Election integrity and the transfer of power

[stessier]

Trump and his crew getting down to some Laura Branigan while watching rioters storm the Capitol. As people died, as our institutions suffered breaches not seen since the 1800s, they were dancing and taking selfies.

That looks like the pre-game to his speech, not while they were marching.

[Jaymann]

The best is yet to come.

[LordMortis]

Trump and his crew getting down to some Laura Branigan while watching rioters storm the Capitol. As people died, as our institutions suffered breaches not seen since the 1800s, they were dancing and taking selfies.

https://twitter.com/i/status/1347211835242647552

That video alone should be enough to remove him TODAY!

[El Guapo]

A criminal trial, no. But this is an impeachment trial, which is a totally different animal. It's totally unclear what due process rights are for a president being impeached by Congress.

They are what we define in the Senate rules right now. That's the point - which is expanded on below.

To take an extreme example, suppose Trump were publicly saying that he's been in touch with the commander of the 13th airborne and he plans to march with them on Congress to seize the Capitol building, arrest congressional leaders, and proclaim himself Emperor. Would Congress be required to wait to schedule a trial before removing him from office?

From what I heard, unfortunately yes as the rules are written right now in the Senate. They'd need to change the rules in the Senate first. I guess if it was an extreme emergency they'd hand wave things through. Is this that moment? I dunno. But I heard clearly today that Conviction isn't realistic as the rules are right now in the time frame we have. They noted that the trial could be after he left to make sure he can't run again. We will see but it really sounded like conviction was highly, highly unlikely. To put it in context, the trial earlier this year was almost 3 weeks and they had alloted 7 days for witnesses which they didn't use. And there was a gap of a few weeks between articles of impeachment and the trial. This isn't the right mechanism for an emergency.

That's not quite the situation we have, but given that Trump just led a putsch, and given the very live fears about what he'll do next, it's not that far removed from where we are.

Right. That is why I mentioned earlier we have a potentially slow as molasses process and an expedited process that requires unreasonable turn-coating. We should think about something more streamlined...for next time.

It's all moot since I don't think we'll get to 67 votes to convict anyway, but if the votes are there then McConnell will just change the rules as needed.

In reality what I expect will happen, if the 25th amendment isn't invoked, then the House will vote to impeach and will send it over to the Senate. McConnell will start the wheels slowly turning, and will basically make clear to Trump's team (publicly or privately) that nothing's going to happen before the 20th unless Trump pulls some new bullshit and/or escalates.

And if Trump does...then McConnell (if he has the votes) would change the rules and make it happen.

[Defiant]

https://twitter.com/FBIWFO/status/1347221138104078345

I wonder how many people are contacting the FBI today and describing Trump?

[malchior]

It's all moot since I don't think we'll get to 67 votes to convict anyway, but if the votes are there then McConnell will just change the rules as needed.

In reality what I expect will happen, if the 25th amendment isn't invoked, then the House will vote to impeach and will send it over to the Senate. McConnell will start the wheels slowly turning, and will basically make clear to Trump's team (publicly or privately) that nothing's going to happen before the 20th unless Trump pulls some new bullshit and/or escalates.

And if Trump does...then McConnell (if he has the votes) would change the rules and make it happen.

I generally agree. Especially since there is exactly *1* GOP member in the House calling for the removal of Trump (Kinzinger). I imagine the list is short in the Senate too.

[YellowKing]

That looks like the pre-game to his speech, not while they were marching.

Yeah you may be right. Still.....I don't see how anybody looks at these smarmy bastards and thinks, "They definitely have my best interests at heart!"

[LordMortis]

That looks like the pre-game to his speech, not while they were marching.

Yeah you may be right. Still.....I don't see how anybody looks at these smarmy bastards and thinks, "They definitely have my best interests at heart!"

Then I have jumped the gun with TODAY. My general disdain still stands.

[Enough]

I have a feeling we're going to see a resignation within the next 48 to 72 hours.

Going to Camp David is an interesting development. I have doubts he will, but would definitely not be surprised at this point now that he's spent his wad as it were.

[hepcat]

Not only did that family of crooks and liars try to overthrow our government, they also got Branigan's Gloria stuck in my head.

