The Trump Investigation(s) Thread

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu May 17, 2018 8:54 am

There are some counter balancing arguments here IMO. This person hadn't seen this before and seemingly formed a conclusion that this was nefarious. Is that based on good judgement? Who knows. They are anonymous at the moment but as the article implies this is a very unusual situation. There is a mechanism for protecting reports but moving them hadn't been seen before. Thus the implication the reports weren't simply being suppressed due to investigation. They were truly missing. Outside an investigatory process. That should give everyone a lot of pause. If we can't trust that official records aren't going to be tampered with then we are well on the way to an illiberal form of government.

On the other side, perhaps they were hidden due to an investigation and this person just potentially compromised it. Or actual mistakes were made and now this person has raised an alarm that didn't need to be raised. Sins worth prosecuting? Maybe. In either case, this is possibly the story of the year at the moment. This is a warning that things may be worse than many imagined and considering everything else happening I think it might be worth allowing someone to make that leap to have a last minute chance to save us. I feel for that person. They made a gut-wrenching decision but a seemingly ethical one.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu May 17, 2018 9:18 am

malchior wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 8:54 am This is a warning that things may be worse than many imagined...

10% visible, 90% invisible. Iceberg, dead ahead!

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu May 17, 2018 9:25 am

malchior wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 8:54 amI think it might be worth allowing someone to make that leap to have a last minute chance to save us. I feel for that person. They made a gut-wrenching decision but a seemingly ethical one.

I'd agree.

My impression was that this official is someone who's been using this system for a very long time and got instant alarm bells when they saw something that's possible but never been done before happen right in front of them. I imagine there was a serious sinking sensation followed by a few hard swallows and a sleepless night or two before they picked up the whistle.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu May 17, 2018 9:36 am

To anyone who thought the Stormy stuff was a nothingburger. Wow. This thing seemingly has no bottom at the moment.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu May 17, 2018 9:40 am

Just watched the Maddow attachment. I'm still not informed but I like the surprisingly even handed way she at least appeared to break things down for me.

For my less even handed understanding. It fumes me that as each #WITCHUNT #NOTHINGBURGER exposure event happens that is not necessarily the final nail in the coffin. The response is consistent "Well, I'm going to admit to this thing that I either ignored or lied about or "misunderstood" now but I don't have to." MAGA DEEP STATE NO COLLUSION WITCH HUNT NOTHING BURGER DRAIN THE SWAMP FAKE MEDIA LOCK HER UP BIRTH CERTIFICATE LOOK AT THE GROUSE LOOK AT THE GROUSE

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu May 17, 2018 9:53 am

Yesterday's NYT story revealed that an FBI informant met with Carter Page and George Papadapoulos during the campaign. Both (along with Manafort and Flynn) were of course under investigation at the time.

Trump today is trying to spin it as the OMG OBAMA SPYING WIRETAPP story his people were pushing at the beginning.

Wow, word seems to be coming out that the Obama FBI “SPIED ON THE TRUMP CAMPAIGN WITH AN EMBEDDED INFORMANT.” Andrew McCarthy says, “There’s probably no doubt that they had at least one confidential informant in the campaign.” If so, this is bigger than Watergate!

I really wonder whether Trump wants to die on Carter Page Hill. Another revelation just out is that the FBI intercepted communications indicated that (well before the Trump campaign ever began) Carter Page *reported back to Russian spies* that the FBI had visited him and warned him that he was being recruited by Russian spies.

"Bigger than Watergate!" is fucking right.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu May 17, 2018 10:20 am

One interpretation I've read about the missing reports is that they could have been pulled on Mueller's orders, that they're sensitive enough to his investigation that he didn't want them exposed.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu May 17, 2018 10:34 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 10:20 am One interpretation I've read about the missing reports is that they could have been pulled on Mueller's orders, that they're sensitive enough to his investigation that he didn't want them exposed.

You think there be some kind of "active investigation" placeholder though. Or at least "file not missing".

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu May 17, 2018 10:37 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 10:20 am One interpretation I've read about the missing reports is that they could have been pulled on Mueller's orders, that they're sensitive enough to his investigation that he didn't want them exposed.

The New Yorker article specifically called that out as a possible explanation.

