Octopus Overlords

TheMix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:44 am My bitter pill? I just got promoted to manager. So now I see pay. The other two people on my team make more than I do. Significantly more. And have for the last two years since they were hired. And that's after getting two big bumps. Oh, did I mention that I was the Senior person on the team? And that I did, and still do, over half of the total amount of work. Bitter? Oh yeah I'm bitter.

That's time for a conversation.

That conversation kind of happened when I got the promotion. My Director (previously my manager - who was not directly involved with the hirings) was the one that warned me I was going to be pissed, and then told me why. He is working on it. Apparently there is another cycle in March. We'll see how it goes then.

One thing I absolutely know is that there is zero chance that either of the people is going to be promoted to Senior while I'm doing more work than they are for less pay. Not gonna happen.

Stay at a company long enough and you will fall behind. Hopefully they do some level of catch-up once in a while. My company does regular compensation reviews and periodic adjustment to stay competitive and when they do those adjustments they will help out the long-timers a bit. It's nice to get a 28% bump without a promotion. On the other hand, that gives you an idea how far behind I had fallen.

Being in sales, this whole comp discussion is fascinating (and completely foreign) to me. If I want to make more, I have to go out and sell more. If I sell less, I make less.

I’m a little more stable now because I have an established territory 15 years in, but my first few years I was seeing swings of 30-50% year to year in what I made. We got really good at budgeting towards the bottom of those swings and sticking anything extra aside.

coopasonic wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 4:21 pm Stay at a company long enough and you will fall behind. Hopefully they do some level of catch-up once in a while. My company does regular compensation reviews and periodic adjustment to stay competitive and when they do those adjustments they will help out the long-timers a bit. It's nice to get a 28% bump without a promotion. On the other hand, that gives you an idea how far behind I had fallen.

Mine did as well. That is how I knew I was a top 5% wage earner for my position type. If the industry was doing well, they did a re-eval every year but then topped out my raises at 3%. When the industry was in the shitter, they went 10 years without a re-eval. When I finally I an industry comparison, I got a 20% raise that year.

TheMix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:44 am My bitter pill? I just got promoted to manager. So now I see pay. The other two people on my team make more than I do. Significantly more. And have for the last two years since they were hired. And that's after getting two big bumps. Oh, did I mention that I was the Senior person on the team? And that I did, and still do, over half of the total amount of work. Bitter? Oh yeah I'm bitter.

Wait, even as a manager you are making less than your direct reports?? I was promoted to Director two years ago, and honestly, I am in the bottom 30% of my pay range, and I have managers that are close to my pay, but I still make more. I know the other directors make more than I do, but I am still making a ton of money, and they recently gave all of us a retention bonus since we are implementing a big deal system and working 12 hour days. But I don't think I would stay for long if they promoted me and people reporting to me, doing non-management work were making more than me. Not for long anyway, get the experience and move on.

RMC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:51 pm

TheMix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:44 am My bitter pill? I just got promoted to manager. So now I see pay. The other two people on my team make more than I do. Significantly more. And have for the last two years since they were hired. And that's after getting two big bumps. Oh, did I mention that I was the Senior person on the team? And that I did, and still do, over half of the total amount of work. Bitter? Oh yeah I'm bitter.

Wait, even as a manager you are making less than your direct reports?? I was promoted to Director two years ago, and honestly, I am in the bottom 30% of my pay range, and I have managers that are close to my pay, but I still make more. I know the other directors make more than I do, but I am still making a ton of money, and they recently gave all of us a retention bonus since we are implementing a big deal system and working 12 hour days. But I don't think I would stay for long if they promoted me and people reporting to me, doing non-management work were making more than me. Not for long anyway, get the experience and move on.

Correct. As a manager I am making less. However, the more relevant piece is that I was also making less for the last two years as the Senior person on the team. This is despite two significant pay increases. The person I'm most pissed at is the manager that hired both of my team members at more pay even though I was Senior.

As for leaving... I'm not interested in finding a new job. When I leave this one it will be to retire. I could retire early in as little as 3 years. Or today, if I had to. But I am not interested in trying to find a new job just to retire 3-5 years after getting hired. However, I will be continuing to pressure my Director for additional pay bumps. And, until either of my team shows substantial initiative and a significant increase in workload, I won't be giving out any promotions.

