The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Pyperkub]

So, a Tuesday? Yes.

And I'm more asking because when I went to SD for the (canceled) Holiday Bowl, my old college roommate came down for the game and stayed in my hotel room and started having a nasty cough. He got back to LA and tested positive.

I was visiting my mom and cut short my visit to get home before I could possibly get contagious (note, she has cancer and is undergoing treatment).

I got that text around midnight Wednesday. Figured I'd sleep on it, but couldn't sleep at all, just worrying about what is do if I got my mom sick and she got it bad. Finally booked a morning flight out at around 2am and was able to sleep peacefully.

I got home Thursday and tried to get a test, but it was impossible (first possible availability was tomorrow) , so I'm isolating at home and Mrs. Kub is starting at her mom's.

Ordered some at home tests from Amazon and those shipped today apparently. Every local pharmacy I called was answering the phone "No, we don't have any covid tests." Before I could even ask.

Fortunately my work over the break said we'd be 100% remote (instead of 60%), until at least the 17th (school doesn't open for another week at least after that), so we have time to assess. Otherwise I would have had to call in sick (not sure if we still have special covid time reporting anymore or not) even though I feel fine.

[Isgrimnur]

I’m fully aware that I have it about as good I could get it short of being independently wealthy.

I can work from home, I earn enough that my wife doesn’t have to work, and the MIL is about as reclusive. If it weren’t for in-law drama with her son’s family, we wouldn’t interact with anyone outside the house.

I feel for those who have kids. Dealing with scheduling, school, and everything is tough in the best of times. Dealing with government nonsense on top of it has to be infuriating.

[malchior]

Oddly I find it a little comforting that it's not just here that we see things that activate the cynic alarm. I watched the clip and two things stood out. First how clearly they explained the issues in such a short time even to an audience member not familiar with all the context, and second that they didn't bring on some idiot to bothsides the issue.

https://twitter.com/DefenseBaron/status ... 6547311618

[Octavious]

I hate that prick. Doesn't help that he's Serbien.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Not sure if this has been posted before, but an interesting chart on the effectiveness of various masks. It took me longer than it should have, but I’ve now switched to wearing only N95s.

https://twitter.com/terrigivens/status/ ... 36098?s=21

[Kraken]

That chart is reassuring. I wear my N95 if I have to spend any time indoors (grocery store) and a surgical mask if I'm just running in for a few minutes (convenience store, restaurant takeout, packie). Looks like that should be adequate, as I had thought.

Wife ended up with nine out of 40 coworkers reporting covid today. They're all fully vaxxed and most said they were being careful...but apparently not careful enough. Most went to family xmas gatherings.

[Zaxxon]

Based on the nothing/nothing of 15 minutes, it seems very likely that that chart is based on alpha, no? And therefore wildly optimistic throughout?

[malchior]

If I double mask do I just add them together? J/K. I don't N95 but do a surgical w/ a cloth and my only indoor exposures are typically grocery store runs for 10 minutes (I was a speed shopper pre-pandemic anyway).

[El Guapo]

Is there any reason to expect any difference on the chart between N95 masks and KN95 masks?

[Smoove_B]

If I double mask do I just add them together? J/K. I don't N95 but do a surgical w/ a cloth and my only indoor exposures are typically grocery store runs for 10 minutes (I was a speed shopper pre-pandemic anyway).

Yeah, upgrade your mask. Or consider getting a face shield which *might* offer additional protection from air flow. And with that, the issue isn't the filtration through the mask fabric, it's the air gaps present around the mask (surgical, fabric) where it meets your face. To be clear, filtration is helping but if you have wide gaps around your mouth and face, air is going to leak in that way every time you inhale - much easier to equalize pressure though those gaps than trying to come in through the fabric.

Yes N95 masks have better filtration media, but one of the big differences is how it fits against your face - namely the additional straps that keep it tight. If this was a virus being spread by larger droplets, I think the surgical and fabric masks would still be viable. But now that we know it's likely spread via airborne particulates, we need a true barrier against the air - which N95 (or equivalent) provides.

