Octopus Overlords

msduncan wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 11:56 am Just read a letter from a graduating senior on the interwebs and she made me realize something:

This graduating class was born in the shadow of 9/11 and graduated HS amidst a global pandemic. (paraphrased)

I've been seeing tweets and whatnot from more and more young people noting that, for a supposedly pampered and wimpy generation, they've already weathered multiple recessions, non stop war, a mega terrorist attack, climate change, and a worldwide shutdown among other things. And I thought not having cable when I was younger was hard living.

And I will be watching the NFL draft. I'm a football fan, but really I'll be watching cause I could use a sports fix and watching athletes play videogames isn't cutting it.

I don't buy into the pampered and wimpy stereotype, but nor do I feel that they've really "suffered" through any of those things. I was born poor - we didn't need a recession to not have money. 9/11 likely did not affect them directly. Climate change ditto. This shutdown is probably the "hardest" thing they've lived through, and most of them are sitting at home binge-ing Netflix like I am.

Every generation lives through their share of suck, but I don't think there's any doubt that each progressive generation lives through fairly less severe versions of it. My granddad served in WW2 which is way up there on the scale of "shit you don't want to live through." My mom lived through the 1960s - Vietnam, assassinations, the Cuban missile crisis, and dodged rocks during race riots. Not as bad as a world war, but still pretty tough. By comparison, the biggest thing I had to deal with was maybe the Betamax vs VHS war. My kids have it even easier.

It's a little premature to say that anyone has weathered climate change.

This year is the worst "trauma" I've seen since I left the service in '75. Not a good time of life right now.

Also, the "non stop war" has been a non-stop foreign war in an area that most Americans couldn't even locate on a map that rarely ever gets reported upon by US media. So it's hardly as if most Gen-Z Americans had to grow up on the front lines of non-stop conflict.

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 1:18 pm Also, the "non stop war" has been a non-stop foreign war in an area that most Americans couldn't even locate on a map that rarely ever gets reported upon by US media. So as it's hardly as if most Gen-Z Americans had to grow up on the front lines of non-stop conflict.

With all-volunteer "professional" armed forces.

YellowKing wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 12:57 pm I don't buy into the pampered and wimpy stereotype, but nor do I feel that they've really "suffered" through any of those things. I was born poor - we didn't need a recession to not have money. 9/11 likely did not affect them directly. Climate change ditto. This shutdown is probably the "hardest" thing they've lived through, and most of them are sitting at home binge-ing Netflix like I am.

I was having the same thoughts earlier. People who are complaining that having to find substitutes for their favorite foods and not being able to go the pool are hardships have not had hardships. For the vast majority not directly affected by the virus this has been a catastrophe of inconvenience.

That's not to say that they're not having a hard time. Unpleasant experiences are unpleasant, and saying that urban poor suffered more in 1350 doesn't mean people didn't suffer during the Great Depression, despite it being far less severe than what their forebears had been through. Fear about the disease, fear about losing relatives, fear about losing income, those things are real. Still, it has to be kept in perspective, and not getting to go to the movies or eat out for a few months is pretty insignificant compared to not being able eat for days at a time.

And yeah, my son graduates this year. He was born less than a week after 9/11, and he'll miss his graduation this year. We just picked up his cap and gown, and he has nowhere to wear them. And for the kids who worked their butts off to plan and fund the prom this year are really hurting. But 9/11 had zero personal impact on him. He didn't even know what it was until four or five years after the fact, and wasn't equipped to comprehend the event for probably a decade or more after it. Endless wars were blurbs on the newspaper. Climate change is something that he's never lived without, so he doesn't see the change yet. Recessions had only a peripheral effect that he wasn't even aware of (what seven-year-old is that in tune with the family finances?) The Trump Presidency, on the other hand, has stressed him out quite a bit. It has had an actual impact on him, as he's old enough to actually be aware of what's happening. What has happened in the past five years and what will happen in the next five are what will have an impact on his life and identity, not something that was going on when he was an infant.

I've been debating which thread to put this in, here or the 'Whatcha Stocking?" thread. I just got back from the store. Some things were in stock, some were not. The usual.

What stood out were the people. I've been shopping at the same Wal-Mart once a week for the past four or five weeks since the shutdowns went into effect. This week stood out. Something was different.

Week 1 - the place was packed. Families everywhere. I didn't see a single mask.

