malchior wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 10:26 am
Seriously. We.Still.Do.Not.Have.Testing. The time bought keeps being wasted. It's infuriating. Though some of it comes down to the Governor's too. I'm still trying to figure out why NJ which is home to pharma and bioscience is still lagging severely behind other states while we are one of the hardest hit states.
You didn't hear it from me, but NJ's problem is that each of the 21 counties is acting like its own state. Worse, there are towns within each of those acting like their own states. NJ's public health infrastructure does not work during an event that requires us to function like a unified front. The delays in testing/tracing/isolating are absolutely connected to the patchwork of services we have available. The governor - as powerful as he is - cannot easily create a state-level testing/tracing/isolation program that would sit "over" the fractured infrastructure in place. The very problems that drive our insane property taxes here (number of school districts, number of local police/fire/EMT services, etc...) are making a unified response difficult, if not impossible. If this doesn't change how we offer services in our state, nothing will. I've been waiting now for 4+ weeks to be called in for tracing work via the State. I have not because counties are setting that up now. It's a cluster F.
I suspected this but the Governor's job is to tell us that then. I have long thought about moving away because the tax situation is untenable but also because my job doesn't care where I live. Why not live somewhere cheaper that isn't run by a corrupt local government mafia? Also, the state pension fiscal bombs? Maybe this pandemic is a way out. Say we can't afford to uphold the bargain anymore. Otherwise it'll just implode sooner. I don't know but the state fiscal situation is a ticking time bomb. And then we have the corrupt or incompetent parade of Governors back through my whole adult life?! I'm definitely going to be thinking hard about this.
He's right! The military mindset always means to [checks notes] stand up unarmed and unprotected and walk into enemy fire.
The enemy? We need average Americans to patriotically die to... fight the enemy?... Which is... step 3... profit? I thought the enemy was Covid 19. Shows what I know.
Kraken wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 10:34 amYup. The Globe ran a story today about how trump has "moved on" from the coronavirus to focus on the economy (and his reelection, duh), leaving it up to Congress and governors to cobble together a patchwork of strategies. You'd think that would be more difficult without centralized leadership/authority, but given the incompetence of those occupying the WH, it's better that they declare victory and stay out of the way.
I wish it'd work that way. The Federal government is a roadblock no matter what. And what happens if anything is seen as hurting his re-election? They'll stonewall things. This is going to be one of the dumbest, hardest, nation rending election seasons ever and the backdrop will be this grinding death toll.
To his cultists, the death toll will be fake news. Some states are already suppressing or cooking the numbers.
Two counties' sheriffs announced they will not be enforcing shutdown. Another two counties announced their intention to open despite being significantly over the threshold of new cases per 100,000. My own county, York, just announced they will not be citing anyone or enforcing the shutdown.
I think the Supreme Court's decision to not take up the case against Wolf in conjunction with the stay-at-home order being extended until June 4th for most of southern PA pretty much were the last straws for people locally. Even before that, there was a sense of "they can't arrest or cite everyone."
It'll be interesting to see what governors will do with county and local officials (let alone businesses) that disobey. There aren't enough state police to remotely enforce things, yet if the governors don't act in some manner, people will realize any future orders are toothless leading to a much lower compliance rate. Moreover, if businesses are going to open haphazardly without necessarily following guidance or planning from the state, it's a mess from a liability and safety standpoint. I would guess that means we're more likely to have Lockdown #2 Electrico Bugaloo, and that fewer people are going to comply.
This is what I find so frustrating. According to that site, here's NC:
However, we've already moved into Phase 1 of re-opening, primarily due to percentage of positive cases relative to tests performed. Our local hospital has already moved to Phase II re-opening. If you listen to the governor talk, we've got a long way to go but we're doing great and reaching a point where we can start scaling back restrictions.
This isn't the first time I've seen data from one source saying NC is in dire straits while everyone else is telling me we're on the downward slope. And NC is not one of those states that's opening up willy-nilly - as I mentioned before, the lady who is in charge of our pandemic response guidance worked for years under the Obama administration in this field, and our Democratic governor is certainly no fan of Trump.
So which is it? It's no wonder half the population believes something different than the other half. We're not getting consistent information.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 3:51 pm
by Jeff V
If you tilt your head sideways then the graph looks like it's going down. Have some perspective!
