreak so fulfillment has been impacted. This is my third(!) attempt to learn this game and I'm thinking this new version might be the one that sticks.

Fardaza · Post by **Fardaza** » Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:01 am

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Sat Jan 08, 2022 3:34 pm Got lucky that my Definitive edition of Sentinels of the Multiverse was just delivered. Apparently their shipping/warehouse operation was just hit with an outbreak so fulfillment has been impacted. This is my third(!) attempt to learn this game and I'm thinking this new version might be the one that sticks.

Still waiting on mine. When it does show up, it will be my first kickstarter to actually be delivered!

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:12 pm

The S2 Final Girl KS launched. Get ready for wallet shock.

I...am actually not sure if I'm going to back it. I really like the mechanics but I'm not sure if I like them enough for that many iterations - though the Alien and Thing themes do look like I'd like them. I'm even considering getting rid of some of the S1 boxes just to get some space. When you're limited in storage, you really start to look at things differently.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:15 pm

The pledge levels are kind of wonky. I think individual boxes is the way to go. And I'm not sure I want to spend 50 bucks on a storage solution for season 1 and season 2 that essentially is the same as just standing the individual boxes upright on a shelf.

As I noted earlier, the extreme dependence on luck with this game has dulled some of the shine for me, but not enough that I won't pick up the individual "films" for season 2. I still think it's easy to set up, tells a great story while you're playing and if you have a crappy game, it takes 3 minutes to set another one up.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:32 pm

Yeah $165 + $25 shipping... for basically 5 more features and some fluff vs $100 + unknown shipping for just the features. Call it $70 for minis, playmats and storage boxes.

I like Final Girl better than HN, but I am not sure I like it THAT much more. The wildly random swings depending on the cards that appear, even ignoring the dice. I guess I have 3 weeks to play more and make up my mind.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:04 pm

Honestly, I'm now tempted to drop my pledge entirely for season 2 and just buy it from MM or Coolstuff at a discount when it releases to retail. That way I can pick and choose at an even lower price, and get free shipping.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 1:49 pm

hepcat wrote:Honestly, I'm now tempted to drop my pledge entirely for season 2 and just buy it from MM or Coolstuff at a discount when it releases to retail. That way I can pick and choose at an even lower price, and get free shipping.

This is what I decided to do. While the S2 booster is much cheaper than getting everything included a la carte, I don't want the vehicle minis. The storage boxes are nice, but not $25 for an empty box nice.

It might be different if I felt this was a limited game that was going to be really hard to find, but this one's not going anywhere. It's a Van Ryder Games flagship title, and I'm guessing once the hype around the S2 fulfillment dies down you'll be able to pick it up at will.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:47 pm

Yeah, thinking it over some more and it really is the best way on this new season. I don't want everything in the deluxe package for those returning from season 1, and I don't want to pay 25 bucks in shipping. Saving about 5 bucks a box with coolstuff or miniature market is another plus.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 3:58 pm

My other fear is that I'll have had my fill of Final Girl by next December. That's a long time in board game years, and a lot of games will have hit my table between now and then.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:10 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 12:15 pm The pledge levels are kind of wonky. I think individual boxes is the way to go. And I'm not sure I want to spend 50 bucks on a storage solution for season 1 and season 2 that essentially is the same as just standing the individual boxes upright on a shelf.

As I noted earlier, the extreme dependence on luck with this game has dulled some of the shine for me, but not enough that I won't pick up the individual "films" for season 2. I still think it's easy to set up, tells a great story while you're playing and if you have a crappy game, it takes 3 minutes to set another one up.

I am so confused at the pledge levels. I *think* I picked the right one, since I have the first season, but I am not confident. I love all the minis and such and if you add +25 for the mat, +25 for the minis, you are getting close to the $70 coop cited. Shipping from MM is easily $15, unless you pass the free shipping mark (and then it comes by the god awful SmartPost). So I'm still seeing value in backing it via KS, particularly since you get it earlier. I'm a fan of storage solutions, so "empty box" is less problematic for me.

The only two things that irk me are the need for two playmats and some undefined extras. I was all about the playmat, from Hep's comments, but not sure I want two. I may just drop the season 1 mat and not worry about it. The other thing is that they are offering some "Grusome Death Books" but I have no clue what that is.

Fishbelly · Post by **Fishbelly** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:49 pm

baelthazar wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:10 pm I was all about the playmat, from Hep's comments, but not sure I want two. I may just drop the season 1 mat and not worry about it.

I'm looking at the playmats as well, but I'm a tad confused about season 1 vs season 2 mats. Am I correct in inferring that the season 2 playmat is functionally different than the season 1 playmat? I really don't want to buy two sets of mats, and if I could just use season 2 that would be great. If not, I'm not sure I want to bother.

I'll be honest, I don't know why anyone would want the storage box as it looks right now. I already have my boxes stacked like they would be in this extra box--$25 for a big cardboard box and art seems a but much, when it doesn't help facilitate ease of gameplay in any way. I know my Trove Loot for Too Many Bones was expensive, but it allows me to get a game to the table quickly and easily, so I love it.

I think I'll back a couple of feature films (at least) and maybe a mat, but that's it for the Kickstarter. I can wait for the rest at retail.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 8:17 pm

Fardaza wrote: ↑Sun Jan 09, 2022 12:01 am Still waiting on mine. When it does show up, it will be my first kickstarter to actually be delivered!

I never really understood the love for foil cards, or I guess it's better to say I've never seen any that impressed me before. However, the ones that comes with the Definitive set are absolutely stunning. I am kinda wishing I picked up sleeves for the boss cards as their a weird size. I have 90x128mm sleeves but they're 3mm too short!

Anyway, I think you're going to dig it. Definitely a quality production.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Tue Jan 11, 2022 9:43 pm

Fishbelly wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 7:49 pm
baelthazar wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:10 pm I was all about the playmat, from Hep's comments, but not sure I want two. I may just drop the season 1 mat and not worry about it.

I'm looking at the playmats as well, but I'm a tad confused about season 1 vs season 2 mats. Am I correct in inferring that the season 2 playmat is functionally different than the season 1 playmat? I really don't want to buy two sets of mats, and if I could just use season 2 that would be great. If not, I'm not sure I want to bother.

It appears to have some spaces for new mechanics found in at least one of the new season 2 boxes. Since discovering that my season 1 playmat doesn’t match up completely with things like Maple Street’s 4 vs the normal 3 location decks, I’m less inclined to recommend them. Also, making them two pieces just seems unnecessary and ill conceived in retrospect.

And the storage box is literally just a box. I guess they do include a storage solution for the miniatures, but the storage solution found in the film and core boxes is more than sufficient, I think.

I can’t begrudge them the desire to milk this for all it’s worth, but I also don’t feel like getting sore teats in the process.

baelthazar wrote: ↑Tue Jan 11, 2022 6:10 pmThe other thing is that they are offering some "Grusome Death Books" but I have no clue what that is.

They’re just print copies of thematic end game stuff you can download for free from their web site.

baelthazar · Post by **baelthazar** » Wed Jan 12, 2022 12:57 am

Van Ryder put up a new choice which is $90 for all the FF boxes. Then you can put in all the add-ons. I added the two mystery boxes, the vehicle minis, and the season 2 minis and got my pledge to a reasonable $150.

I think I am going to skip the mats. While I initially was drawn to them, the boxes themselves are basically "mats" and being split means they are awkward on my smallish table.