Give something like this a whirl. I've been using the Korean style BOTN brand successfully - so much depends on your face shape and comfort preferences. But still...upgrade your mask.

And start scoping out an N100 elastomer mask for whatever is coming next.

Is there any reason to expect any difference on the chart between N95 masks and KN95 masks?

No; they are functionally equivalent. The difficulty is in making sure you have a legit KN95 that is approved as such.

[Defiant]

Is there any reason to expect any difference on the chart between N95 masks and KN95 masks?

IIUC, N95s can have a somewhat better fit/less leakage (in part because it uses headbands instead of earloops which IIUC KN95s use). There's also a big problem with counterfeit KN95s (not to say there's no fake n95s, but you can check niosh approval and you can get some straight from the company).

That said, I would think the difference between them is fairly small (assuming it's authentic and you have a good fit).

Also, I think some KN95s had (temporary?) approval by the CDC or FDA or whichever when PPEs were low - if I were given the preference, I would go for the ones that had had that approval.

[Alefroth]

I've been wearing the N100 elastomer respirator we talked about in another thread. The M/L feels a little small, but I'm still getting a good seal. It is quite comfortable to breathe in, and has the added bonus of not fogging up glasses. I don't get as many strange looks as I thought I would and even had it complimented by a Lowe's cashier =)

[Grifman]

How to commit career suicide in 30 seconds:

https://twitter.com/benwinslow/status/1 ... 70210?s=21

[Max Peck]

I've been wearing the N100 elastomer respirator we talked about in another thread. The M/L feels a little small, but I'm still getting a good seal. It is quite comfortable to breathe in, and has the added bonus of not fogging up glasses. I don't get as many strange looks as I thought I would and even had it complemented by a Lowe's cashier =)

Yeah, N95 is so 2021. P100 is where it's at, baby!

[El Guapo]

You'd think bigots could switch up their scapegoats every once in awhile. Always the Jews - c'mon, be a little creative.

[Max Peck]

How to commit career suicide in 30 seconds:

https://twitter.com/benwinslow/status/1 ... 70210?s=21

Or how to launch a career in politics, just as likely.

[Zarathud]

Chicago Mayor Lightfoot is rambling and shakily blaming teachers before the Union’s vote not to come in tomorrow. She wants to negotiate at the bargaining table and “is tired of it.” No plan, no empathy.

She knows they’re not coming in.

[Smoove_B]

I need to see the memo that was clearly circulated to various city and state leaders saying schools must be open at all costs.

[Archinerd]

Chicago Mayor Lightfoot is rambling and shakily blaming teachers before the Union’s vote not to come in tomorrow. She wants to negotiate at the bargaining table and “is tired of it.” No plan, no empathy.

She knows they’re not coming in.

It's astounding at how they manage to make this such a shit show. every. fucking. time.

[malchior]

I need to see the memo that was clearly circulated to various city and state leaders saying schools must be open at all costs.

It's mass delusion at this point. No one cares about anything. This is what a society in utter decline looks like while they try to figure out where the bottom is but somehow never gets there looks like.

[Zarathud]

The Teacher’s Union knows it has power. You have to box them in publicly, and don’t let them steamroll you.

Mayor Lightfoot looked weak. She’s a terrible negotiator used to having power and privilege behind her.

Her position is that the Union is being unilateral by not agreeing with her or sitting at the table. But she’s done a terrible job explaining that she has a plan — other than there are vaccines now that the Union isn’t helping them promote.

[Kraken]

I need to see the memo that was clearly circulated to various city and state leaders saying schools must be open at all costs.

In Mass., Baker is adamant that all districts must put in 180 days of classroom instruction this year. Those districts that are delaying their start now will have to make the days up in June.

I know there are many who believe that keeping the kids home is worse than exposing them to covid. For most children, little or no actual learning takes place remotely, and they're suffering from lack of socialization. Furthermore, remote learning is hardest on the least privileged households. IDK enough about kids to form an opinion about that; it sounds plausible to me. Baker is a lame duck who has the freedom to do what he believes is right, so maybe he believes that the needs of the many outweigh the health of the few.