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:00 pm
by em2nought
I think I might put "Trump 2020" on my masks with permanent marker. It might give other people the same idea and improve compliance as I'm seeing lots of people without masks now. Personally I'm all for masks, wasn't too keen about facial recognition software in the first place. Antifa must be a bit upset that they aren't as "special" now that everyone has(had) a mask.
My car even practices social distancing.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 4:51 pm
by Kraken
YellowKing wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 3:48 pm
This is what I find so frustrating. According to that site, here's NC:
However, we've already moved into Phase 1 of re-opening, primarily due to percentage of positive cases relative to tests performed. Our local hospital has already moved to Phase II re-opening. If you listen to the governor talk, we've got a long way to go but we're doing great and reaching a point where we can start scaling back restrictions.
This isn't the first time I've seen data from one source saying NC is in dire straits while everyone else is telling me we're on the downward slope. And NC is not one of those states that's opening up willy-nilly - as I mentioned before, the lady who is in charge of our pandemic response guidance worked for years under the Obama administration in this field, and our Democratic governor is certainly no fan of Trump.
So which is it? It's no wonder half the population believes something different than the other half. We're not getting consistent information.
Their graph for MA accurately shows us just beginning to come down from the plateau. Given that we've got the third-highest fatalities in the US, and that Massholes overwhelmingly support our guv's mitigation measures (which expire next Monday), I hope that they will be extended for a couple more weeks, until that trend line is clear. We do NOT want to jump the gun and have to shut 'er down again a month from now.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:09 pm
by Alefroth
YellowKing wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 3:48 pm
This is what I find so frustrating. According to that site, here's NC:
However, we've already moved into Phase 1 of re-opening, primarily due to percentage of positive cases relative to tests performed. Our local hospital has already moved to Phase II re-opening. If you listen to the governor talk, we've got a long way to go but we're doing great and reaching a point where we can start scaling back restrictions.
This isn't the first time I've seen data from one source saying NC is in dire straits while everyone else is telling me we're on the downward slope. And NC is not one of those states that's opening up willy-nilly - as I mentioned before, the lady who is in charge of our pandemic response guidance worked for years under the Obama administration in this field, and our Democratic governor is certainly no fan of Trump.
So which is it? It's no wonder half the population believes something different than the other half. We're not getting consistent information.
Looks like the data has just been updated. The last snapshot showed WA having hit a plateau half-way down the slope. Now we are down in Need Action again with the plateau moving up again. Wonder if that coincides with anything.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:24 pm
by hitbyambulance
Alefroth wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 5:09 pm
Looks like the data has just been updated. The last snapshot showed WA having hit a plateau half-way down the slope. Now we are down in Need Action again with the plateau moving up again. Wonder if that coincides with anything.
i don't think we're going 'Phase 2' anytime soon
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:38 pm
by Blackhawk
Pfft. Wimps. The real patriots are already at stage 4!
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 5:38 pm
by pr0ner
Virginia, in its (infinite?) wisdom, has now decided that Northern Virginia doesn't have to enter Phase I on Friday with the rest of the state.
Not so sure I'm a fan of this piecemeal approach, personally. But Northern VA definitely has more cases than the rest of the state.
There's a more recent video on that page that shows the question just prior, in which he tells a young lady of the Asian persuasion to "go ask China." He unloads on the CNN reporter after she calls him out on his implied racism.
I wish the legitimate press would boycott these things and just let him talk to Fox and the Onan network.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 7:10 pm
by Holman
Kraken wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 6:40 pm
Onan network.
Peter Daszak is a scientist whose work is helping in the search for a COVID-19 cure. So why did the president just cancel Daszak's funding? It's the kind of politics which might seem ill-advised in a health crisis. President Trump is blaming China's government for the pandemic. The outbreak was first detected in the city of Wuhan. The administration has said, at times, the virus is man-made or that, if it's natural, it must have leaked out of a Chinese government lab. Both the White House and the Chinese Communist Party have been less than honest. And so, in China, and the U.S., the work of scientists like Peter Daszak is being undercut by pandemic politics.
The department issued the order to C&C Breakfast & Korean Kitchen just after 12:30 p.m. Monday after the restaurant’s Sunday actions, which followed a Friday warning from the health department that restaurants are only allowed to do take-out or delivery services.
...
The health department said that the restaurant will remain closed until the department determines the restaurant is in compliance with the public health order. The TCHD said that if the restaurant refuses to follow the public health order, the department could take further legal action, including revoking the restaurant’s license.