Week 2 - The place was busy, not as busy. I saw a couple of people wearing masks.

Week 3 - The WHO had put out the mask recommendation. Wal-Mart had begun limiting children and recommended not shopping in groups. I'd say maybe 50% of the people I saw, across the board, were wearing masks. No children to be seen. Small groups. Wal-Mart had put up sneeze guards for cashiers, and people kept their distance from each other.

Week 4 - As above. No kids. People shopping individually, staying distant. Probably 75% with masks.

Week 5 - Today. Wal-Mart has made masks mandatory for employees. And yet one had no mask. Two had them around their necks. Several wore them over their mouths but under their noses. I saw several full families shopping, including kids. These were multi-parent families, not single moms who were a legitimate exception. People stood shoulder to shoulder. And masks among the shoppers? Maybe 1/3 had masks, half of what there was a week ago. And if you singled out white males under 60? 10%, tops. Even if they were with families where every member had a mask, they didn't. And its worth noting that this is the rural Midwest, and a massive portion of that demographic around here are Fox-loving Trump supporters. And they've stopped trying. Either it is fatigue, or laziness, or they've been listening to the propaganda and are blatantly refusing out of some form of 'social protest.'

Whatever the cause, or if it is just a fluke of coincidence, this was an extremely frustrating trip. It was maddening how many self-righteous, uneducated, and utterly uncaring people are flagrantly derailing everything that has been accomplished, and are putting everyone else at risk just to prove to everyone how big their Trump-tattooed dicks are.

I read a story today that Walmart was going to start sealing off "non-essential" departments, like furniture and arts and crafts. Furniture, sure, but I ventured into the arts and crafts aisles at Meijer yesterday looking for things the kids can do and the shelves were pretty thoroughly pillaged. I wanted to get them watercolors, I did not want to get them a $25 set of watercolors obviously intended for more accomplished artists than my 3 and 6 year olds. I wouldn't consider such things non-essential as keeping kids engaged in something is an endless drain on physical and psychological resources. I guess if you're not going to bother stocking such things though...

Jeff V wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:10 pm I read a story today that Walmart was going to start sealing off "non-essential" departments, like furniture and arts and crafts. Furniture, sure, but I ventured into the arts and crafts aisles at Meijer yesterday looking for things the kids can do and the shelves were pretty thoroughly pillaged.

Arts & crafts is also where they stock sewing supplies, which are arguably essential, especially given the need for homemade masks right now.

By way of contrast, I did my grocery shopping this morning in urban, blue Chicago. Most employees (but not all) were wearing masks. I'd say 75% of shoppers were wearing masks. There was quite a bit of bad mask hygiene (over mouth but under nose, frequent touching of mask, one old man holding a handkerchief in front of his nose), but overall it was good. Store was not crowded, but this was about 10:00 am on a Monday morning and I chose the time because I think it's less crowded. People are doing a good job of waiting for others to go by, not reaching in front of others, and generally staying away from each other. I only saw one kid - a mother with her toddler (neither were wearing masks).

Lots of TP and paper towels in stock. Out of tofu, oddly enough.

ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:15 pm By way of contrast, I did my grocery shopping this morning in urban, blue Chicago. Most employees (but not all) were wearing masks. I'd say 75% of shoppers were wearing masks. There was quite a bit of bad mask hygiene (over mouth but under nose, frequent touching of mask, one old man holding a handkerchief in front of his nose), but overall it was good. Store was not crowded, but this was about 10:00 am on a Monday morning and I chose the time because I think it's less crowded. People are doing a good job of waiting for others to go by, not reaching in front of others, and generally staying away from each other. I only saw one kid - a mother with her toddler (neither were wearing masks).

Lots of TP and paper towels in stock. Out of tofu, oddly enough.

Yeah, mask saturation is probably as high as it's going to get. Seeing 75-80% too. Stores have floor decals or masking tape near all checkouts to keep people distanced. The larger grocery stores have one-way aisles. If any of this helps they're doing a lot of good.

I just hope the one-way aisles go away eventually. Going to be great to control traffic flow and thus force customers to see more of the product (INCREASE SALES!!!) but it is a pain in the ass for a quick grab-5-things type of trip.

Just as a counterpoint to the “this isn’t that bad” line of thinking. You are focusing on the wrong things. They aren’t being asked to sit home and watch Netflix and complaining about it.