[Unagi]

Ah, never mind

[El Guapo]

Ah, never mind

Looks like that was shortly before Trump addressed the rally, right?

Doesn't make it much better, but it's not singing and dancing during the actual rioting, at least.

[Max Peck]

If anyone was betting on the 25th coming into play, you probably want to prepare to pay up.

https://twitter.com/DaniellaMicaela/sta ... 0626066434

I'll admit, I'm impressed with the 25 minutes on hold. Who knew that Pence, or at least one of his staffers, was such a memester?

Edit: Because typos shall not stand...

[Jaymann]

Not only did that family of crooks and liars try to overthrow our government, they also got Branigan's Gloria stuck in my head.

Insurrection? Nothingburger. But headsong just cannot stand!

[malchior]

If anyone was betting on the 25th coming into play, you probably want to prepare to pay up.

https://twitter.com/DaniellaMicaela/sta ... 0626066434

I'll admit, I'm impressed with the 25 minutes on hold. Who knew that Pence, or at least one of his staffers, was such a memester?

Edit: Because typos shall not stand...

Doh. Guess we'll need to revise the comparison in the 'Profiles in courage!' entry for Pence from spineless lickspittle to semi-warty toadie.

[$iljanus]

I have a feeling we're going to see a resignation within the next 48 to 72 hours.

Going to Camp David is an interesting development. I have doubts he will, but would definitely not be surprised at this point now that he's spent his wad as it were.

Hmmm, Trump could have a come to Nixon moment and will work out something with Pence to have him pardoned for any liability for the riot. Or he’s doubling down on the sedition. Roll a d10 on the insanity table and see what shakes out these days.

[Unagi]

Ah, never mind

Looks like that was shortly before Trump addressed the rally, right?

Doesn't make it much better, but it's not singing and dancing during the actual rioting, at least.

Exactly.
Frankly, I’m sure they were just as bad while it went down.

[Blackhawk]

I'll be honest, while I'm certainly not going to object if they invoke the 25th amendment as to Trump... I think it's pretty clear that this is not what it was intended for. He's no more 'disabled' than he was at this time last year, or really at any point since January 20, 2017.

This is true. He was just as disabled back then. It was just not politically expedient for his party to do anything about it then.

[paulbaxter]

Do you think William Henry Harrison is looking on from the afterlife wondering if his spot in the record book is in jeopardy?

[malchior]

Do you think William Henry Harrison is looking on from the afterlife wondering if his spot in the record book is in jeopardy?

Ha. Maybe. I'm pretty sure Buchanan is high-fiving Harding right now though. That debate is over now.

[Skinypupy]

Not only did that family of crooks and liars try to overthrow our government, they also got Branigan's Gloria stuck in my head.

The greater sin, by far.

[gbasden]

Expected and yet still entirely appalling. I'm sure this asshole was fine with curbstomping some BLM protestors.

https://twitter.com/WBEZ/status/1347246 ... Tbige8ZL6o

[Kurth]

As much as I want to see Trump removed (via impeachment or the 25th, whatever is more feasible), I hate to see the Squad at the forefront here. Having AOC, Omar, Tlaib and Pressley leading the charge is not a good look for obvious reasons. Why can't the Dems get their fucking act together?

It's like the clown show never stops . . .

You mean the GOP clown show I'm sure. I don't see the squad urging insurrection do you? I don't see the squad trying to invalidate people's votes do you? I don't see the squad telling mobs how much they love them do you?

You really must see things that somehow I don't see? I wonder why? My main source of information is Pulitzer Prize winning journalism, what's yours?

It's optics. "The Squad" have been extremely reactionary to Trump. They've been calling for his head constantly, and they get an automatic defensive reaction from the Republicans and their voters, while the centrists tend to tune them out. Them calling for this now isn't all that meaningful. It's expected, and it's more likely to be ignored. It would be much more impactful - and potentially successful - if it came from elsewhere.

Exactly.

And, Lorini, glad you’re back but maybe hold your fire a bit. I’m not the opposition, here. We’re on the same side, and I’m guessing we’re getting our info from the same Pulitzer-winning sources.

[Lorini]

My apologies. We can always have rational discussion. I don't like the targeting of "The Squad" because it's pretty meaningless to me. I'd much rather hear and discuss exactly what they want to do that you don't want to have done.

