Octopus Overlords

Yay. Cicadas. I'm dead center in brood X's range. They're loud enough in normal years, but when one of the huge hatchings happens it drowns out the TV if the windows are open.

We have cicadas but the worst insect for noise is the katydids. There are probably millions on our mountain alone. At night you cannot hold a conversation with someone when you're outside.

Katy was framed.

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:20 am Katy was framed.

No, that was her sons.

The good news is that we have three fewer giant trees surrounding the house than we did 17 years ago, all victims of wind. That should cut the local noise down a little.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:24 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:20 am Katy was framed.

No, that was her sons.

I hear there were four of them.

I always thought that katydid was a regional alternate name for cicada, but now I know that they're different. This is important information to be learning at 49.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:30 am I always thought that katydid was a regional alternate name for cicada, but now I know that they're different. This is important information to be learning at 49.

I thought that my entire life until a few years ago.

I will always associate katydids as these....



I told my little sister they were chocolate covered cicadas and have them all to myself.

Jaymann wrote:Electric Tiller for $96.

OR, .96/lb tomatoes.

Stewart Brand (founder of the Whole Earth Catalogue, the WELL, the Long Now Foundation, etc) is moving ahead with his project of bringing back the Woolly Mammoth.

Has he asked "Should we?"

They have a few similar projects in the works, but the Mammoth is the attention-getter. They're going to try to bring back the Passenger Pigeon, for example.

As for whether we should, I'm not sure why we shouldn't. It isn't Jurassic Park, after all, and both the Mammoth and the Passenger Pigeon went extinct as a result of human activity. The science yield of such projects would also be good.

I killed about twenty woolly mammoths and giants yesterday.

Can the Dodo Bird be far behind?

Unless the plan is to set them loose in Central Park, resurrecting wooly mammoths I don't have a problem with. Human cloning on the other hand, let's tread carefully.

I think the baseline ethical responsibility is that we become responsible for the welfare of cloned species until some future time when they are viable and well-provided for by the natural environment. The mammoth project talks about cultivating and maintaining a huge preserve that matches the mammoth's original habitat as closely as possible.

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:25 pm They have a few similar projects in the works, but the Mammoth is the attention-getter. They're going to try to bring back the Passenger Pigeon, for example.

As for whether we should, I'm not sure why we shouldn't. It isn't Jurassic Park, after all, and both the Mammoth and the Passenger Pigeon went extinct as a result of human activity.

After which the ecosystems have been rearranging themselves around the new normal for 4,000 years. Reintroducing long extinct species could have impacts comparable to introducing invasive species. What species have expanded to fill those species' niches? What happens to those species when the extinct creatures are reintroduced? What happens to predators who have either adapted to hunt the new species that is now forced out, or if the predators capable of controlling the extinct species' populations are extinct themselves? Do we reintroduce saber-toothed cats to the northern wild, too?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:38 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:25 pm They have a few similar projects in the works, but the Mammoth is the attention-getter. They're going to try to bring back the Passenger Pigeon, for example.

As for whether we should, I'm not sure why we shouldn't. It isn't Jurassic Park, after all, and both the Mammoth and the Passenger Pigeon went extinct as a result of human activity.

After which the ecosystems have been rearranging themselves around the new normal for 4,000 years. Reintroducing long extinct species could have impacts comparable to introducing invasive species. What species have expanded to fill those species' niches? What happens to those species when the extinct creatures are reintroduced? What happens to predators who have either adapted to hunt the new species that is now forced out, or if the predators capable of controlling the extinct species' populations are extinct themselves? Do we reintroduce saber-toothed cats to the northern wild, too?

When we brought the bison back from the edge of extinction, we didn't breed more wolves and grizzlies to compensate. In the case of mammoths, we'd need to protect them the way we protect any highly endangered species.

As for passenger pigeons, they've only been extinct for a century. We probably could just release them in Central Park with no ill effects.

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:25 pm They have a few similar projects in the works, but the Mammoth is the attention-getter. They're going to try to bring back the Passenger Pigeon, for example.

As for whether we should, I'm not sure why we shouldn't. It isn't Jurassic Park, after all, and both the Mammoth and the Passenger Pigeon went extinct as a result of human activity. The science yield of such projects would also be good.

Im thinking more along the lines of diseases. new ones old ones mutated ones.

I cant believe this as its just mid March but my yard could use a mow. I think its usually a late April early May start but not this year. I went out to look today after we got a 5" rain yesterday...it must have sprouted 2"s. Im not ready for this at all.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:30 am I always thought that katydid was a regional alternate name for cicada, but now I know that they're different. This is important information to be learning at 49.

I've never heard of people calling cicadas Katydids. Huh. I learned something too.