I'm sure this is going well, locally. Has a GoFundMe started? Will Ted Cruz be flying in for pancakes this weekend?
He urged people who disagree with the public health order and other state laws to use their First Amendment right to speak out against them but said that doesn’t mean they can simply violate laws.
At least your Governor doesn't have his head up his ass.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 9:50 pm
by GungHo
Alefroth wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 2:39 pm
How is your state doing?
Not sure why Puerto Rico gets a 'Nearly There'. That's a horrible looking graph.
There are 11000 cases in Rhode Island?!? I didn't think 11000 people lived in Rhode Island. It's like the size of my backyard.
Also, I've transitioned the 5 stages of grief and I've accepted the death of America. Y'all should try it. Doesn't hurt as much
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Mon May 11, 2020 10:16 pm
by Skinypupy
GungHo wrote: Mon May 11, 2020 9:50 pm
Also, I've transitioned the 5 stages of grief and I've accepted the death of America. Y'all should try it. Doesn't hurt as much
Been there for a while now, sadly. Just a matter of how long it will take and what things will look like when it's done.
Doctors Without Borders is best known for sending medical professionals into international conflict zones in the midst of medical crises. The organization has teams in Afghanistan, Iran, Sierra Leone, Venezuela and 66 other countries. It did not, however, have a medical presence in the U.S. — until now.
Jean Stowell, head of the organization's U.S. COVID-19 Response Team, told CBS News that Doctors Without Borders has dispatched a team of nine to the hard-hit Navajo Nation in the southwest U.S. because of the crisis unfolding there. The team consists of two physicians, three nurse/midwives, a water sanitation specialist, two logisticians and a health promoter who specializes in community health education.
Trump's logic is saying she didn't respond when he pointed to her. Was she supposed to shove the other woman who was speaking out of the way?
I like the guy standing near the podium at the end too, kind of nervously wishing he wasn't there.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 8:08 am
by malchior
Yesterday in the United States is batshit (not all are direct coronavirus):
*Governor Wolf flexes on people saying they'll ignore his public safety orders and Trump eggs on the rebellion
*Mitch McConnell calls Obama "classless" and "should have kept his mouth shut' because Obama comments about the administration's pandemic performance were leaked from a private call(1) but mostly because he is uppity.
*Mary McCord wrote an op ed saying Bill Barr twisted her words to justify his nakedly political decision on Flynn
*Chuck Grassley goes down on the floor of Senate to say the FBI entrapped Flynn and Comey intentionally got fired to set up the Mueller investigation and says the people involved 'ought to be prosecuted'.
*Right-wing twitter was openly debating whether chasing down people who look in construction sites and murdering them is appropriate. The answer were between shades of 'yes' and 'shoot the n******'. @Mattwalshblog said it was unjustified and the mob screamed at him for 12 hours then he clarified to say it was ok after it became a struggle over a weapon.
(1) Oh it was intentional but that is the opposite of 'classless'
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 8:17 am
by LordMortis
I think I'ma troll for some smoove this morning. I hear smoove is good eatin'.
One question - given that the virus appears to spread via touch as well as from coughed droplets, shouldn't everyone be wearing gloves as well as masks?
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:04 am
by Max Peck
El Guapo wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:29 am
One question - given that the virus appears to spread via touch as well as from coughed droplets, shouldn't everyone be wearing gloves as well as masks?
That's what washing your hands is all about. Since the virus does not enter your body through the skin, gloves are not necessary and for the most part just increase your chance of infecting yourself if you put them on or take them off incorrectly while contaminated. And even if you do wear gloves and do handle them correctly, you still need to wash your hands regularly (including before donning and after removing the gloves).
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:04 am
by Holman
El Guapo wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:29 am
One question - given that the virus appears to spread via touch as well as from coughed droplets, shouldn't everyone be wearing gloves as well as masks?
That's what all the handwashing and Purell and not-touching-your-face is about.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:08 am
by Blackhawk
El Guapo wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:29 am
One question - given that the virus appears to spread via touch as well as from coughed droplets, shouldn't everyone be wearing gloves as well as masks?
Nope. Gloves are great if you're in a pristine environment (surgery) where you can't guarantee your hands are 100% clean, and they're even better where you need to prevent contaminants from touching your skin. The issue with COVID-19, though, is that you want to prevent contaminants on surfaces from making their way in through your membranes - largely located on your face.