RMC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:51 pm

TheMix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:44 am My bitter pill? I just got promoted to manager. So now I see pay. The other two people on my team make more than I do. Significantly more. And have for the last two years since they were hired. And that's after getting two big bumps. Oh, did I mention that I was the Senior person on the team? And that I did, and still do, over half of the total amount of work. Bitter? Oh yeah I'm bitter.

Wait, even as a manager you are making less than your direct reports?? I was promoted to Director two years ago, and honestly, I am in the bottom 30% of my pay range, and I have managers that are close to my pay, but I still make more. I know the other directors make more than I do, but I am still making a ton of money, and they recently gave all of us a retention bonus since we are implementing a big deal system and working 12 hour days. But I don't think I would stay for long if they promoted me and people reporting to me, doing non-management work were making more than me. Not for long anyway, get the experience and move on.

I have make significantly more than my boss in each of the past 3 years.

It’s one of the main reasons I have absolutely zero desire to move into sales management.

Commissioned sales is a different beast.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 7:47 pm

RMC wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 6:51 pm

TheMix wrote: ↑Thu Sep 28, 2023 9:44 am My bitter pill? I just got promoted to manager. So now I see pay. The other two people on my team make more than I do. Significantly more. And have for the last two years since they were hired. And that's after getting two big bumps. Oh, did I mention that I was the Senior person on the team? And that I did, and still do, over half of the total amount of work. Bitter? Oh yeah I'm bitter.

Wait, even as a manager you are making less than your direct reports?? I was promoted to Director two years ago, and honestly, I am in the bottom 30% of my pay range, and I have managers that are close to my pay, but I still make more. I know the other directors make more than I do, but I am still making a ton of money, and they recently gave all of us a retention bonus since we are implementing a big deal system and working 12 hour days. But I don't think I would stay for long if they promoted me and people reporting to me, doing non-management work were making more than me. Not for long anyway, get the experience and move on.

I have make significantly more than my boss in each of the past 3 years.

It’s one of the main reasons I have absolutely zero desire to move into sales management.

Yeah, Sales is most likely an outlier, never really done management in that area. I would bet even the management would be incentivived by what the sales people under them sell, or new clients, etc.. But salary, nope, I should always make more, except in some unique sitautions, never say never, right?

These stories make me like my employer more (where I only have experience for salaried, non-commissioned jobs). Each job has a band and a midpoint. Everyone lower is pushed toward the midpoint - assuming satisfactory ratings - and they get pushed faster the farther they are from it. They can move above the midpoint if they outperform (get high ratings), but getting more than 10% past it is exceedingly difficult. End result is most people get paid very similarly for the same job title (assuming they have the same ratings).

I switched employers in March 2022 and I still ask myself why I waited so long. I had been at my previous employer for 23 years and went through a lot. Broken promises, multiple leadership changes, and poor managerial choices, led me to leave. The final nail in the coffin was when this $30 million a year family owned business sold out to a private equity firm, and it all became about numbers. Profitability, goal times, efficiency numbers, and cost cutting and I couldn't take it any longer. So I accepted a job with a small, founder owned business. I get paid a lot more and I am treated so much better. I never felt appreciated at my former employer until I turned in my resignation and they then begged me to reconsider and stay. But they were not even going to match the pay offer or address all the other BS I had to deal with so I walked. It was nice to get the 300 hours of PTO paid out .

This past August the company I went to work for bought the facility of my former employer and now this former employer are our tenants . I am not privy to the numbers but I feel this takeover has put my current company under tremendous financial strain. So I don't know I will be here till I can retire or have to make another change in the future.

They let our entire sales team go today which included me. Large company bought out our 20 person team earlier this year, and I saw this coming but didn’t move quickly enough.

Not sure I want to continue in sales, but at this point I can’t be picky.

Gah.

Sucks but at least on your resume they didn't just let you go. If you start looking right away, I wish a speedy new placement. I also hope you got a good compensation for being let go.

Sorry - hope you find something quickly!

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Oct 02, 2023 2:16 pm Sucks but at least on your resume they didn't just let you go. If you start looking right away, I wish a speedy new placement. I also hope you got a good compensation for being let go.

Thanks guys, and no, the comp was terrible, but I only have one personal reference point, and I think anything would look terrible compared to that.

