tesla motors

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:04 pm

stessier wrote:Come to the Volt thread! Same tax credit and it charges on 110V circuit in 13 hours (ish) or 4.5 hours on a 240V circuit.

4.5 hours for 40 miles of electric range @ 240V? What the actual fuck is it doing? I hope the answer is 'pulling much less than 240V/40A'.
(A Tesla charging 40 miles of range @ 240V would take < 90 min.) My guess is that the battery in the Volt, being much smaller, has a lower C rate and is also being babied by the firmware more than the Tesla.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:07 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
stessier wrote:Come to the Volt thread! Same tax credit and it charges on 110V circuit in 13 hours (ish) or 4.5 hours on a 240V circuit.
4.5 hours for 40 miles of electric range @ 240V?

That's the time for 50 miles of charge on the 2016 model I believe.

What the actual fuck is it doing?

Presumably acting as a space heater for part of the time. Maybe filing for tax credits. Hard to say.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:09 pm

Zaxxon wrote:Cool to hear about the tax situation.

Don't tell LM that.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:11 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Cool to hear about the tax situation.
Don't tell LM that.

A thousand times this!

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:13 pm

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 3:17 pm

Zaxxon wrote:I hope the answer is 'pulling much less than 240V/40A'.

A little digging looks like they based that on either a 16A or 30A charging station, can't really tell.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:08 pm

Zaxxon wrote:
stessier wrote:Come to the Volt thread! Same tax credit and it charges on 110V circuit in 13 hours (ish) or 4.5 hours on a 240V circuit.
4.5 hours for 40 miles of electric range @ 240V? What the actual fuck is it doing? I hope the answer is 'pulling much less than 240V/40A'.
(A Tesla charging 40 miles of range @ 240V would take < 90 min.) My guess is that the battery in the Volt, being much smaller, has a lower C rate and is also being babied by the firmware more than the Tesla.

Neither seems at all practical. 200 miles and charging in the same amount of time it takes to fill a tank of gas? That'll get my attention. I can't even manage a round-trip to work with this tiny amount of miles, and my commute isn't that long!

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:14 pm

The idea is that your employer or local garage provides a charging station on their end as well. The infrastructure is still a massive work in progress. It's not for you, Jeff.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:19 pm

Jeff V wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:
stessier wrote:Come to the Volt thread! Same tax credit and it charges on 110V circuit in 13 hours (ish) or 4.5 hours on a 240V circuit.
4.5 hours for 40 miles of electric range @ 240V? What the actual fuck is it doing? I hope the answer is 'pulling much less than 240V/40A'.
(A Tesla charging 40 miles of range @ 240V would take < 90 min.) My guess is that the battery in the Volt, being much smaller, has a lower C rate and is also being babied by the firmware more than the Tesla.
Neither seems at all practical. 200 miles and charging in the same amount of time it takes to fill a tank of gas? That'll get my attention. I can't even manage a round-trip to work with this tiny amount of miles, and my commute isn't that long!

I drive maybe 40 miles a week and private garage at each end. Would be perfect for me. And judging by the number of Teslas I see on my commute it works for a lot of other people as well.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:21 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:The idea is that your employer or local garage provides a charging station on their end as well. The infrastructure is still a massive work in progress. It's not for you, Jeff.

My employer has ChargePoint stations in the parking garage in preferred parking locations, right next to the handicap spaces. Volts and Leafs enjoy that option and parking.

The Volt has a gas engine able to assist and take over to make up for the short range as well.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 6:23 pm

Also, don't confuse home charging with Supercharging. It's not as fast as gas, but it's not exactly slow, either. a 40-minute stop for lunch/potty time and you're driving for another 2-3 hours. That won't work for everyone, but it'd work for me.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:21 pm

China not looking so good according to Musk, TSLA dipped down to 188 at one point.

Other comments, he doesn't see GAAP profitability before 2020 but he said he's committed to stick with TSLA "as long as I'm alive." Not necessarily as CEO but "with the company."

All off DJNW so no links but should be in articles soon.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 8:23 pm

Other comments included Model X this summer "for sure" and more fuel cell bashing.

Zurai · Post by **Zurai** » Tue Jan 13, 2015 11:15 pm

I actually saw a Tesla here (Jacksonville, FL) a couple months ago. Was really cool to see. As far as I know there's only one or two charging stations here, and I've only seen the one car, but if I should magically win the lottery (would have to be magic since I don't buy tickets) I'd buy a Tesla the instant all my bills and debts were paid off.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 2:45 am

Last time I was in the Berkshires a museum there had a prime parking area reserved for EVs. There were three Teslas parked there. Those are the only ones I've ever seen. I'm sure there must be some on Boston roads -- and especially Cambridge roads -- but I usually take the T into the city so I don't see many cars there.

Chaz · Post by **Chaz** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 9:44 am

Kraken wrote:Last time I was in the Berkshires a museum there had a prime parking area reserved for EVs. There were three Teslas parked there. Those are the only ones I've ever seen. I'm sure there must be some on Boston roads -- and especially Cambridge roads -- but I usually take the T into the city so I don't see many cars there.