People actually called cicadas "locusts" - which they are not either - Locusts are a type of short-horned (short antennae) grasshoppers. Katydids are a totally different group, but closely related to grasshoppers.

I also have a problem with everyone calling everything a "bug"

But they are all bugs!

A nonny mouse wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:32 pm I also have a problem with everyone calling everything a "bug"

+1

Another peeve is "seagulls".

A nonny mouse wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:32 pm

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 9:30 am I always thought that katydid was a regional alternate name for cicada, but now I know that they're different. This is important information to be learning at 49.

I've never heard of people calling cicadas Katydids. Huh. I learned something too.

People actually called cicadas "locusts" - which they are not either - Locusts are a type of short-horned (short antennae) grasshoppers. Katydids are a totally different group, but closely related to grasshoppers.

I also have a problem with everyone calling everything a "bug"

or every illness the 'flu'

or every soda a 'Coke'

TheMix wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:38 pm

A nonny mouse wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:32 pm I also have a problem with everyone calling everything a "bug"

+1

Another peeve is "seagulls".

Jonathan Livingston would like a word with you.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:30 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:25 pm They have a few similar projects in the works, but the Mammoth is the attention-getter. They're going to try to bring back the Passenger Pigeon, for example.

As for whether we should, I'm not sure why we shouldn't. It isn't Jurassic Park, after all, and both the Mammoth and the Passenger Pigeon went extinct as a result of human activity. The science yield of such projects would also be good.

Im thinking more along the lines of diseases. new ones old ones mutated ones.

I don't think cloning brings that risk. You're not unfreezing an ancient mammoth from a glacier but growing a new one from an embryo.

The real danger is that they would be susceptible to all of our world's diseases, not vice-versa.

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:43 pm
As for passenger pigeons, they've only been extinct for a century. We probably could just release them in Central Park with no ill effects.

I'd generally agree, which is why I specified, "long extinct species" in my comment.

Oops..I mistook Cheetos Cheddar Popcorn as Chesters Cheese Puffcorn. Where the latter is awesome and tasty and soft and full sized...the former is tasty yes but also small kernels and tough with a lot of hulls in it. Its like bad cheap popcorn covered in cheese powder. Ill not make that mistake again.

GOOD


BAD

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 3:59 pm

Daehawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 1:30 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:25 pm They have a few similar projects in the works, but the Mammoth is the attention-getter. They're going to try to bring back the Passenger Pigeon, for example.

As for whether we should, I'm not sure why we shouldn't. It isn't Jurassic Park, after all, and both the Mammoth and the Passenger Pigeon went extinct as a result of human activity. The science yield of such projects would also be good.

Im thinking more along the lines of diseases. new ones old ones mutated ones.

I don't think cloning brings that risk. You're not unfreezing an ancient mammoth from a glacier but growing a new one from an embryo.

The real danger is that they would be susceptible to all of our world's diseases, not vice-versa.

It will be an elephant-mammoth hybrid, anyway. Unless they can reconstruct an entire mammoth genome, they're going to have to do a lot of filling-in. Odds are they'll use an elephant surrogate mother as well, rather than try to grow a test-tube mammoth. At best, they're likely to get a reasonable facsimile.

Elephant-mammoth hybrid?? Great! What if as some kind of unintended consequence, they get really big, or really strong? They could trample the tundra!

At least they're all packed and ready to go.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:08 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:43 pm
As for passenger pigeons, they've only been extinct for a century. We probably could just release them in Central Park with no ill effects.

I'd generally agree, which is why I specified, "long extinct species" in my comment.

I did see that!

I'm mainly interested in the Mammoth possibility because I love what we would learn and I assume that we could figure out how to care for and support them. I certainly wouldn't endorse bringing back every extinct species we can think of.

The good thing about Mammoths is that it's really unlikely that they could ever reach "invasive" status. Assuming they're like elephants, they'll take 18-22 months to gestate a single calf, so the population will never grow rapidly without our noticing.

Maybe we could train them to stomp cane toads?

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:47 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:08 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:43 pm
As for passenger pigeons, they've only been extinct for a century. We probably could just release them in Central Park with no ill effects.

I'd generally agree, which is why I specified, "long extinct species" in my comment.

I did see that!

I'm mainly interested in the Mammoth possibility because I love what we would learn and I assume that we could figure out how to care for and support them. I certainly wouldn't endorse bringing back every extinct species we can think of.

The good thing about Mammoths is that it's really unlikely that they could ever reach "invasive" status. Assuming they're like elephants, they'll take 18-22 months to gestate a single calf, so the population will never grow rapidly without our noticing.