This time, the HR/salary/insurance/severance was handled by the tiny company that I was originally hired by. So the severance is an amazing two weeks pay (offered, though I am fighting that). That REALLY sucks for someone 50 years old (I think). I was there for a year and a half.

Several years ago, when I was laid off, the severance/salary/insurance, etc was already being handled by the large company that acquired the small company I was originally hired by. I had worked at OG company for 15 years, and we got bought, then I worked for 3 more years for acquiring company. Severance was 1.5 YEARS of salary. I also was given full insurance coverage (me and family, wife was not working at the time), for 6 months after. It was a great package, I admit, so this one is quite the turd in comparison, even compensating for the difference in "years worked".

Hopefully I learned lessons from the last laying off - maybe due to the massive payout, I spent the next several years spiraling into very dark places, and I refer to it as my "wandering the desert" time. I basically did menial, physical labor and jobs for about 4 years bc I was not in a headspace to get back in the corporate world. OTOH I was cut as fuck, and literally the best shape of my life since college, easily. Went from 215lbs to 180, so maybe I can recreate that w/o the mental breakdown.

I am trying to decide getting a "full-time" $25-28 per hour job, keeping the current $27 but VERY "cushy" and fulfilling 17.5 hour per week job @$27 per hour, or trying to apply for something that's a single job with benefits and everything, but starting all over from the bottom, at the age of 53...

That's how old I am, and right now I am an under-employed IT tech plowing my trade supporting senior centers of San Francisco... and the job is only guaranteed until year's end, no promise of further funding. But it's fulfilling, as I am helping seniors understanding tech and improve their lives. But it's not exactly helping me retire my debts, or build up a retirement fund.

I think I see a remote support job I can get that promise to pay full 40 hours at a similar salary range. Just applied, hopefully receive answer soon. If I can keep both I'll do so, but I'd rather take a remote job than commute job. I don't even own a car any more. A car in San Francisco makes me poor.

Or I can make a full career change to cybersecurity, or Youtube video making, or writing, LOL. They keep saying cybersecurity is a field to get into, but nobody is really hiring entry-level cybersecurity. I'm studying up and polishing my resumes, but I'm not optimistic, esp. with no car in San Francisco.

This is a rant, not personally about my career but on the perceived direction of the group I work in; as discussed between my best friend at work and myself. We are in our early 50s and both made careers developing computer programs to solve problems posed by scientists and engineers on various missions. We are of the opinion that few work problems are unsolvable - you just need to dig in and do the research, ask questions, and do some on the job learning.

Lately we've noticed that the new crop of developers just doesn't want to put in the hard work. It's not that they are not intelligent, they just seem lazy. As an example, on one project the team inherited an old java app which interrogates an external server, downloads files, and then sends email status messages. It's old - written in Java 5 and using an API to call C++ compiled code. Two years ago the app failed and was sending out error messages saying "could not send contact the server to send email". My friend dug into the log files, found out that the root cause was a file that the app doesn't recognize. Rather than isolating the file and moving it somewhere else, the developer of the app just ignores it, and because it wasn't supposed to be there it causes other threads in the app to fail, cascading until it throws the "cant send email" message.

So, it used to be the responsibility of an old-timer on the team to manage this app, and once my friend told him of this problem the old-timer would manually scan the folders every morning, make sure no "unrecognized" files were there, and everything was good. The old-timer is now retired an one of the younger folks (late 20s) on the team stepped in to assume responsibility. This person is a Java developer and has had several years experience writing code.

Error happens again this year. Because my friend has many tasks to manage they forgot what the solution was, but more importantly, asked the younger person to look into it. A few days pass. The solution? "Oh, I just rebooted the app and it fixed itself." Which is a bad idea because the app moves files around using streams, and if you reboot it in the middle of transferring data that means the data is lost, but that hasn't been catastrophic because we get files regularly at a certain time and they rebooted after that time. But still - not a good solution. My friend finally delves into it again, remembers the problem and explains it to the new developer, stopping short of telling them exactly what to do about it because they figure they are at Senior Staff level and will get the gist, write a program to scan for these files, and move them somewhere else and send an email.

They don't do it. The error happened again last week. I remember my friend ranting to me when this first happened, so I gently try to prod them into action by asking questions about it and bringing up the fact that it's not an email problem - its a bad file problem. My friend rants to me privately again and says they are going to have to end up writing a shell script to fix it. I tell them don't do it - tell them exactly what to do as if they are a new developer, which is what I would do.