They're all on 128 heading to Waltham for work. At the first office I worked at there a few years ago, there was a safety orange Tesla Roadster that was parked in our lot every day. I always wanted to leave a note on the windshield politely asking for a test drive. I also saw a Model S on the highway every once in a while. Of course, the bumper to bumper traffic didn't really give it a chance to stretch its legs.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:14 am

I've seen exactly one Tesla S in Omaha and that was only a fleeting glimpse that was just enough to identify it.

There is at least one Chevy Volt and a Nissan Leaf in our parking lot each day.

There are currently no charging stations either in our lot or in the garage that I'm aware of.

disarm · Post by **disarm** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:23 am

I actually see Teslas fairly often in CT, probably because the charging network is pretty well established in the northeast. In fact, my fiance's boss as a Tesla P85...very cool car. I also see people driving the Volt and Nissan Leaf regularly, and one of my co-workers recently bought a BMW i3. Apparently electric cars are relatively popular in the Hartford area.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:32 am

I have a co-worker that owns a Tesla S. I've been really wanting to take a drive in it, but he's a pompous douchbag that I avoid interacting with at all costs.

And we have a half dozen charging stations at each of the large buildings on our campus, so an electric car would be great for me (at least back and forth to work. That occasional trip to Indianapolis or down to my parents would be problematic...

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:34 am

hentzau wrote:And we have a half dozen charging stations at each of the large buildings on our campus, so an electric car would be great for me (at least back and forth to work. That occasional trip to Indianapolis or down to my parents would be problematic...

The Chicago-Indy I-65 route already has a Supercharger (in Lafayette), so it's no problem at all. There's also one in South Indy and a couple in the Chicagoland area.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:35 am

Of course, that last post assumes you're talking about Tesla and not a Leaf.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:38 am

Yeah, if I would ever go that route it would be a Tesla. I still have a good four years on my current vehicle, we'll see where we end up at the end of that time.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:45 am

If we were in the market for a new car, we would very much be looking at the current crop of electric only vehicles as the wife and I carpool to work since her clinic and my office are only a few blocks apart and total round trip to and from work for us is about 15 miles which is well within the limitations of all of the available cars.

However, not having a car payment is far better than a new car right now so we'll keep going with our '07 Honda Fit.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 10:58 am

Isgrimnur wrote:The idea is that your employer or local garage provides a charging station on their end as well. The infrastructure is still a massive work in progress. It's not for you, Jeff.

I drove 120 miles last night just visiting a friend in the northern suburbs (and not even the far northern suburbs). Such a limited range means an extra car is needed, so add that to the cost. A car that can only be used to run local errands really needs to be dirt cheap to be practical -- if I had to make a choice to spend $$$ on an errand car or one that I'll spend a substantial amount of my life in, I think I would choose the latter. And then question why I even need an errand car -- with such limited use, the cost per mile will be as high or higher than a gas engine. Do you really need to be stylin' on the short drive to the supermarket?

Another question -- what is the drain on batteries when the car is idling? I would think heavy traffic would affect the range, just as it affects gas mileage in a normal car.

I think I've only seen chargers in the wild once or twice, and none in any garages I parked in and certainly not my employer's parking lot. That's probably why I can count on one hand the number of electric cars I've seen, ever (and I only once saw a Tesla). Now, I know there's a whole chicken and egg thing regarding chargers -- but the impracticality of expensive, super short-range vehicles creates a very limited market. They really need to have a more useful range AND be able to be recharged very quickly so the car can be used on road trips.

telcta · Post by **telcta** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:05 am

disarm wrote:I actually see Teslas fairly often in CT, probably because the charging network is pretty well established in the northeast. In fact, my fiance's boss as a Tesla P85...very cool car. I also see people driving the Volt and Nissan Leaf regularly, and one of my co-workers recently bought a BMW i3. Apparently electric cars are relatively popular in the Hartford area.

I've been driving a Fusion Energi plugin for almost a year now and one place I park there is only one charging station. It's either me or a Tesla. When I see it charging I know it'll be a while before it's done. Mine would fully charge in about 2.5 hours, enough to shop and hit a restaurant.

I'm happy to see more and more charging stations and so far they are all free to use (at least the ones I've been to). There is a huge solar powered one at GE in Plainville that I stop and charge up if I'm hanging out in that area.

i wish our parking garage at work would install a station and since it's owned by the city I'm hoping that would happen soon. I would feel weird parking for over 8 hours taking a spot when it's fully charged so quickly and I don't feel like walking 5 blocks to move it every day.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:06 am

Jeff V wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:The idea is that your employer or local garage provides a charging station on their end as well. The infrastructure is still a massive work in progress. It's not for you, Jeff.
I drove 120 miles last night just visiting a friend in the northern suburbs (and not even the far northern suburbs). Such a limited range means an extra car is needed, so add that to the cost.

