Election integrity and the transfer of power

[Grifman]

I am watching the Senate proceedings now. Some of the Republicans are making some pretty good speeches, but there's more than a bit of hypocrisy here - they've been Trump's enablers for 4 years. To me their words sound very hollow, and I wish someone would call them out on it to their faces.

[YellowKing]

As happy as I am that there are members of Congress that are dropping their objections, or turning against Trump, I'm still furious that it took the death of a US citizen INSIDE THE CAPITOL BUILDING to change their mind. It took a threat to their personal safety for them to say, "Hey, maybe I should stop peddling inciteful conspiracy theories designed to cover my ass."

Yay, here's a fucking cookie. Congratulations. It only took you to the last possible second for you to realize that the monster you've coddled and enabled for four years bit you.

Every one of those assholes that objected to the electoral votes has blood on their hands. Every one of them.

[Malificent]

Washington Post Editorial Board calls for removal of Trump.

PRESIDENT TRUMP’S refusal to accept his election defeat and his relentless incitement of his supporters led Wednesday to the unthinkable: an assault on the U.S. Capitol by a violent mob that overwhelmed police and drove Congress from its chambers as it was debating the counting of electoral votes. Responsibility for this act of sedition lies squarely with the president, who has shown that his continued tenure in office poses a grave threat to U.S. democracy. He should be removed.

Mr. Trump encouraged the mob to gather on Wednesday, as Congress was set convene, and to “be wild.” After repeating a panoply of absurd conspiracy theories about the election, he urged the crowd to march on the Capitol. “We’re going to walk down, and I’ll be there with you,” he said. “You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.” The president did not follow the mob, but instead passively watched it on television as its members tore down fences around the Capitol and overwhelmed police guarding the building. House members and senators were forced to flee. Shots were fired and at least one person was struck and killed.

Rather than immediately denouncing the violence and calling on his supporters to stand down, Mr. Trump issued two mild tweets in which he called on them to “remain” or “stay” peaceful. Following appeals from senior Republicans, he finally released a video in which he asked people to go home, but doubled down on the lies fueling the vigilantes. “We love you. You’re very special,” he told his seditious posse. Later, he excused the riot, tweeting that “these are the things and events that happen when a sacred landslide election victory is so unceremoniously & viciously stripped away.”

“You’ll never take back our country with weakness. You have to show strength, and you have to be strong.”

That pretty much defines Trump's life philosophy - the strong are the only ones that matter. What's impressive is how often he fails at being strong.

[malchior]

As happy as I am that there are members of Congress that are dropping their objections, or turning against Trump, I'm still furious that it took the death of a US citizen INSIDE THE CAPITOL BUILDING to change their mind. It took a threat to their personal safety for them to say, "Hey, maybe I should stop peddling inciteful conspiracy theories designed to cover my ass."

Yay, here's a fucking cookie. Congratulations. It only took you to the last possible second for you to realize that the monster you've coddled and enabled for four years bit you.

Every one of those assholes that objected to the electoral votes has blood on their hands. Every one of them.

What I would have appreciated at the outset of the reconvene was McConnell and Schumer moving to go right to the vote and getting this stupid objection closed out and move on to finish the EC vote. Instead, they've made slightly modified speeches about this.

[Defiant]

If someone dies in the commission of a crime (trespassing?) can't all those participants be tried with murder?

[Alefroth]

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/stat ... 1639946245

ALERT: Person shot at US Capitol today has died, per law enforcement source

I saw the video on Twitter. She was dead when she hit the ground. Died wearing a Trump flag like a cape.

I hope they can identify who the gun belonged to, and I'd like to see her family sue the Capitol Police.

Why? I don't know any of the details.

I initially thought she was struck by a gun carried by a protestor and would have liked to have the police been held accountable for allowing a deadly weapon on the grounds.

[LawBeefaroni]

I am watching the Senate proceedings now. Some of the Republicans are making some pretty good speeches, but there's more than a bit of hypocrisy here - they've been Trump's enablers for 4 years. To me their words sound very hollow, and I wish someone would call them out on it to their faces.

No one is going to call them out on the floor.

And yeah, it's totally hollow. This is them running to the American line while the allies take Berlin street by street.

[El Guapo]

If someone dies in the commission of a crime (trespassing?) can't all those participants be tried with murder?

Ahhh the felony murder rule. That brings me back to law school.

Anyway, depends on how the felony murder rule applies under DC law.

Sent from my SM-G986U using Tapatalk

[Little Raven]

I hope they can identify who the gun belonged to, and I'd like to see her family sue the Capitol Police.

Good luck with that.