I understand that they aren’t in physical danger like being drafted into WW2 or Vietnam. And in no way do I think they have to deal with anything like that, and I’m glad for them in that regard.

My son is a freshman in college. He is struggling to transition to an environment where he suddenly had to teach himself Calculus, Computer Architecture, European History, etc. Yes, he isn’t being shot at. But his stress level is through the roof trying to adapt to this situation, and it’s not going well.

My daughter is a junior in high school, and this instant lack of real interaction with any friends, and having to deal with suddenly everyone effectively being homeschooled, she’s starting to struggle with depression and anxiety.

Their complaints have nothing to do with having to watch Netflix. Neither of my kids are introverted, and this last month of enforced isolation has had real, negative effects on them. They have some extra stress too because their grandmother is in a NJ long term care facility - and that is not the goddamn place to be in NJ right now. They’ve been unable to visit her since February (they are very close as my in-laws lived with us for years when the kids were little). Shit adds up man.

They don’t get to claim 9/11 as part of their struggle though. My son was three months old. He didn’t experience anything from it.

Because my wife has the most exposure due to having to go into work on occasion, we've designated her the one point of contact with the public. It's weird to think I haven't been in a store (or any type of public place, for that matter) in over a month now.

Based on some of her stories, though, I have no desire to go anywhere. She said it's eerie/sad/frustrating all at the same time.

ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:15 pm Out of tofu, oddly enough.

I was at the Naperville H-Mart yesterday and they had enough tofu in stock to supply the Chicago area several times over I think.

the lack of in-person socialization is certainly a real killer, but bluntly (and possibly harshly... i may not be very charitable right now), it's become striking to me how unimaginative a lot of people's lives are. if they can't go 'out' they start doing weird stuff - and this is two examples i heard just today - like driving two hours to see a beach sunset ... then drive straight back home. drive several hours to a distant tourist town... get takeout... then drive straight back home. it's shadows-of-themselves vacations - trying to do the same things as before, but with all-the-stuff-you-can't-do taken out and nothing added back in. people aren't really equipped or prepared to seriously deal with their own selves in isolation time.

OTOH, I'm old enough to remember when Sunday drives were something families did. At least, mine did. Just today, I suggested to Wife that when we get a really nice spring day we drive out into the country with the top down and take a picnic lunch. The Miata's a pleasure to drive, gas is cheap, and there's no traffic, so why not?

CNN

Contamination in manufacturing the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention test for the coronavirus caused weeks of delays that slowed the US response to the pandemic, multiple health officials have told CNN, a problem that stemmed in part from the CDC not adhering to its own protocols, according to a US Food and Drug Administration spokesperson.
...
The government has never fully explained what stalled the rollout of a crucial test needed to begin measuring the extent of the spread of Covid-19. It would take until the end of February to correct and the US continues to lack extensive testing capability even as some states prepare ease up on restriction and reopen to a degree.

Went grocery shopping today. I've been going every two weeks to try and cut down on how often I have to leave the house. And this week I convinced my parents to let me do the shopping for them at the same time. So I was at two stores for a couple of hours today.

I did notice more people not wearing masks. And the majority of those were people in their 50s and up. And they also refused to follow any type of social distancing rules. Multiple times people would walk and stand right next to me, and every single time it was an old person without a mask on. These people also refused to obey the one way aisles. Which I fully expected. They usually can't follow the one way rows in the parking lot. I can't expect them to be any better in the store.

On the positive side, I used the Publix app for the first time today and it was awesome. I made my list in the app, clipped a bunch of digital coupons, and it told me exactly which aisles to go down. Of course, there was a bunch of random stuff on my list that was missing. Why did everyone need to buy the strawberry jello? Literally every other flavor was in stock, but the strawberry flavor that I was specifically tasked with grabbing 3 boxes of, was out. WTF Florida?

My grandma never figured out 1 way streets even. She would just drive how she wanted and where. One time she tried to get on the highway using the off ramp. Yet she had a license.

She's going to have trouble with today's grocery stores.

Jeff V wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:10 pmI read a story today that Walmart was going to start sealing off "non-essential" departments, like furniture and arts and crafts.

Man, I had to read that twice because the first time I saw "Walmart is going to start laying people off from underperforming departments"

The grocery store report from rural Maine is that we're continuing to "get it" and people are slowly adapting measures - for the most part. I was out last night and left my wife in the car so we didn't take up two of the 70 allowed occupants in the store. Inside I would say 90% of the 60+ year old people had masks. All of the employees had a hodge-podge of masks, but half with their noses sticking out. Of the under 60 crowd, maybe 70% of them were wearing masks, and those without masks were something like 90% male.