You would still have had half a charge left if you didn't take the opportunity to charge up while visiting your friend. How is that limited?

A car that can only be used to run local errands really needs to be dirt cheap to be practical

Indeed. Fortunately, the Tesla is not that.

Another question -- what is the drain on batteries when the car is idling? I would think heavy traffic would affect the range, just as it affects gas mileage in a normal car.

Virtually nothing. The car stops when you do.

Now, I know there's a whole chicken and egg thing regarding chargers -- but the impracticality of expensive, super short-range vehicles creates a very limited market. They really need to have a more useful range AND be able to be recharged very quickly so the car can be used on road trips.

Something like 90% of people are covered by the 240 mile range of the battery for daily driving. On the I-95 corridor, the charger stations are spaced so that 45 minutes of charging gets you to the next one with some to spare. It's not perfect, but it is very good.

The car may not be for you, but it is good enough for many people. Now they just have to work on price.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:10 am

Jeff, I'm not sure if you're being intentionally obtuse or not, but your last post makes the Tesla case very well. Still problematic for the lower-range EVs, but not so much for a Tesla.

Your 120 mile drive would be about half the car's range: total non-issue. The drain on the pack when idling is very low aside from right after starting up in the cold or when running climate control at high levels (just like in an ICE vehicle--MPG is terrible for the first 20-30 minutes in cold weather). Chargers in and around Chicago are quite common, and Tesla alone has numerous Superchargers in the area, and along virtually all major highways leading out of Chicago already. Your definition of 'able to be recharged very quickly' may differ from mine, but on a road trip I don't see a 30-40 minute charge time every few hours as too crazy--I needs to eat and my kids need to use the bathroom. When I was 20 I might go 400 miles, stop only for a 10-minute gas and a pee break, then do another 400. Not anymore, and almost no one actually does that.

It's true that it's a chicken/egg problem, but it is getting better. Tesla has 338 Supercharger stations out there, with plans for hundreds more in the next year or two. The changelog at Supercharge.info is rather incredible IMO. Aside from folks who drive all day, every day, road trips just aren't an issue. Tesla has also already raised the Supercharger power level from 90 kW to 135 kW, and as they further improve that, charge times will drop.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:18 am

Well, it would certainly suck for me.

I live in Omaha and the only two cities I ever drive to are Denver (Longmont, really) and Chicago.

My entire I80 drive in either direction would mean we'd be screwed even in a Tesla and yet, I would still buy one if I had the means.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:19 am

I love how Nebraska and Iowa hate the future.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:19 am

Brian, check out the 2016 map here.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:22 am

Isgrimnur wrote:I love how Nebraska and Iowa hate the future.

Well, they do produce a lot of ethanol, so perhaps they are just doing what they can to protect their industry.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:22 am

2016 looks good...And I still won't be able to afford a Tesla by then.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:24 am

Brian wrote:2016 looks good...And I still won't be able to afford a Tesla by then.

From my perspective, the key date is 2017 and the Model 3's release. It looks like the charging infrastructure will be in great shape when the 3 hits.

Brian · Post by **Brian** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:35 am

We're planning on moving in about five years anyway and we are looking at AZ or NV so that would be a good time to switch over to an EV coupled with the perfect location.

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:35 am

Zaxxon wrote:Brian, check out the 2016 map here.

The future hates the U.P.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:39 am

The Meal wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Brian, check out the 2016 map here.
The future hates the U.P.

Is it really hate if it's complete indifference to the 300k people that live spread out over 16k square miles in "cities" that don't top 25k?

The Meal · Post by **The Meal** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:41 am

I don't think the charging stations are for the locals. I thought they were folks driving through. And road tripping across the U.P. is definitely on my every-car-I-own agenda.

I don't think I'd try for the Rhinelander to Gaylord stretch sans charger.

Zaxxon · Post by **Zaxxon** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 11:44 am

The Meal wrote:I don't think the charging stations are for the locals. I thought they were folks driving through.

Ayup.

And road tripping across the U.P. is definitely on my every-car-I-own agenda.

FWIW, Tesla has said that 2016 won't be the end of the road for Supercharger roll-out. I would imagine that if the uptake of Tesla cars around the Michigan area is strong, more SCs will be deployed there. Michigan un-banning Tesla sales wouldn't hurt, either.

Z-Corn · Post by **Z-Corn** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:07 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:
The Meal wrote:
Zaxxon wrote:Brian, check out the 2016 map here.
The future hates the U.P.
Is it really hate if it's complete indifference to the 300k people that live spread out over 16k square miles in "cities" that don't top 25k?

There is still a terrifying lack of cell coverage up there too...

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Wed Jan 14, 2015 12:13 pm

Jeff V wrote:That's probably why I can count on one hand the number of electric cars I've seen, ever (and I only once saw a Tesla).

Either you don't want to see them, don't recognize them, or suburbia is a completely different world.

I can count on one hand the number of Teslas I see per mile on my drive in. Maybe. Sometimes I'll need the second hand.