I've repeated argued in favor of capital security de-escalating this whenever possible. I'm very, very glad that we seem to be on course to only having one fatality. But the Capitol Police would have been perfectly justified in stacking the bodies like cordwood today.

edit- Sorry, Ale, just saw your second post. That makes more sense.

[Alefroth]

No worries.

[Defiant]

Today is a day that will live in infamy.

Well, it would, if we knew what day it was in a pandemic where units of time stopped having any meaning.

[Little Raven]

https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1346993660718698496

[Little Raven]

https://twitter.com/DanielPFlatley/stat ... 8348536832

Two more drop objections.

[Little Raven]

https://twitter.com/Muchanic6abc/status ... 6788050945

Is the Republican Party FINALLY going to reject him?

[Jaymann]

https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1346993660718698496

I thought they were all unqualified Agolf flunkies. If they are calling for removal it really says something.

[Little Raven]

From those noted pinkos over at NRO...

January 6, 2021, is not over, but it already lives in infamy. A sitting president of the United States, having lost reelection, incited a mob to storm the Capitol as the Congress sat in joint session to certify the Electoral College vote. This act was without precedent. It was based on a lie, fed by myth, and culminated in violence, in vandalism, and in the desecration of the people’s house. The lawbreakers cannot go unpunished. Nor can the person ultimately responsible. His name is Donald Trump.

The men and women who breached the House and Senate chambers were doing it for him. They carried just as many Trump flags as American (or Confederate) ones. They were not chanting “Make America Great Again” as he fueled their anger during his speech at the Ellipse this morning. They were crying, “Fight for Trump.” It wasn’t an idea or even a country they stood for as they knocked over barriers, climbed walls, bashed windows, forced open doors, and desecrated public property. It was one man. And this irrevocable loyalty to an individual, this devotion that places his interests above the plain text of the Constitution and the rule of law, is not characteristic of democracy. It is tyranny.

...

There will be time to sort through the wreckage of the conservative movement and the Republican Party. There is not as much time — a little less than 14 days — to constrain the president before he plunges the nation’s capital into havoc again. Incitement to trespass, harassment, and destruction cannot go unanswered. The Constitution offers remedies. Pursue them — for no other reason than to deter the president from escalation. There must be a cost for reckless endangerment of the United States government. Trump must pay.

[malchior]

Hawley is still sticking to this PA Constitutional mail-in voting bullshit. This is unbelievable.

[Zaxxon]

https://twitter.com/Muchanic6abc/status ... 6788050945

Is the Republican Party FINALLY going to reject him?

I award zero points, and may God have mercy on their souls.

[Little Raven]

Hawley is still sticking to this PA Constitutional mail-in voting bullshit. This is unbelievable.

https://twitter.com/KirkAdams/status/13 ... 9889782785

[Holman]

https://twitter.com/davekingthing/statu ... 45888?s=21

[msteelers]

https://twitter.com/edokeefe/status/1346993660718698496

Am I reading section 4 of the 25th amendment right? The majority of the cabinet alerts congress that the pres is off his rocker. The President then tells congress that he is firmly rooted on his rocker. The cabinet then has to tell congress again that the president is, in fact, rockerless. THEN congress needs to vote and the president is only removed with 2/3 vote in both chambers?

Invoking the 25th is great and all and needs to happen. But he also needs to be impeached again. And republicans need to pressure him to resign.

He can’t be president for these final 14 days. And once that imminent emergency is done, we need to punish every sitting member of congress who said they would object and enabled this failed insurrection.

[Defiant]

Is the Republican Party FINALLY going to reject him?

Well, at least they didn't wait until the literal last minute and just the metaphorical last minute.

[malchior]

Romney is popping off on his own side. He basically said don't feed the trolls...just tell them the truth. He got a round of applause for that simple truth.

[Scraper]

Romney is laying the smack down right now. Called Howley and Trump.out directly.

[Little Raven]

Am I reading section 4 of the 25th amendment right? The majority of the cabinet alerts congress that the pres is off his rocker. The President then tells congress that he is firmly rooted on his rocker. The cabinet then has to tell congress again that the president is, in fact, rockerless. THEN congress needs to vote and the president is only removed with 2/3 vote in both chambers?

Yeah...it's all fine and well to discuss the 25th Amendment, but it was never designed for this kind of situation and it isn't appropriate for it. It was designed for situations where the President is incapacitated but may be alive for quite some time.

Trump needs to be impeached. And removed. Post haste.

[Little Raven]

https://twitter.com/joshtpm/status/1347005142328111105

[Defiant]

I'd be happy with just keeping Pence as acting President (and if necessary, invoking the 25th multiple times to do so), and not actually removing Trump from office (since that would be unlikely to happen).