Which begs the question - have any of you other developers seen this sort of situation? I mean, it's not hard to try to find the root cause. Look at the log files, then look at the source code. You know what program is being called. Follow the line of code until you get to the part where it needs to send the email. Figure out the conditional which triggers the email send, look there, look at the folders being referenced. Go "AHA" this file shouldn't be here. I don't consider it a hard thing to do; it's just time consuming and requires focus but that's why we're in the group we are in.

Edited to remove names and use "they/them" pronouns

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:07 amWhich begs the question - have any of you other developers seen this sort of situation? I mean, it's not hard to try to find the root cause. Look at the log files, then look at the source code. You know what program is being called. Follow the line of code until you get to the part where it needs to send the email. Figure out the conditional which triggers the email send, look there, look at the folders being referenced. Go "AHA" this file shouldn't be here. I don't consider it a hard thing to do; it's just time consuming and requires focus but that's why we're in the group we are in.

Edited to remove names and use "they/them" pronouns

I've seen this behavior in lots of IT situations beyond development. I see it often where there is some body of "technical debt". No one is going to be excited to spend time fixing very old stuff especially when there is current work with potential deadlines in front of them. I'm assuming this but it is usually true.

msteelers wrote: ↑Tue Sep 26, 2023 7:32 pm I got the official job offer today and it is… quite a bit lower than I was hoping for. They asked me for a potential pay range at the beginning of the process. I knew they would come in either below or in the low-mid part of the pay range, but this is even a bit lower than I was expecting.

I’m going to need them to come up about $10k from their offer in order for me to even get to the low end of what I would need to be paid.

I have my response largely typed out, thanking them, reiterating my experience, and the value I bring to the company. I’m just torn on what value to counter with. My instinct was a number that’s about 18% higher than their offer. That feels like a massive jump, but if I go much lower I’ll be close to my minimum.

I realized I never posted an update on this.

After a short back and forth via email I ended up wishing them luck and walking away from the offer because we were too far apart on the price. My boss was asking me how the interview went and I told him he was going to be stuck with me for a while longer. As he was leaving the room my phone pinged with the email notification that they had accepted my counteroffer.

So, the last two-plus weeks have been a scramble of trying to tie up any loose ends at the old job and prepare for this new one. My last day at the old place was Friday the 13th, which is some type of omen. I'm not sure if it's good or bad!

I started the new job yesterday and so far it's been great. But I'm still in the early stages where I'm trying to learn and get into the swing of things. I've had a lot of meetings the last few days, but not many actionable tasks (which is pretty common when starting new jobs).

Of course, last night I got some kind of stomach bug so today has been a bit rough.

Nice. A job offer is the best time to play hardball, as your perceived value is at its max in your prospective new employer's eyes. Glad they saw it your way and met your demand.

I see people using the easy, but self-defeating solution every day. I feel like Abe Simpson yelling at the sky, because coworkers can't see beyond the next two minutes.

1) Congrats msteelers

2) I found that when I was leaving my last job, while not applicable to all of the younger (20something) hires, the ones it applied to, it really applied to WRT being lazy. So now I'm just old cranky guy and it's probably always been that way but I was too young to notice.

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:45 am

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:07 amWhich begs the question - have any of you other developers seen this sort of situation? I mean, it's not hard to try to find the root cause. Look at the log files, then look at the source code. You know what program is being called. Follow the line of code until you get to the part where it needs to send the email. Figure out the conditional which triggers the email send, look there, look at the folders being referenced. Go "AHA" this file shouldn't be here. I don't consider it a hard thing to do; it's just time consuming and requires focus but that's why we're in the group we are in.

Edited to remove names and use "they/them" pronouns

I've seen this behavior in lots of IT situations beyond development. I see it often where there is some body of "technical debt". No one is going to be excited to spend time fixing very old stuff especially when there is current work with potential deadlines in front of them. I'm assuming this but it is usually true.

Except I consider this part of the job description of "person in charge of downloading mission data" and part of the "current work". And this is an ongoing mission, so resetting the application doesn't seem to me to be a safe mode of operation.