I'm just glad I'm not a parent of school-aged kids. Well, I've always been glad of that, but now especially.

[Smoove_B]

I know there are many who believe that keeping the kids home is worse than exposing them to covid. For most children, little or no actual learning takes place remotely, and they're suffering from lack of socialization. Furthermore, remote learning is hardest on the least privileged households. IDK enough about kids to form an opinion about that; it sounds plausible to me. Baker is a lame duck who has the freedom to do what he believes is right, so maybe he believes that the needs of the many outweigh the health of the few.

All very true. But if you listen to what teachers in NYC (and elsewhere) are saying right now, it's total chaos in the schools that are trying to run a normal day. Between teacher and staff absences, it sounds a bit like Lord of the Flies in some situations - and that's not even counting the kids that are out as well.

Ideally kids should absolutely be in schools right now but we've collectively not made it safe for them or the teachers. We can't just ignore what's happening right now and demand school no matter what. Again, this was all predicted - waaaaay back over the summer. What did we do to make sure things would be better?

I 100% support teachers striking right now (however that looks), especially if their workplaces are not safe (i.e. no masking). My SIL teaches deep in the heart of Pennsyltucky and her local BOE removed mask mandates. She has Lupus and is teaching now with a mask on but the entire school is unmasked. If something happens to her I guarantee Smoove_B will be on the news.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's 10:30 PM and as far as I know, still no word from CTU on their "vote" to strike/walk out tomorrow. It's well known they're going to do it but gotta make everyone wait.

[El Guapo]

It's 10:30 PM and as far as I know, still no word from CTU on their "vote" to strike/walk out tomorrow. It's well known they're going to do it but gotta make everyone wait.

I gotta say...this sounds almost tailor made to alienate parents. Obviously understand the severe health risks that omicron is posing, so not saying that they're wrong to act, BUT not only is this going to create enormous problems for a lot of parents, but being all coy about whether it's actually going to happen or not until the last minute seems completely insane. At least if you give people notice, they can plan to adapt as best they can. On top of that, if they're really doing this tomorrow...like I have to think that a lot of parents aren't going to hear about it in time and will drop their kids off, which seems like a potential shit show.

Really the threat to strike should've been no later than last Monday, and the vote should've been before New Years. But then, it seems like no one in authority can plan ahead these days.

[Pyperkub]

If I double mask do I just add them together? J/K. I don't N95 but do a surgical w/ a cloth and my only indoor exposures are typically grocery store runs for 10 minutes (I was a speed shopper pre-pandemic anyway).

Yeah, upgrade your mask. Or consider getting a face shield which *might* offer additional protection from air flow. And with that, the issue isn't the filtration through the mask fabric, it's the air gaps present around the mask (surgical, fabric) where it meets your face. To be clear, filtration is helping but if you have wide gaps around your mouth and face, air is going to leak in that way every time you inhale - much easier to equalize pressure though those gaps than trying to come in through the fabric.

Yes N95 masks have better filtration media, but one of the big differences is how it fits against your face - namely the additional straps that keep it tight. If this was a virus being spread by larger droplets, I think the surgical and fabric masks would still be viable. But now that we know it's likely spread via airborne particulates, we need a true barrier against the air - which N95 (or equivalent) provides.

Give something like this a whirl. I've been using the Korean style BOTN brand successfully - so much depends on your face shape and comfort preferences. But still...upgrade your mask.

And start scoping out an N100 elastomer mask for whatever is coming next.

Is there any reason to expect any difference on the chart between N95 masks and KN95 masks?

No; they are functionally equivalent. The difficulty is in making sure you have a legit KN95 that is approved as such.

Yeah, my understanding is that the difference is just a different certification group. And maybe that kn95 was more likely to be counterfeit back in 2020.

[Defiant]

Still a problem:

Consumers who try to purchase N95 masks, mainly on Amazon, are often led to vendors selling fake or poorly made KN95s, a Chinese-made mask that is often marketed as an N95 equivalent despite the lack of testing by U.S. regulators to confirm virus-filtering claims.

