Octopus Overlords

There are no consequences to this kind of behaviour. Not even empty disapproval from their peers.

Apparently the point of asking for the memos was so that Rosenstein would refuse; Congressional GOP could then hit him with contempt and then impeach him.

Failing that, it looks like another self-own by Nunes and company. The memos say exactly what Comey said they said, with the bonus of a whole lot of added pettiness and aggression on Trump's part. (e.g. One new revelation is that Trump wanted to enlist Comey in a move to jail some journalists so that they would name leakers.)

Trying to get ahead of the kompromat rumors, Trump told Comey that he did not stay overnight in Moscow in 2013 at all. Unfortunately his bodyguard already testified that he did, and his own tweets from the time seem to indicate that he stayed two nights.

(Plus, seriously: who would fly 9 hours from NYC to Moscow, host a long and complex media event, and then turn around to get back on another 9-hour flight without an overnight?)

What is beginning to really scare me about all this bad behavior is that the Democratic party apparently has no plan for...anything. They have no coordinated response to any of this. They have almost no visible national leadership. There is no great next face. The Republicans are pretty much tearing up the country and the Democrats seem to be just holding out hope that the blue wave will just happen. It certainly doesn't feel like they are trying to make it happen. To make a case for their existence. If the blue wave doesn't come, I can't help but wonder how long these institutions will keep on taking the battering they have before they begin to fail.

Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

Putting forward a leader now would give the GOP an enemy to target. They're going to get that when campaign season starts in mid-November, so why let them start marshaling forces now by tipping your hand?

A single Democrat becoming the anti-Trump spokesperson would draw lightning and be the target for a counter attack. Look at how Trump attacked Senator Elizabeth Warren.

The Bernie people wouldn't accept most people the Democratic Party who name anyway.

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:08 am What is beginning to really scare me about all this bad behavior is that the Democratic party apparently has no plan for...anything. They have no coordinated response to any of this. They have almost no visible national leadership. There is no great next face. The Republicans are pretty much tearing up the country and the Democrats seem to be just holding out hope that the blue wave will just happen. It certainly doesn't feel like they are trying to make it happen. To make a case for their existence. If the blue wave doesn't come, I can't help but wonder how long these institutions will keep on taking the battering they have before they begin to fail.

I'm not sure why you think this. Adam Schiff alone has certainly been very busy doing what he can to expose and undermine Trump (he was pretty instrumental in the Nunes memo blowing up, second only to Nunes's self-owning). There is, however, a limit to how much you can do (and how much the media will pay attention) when you're in the minority and the congressional leadership won't do anything about anything.

Not that I disagree about there being a limited amount of time before institutions fail more definitively.

We're already seeing the developing Blue Wave in special elections, all of which have demonstrated (even when they aren't outright wins) major shifts towards the Dems in turnout and vote totals. That these have occurred in off-off-year elections (when voting patterns favor the GOP) is even more remarkable.

I'm still optimistic enough to believe that the narrative driving recent results isn't suddenly going to shift back Trumpward in the next six months, especially if Trump's cronies and crimes continue to reveal themselves.

There's also a clear pattern of growing strength in openly liberal media. Fox is losing ratings ground and actually being surpassed by MSNBC. It may be that Maddow, Chris Hayes, and Lawrence O'Donnell are filling the standard-bearer role during the period between national campaigns. People are certainly listening to them.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:07 am Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

Putting forward a leader now would give the GOP an enemy to target. They're going to get that when campaign season starts in mid-November, so why let them start marshaling forces now by tipping your hand?

Maybe to put the future of the nation ahead of party politics? I mean I get that you have to play by the rules, such as they are, to win but the game is just broken.

Perhaps the representative from Big Rock Candy Mountain will save us.

I don't have faith in humanity as a whole. And even less in politicians or party officials to put the country's interests above their own.

I'd argue that positioning yourselves to win in November IS putting the nation's interests first. What good would it be if we forestall a single issue presented by Trump but in so doing cost the Democrats the seats needed to flip the house and/or Senate? I'd rather a big Blue wave create a major check upon him for the remainder of his time in office than risk leaving him a Republican congress to rubber stamp his horrible nature. It's easy to get offended, react, and thus remove your advantage. It is much more challenging to endure while preparing for a long term fix.

Holman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 6:46 am Apparently the point of asking for the memos was so that Rosenstein would refuse; Congressional GOP could then hit him with contempt and then impeach him.

Failing that, it looks like another self-own by Nunes and company. The memos say exactly what Comey said they said, with the bonus of a whole lot of added pettiness and aggression on Trump's part. (e.g. One new revelation is that Trump wanted to enlist Comey in a move to jail some journalists so that they would name leakers.)