There was one couple I could identify, which isn't bad - but there was also one entire family of five which seemed irresponsible. I have kids of my own, and while the kids may not be bringing the virus home from school, they're FAR less aware of themselves than adults and are more prone to contaminating everything around them. These kids were climbing all over the cart and ranging a few feet away from the parents, but generally sticking close. There's no way to socially distance yourself from a rampaging family when you're in an isle trying to figure out which of the 20 boxes of remaining pasta you want and they're coming at you.

So week by week, rural Maine is still escalating their response, in general. Maine is still under 900 confirmed cases, with 12 known in our county - so it's not even like we're seeing a rash of infections locally to keep the momentum on this. I just tend to think Mainers are a little less selfish than some other states' people are.

I have read predictions that say Maine is in for it because their population is so condensed.
When I was in northern Maine it wasn't but the coastal region seems to be where most people live.

dbt1949 wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:21 am I have read predictions that say Maine is in for it because their population is so condensed.
When I was in northern Maine it wasn't but the coastal region seems to be where most people live.

Rural Mainers call the south coastal strip "Northern Massachusetts."

RunningMn9 wrote: Mon Apr 20, 2020 4:30 pm Just as a counterpoint to the “this isn’t that bad” line of thinking. You are focusing on the wrong things. They aren’t being asked to sit home and watch Netflix and complaining about it.

I understand that they aren’t in physical danger like being drafted into WW2 or Vietnam. And in no way do I think they have to deal with anything like that, and I’m glad for them in that regard.

My son is a freshman in college. He is struggling to transition to an environment where he suddenly had to teach himself Calculus, Computer Architecture, European History, etc. Yes, he isn’t being shot at. But his stress level is through the roof trying to adapt to this situation, and it’s not going well.

My daughter is a junior in high school, and this instant lack of real interaction with any friends, and having to deal with suddenly everyone effectively being homeschooled, she’s starting to struggle with depression and anxiety.

Their complaints have nothing to do with having to watch Netflix. Neither of my kids are introverted, and this last month of enforced isolation has had real, negative effects on them. They have some extra stress too because their grandmother is in a NJ long term care facility - and that is not the goddamn place to be in NJ right now. They’ve been unable to visit her since February (they are very close as my in-laws lived with us for years when the kids were little). Shit adds up man.

They don’t get to claim 9/11 as part of their struggle though. My son was three months old. He didn’t experience anything from it.

My kids are the same ages as yours. My oldest son is also a freshman in college. He wasn't happy about having his year cut short, but he's still working his ass off trying to keep his GPA decent. My younger son is an introvert, his only social interaction was in school, so losing that does suck, but he's happy to stare at his phone, play some games and sleep all the time.

They are handling it ok right now, but these are important years for them and it's being taken away. In one sense, they are old enough to understand what is happening, but still young enough that it will absolutely affect their growth and development.

Kraken wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:46 am

dbt1949 wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:21 am I have read predictions that say Maine is in for it because their population is so condensed.
When I was in northern Maine it wasn't but the coastal region seems to be where most people live.

Rural Mainers call the south coastal strip "Northern Massachusetts."

Well, I wouldn't go that far - but pretty much everything south of Portland might as well be in a different state for how often we go there.

We have two, maybe three real population "centers" - and the COVID-19 map is showing where they are pretty clearly. Where I live ... still crawling up slowly. We're at 12 confirmed cases for the county.

Paingod wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:59 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:46 am

dbt1949 wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:21 am I have read predictions that say Maine is in for it because their population is so condensed.
When I was in northern Maine it wasn't but the coastal region seems to be where most people live.

Rural Mainers call the south coastal strip "Northern Massachusetts."

Well, I wouldn't go that far - but pretty much everything south of Portland might as well be in a different state for how often we go there.

They were flirting with secession at one point.

'Northern Maine is what many consider the real Maine," said Henry Joy, a Republican state representative from Crystal, a town 45 miles west of the Canadian border, who suggests that the northern half of the state retain the name Maine and the southern half be renamed Northern Massachusetts.