In fact, KN95 masks offered on Amazon and through other retailers are being sold without authorization for use in health care settings from the Food and Drug Administration, which last July revoked its emergency use authorization for imported masks that lack approval from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention — a category that includes all KN95s from China.

They include brands like Boncare, which is produced by a company that has repeatedly failed federal testing standards; Yotu, whose manufacturer has also failed European Union testing; and ChiSip, an Amazon top seller whose manufacturer, Chengde Technology, was cited by the C.D.C. for falsely claiming approval by federal regulators.

All but a handful of the 50 best-selling KN95 masks on Amazon are plagued by similar problems, according to an analysis of sales data published by the marketing analytics firm Jungle Scout. Last month, companies that make or sell masks of dubious quality racked up almost $34 million in sales.

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/30/heal ... -fake.html

[Blackhawk]

And yet, there's nowhere else to get them. The only masks that are 'approved' and are good enough to wear can't be purchased, and if you can find them, they're too expensive to buy, and have to be thrown out after limited use and replaced with more masks you can't get.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's 10:30 PM and as far as I know, still no word from CTU on their "vote" to strike/walk out tomorrow. It's well known they're going to do it but gotta make everyone wait.

I gotta say...this sounds almost tailor made to alienate parents. Obviously understand the severe health risks that omicron is posing, so not saying that they're wrong to act, BUT not only is this going to create enormous problems for a lot of parents, but being all coy about whether it's actually going to happen or not until the last minute seems completely insane. At least if you give people notice, they can plan to adapt as best they can. On top of that, if they're really doing this tomorrow...like I have to think that a lot of parents aren't going to hear about it in time and will drop their kids off, which seems like a potential shit show.

Really the threat to strike should've been no later than last Monday, and the vote should've been before New Years. But then, it seems like no one in authority can plan ahead these days.

"Vote" results came through at 11:28 PM last night. Literally 11th hour. No in-person, no remote.

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Based on the nothing/nothing of 15 minutes, it seems very likely that that chart is based on alpha, no? And therefore wildly optimistic throughout?

Yeah, I think so. But I assume the patterns are the same, just with a lower time to exposure.

Fake K/N95 masks are a problem on Amazon. Fortunately, it's easy enough to check whether N95 masks are legit. I got these N95s which I confirmed are legit and fit well.

[Max Peck]

I've been using N95 masks for the last year, and I bought mine directly from a Canadian manufacturer. Apparently a lot of smaller companies cranked up PPE manufacturing in 2020, only for the most part to find out that they are locked out of government/institutional procurement contracts, so they're selling directly to retail. I have a lot more confidence in dealing with a domestic company that can be held accountable than trusting that some random Amazon marketplace seller is on the up and up. The ones I have aren't NIOSH-certified (apparently that's hard to get on short notice), but according to the manufacturer they have been tested by the NRC (National Research Council) to ensure they meet the same filtration requirements.

[Kurth]

Some good news: Omicron is milder.

The latest evidence about Covid is largely positive. A few weeks ago, many experts and journalists were warning that the initial evidence from South Africa — suggesting that Omicron was milder than other variants — might turn out to be a mirage. It has turned out to be real.

The bottom line

Given the combination of surging cases and milder disease, how should people respond?

Dr. Leana Wen, Baltimore’s former health commissioner, wrote a helpful Washington Post article in which she urged a middle path between reinstituting lockdowns and allowing Omicron to spread unchecked.

“It’s unreasonable to ask vaccinated people to refrain from pre-pandemic activities,” Wen said. “After all, the individual risk to them is low, and there is a steep price to keeping students out of school, shuttering restaurants and retail shops and stopping travel and commerce.”

But she urged people to get booster shots, recommended that they wear KN95 or N95 masks and encouraged governments and businesses to mandate vaccination. All of those measures can reduce the spread of Covid and, by extension, hospital crowding and death.