Nevertheless, a former prosecutor who spent years working with the FinCEN database said that she knew of no mechanism for restricting access to SARs. She speculated that FinCEN may have taken the extraordinary step of restricting access “because of the highly sensitive nature of a potential investigation. It may be that someone reached out to FinCEN to ask to limit disclosure of certain SARs related to an investigation, whether it was the special counsel or the Southern District of New York.” (The special counsel, Robert Mueller, is investigating Russian interference in the 2016 Presidential election. The Southern District is investigating Cohen, and the F.B.I. raided his office and hotel room last month.)

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Thu May 17, 2018 10:43 am

malchior wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 9:36 am To anyone who thought the Stormy stuff was a nothingburger. Wow. This thing seemingly has no bottom at the moment.

It's the new "Bottomless Nothingburger" from Red Robin. A neverending feast of bullshit that continually overflows from your plate. The reward for eating the new burger with a smile is a bright red, 1st edition MAGA hat.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Thu May 17, 2018 11:02 am

I think at this point you'd need to have your head buried deep in the sand to think nothing is going on. Really, it seems to be a matter of figuring out the scope and scale. What I am really enjoying is how Mueller is more or less creeping around in the background while Avenatti is out in front, drawing fire and seemingly baiting Twitter revelations. That their investigations could possibly intersect or that they're indirectly helping each other in any capacity is going to make the big reveal that much better.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu May 17, 2018 11:06 am

I'd love for those two documents to be in Mueller's hands. If the one that got leaked was the benign one of the three? There's some fun a'comin'!

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Thu May 17, 2018 11:22 am

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 11:06 am I'd love for those two documents to be in Mueller's hands. If the one that got leaked was the benign one of the three? There's some fun a'comin'!

Honestly, if we're dreaming here, I'd love for there to have been an attempt at supression from the executive but for it to fail and be exposed. Trying to bury SARs? Add it to the list.

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Thu May 17, 2018 11:26 am

Either one is fine. Anything but 'brushed under the rug.'

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu May 17, 2018 12:22 pm

Rip wrote: ↑Fri Mar 02, 2018 7:08 pm Yea, I'm sure it is all over not giving money to the Kush.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/04/opin ... eform.html

Maybe it was all about not giving money to Cohen.

Michael Cohen, President Trump’s personal attorney, solicited a payment of at least $1 million from the government of Qatar in late 2016, in exchange for access to and advice about the then-incoming administration, according to the recipient of the offer and several others with knowledge of the episode.

The offer, which Qatar declined, came on the margins of a Dec. 12 meeting that year at Trump Tower between the Persian Gulf state’s foreign minister and Michael Flynn, who became Trump’s first national security adviser. Stephen K. Bannon, who became White House chief strategist, also attended.

Cohen did not participate in the official meetings but spoke separately to a member of the Qatari delegation, Ahmed al-Rumaihi, who at the time was head of the investments division of the country’s sovereign wealth fund, the Qatar Investment Authority.

Details emerged last week on how Cohen leveraged his relationship with Trump to receive millions of dollars from companies eager for insight and entree into the new president’s inner circle. They included AT&T, the global pharmaceutical giant Novartis, a Korean defense contractor and Columbus Nova, a New York-based investment firm with ties to a Russian oligarch. All have confirmed payments to Cohen.

But news of the Qatar solicitation marks the first time Cohen is believed to have pitched his influence directly to a foreign government.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:00 pm

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:03 pm

Seems appropriate to but this tweet in this thread, but it could certainly go elsewhere:

Despite the disgusting, illegal and unwarranted Witch Hunt, we have had the most successful first 17 month Administration in U.S. history - by far! Sorry to the Fake News Media and “Haters,” but that’s the way it is!

So many Trump buzzwords packed into 280 characters or less.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:14 pm

I saw that Tweet earlier. I had a wish at that moment that he would have a face melt moment like when they opened the Ark in Raiders.

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:17 pm

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:18 pm

I wonder if he actually believes he's the most successful president in history?

I still hope it's just cheap salesmanship aimed at the rubes, but I've come more and more to worry that Trump is genuinely disconnected from reality.

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:33 pm

This is only a witch hunt in that it's finding actual witches who admit to practicing witchcraft.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Thu May 17, 2018 1:34 pm

Of course he does. Fox & Friends keep telling him so!