I was just coming here to ask the OO collective if we knew why the Republicans demanded the memos get released.

I guess that makes sense that in "Fox News reality" the memos would contradict what Comey has been saying publicly and discredit him, with the added benefit that they might be able to impeach Rosenstein if he refused to release them.

So remember Republicans: having a propaganda outfit to undermine democracy is fine, just don't consume your own product or you might end up like Devin Nunes.

I'm kinda curious if a Democrat leaked the memos in total to undercut any selective editing the Republicans had planned like with their report. Once released everyone knew the Republicans were going to leak anything that could be twisted into damaging.

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Combustible Lemur wrote:I'm kinda curious if a Democrat leaked the memos in total to undercut any selective editing the Republicans had planned like with their report. Once released everyone knew the Republicans were going to leak anything that could be twisted into damaging.

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Rumor is that the DOJ leaked them in full to prevent cherry-picked leaking by Nunes et al.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa- ... SKBN1HR2BE

Sigh. Let Mueller do his job. Worry about suing if they stop him.

The party alleges in the federal lawsuit in Manhattan that top Trump campaign officials conspired with the Russian government and its military spy agency to hurt Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton and tilt the election to Trump by hacking Democratic Party computers.

I think filing the lawsuit was a big mistake. It's just another thing for Fox and Trump to latch onto and deride. And it will come to nothing. Rudi has said he will have the investigation wrapped up in a couple of weeks though.

Yeah, I don't see how that lawsuit helps the Ds at this stage.

Holman wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:39 am We're already seeing the developing Blue Wave in special elections, all of which have demonstrated (even when they aren't outright wins) major shifts towards the Dems in turnout and vote totals. That these have occurred in off-off-year elections (when voting patterns favor the GOP) is even more remarkable.

It seems like many are relying on that while there is evidence it is fading somewhat.That could be due to less special elections and less enthusiasm but momentum is needed.

I'm still optimistic enough to believe that the narrative driving recent results isn't suddenly going to shift back Trumpward in the next six months, especially if Trump's cronies and crimes continue to reveal themselves.

It doesn't need to shift back. It just needs to not shift enough.

There's also a clear pattern of growing strength in openly liberal media. Fox is losing ratings ground and actually being surpassed by MSNBC. It may be that Maddow, Chris Hayes, and Lawrence O'Donnell are filling the standard-bearer role during the period between national campaigns. People are certainly listening to them.

Great but those people aren't actually running. They surely influence but if turnout doesn't work out in Democrats favor then it won't matter much. And turnout needs enthusiasm. Hopefully it'll come but near silence as the nations burns is not going to do it.

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:32 pm Yeah, I don't see how that lawsuit helps the Ds at this stage.

Me either. Seems like the all-too-common Dem strategy of shooting themselves in the foot. Just gives Trump more ammo to say that the investigation is political.

They need to build enthusiasm but this isn't the way. This opens all sorts of attacks on the Mueller investigation. I can't figure out who thought this was a smart idea. In the end this is sort of what I was alluding to earlier, there is a huge competence problem in the Democratic party leadership.

Remus West wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 10:30 am I'd argue that positioning yourselves to win in November IS putting the nation's interests first. What good would it be if we forestall a single issue presented by Trump but in so doing cost the Democrats the seats needed to flip the house and/or Senate? I'd rather a big Blue wave create a major check upon him for the remainder of his time in office than risk leaving him a Republican congress to rubber stamp his horrible nature. It's easy to get offended, react, and thus remove your advantage. It is much more challenging to endure while preparing for a long term fix.

I don't like that the solution is, "You need a lot of these assholes in power in order to offset this slightly greater number of slightly different assholes." I get that the Trump administration is unprecedented in its ineptitude and graft but I'm sick of yet another "lesser of two evils" solution.

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:46 am

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 9:07 am Never interrupt your enemy when he is making a mistake.

Putting forward a leader now would give the GOP an enemy to target. They're going to get that when campaign season starts in mid-November, so why let them start marshaling forces now by tipping your hand?

Maybe to put the future of the nation ahead of party politics? I mean I get that you have to play by the rules, such as they are, to win but the game is just broken.

Hillary was the party's heir apparent for 8 years, and the GOP never stopped attacking her. It didn't matter whether or not there was any substance to those attacks, but it certainly had an affect on the outcome. It would be nice to see a unified message, but it should not be delivered by a single spokesweasel but by those who can be safely dragged through the mud without damaging potential candidates.

Please don't pretend like Hillary was a good candidate. She might be better than Trump, but that isn't saying much.