Different people will make different decisions, and that’s OK. Severely immunocompromised people — like those who have received organ transplants or are actively receiving cancer treatment — have reason to be extra cautious. For otherwise healthy older people, on the other hand, the latest data may be encouraging enough to affect their behavior.

Consider this: Before Omicron, a typical vaccinated 75-year-old who contracted Covid had a roughly similar risk of death — around 1 in 200 — as a typical 75-year-old who contracted the flu. (Here are the details behind that calculation, which is based on an academic study.)

Omicron has changed the calculation. Because it is milder than earlier versions of the virus, Covid now appears to present less threat to most vaccinated elderly people than the annual flu does.

The flu, of course, does present risk for the elderly. And the sheer size of the Omicron surge may argue for caution over the next few weeks. But the combination of vaccines and Omicron’s apparent mildness means that, for an individual, Covid increasingly resembles the kind of health risk that people accept every day.

[El Guapo]

It's 10:30 PM and as far as I know, still no word from CTU on their "vote" to strike/walk out tomorrow. It's well known they're going to do it but gotta make everyone wait.

I gotta say...this sounds almost tailor made to alienate parents. Obviously understand the severe health risks that omicron is posing, so not saying that they're wrong to act, BUT not only is this going to create enormous problems for a lot of parents, but being all coy about whether it's actually going to happen or not until the last minute seems completely insane. At least if you give people notice, they can plan to adapt as best they can. On top of that, if they're really doing this tomorrow...like I have to think that a lot of parents aren't going to hear about it in time and will drop their kids off, which seems like a potential shit show.

Really the threat to strike should've been no later than last Monday, and the vote should've been before New Years. But then, it seems like no one in authority can plan ahead these days.

"Vote" results came through at 11:28 PM last night. Literally 11th hour. No in-person, no remote.

Did the Union vote no-remote? Or is the no-remote at least partly the school administrators position as well?

In related news >1,000 Boston Public School teachers and staff have called in sick. I suspect some of that is "calling in to avoid getting sick" as opposed to currently sick, but at the same time given the facilities and conditions at some schools it's hard to see them managing the staff to stay open throughout January.

Definitely a shitty situation all around, though I find it hard to imagine that "come back to school for two days of exposure then suddenly shut everything down" was the best answer for anyone.

[Smoove_B]

Some good news: Omicron is milder.

A few caveats. First, Dr. Wen is...not a great person to listen to. She has a very mixed history as a public health professional and the piece she wrote the other day regarding teachers in NYC was offensive on many levels to the public health profession.

Second, saying it's more "mild" might be helpful on an individual level, but I fear the blasting of this type of message is going to continue to make things worse. Why? Because it will encourage people to engage in behaviors that increase transmission, and when you scale that out to a population level "mild illness" still has a meaningful impact on hospitals. It's terrific that people aren't dying at the same rate as they were in January of 2021 (or earlier). But our medical services are overwhelmed with "mild illnesses" right now.

So again, as a vaccinated and boosted person this is good news. As someone that doesn't want to contribute to community spread, it doesn't change my behavior.

[pr0ner]

And yet, there's nowhere else to get them. The only masks that are 'approved' and are good enough to wear can't be purchased, and if you can find them, they're too expensive to buy, and have to be thrown out after limited use and replaced with more masks you can't get.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Have you tried a hardware store like Lowes or Home Depot? I've seen them on store shelves in both, and Home Depot has them for sale online, too.

[Defiant]

And yet, there's nowhere else to get them. The only masks that are 'approved' and are good enough to wear can't be purchased, and if you can find them, they're too expensive to buy, and have to be thrown out after limited use and replaced with more masks you can't get.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

Here are a couple of places I've heard positive things about where you can get n95s for (depending on how many you're getting/with discount codes) under $1/per mask:

https://www.armbrustusa.com/
https://indianafacemask.com/

That said, it's always worth considering buying one/a few, and making sure you get a good fit with a particular n95 before buying bulk (and satisfying yourself that they're NIOSH-certified)

[Blackhawk]

Again, the price of the safe option is beyond reasonable reach. $40 for 20 masks time four people in the house - we're talking $160 for 20 uses, and even if we rewear them a couple of times to make sure we get the full 'useful life' out of them, that's still only four to six weeks worth, $100+/month. That's just not possible for us, or for a lot of people.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's 10:30 PM and as far as I know, still no word from CTU on their "vote" to strike/walk out tomorrow. It's well known they're going to do it but gotta make everyone wait.