If you have two people who walk into the store, one of whom just washed their hands, the other of whom washed and put on gloves. Each of them open the contaminated door with their hands, then touch a few cans of food, a couple of which are contaminated. At this point, if COVID-19 is present, the outside of the gloves are just as contaminated as the skin of the hands. If either one rubs their eye, the result is the same. If both take the gloves off and wash their hands afterward, the result is the same.
And the problem is that the gloves really do make people careless. They think that the gloves make touching unsafe things safe. They don't know the proper way to wear gloves, they wear them too long, and they don't know how to take them off. And they don't realize that you have to wash your hands just as thoroughly when you take gloves off as if you weren't wearing gloves at all.
El Guapo wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:29 am
One question - given that the virus appears to spread via touch as well as from coughed droplets, shouldn't everyone be wearing gloves as well as masks?
That's what washing your hands is all about. Since the virus does not enter your body through the skin, gloves are not necessary and for the most part just increase your chance of infecting yourself if you put them on or take them off incorrectly while contaminated. And even if you do wear gloves and do handle them correctly, you still need to wash your hands regularly (including before donning and after removing the gloves).
Right - that makes sense. I was wondering whether gloves would make sense, if you take them off right when you come back in, but I suppose that's not an improvement on just washing your hands when you come inside.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:09 am
by Blackhawk
Once again, a too-long answer gets me scooped.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:11 am
by Smoove_B
El Guapo wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:29 am
One question - given that the virus appears to spread via touch as well as from coughed droplets, shouldn't everyone be wearing gloves as well as masks?
No. It can spread through touch but that's not the primary method or one that is currently considered "high risk". Instead the scenarios we're currently trying to avoid are being indoors with (magic number) of people, releasing viral particles into the air (most likely coughing and sneezing, but maybe not exclusively) and having other people breathe them in or get in their eyes. There is a risk of touching something that's been coated with viral particles and then touching your own face (eye/nose/mouth) but the risk for that hasn't been fully established. We're just more or less using information about other respiratory viruses to suggest a likelihood of transmission is possible through touch. Instead of wearing gloves, making sure you wash your hands after being out is the message.
From what I've seen anecdotally, the average person does not know how to remove gloves without potentially contaminating their hands. Also, people are goddamn animals and they're just tossing gloves in parking lots or where ever they fee like it. Glove use really isn't helping here and in some cases it could be making things worse. Hand hygiene is a better message.
Also, F Mitch McConnell.
EDIT: Once again, a too-long answer gets me scooped.
Re: Corona Virus: It's a Marathon, Not a Sprint
Posted: Tue May 12, 2020 9:21 am
by Unagi
El Guapo wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:29 am
One question - given that the virus appears to spread via touch as well as from coughed droplets, shouldn't everyone be wearing gloves as well as masks?
Do we secrete the virus through our skin ?
Do we absorb the virus through our skin?
Does the virus survive on the surface of: rubber?
Does the virus survive on the surface of: skin?
El Guapo wrote: Tue May 12, 2020 8:29 am
One question - given that the virus appears to spread via touch as well as from coughed droplets, shouldn't everyone be wearing gloves as well as masks?
No. It can spread through touch but that's not the primary method or one that is currently considered "high risk". Instead the scenarios we're currently trying to avoid are being indoors with (magic number) of people, releasing viral particles into the air (most likely coughing and sneezing, but maybe not exclusively) and having other people breathe them in or get in their eyes. There is a risk of touching something that's been coated with viral particles and then touching your own face (eye/nose/mouth) but the risk for that hasn't been fully established. We're just more or less using information about other respiratory viruses to suggest a likelihood of transmission is possible through touch. Instead of wearing gloves, making sure you wash your hands after being out is the message.
From what I've seen anecdotally, the average person does not know how to remove gloves without potentially contaminating their hands. Also, people are goddamn animals and they're just tossing gloves in parking lots or where ever they fee like it. Glove use really isn't helping here and in some cases it could be making things worse. Hand hygiene is a better message.
Also, F Mitch McConnell.
EDIT: Once again, a too-long answer gets me scooped.
Yeah, and one of the things that I was wondering is along these lines - it seems vaguely like people think the risk of spreading through coughing / breathing / sneezing around people, especially in indoor environments, is materially higher than the risk of spreading through common touch of objects. Though I'm not sure that that matters too much in practice, as there's likely some risk from common touch as well.
I agree on McConnell, but is there anything specific that prompted that now?