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 pm

Can someone explain that picture to me.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu May 17, 2018 2:42 pm

Know Your Meme

Haters Gonna Hate is a catchphrase used to indicate a disregard for hostile remarks addressed towards the speaker. This expression has its roots in American hip hop, and spawned an image macro series featuring pictures of celebrities, animals and cartoon characters strutting or posing in a conceited manner.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Thu May 17, 2018 2:47 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 pm Can someone explain that picture to me.

He's practicing his goosestepping for the upcoming military parade.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Thu May 17, 2018 2:51 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 2:42 pm Know Your Meme

Haters Gonna Hate is a catchphrase used to indicate a disregard for hostile remarks addressed towards the speaker. This expression has its roots in American hip hop, and spawned an image macro series featuring pictures of celebrities, animals and cartoon characters strutting or posing in a conceited manner.

Because if there's anyone who brushes off criticism and opposition with a light heart and an easy step, it's Donald Trump.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu May 17, 2018 2:51 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 2:42 pm Know Your Meme

Haters Gonna Hate is a catchphrase used to indicate a disregard for hostile remarks addressed towards the speaker. This expression has its roots in American hip hop, and spawned an image macro series featuring pictures of celebrities, animals and cartoon characters strutting or posing in a conceited manner.

I'm still lost.

tgb wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 2:47 pm
LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 pm Can someone explain that picture to me.
He's practicing his goosestepping for the upcoming military parade.

That was as close as I got before I conceded defeat.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Thu May 17, 2018 4:26 pm

YellowKing wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 1:33 pm This is only a witch hunt in that it's finding actual witches who admit to practicing witchcraft.

Actually, it's more like changing the definition of witchcraft (constantly):

Here are the seven distinct stages of collusion denial I've identified:

1. November 2016: No communications, period

Hope Hicks: “It never happened. There was no communication between the campaign and any foreign entity during the campaign.”

2. February 2017: There were no communications, “to the best of our knowledge”

Sarah Huckabee Sanders: “This is a non-story because, to the best of our knowledge, no contacts took place.”

3. March 2017: There were communications, but no planned meetings with Russians

Donald Trump Jr.: “Did I meet with people that were Russian? I'm sure, I'm sure I did. ... But none that were set up. None that I can think of at the moment. And certainly none that I was representing the campaign in any way, shape or form.”

4. July 8, 2017: There was a planned meeting at Trump Tower, but it was “primarily” about adoption and not the campaign

Trump Jr.: “We primarily discussed a program about the adoption of Russian children that was active and popular with American families years ago and was since ended by the Russian government, but it was not a campaign issue at that time and there was no follow-up.”

5. July 9, 2017: The meeting was planned to discuss the campaign, but the information exchanged wasn't “meaningful”

Trump Jr.: “No details or supporting information was provided or even offered. It quickly became clear that she had no meaningful information.”

6. December 2017: Collusion isn't even a crime

President Trump: “There is no collusion, and even if there was, it’s not a crime.”

Jay Sekulow: “For something to be a crime, there has to be a statute that you claim is being violated. There is not a statute that refers to criminal collusion. There is no crime of collusion.”

(Technically speaking, the criminal code doesn't use the word “collusion,” but it's generally understood as a broad term that could encompass more specific, codified crimes. And even special counsel Robert S. Mueller III's team has used it in court filings.)

7. May 2018: Even if meaningful information were obtained, it wasn't used

Giuliani: “And even if it comes from a Russian, or a German, or an American, it doesn’t matter. And they never used it, is the main thing. They never used it. They rejected it. If there was collusion with the Russians, they would have used it.”

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Thu May 17, 2018 4:31 pm

the seven (so far) stages of Greifing a republic?

Rip · Post by **Rip** » Thu May 17, 2018 4:34 pm

My assumption was he had just won a free Big Mac in the McDonalds scratch off game.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Thu May 17, 2018 5:21 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 2:51 pm
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 2:42 pm Know Your Meme

Haters Gonna Hate is a catchphrase used to indicate a disregard for hostile remarks addressed towards the speaker. This expression has its roots in American hip hop, and spawned an image macro series featuring pictures of celebrities, animals and cartoon characters strutting or posing in a conceited manner.

Because if there's anyone who brushes off criticism and opposition with a light heart and an easy step, it's Donald Trump.

It'd be a lot more accurate if it had Mueller's head.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Thu May 17, 2018 5:57 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 8:54 am we are well on the way to an illiberal form of government.