Moliere wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 1:15 pm Please don't pretend like Hillary was a good candidate. She might be better than Trump, but that isn't saying much.

True. Qualified as hell but her unfavorables were through the roof and she was under investigation when nominated...then maybe under investigation just before the election...and still almost won. Think what would have happened if they ran someone who people sort of liked.

Some people did like Hillary. Just not us old dudes on the internet forum. She received years of unfair and ludicrous criticism by Republican fanatics, but long and relentless enough to stick. For all her faults, Hillary did have many strengths. Such as surviving all of the attacks on her, including Comey.

Hillary was flawed, but qualified. Even Trump admits she should have won the election. The conventional wisdom that Hillary was "weak" is simply bullshit. She was good without being great. She also made miscalculations. But the attempt to blamer HER covers up factors beyond her -- Russia, Cambridge America, Breitbart, jerrymandering, etc. plus Trump's ability to play the media with his outrageousness and game-changing use of twitter.

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:39 pm

Zaxxon wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 12:32 pm Yeah, I don't see how that lawsuit helps the Ds at this stage.

Me either. Seems like the all-too-common Dem strategy of shooting themselves in the foot. Just gives Trump more ammo to say that the investigation is political.

Well, there are a variety of potential upsides to the lawsuit:

(1) It's another news item that would keep Trump and Russia in the news;

(2) Discovery. There's enough in the public record that the odds of this surviving a motion to dismiss (except as to the Russian government defendants) seem high. Getting e-mail productions from Trump and people in his orbit on that could be, well, 'yuge.

(3) If Mueller gets fired and the Republicans do nothing, that discovery will become very, very important, so it acts as a potential backup plan if that goes down.

(4) Getting to depose Trump on this stuff. Mueller can subpoena Trump to try to compel an interview (if Trump doesn't agree to it), but doing so greatly elevates the risk that Trump tries to fire him. DNC attorneys could depose Trump without that risk. Trump would then either have to give testimony that would (presumably) be highly damaging, or plead the fifth. Either would be great for Democrats.

Meanwhile, as to giving Trump more fuel to saying that this is all political....he's saying that already. I'm not sure how this would really tilt the balance on that.

I think there's a decent chance that a court will just stay this suit pending the duration of the Mueller investigation, but that's fine too - that's then something that democrats can activate as needed if Mueller is fired.

I didn't say she wasn't disliked by *everyone* and please don't take my post as *blaming* her - well not entirely. She got her nomination by getting more votes in open primaries in her party after all so she wasn't unpopular and didn't "steal" the nominaton as the Bernie Bros argue. The facts are though that at the beginning of the campaign she had very high unfavorable ratings across key voting blocks in key states and minorities didn't turn out for her. Combine that with a few bad dice rolls and we have a national disaster. I've always likened it to the Democratic party taking on too much risk. And they did it because the Clinton's ruled over the party. Now that she lost the party is pretty much adrift at sea without a leader and it is starting to really show.

Yeah, I read it as an attempt to make news and as a backup way of getting information out in case Mueller gets fired.

The politics of the Russian hacking may be murky, but the facts are clearly lined up against Drumpf and his allies, and a court is a fine way to try to cut through the politics of the issue and get some of the facts out there.

malchior wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:13 pm Now that she lost the party is pretty much adrift at sea without a leader and it is starting to really show.

Hillary was just a lousy campaigner. But this has all been post-mortemed to death (heh).

Today's D Party is going through a struggle for control. You have the Establishment Clinton-Obama wing (now embodied in Biden) that won't relinquish power. They're experienced and well-known, but they represent a past that will never return. Then you have the Progressive wing as embodied in Sanders and Warren; their positions are generally popular with younger voters, but anathema to conservatives and a hard sell to moderates...moreover, the establishment wing is appropriating their more popular proposals and pushing them farther left. Then you have the up-and-coming Next Generation as embodied in Seth Moulton and (ironically) Joe Kennedy; they are still unknowns with no clear agenda besides anti-Trump. This factional contest will not be decided until the next presidential primaries. It's a natural and necessary and healthy democratic process, but not necessarily conducive to winning elections while it's underway.

Sepiche wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 2:13 pm Yeah, I read it as an attempt to make news and as a backup way of getting information out in case Mueller gets fired.

The politics of the Russian hacking may be murky, but the facts are clearly lined up against Drumpf and his allies, and a court is a fine way to try to cut through the politics of the issue and get some of the facts out there.

Yeah, and it seems like you want to have as many bites at the apple on this stuff as possible, as you never know which one will pan out. In general it seems like the risk-reward on this lawsuit makes some sense.

RNC Fundraising chief working for the Russians. Wonder if he was registered as a foreign agent?