I gotta say...this sounds almost tailor made to alienate parents. Obviously understand the severe health risks that omicron is posing, so not saying that they're wrong to act, BUT not only is this going to create enormous problems for a lot of parents, but being all coy about whether it's actually going to happen or not until the last minute seems completely insane. At least if you give people notice, they can plan to adapt as best they can. On top of that, if they're really doing this tomorrow...like I have to think that a lot of parents aren't going to hear about it in time and will drop their kids off, which seems like a potential shit show.

Really the threat to strike should've been no later than last Monday, and the vote should've been before New Years. But then, it seems like no one in authority can plan ahead these days.

"Vote" results came through at 11:28 PM last night. Literally 11th hour. No in-person, no remote.

Did the Union vote no-remote? Or is the no-remote at least partly the school administrators position as well?

I believe they voted not to show up in-person and CPS shut everything down.

Well, not everything, non-CTU union workers like principals are in and food service workers are in to prepare meals for kids who need them. I also believe many schools are open for kid drop off to some extent. But no education.

[Max Peck]

Again, the price of the safe option is beyond reasonable reach. $40 for 20 masks time four people in the house - we're talking $160 for 20 uses, and even if we rewear them a couple of times to make sure we get the full 'useful life' out of them, that's still only four to six weeks worth, $100+/month. That's just not possible for us, or for a lot of people.

Have you looked at reusable elastomeric respirators? The one I bought (GVS Elipse SPR644) is available on Amazon for $30, with replacement filters costing $20. According to the GVS website, a set of filters is good for about a month (of regular use, presumably) unless they get clogged up with dust sooner. It's not a lot less expensive, but there would be some savings and it works better than disposable masks.

[ImLawBoy]

It's 10:30 PM and as far as I know, still no word from CTU on their "vote" to strike/walk out tomorrow. It's well known they're going to do it but gotta make everyone wait.

I gotta say...this sounds almost tailor made to alienate parents. Obviously understand the severe health risks that omicron is posing, so not saying that they're wrong to act, BUT not only is this going to create enormous problems for a lot of parents, but being all coy about whether it's actually going to happen or not until the last minute seems completely insane. At least if you give people notice, they can plan to adapt as best they can. On top of that, if they're really doing this tomorrow...like I have to think that a lot of parents aren't going to hear about it in time and will drop their kids off, which seems like a potential shit show.

Really the threat to strike should've been no later than last Monday, and the vote should've been before New Years. But then, it seems like no one in authority can plan ahead these days.

"Vote" results came through at 11:28 PM last night. Literally 11th hour. No in-person, no remote.

Did the Union vote no-remote? Or is the no-remote at least partly the school administrators position as well?

I believe they voted not to show up in-person and CPS shut everything down.

Well, not everything, non-CTU union workers like principals are in and food service workers are in to prepare meals for kids who need them. I also believe many schools are open for kid drop off to some extent. But no education.

Yep. I think they technically voted to go remote and CPS said no. Even if CPS had agreed, though, there likely wouldn't have been schooling today. The current operating procedures are that if a classroom has to go remote due to a positive case, there would be no instruction the first day to allow the teachers time to prepare for remote. That's how it's worked for my kids when their classes transitioned to remote for different periods of time, and I assume they would have done that here.

I don't necessarily have a problem with switching to remote for a period, but I have the advantage of both parents being at home to help and a good internet connection. My biggest problem is with how all of this went down. It was unconscionable for the union to announce this at 11:30 pm. I have a feeling that this is going to cost them a fair amount of the public good will that they traditionally get in their disputes with City Hall.