Can I get a "HELL. YEAH!!!" from the Deplorables?

Fitzy · Post by **Fitzy** » Thu May 17, 2018 6:03 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 1:18 pm I wonder if he actually believes he's the most successful president in history?

I still hope it's just cheap salesmanship aimed at the rubes, but I've come more and more to worry that Trump is genuinely disconnected from reality.

He is a narcissist. He doesn't just believe it, he knows he is the greatest president in history.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Thu May 17, 2018 6:21 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Thu May 17, 2018 2:29 pm Can someone explain that picture to me.

Trump is the best hater, everyone says so, so of course he's gonna hate. In this particular image, it is clear that his hatred of everything that isn't Trump puts a spring in his step and fills his day with a childlike joy.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Fri May 18, 2018 8:46 am

tjg_marantz wrote: ↑Wed May 16, 2018 8:06 pm

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 18, 2018 9:35 am

“Apparently the DOJ put a Spy in the Trump Campaign. This has never been done before and by any means necessary, they are out to frame Donald Trump for crimes he didn’t commit.” David Asman @LouDobbs @GreggJarrett Really bad stuff!

Trying to figure out who he is quoting (David Asman?) to understand context but failing under the weight of everyone reporting the tweet.

isgirumnur
isgirumnur
isgirumnur

Paingod · Post by **Paingod** » Fri May 18, 2018 9:38 am

I would dearly love to know what kinds of drugs or brain worms people have that let them believe the government is acting against the president and he's the victim. This is like a school bully crying to his parents because a teacher caught him stealing lunch money and made him give it back.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Fri May 18, 2018 9:52 am

LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 9:35 am

“Apparently the DOJ put a Spy in the Trump Campaign. This has never been done before and by any means necessary, they are out to frame Donald Trump for crimes he didn’t commit.” David Asman @LouDobbs @GreggJarrett Really bad stuff!
Trying to figure out who he is quoting (David Asman?) to understand context but failing under the weight of everyone reporting the tweet.

isgirumnur
isgirumnur
isgirumnur

The context is a NYT story a couple of days back revealing that both Carter Page and George Papadopoulos unwittingly spoke with an FBI informant during the campaign. The FBI was snooping out both of them, which is completely appropriate because both were under investigation for their secret contacts with Russians and other foreign agents.

Trump is trying to spin this as "Obama had the FBI spying on us to help Hillary win!!" and of course Fox will follow suit.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:16 am

Holman wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 9:52 am
LordMortis wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 9:35 am

“Apparently the DOJ put a Spy in the Trump Campaign. This has never been done before and by any means necessary, they are out to frame Donald Trump for crimes he didn’t commit.” David Asman @LouDobbs @GreggJarrett Really bad stuff!
Trying to figure out who he is quoting (David Asman?) to understand context but failing under the weight of everyone reporting the tweet.

isgirumnur
isgirumnur
isgirumnur
The context is a NYT story a couple of days back revealing that both Carter Page and George Papadopoulos unwittingly spoke with an FBI informant during the campaign. The FBI was snooping out both of them, which is completely appropriate because both were under investigation for their secret contacts with Russians and other foreign agents.

Trump is trying to spin this as "Obama had the FBI spying on us to help Hillary win!!" and of course Fox will follow suit.

The theory is that the FBI, coordinating with Clinton, was planning an "October Surprise" to throw the election to Clinton. See if you can spot the tiny flaw with that theory.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Fri May 18, 2018 10:17 am

Holman wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 9:52 am The context is a NYT story a couple of days back revealing that both Carter Page and George Papadopoulos unwittingly spoke with an FBI informant during the campaign. The FBI was snooping out both of them, which is completely appropriate because both were under investigation for their secret contacts with Russians and other foreign agents.

Trump is trying to spin this as "Obama had the FBI spying on us to help Hillary win!!" and of course Fox will follow suit.

Rip wrote: ↑Fri May 18, 2018 4:04 am The IG investigation isn't so much about the Clinton e-mail scandal itself but the investigation of it.

I would think the people being accused of crimes here are Obama's minions more than Clinton's.

Still have the IG investigation on the FISA warrant on Page to look forward to as well.

I suppose I need to find the NYT story because key words suggest you two (and Trump and David Asman) are all talking about the same thing?