I don't have any direct experience with what you're seeing, but I frequently interact with a cohort that likes to CTRL-F an answer without any contextual application and submit that query as a response. My point here is that I am absolutely noticing there's been a trend in finding the fastest solution without any consideration for bigger picture elements. It wouldn't surprise me to learn that this is what that turns into for a workplace environment.

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:10 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:45 am

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:07 amWhich begs the question - have any of you other developers seen this sort of situation? I mean, it's not hard to try to find the root cause. Look at the log files, then look at the source code. You know what program is being called. Follow the line of code until you get to the part where it needs to send the email. Figure out the conditional which triggers the email send, look there, look at the folders being referenced. Go "AHA" this file shouldn't be here. I don't consider it a hard thing to do; it's just time consuming and requires focus but that's why we're in the group we are in.

Edited to remove names and use "they/them" pronouns

I've seen this behavior in lots of IT situations beyond development. I see it often where there is some body of "technical debt". No one is going to be excited to spend time fixing very old stuff especially when there is current work with potential deadlines in front of them. I'm assuming this but it is usually true.

Except I consider this part of the job description of "person in charge of downloading mission data" and part of the "current work". And this is an ongoing mission, so resetting the application doesn't seem to me to be a safe mode of operation.

Oh I get it. I'm more saying it might not be lazy but more a matter of them being driven more by what they think the PHBs care about. That was what I was getting at about incentives and priorities. We'll often hear a lot of talk from leaders about maintaining the 'day job' as they load up folks with project work or priority tasks and then often track only the project work. I'm not saying that is what's happening but I see that behavior in many companies, agencies, etc. that I've had contact with over the years.

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:38 pm

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:10 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:45 am

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:07 amWhich begs the question - have any of you other developers seen this sort of situation? I mean, it's not hard to try to find the root cause. Look at the log files, then look at the source code. You know what program is being called. Follow the line of code until you get to the part where it needs to send the email. Figure out the conditional which triggers the email send, look there, look at the folders being referenced. Go "AHA" this file shouldn't be here. I don't consider it a hard thing to do; it's just time consuming and requires focus but that's why we're in the group we are in.

Edited to remove names and use "they/them" pronouns

I've seen this behavior in lots of IT situations beyond development. I see it often where there is some body of "technical debt". No one is going to be excited to spend time fixing very old stuff especially when there is current work with potential deadlines in front of them. I'm assuming this but it is usually true.

Except I consider this part of the job description of "person in charge of downloading mission data" and part of the "current work". And this is an ongoing mission, so resetting the application doesn't seem to me to be a safe mode of operation.

Oh I get it. I'm more saying it might not be lazy but more a matter of them being driven more by what they think the PHBs care about. That was what I was getting at about incentives and priorities. We'll often hear a lot of talk from leaders about maintaining the 'day job' as they load up folks with project work or priority tasks and then often track only the project work. I'm not saying that is what's happening but I see that behavior in many companies, agencies, etc. that I've had contact with over the years.

Quick question: What is a PHB? Must be a corporate term, cause I've never heard of it.
Oh wait, nevermind. I just had to think Dilbert.

I’ve been doing this job for almost 30 years. I have never worked a day in my life where there weren’t lazy developers about.

On a happier note, a guy that used to work on my team back during the early stages of the pandemic has applied for a job for a friend of mine. He is not aware that the interviewer is one of my close friends, that the interviewer worked on my team as well (but left two months before this guy started).

He is also not aware that it is known that he lied on every bullet point of his resume relative to that job. He is about to learn an important lesson - if you claim on your resume that you wrote X, and you actually played no role in it whatsoever - getting interviewed by the guy that actually wrote it is going to be difficult.

Well, I'm taking a HUGE leap. I was in banking for like 10 years and went into insurance and realized I loved it but hated working for someone. So now... I'm in final talks to start my own insurance agency here in the year of our lord 2023. I have a few partners lined up, and I think this is a winner. I'm unreasonably excited.

Wow, congrats! That’s a big step.

My dad had a long career as a successful insurance salesman (property and casualty) until his employer -- well, it's a long complicated story, but he ended up striking out on his own. He was not particularly good at business, and his health slowly failed. It tanked after a year or so.

Not the story you wanted to hear. That was a long time ago in a place far away and a particular set of circumstances; I'm sure your adventure will be better. Just wanted to say that I understand how the insurance biz used to work.