Maybe we could train them to stomp cane toads?

Yes, but you're overlooking the pivotal question: just how good does mammoth steak taste?

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:21 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 5:47 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 4:08 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 12:43 pm
As for passenger pigeons, they've only been extinct for a century. We probably could just release them in Central Park with no ill effects.

I'd generally agree, which is why I specified, "long extinct species" in my comment.

I did see that!

I'm mainly interested in the Mammoth possibility because I love what we would learn and I assume that we could figure out how to care for and support them. I certainly wouldn't endorse bringing back every extinct species we can think of.

The good thing about Mammoths is that it's really unlikely that they could ever reach "invasive" status. Assuming they're like elephants, they'll take 18-22 months to gestate a single calf, so the population will never grow rapidly without our noticing.

Maybe we could train them to stomp cane toads?

Yes, but you're overlooking the pivotal question: just how good does mammoth steak taste?

It depends. How long are your sabre teeth?

Holman wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:26 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:21 pm Yes, but you're overlooking the pivotal question: just how good does mammoth steak taste?

It depends. How long are your sabre teeth?

Well, our ancestors certainly seemed to enjoy eating 'em sans sabre teeth. So, woolly mammoth steak would make for a significantly more authentic Paleolithic diet than currently available 'Caveman Diets'. And realistically, if woolly mammoths turn out to be exquisitely delicious, it would almost certainly guarantee their future going forward considering the omnipresence of beef cattle.

I'm not entirely against the idea, but I do think there are some major issues that haven't been addressed. I'd be very hesitant about releasing them into the wild and it's potential impact on the ecosystem. I don't like the idea of animals bred into captivity, either. Something in between, like a fenced preserve? Maybe, but we'd have to track each and every animal and have contingencies in place for escape. And then there are issues like ownership - are they wild animals, or owned? By their creators? The nation they're released into? Sponsors? Are we ready to settle issues of copyrighting living things? What about commercial exploitation? And then there are other issues, like how are mammoths raised to be mammoths if not by other mammoths? We're creating orphans, after all, and nobody is entirely sure how mammoths are raised. For context, elephants stay with their parents for ~16 years learning to be elephants, how to swim, how to find food, how to avoid dangers, etc.

And that's just scratching the surface. We're protesting masks, storming capitols, electing lunatics throughout the world, starting wars, and committing atrocities while profiting on human life while others starve. I don't think we're ready to be The Creator quite yet.

Yes, but you're overlooking the pivotal question: just how good does mammoth steak taste?

Ask one of these folk if any are around.

The Time 250,000-Year-Old Mammoth Was Served For Dinner

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu Mar 18, 2021 6:58 pm I'm not entirely against the idea, but I do think there are some major issues that haven't been addressed. I'd be very hesitant about releasing them into the wild and it's potential impact on the ecosystem. I don't like the idea of animals bred into captivity, either. Something in between, like a fenced preserve? Maybe, but we'd have to track each and every animal and have contingencies in place for escape. And then there are issues like ownership - are they wild animals, or owned? By their creators? The nation they're released into? Sponsors? Are we ready to settle issues of copyrighting living things? What about commercial exploitation? And then there are other issues, like how are mammoths raised to be mammoths if not by other mammoths? We're creating orphans, after all, and nobody is entirely sure how mammoths are raised. For context, elephants stay with their parents for ~16 years learning to be elephants, how to swim, how to find food, how to avoid dangers, etc.

And that's just scratching the surface. We're protesting masks, storming capitols, electing lunatics throughout the world, starting wars, and committing atrocities while profiting on human life while others starve.

Good points all.

I think the Stewart Brand project involves a carefully managed preserve maintained by the Long Now Foundation but under Canadian oversight. I would guess that the baby mammoths will be raised to be hairy elephants, although studying how mammoth instincts and innate behavior differ will be part of the science.

Obviously we have bigger problems than the absence of mammoths in our ecosystem. But this kind of science is aimed at increasing our investment in advanced ecological stewardship, and I believe that the future of humanity depends way more on that orientation than on sending a few scientists to live in a hole on Mars.

I don't think we're ready to be The Creator quite yet.

We've been The Creator since somewhere before the Industrial Revolution, and so far we're doing a botch job of it. My interest in this kind of project is that it asks us to confront the responsibility directly.

I'm attending a wedding on Zoom this weekend.

The couple has stated that this will be a casual low-key affair with no emphasis on ceremony. They're about 50, but I believe this is the first marriage for both. The groom seems like a great guy, but though they've been together for about five years we've never met him, as they're on the opposite coast. We've been friends with the bride for 25 years.

I intend to put on a jacket and a loose tie. I suppose I should wear pants because there might be dancing?