[Enough]

I have been wondering about this, especially since one of the arrested only speaks Russian...

https://twitter.com/MacFarlaneNews/stat ... 0461483024

https://twitter.com/emptywheel/status/1 ... 1460087809

I wonder how many foreign spies used this as an opportunity to get a closer look?f And get ready for a gazillion conspiracy theories based on alleged documents spirited out of the Capitol by folks that claimed to have been there and now have proof of some insane q anon thing.

[coopasonic]

As much as I want to see Trump removed (via impeachment or the 25th, whatever is more feasible), I hate to see the Squad at the forefront here. Having AOC, Omar, Tlaib and Pressley leading the charge is not a good look for obvious reasons. Why can't the Dems get their fucking act together?

It's like the clown show never stops . . .

You mean the GOP clown show I'm sure. I don't see the squad urging insurrection do you? I don't see the squad trying to invalidate people's votes do you? I don't see the squad telling mobs how much they love them do you?

You really must see things that somehow I don't see? I wonder why? My main source of information is Pulitzer Prize winning journalism, what's yours?

It's optics. "The Squad" have been extremely reactionary to Trump. They've been calling for his head constantly, and they get an automatic defensive reaction from the Republicans and their voters, while the centrists tend to tune them out. Them calling for this now isn't all that meaningful. It's expected, and it's more likely to be ignored. It would be much more impactful - and potentially successful - if it came from elsewhere.

Exactly.

And, Lorini, glad you’re back but maybe hold your fire a bit. I’m not the opposition, here. We’re on the same side, and I’m guessing we’re getting our info from the same Pulitzer-winning sources.

The callout to me was the "for obvious reasons." I don't twitter and get most of my news from here so not the most informed, but the reasons were not obvious to me, though Blackhawk's post makes sense. Important to note that The Squad wasn't necessarily WRONG in the constant calls for his head and then dismissing them out of hand, particularly as they are all women of color (appropriate term?), might be seen in a less than generous light.

[Blackhawk]

My apologies. We can always have rational discussion. I don't like the targeting of "The Squad" because it's pretty meaningless to me. I'd much rather hear and discuss exactly what they want to do that you don't want to have done.

In this instance, what they want to do is exactly what I want to have done. They, however, are the wrong people to be leading the charge. It's like the hippies who protested every single issue so much that people tuned them out. When something was wrong and the hippies showed up to protest, nobody paid attention. That's just what hippies did. But when the business leaders showed up, people listened.

Whether the rest of The Squad's positions are good or bad is neither here nor there. As another example, Pelosi. She's been demonized to the point that, while she has to lead, she isn't the right person to spearhead this. Find a long-serving Representative that the Republicans actually respect and will listen to, even if they usually disagree with their goals. That's the person who needs to be the face of something like this, someone who when they stand up, everyone stops and says, "If they're speaking for this, you know it's real."

Politics is theater and PR. It's part of why I despise politics. But regardless of how much I like it, it's how they need to act to be effective.

[Lorini]

The current GOP cannot and will not listen to any Democrats. Democrats have been demonized beyond recognition. In my opinion, the Speaker needs to be someone with the experience to lead in these perilous times. She has a ton of experience and that's good enough for me. Maybe there's someone else better but they sure didn't make their name known.

[Blackhawk]

I didn't say she shouldn't lead. She's still going to be the one with the gavel. I'm talking about the face of the movement, the person who is out in public, in front, calling for this to happen, making the speeches.

[Zaxxon]

What Blackhawk said (invocation #3,214 or so, I think). The Squad isn't the issue, or at least their substance is not. It's all perception, and people suck. Therefore the process is weaker if it largely starts with them. Even though it shouldn't be.

[Lorini]

I didn't say she shouldn't lead. She's still going to be the one with the gavel. I'm talking about the face of the movement, the person who is out in public, in front, calling for this to happen, making the speeches.

My understanding today is bad I guess. Isn't that basically Sanders though? Even though not all of us agree with all he has to say?

[Ralph-Wiggum]

If the House votes to impeach, Susan Collins will vote to acquit because Trump has learned his lesson this time for sure.

[Smoove_B]

So the sun sets on 1/7 and Trump is still in the Oval Office? Absolutely disgraceful.