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:38 pm

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 12:10 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:45 am

raydude wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:07 amWhich begs the question - have any of you other developers seen this sort of situation? I mean, it's not hard to try to find the root cause. Look at the log files, then look at the source code. You know what program is being called. Follow the line of code until you get to the part where it needs to send the email. Figure out the conditional which triggers the email send, look there, look at the folders being referenced. Go "AHA" this file shouldn't be here. I don't consider it a hard thing to do; it's just time consuming and requires focus but that's why we're in the group we are in.

Edited to remove names and use "they/them" pronouns

I've seen this behavior in lots of IT situations beyond development. I see it often where there is some body of "technical debt". No one is going to be excited to spend time fixing very old stuff especially when there is current work with potential deadlines in front of them. I'm assuming this but it is usually true.

Except I consider this part of the job description of "person in charge of downloading mission data" and part of the "current work". And this is an ongoing mission, so resetting the application doesn't seem to me to be a safe mode of operation.

Oh I get it. I'm more saying it might not be lazy but more a matter of them being driven more by what they think the PHBs care about. That was what I was getting at about incentives and priorities. We'll often hear a lot of talk from leaders about maintaining the 'day job' as they load up folks with project work or priority tasks and then often track only the project work. I'm not saying that is what's happening but I see that behavior in many companies, agencies, etc. that I've had contact with over the years.

This... very much this. Day to day is 80-120% of my job. In years past, it was 5-10% of my goal. Yes you need the other stuff done to grow, but if you tell me 90-95% of my goals are based on other stuff, don't expect me to put much effort in the day to day keeping the lights on stuff. And when that happens, don't be surprised when the lights go out.

Zenn7 wrote: ↑Thu Oct 19, 2023 9:00 am This... very much this. Day to day is 80-120% of my job. In years past, it was 5-10% of my goal. Yes you need the other stuff done to grow, but if you tell me 90-95% of my goals are based on other stuff, don't expect me to put much effort in the day to day keeping the lights on stuff. And when that happens, don't be surprised when the lights go out.

100% of my goals were always outside of my normal responsibilities and then it was expected you would somehow integrate the new stuff as you moved forward. More with less. I was really good at it for the first 10+ years, often stating my job was to put myself out of job. By 15 years, I was overworked. At 20, goals were puppies, and I wasn't taking care of all of my responsibilities. As I approached 25, I don't know why they kept me around. I was horrible at my job... But oddly, new guy after nearly 2 years is still apparently way worse than I was when I was doing nothing but being frazzled, and he had less than 80% of my responsibility. It feels good that my old boss still wants me back, even as I know I can't do the job and my misery factor would go back to 11.

Right now, for funsies, I'm trying to learn the entirety of Azure in less than 7 days, by going through the Microsoft Cybersecurity Analyst Professional Certificate Course (on Coursera) (in 7 days or less). I'm on my third day, and I just started on Course 5 of 9, but these are getting pretty darn dense. I *think* I can make it by day 7, but I don't think I can retain enough to pass the SC-900 test. It will require additional study, which I don't mind.

UPDATE: Clearly, I should have investigated closer, since I just finished Course 6 of 9, trying to do number 7, then realized 7, 8, and 9 are NOT AVAILABLE yet. 7 won't be ready until just before Thanksgiving, while 8 and 9 won't be ready until year's end. I did learn a lot, but it's not possible to get the certificate at this point.

I think I'll go do the IBM one instead.

just got laid off yesterday:

https://www.satellitetoday.com/business ... -business/

That sucks. Hopefully you got a decent package. Good luck. I hope you are able to find something new quickly.

+1 May the lead to better things..

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Tue Oct 17, 2023 9:05 pm I’ve been doing this job for almost 30 years. I have never worked a day in my life where there weren’t lazy developers about.

On a happier note, a guy that used to work on my team back during the early stages of the pandemic has applied for a job for a friend of mine. He is not aware that the interviewer is one of my close friends, that the interviewer worked on my team as well (but left two months before this guy started).

He is also not aware that it is known that he lied on every bullet point of his resume relative to that job. He is about to learn an important lesson - if you claim on your resume that you wrote X, and you actually played no role in it whatsoever - getting interviewed by the guy that actually wrote it is going to be difficult.

I'd love an AAR on this one! Sounds juicy.