When I was there the northern part was potatoes and air force related stuff. The central part was logging and the south was for lobsters and bingo.

dbt1949 wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:04 pm When I was there the northern part was potatoes and air force related stuff. The central part was logging and the south was for lobsters and bingo.

We haven't changed.

Kraken wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:53 pm

Paingod wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:59 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:46 am

dbt1949 wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:21 am I have read predictions that say Maine is in for it because their population is so condensed.
When I was in northern Maine it wasn't but the coastal region seems to be where most people live.

Rural Mainers call the south coastal strip "Northern Massachusetts."

Well, I wouldn't go that far - but pretty much everything south of Portland might as well be in a different state for how often we go there.

They were flirting with secession at one point.

'Northern Maine is what many consider the real Maine," said Henry Joy, a Republican state representative from Crystal, a town 45 miles west of the Canadian border, who suggests that the northern half of the state retain the name Maine and the southern half be renamed Northern Massachusetts.

No Mas. Has a nice ring to it.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:32 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 2:53 pm

Paingod wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 1:59 pm

Kraken wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:46 am

dbt1949 wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:21 am I have read predictions that say Maine is in for it because their population is so condensed.
When I was in northern Maine it wasn't but the coastal region seems to be where most people live.

Rural Mainers call the south coastal strip "Northern Massachusetts."

Well, I wouldn't go that far - but pretty much everything south of Portland might as well be in a different state for how often we go there.

They were flirting with secession at one point.

'Northern Maine is what many consider the real Maine," said Henry Joy, a Republican state representative from Crystal, a town 45 miles west of the Canadian border, who suggests that the northern half of the state retain the name Maine and the southern half be renamed Northern Massachusetts.

No Mas. Has a nice ring to it.

"The Photon State"

Dallas just extended the stay at home order to May15th.

been tracking Washington's descending status in the states with most infections. we were #1 but are now at #15 (Maryland and Ohio just surpassed us) and Indiana will do so very soon; probably by tomorrow.

hitbyambulance wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 6:37 pm we were #1 but are now at #15 (Maryland and Ohio just surpassed us) and Indiana will do so very soon; probably by tomorrow.

Yeah! Take that!

So what was changed with the mask? I remember back in January when I wrote about wearing mask is better than not wearing one. People seemed to agree that mask was almost useless.

Same as everything else: New information. And it is still mostly useless for what people were talking about in January - avoiding catching it.

Victoria Raverna wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:58 pm So what was changed with the mask? I remember back in January when I wrote about wearing mask is better than not wearing one. People seemed to agree that mask was almost useless.

This is what our local public health department has to say on the issue as of today:

Dr. Vera Etches wrote:I know there has been evolving messaging about whether or not to wear a mask. If you are coughing or sneezing, wear a non-medical mask to protect people around you from getting sick. This is very important if you go to an appointment, clinic or a hospital. Do not go to other public places when you are sick, even if you are wearing a mask.

If you are not sick or not displaying symptoms and are going to a public place (e.g., grocery store or pharmacy) wearing homemade masks or face coverings may offer some additional protection to those around you where maintaining physical distancing is difficult.

The reason for wearing a non-medical mask if someone is not displaying symptoms is that they may still be a non-symptomatic carrier and in that case a mask may reduce the amount of virus-laden respiratory droplets that they are spewing out of their gaping facial plague-holes.

Victoria Raverna wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 9:58 pm So what was changed with the mask? I remember back in January when I wrote about wearing mask is better than not wearing one. People seemed to agree that mask was almost useless.

What changed was the notion of wearing masks strictly as a means of protection against infection vs. wearing them as means to further limit the spread of one's own respiratory emissions while out and about in public (which could be critically important if asymptomatic individuals can otherwise remain completely unaware they're even spreading the virus around).

And I think it was always kind of recommended for people who were ill (or in direct contact with ill people), and now they realize there are a lot more infectious people with mild or no symptoms, and it's better to just act as if everyone is potentially infectious.

Also, people are now making their own masks, as opposed to getting the high quality professional stuff for which there's still not enough for people who work in the field.

Kraken wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 10:46 am

dbt1949 wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 8:21 am I have read predictions that say Maine is in for it because their population is so condensed.
When I was in northern Maine it wasn't but the coastal region seems to be where most people live.

Rural Mainers call the south coastal strip "Northern Massachusetts."

Well, Maine used to be part of Massachusettes until a couple of hundred years ago (Happy 200th, by the way).