[Blackhawk]

I didn't say she shouldn't lead. She's still going to be the one with the gavel. I'm talking about the face of the movement, the person who is out in public, in front, calling for this to happen, making the speeches.

My understanding today is bad I guess. Isn't that basically Sanders though? Even though not all of us agree with all he has to say?

I have no idea who it is. I'm not that politically sophisticated, and the names still tend to blur together for me. I'm honestly terrible at keeping track of who's who, in person, on TV, or in politics. (It probably has to do with my face blindness, but that's just a guess.) But there have to be a few Representatives who have some degree of respect from their colleagues across the aisle who is capable of making a good speech.

[Blackhawk]

So the sun sets on 1/7 and Trump is still in the Oval Office? Absolutely disgraceful.

They've got 41 minutes!

[Grifman]

I have a feeling we're going to see a resignation within the next 48 to 72 hours.

Going to Camp David is an interesting development. I have doubts he will, but would definitely not be surprised at this point now that he's spent his wad as it were.

He never goes to Camp David. He doesn't want to go out in public - I suspect he'll make no further public appearances the rest of his term of office. And with FB and twitter shutting him down, he's going to be largely mute.

[Jaymann]

I have a feeling we're going to see a resignation within the next 48 to 72 hours.

Going to Camp David is an interesting development. I have doubts he will, but would definitely not be surprised at this point now that he's spent his wad as it were.

He never goes to Camp David. He doesn't want to go out in public - I suspect he'll make no further public appearances the rest of his term of office. And with FB and twitter shutting him down, he's going to be largely mute.

Does Camp David have a golf course?

[Grifman]

This is a video of the young woman that was shot and killed yesterday. She has truly drunk the koolaid - she was a QANON supporter, and it is sad that she died for her orange god:

https://twitter.com/RexChapman/status/1 ... 66661?s=20

I am just very sad that she threw away her life for such a despicable man. But choices have consequences.

[Jaymann]

I have a feeling we're going to see a resignation within the next 48 to 72 hours.

Going to Camp David is an interesting development. I have doubts he will, but would definitely not be surprised at this point now that he's spent his wad as it were.

He never goes to Camp David. He doesn't want to go out in public - I suspect he'll make no further public appearances the rest of his term of office. And with FB and twitter shutting him down, he's going to be largely mute.

Does Camp David have a golf course?

Camp David received its present name in 1953 from Dwight D. Eisenhower, in honor of his father, and grandson, both named David. Eisenhower had the practice golf facility built at Camp David. To be able to play his favorite sport, President Eisenhower had golf course architect Robert Trent Jones design a practice golf facility at Camp David. Around 1954, Jones built one golf hole – a par 3 – with four different tees; Eisenhower added a 250-yard (228.6 m) driving range near the helicopter landing zone.

Issy slow on the uptake.

[Grifman]

Warning, here's another video of the shooting from another closer angle:

https://twitter.com/taylormiller55/stat ... 33792?s=20

I've read that the office was pleading with her to stop and not come through the window. A Republican lawmaker witnessed the shooting and said that the office "had no choice".

Rep. Markwayne Mullin, a Republican from Oklahoma, detailed for ABC how he witnessed the moment Babbitt was fatally shot while sheltering inside the House Chamber.

'They were trying to come through the front door, which is where I was at in the chamber, and in the back they were trying to come through the speaker's lobby, and that's problematic when you're trying to defend two fronts,' he said on Good Morning America.

'When they broke the glass in the back, the [police] lieutenant that was there, him and I already had multiple conversations prior to this, and he didn't have a choice at that time.

'The mob was going to come through the door, there was a lot of members and staff that were in danger at the time. And when he [drew] his weapon, that's a decision that's very hard for anyone to make and, once you draw your weapon like that, you have to defend yourself with deadly force.'

Mullin added that he believed the police 'showed a lot of restraint' and 'did the best they could', considering the circumstances.

'That young lady's family's lives changed and his [the officer's] life also changed,' Mullin continued. 'But what also happened is that mob that was trying to go through that door, they left. And his actions will may be judged in a lot of different ways moving forward, but his actions I believe saved people's lives even more. Unfortunately, it did take one though.'