[Grifman]

About half or more of the Republican senators have decided not to oppose the electors - so limited applause there, but it appears that Cruz and Hawley are sticking to their guns and will continue to oppose the electors. Shame on them.

[msteelers]

Am I reading section 4 of the 25th amendment right? The majority of the cabinet alerts congress that the pres is off his rocker. The President then tells congress that he is firmly rooted on his rocker. The cabinet then has to tell congress again that the president is, in fact, rockerless. THEN congress needs to vote and the president is only removed with 2/3 vote in both chambers?

Yeah...it's all fine and well to discuss the 25th Amendment, but it was never designed for this kind of situation and it isn't appropriate for it. It was designed for situations where the President is incapacitated but may be alive for quite some time.

Trump needs to be impeached. And removed. Post haste.

Well, he’s clearly mentally ill. I don’t think you can impeach a president because they are sick and the 25th amendment feels like the right path to take in that case. But we don’t have time for it to play out. Luckily Trump led an insurrection against the US gov. He can be impeach, convicted, and removed quickly if congress wants to.

[malchior]

Am I reading section 4 of the 25th amendment right? The majority of the cabinet alerts congress that the pres is off his rocker. The President then tells congress that he is firmly rooted on his rocker. The cabinet then has to tell congress again that the president is, in fact, rockerless. THEN congress needs to vote and the president is only removed with 2/3 vote in both chambers?

Yeah...it's all fine and well to discuss the 25th Amendment, but it was never designed for this kind of situation and it isn't appropriate for it. It was designed for situations where the President is incapacitated but may be alive for quite some time.

Trump needs to be impeached. And removed. Post haste.

There is a lot of debate over this. It however doesn't make much sense if it was only for incapacitation. You don't need the second part if the President was incapacitated. It instead seems intended as a check to make sure the VP and the Cabinet can't simply sending the notice to the House and become President *immediately*. You don't need that check if it was *only* for incapacitation. As an aside, the advantage to the 25th vs impeachment is you shortcut the trial and it is expedited.

[msteelers]

If Pence does take over and becomes the 46th President, I wonder what happens to all of the Biden 46 merch...

[Jaymann]

If Pence does take over and becomes the 46th President, I wonder what happens to all of the Biden 46 merch...

Collector's items!

[Grifman]

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/stat ... 1639946245

ALERT: Person shot at US Capitol today has died, per law enforcement source

I saw the video on Twitter. She was dead when she hit the ground. Died wearing a Trump flag like a cape.

Apparently she was shot by police (or security) while she came first through a window into a section of the Capitol.

Yeah, I saw the video. She was trying to climb through a broken window in a Capitol hallway. Don't know the area she was trying to get into, but I don't think she should have been shot. But outnumbered law enforcement may have been fearful that she was just the first of many trying to come through. Still, she shouldn't have been shot, just grab her as she came through and cuff her. But of course if "she just followed orders, she wouldn't have been shot", I say sarcastically. It's so sad she died for her false messiah.

[Kraken]

CNN has a photo gallery of today's events if you want to be amazed, horrified, and filled with dread.

Glad to see that the "protesters" are now "rioters."

And I had no idea there were so many of them there until I saw those crowd shots.

[Holman]

https://twitter.com/barackobama/status/ ... 95330?s=21

[Little Raven]

https://twitter.com/alweaver22/status/1 ... 5201905666

[Smoove_B]

Yeah, I saw the video. She was trying to climb through a broken window in a Capitol hallway. Don't know the area she was trying to get into, but I don't think she should have been shot.

We don't know who they were protecting when they shot her. It won't surprise me to learn Pelosi or some other HVT was on the other side of that window.

[malchior]

Chris Hayes has my energy right now. He is basically on right now pointing out that it is insane that we are watching these Congresspeople running through a 'decrepit procedure' while the President is plotting his next attack on our Democracy.

[Smoove_B]

Chris Hayes has my energy right now. He is basically on right now pointing out that it is insane that we are watching these Congresspeople running through a 'decrepit procedure' while the President is plotting his next attack on our Democracy.

Exactly. This should have been a one minute ceremony. You want to make a 5 minute speech or opine on democracy, let's do it some other time. Shit is on fire.

[Grifman]

These protestors are really stupid. The guy with his feet on Pelosi's desk has already been identified and interviewed by a news channel. Does he really think he's going to get away with this. Anybody that can be identified is going to be facing serious charges.

https://twitter.com/MichaelSnow10/statu ... 69858?s=20