Shortly after President Donald Trump was inaugurated last year, top Republican fundraiser Elliott Broidy offered Russian gas giant Novatek a $26 million lobbying plan aimed at removing the company from a U.S. sanctions list, according to documents obtained by The Intercept.

Broidy is a Trump associate who was deputy finance chair of the Republican National Committee until he resigned last week amid reports that he had agreed to pay $1.6 million to a former Playboy model with whom he had an affair. But in February 2017, when he laid out his lobbying proposal for Novatek, he was acting as a well-connected businessman and longtime Republican donor in a bid to help the Russian company avoid sanctions imposed by the Obama administration.

FFS.

At what point did the GOP look at the Russian oligarchal system and decide, "Hell, yeah! We can do EXACTLY that too!"

..."But where will we find the candidate?"

Michael Cohen, Wife Owe $110K Taxes On Taxi Cos.

As President Donald Trump’s embattled personal attorney Michael Cohen fights an FBI search warrant tied to his personal business dealings in federal court, New York City and state records show Cohen and his wife owe more than $110,000 in taxes related to NYC taxicab businesses that they own.

Only. The. Best.

Pyperkub wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 5:33 pm RNC Fundraising chief working for the Russians. Wonder if he was registered as a foreign agent?

Shortly after President Donald Trump was inaugurated last year, top Republican fundraiser Elliott Broidy offered Russian gas giant Novatek a $26 million lobbying plan aimed at removing the company from a U.S. sanctions list, according to documents obtained by The Intercept.

Broidy is a Trump associate who was deputy finance chair of the Republican National Committee until he resigned last week amid reports that he had agreed to pay $1.6 million to a former Playboy model with whom he had an affair. But in February 2017, when he laid out his lobbying proposal for Novatek, he was acting as a well-connected businessman and longtime Republican donor in a bid to help the Russian company avoid sanctions imposed by the Obama administration.

So besides offering to sell out our country for a measly $26 million,this RNC finance chief Broidy is the same dude who had that $1.6 million NDA that Cohen set up with the Playboy Bunny he got preggers. What a time to be alive.

Has this been posted?

DNC sues Russia, Trump campaign, and WIKIleaks

The Democratic National Committee alleges in a new multimillion dollar lawsuit that the Russian government, the Trump campaign and WikiLeaks engaged in a sweeping plot to interfere in the 2016 election in President Donald Trump's favor.

The lawsuit accuses top officials for the Trump campaign, Russian government officials and their military intelligence service, the GRU, of engaging in a vast, coordinated effort to inflict damage on Trump’s general election rival, Democratic Party presidential nominee Hillary Clinton.

OMG, Trump, WHY.

Just heard the Campaign was sued by the Obstructionist Democrats. This can be good news in that we will now counter for the DNC Server that they refused to give to the FBI, the Debbie Wasserman Schultz Servers and Documents held by the Pakistani mystery man and Clinton Emails.

In an earlier tweet, he called Debbie Wasserman Schultz "Wendy".

pr0ner wrote: ↑Fri Apr 20, 2018 7:49 pm OMG, Trump, WHY.

I'm guessing someone on Fox & Friends suggested it.

Does he understand how lawsuits work?

Is he somehow suggesting he will counter-sue?

I don't even understand what he's talking about.

It Might Not Matter Whether or Not Michael Cohen Flips on Donald Trump

Cohen has been involved in real estate deals and negotiations abroad that probably involved bribes and other financial crimes. He’s made threats against journalists and people who have accused Trump of everything from fraud to sexual assault. Stormy Daniels alleges that Cohen sent someone to threaten her in Las Vegas, which was done in front of her child. Yesterday, she released a sketch artist’s drawing of the man who told her she had a nice child and it would be a shame if something happened to her mother. We already know he’s under investigation for bank fraud, wire fraud, and campaign finance violations in relation to his efforts to help Trump cover up his sexual dalliances. Prosecutors also seem to have him on something related to New York City’s (and maybe Chicago’s) taxicab business, although that’s not likely to involve the president. To be honest, this is just scratching the surface. As Josh Marshall reported this week, Cohen is so tightly connected to the Russian mafia that he essentially is the Russian mafia.

Did we miss this defense of Mike Flynn earlier?

Donald Turmp wrote:So General Michael Flynn’s life can be totally destroyed while Shadey James Comey can Leak and Lie and make lots of money from a third rate book (that should never have been written). Is that really the way life in America is supposed to work? I don’t think so!

Didn't someone fire top-clearance National Security Adviser Flynn for lying about his undisclosed ties to foreign powers?

Is that really the way life in America is supposed to work? I don’t think so!

Is that like shady?