Octopus Overlords

Some things I don't like about Civ 6, and that I hope gets addressed in Civ 7:

- The production cost scaling system of districts, where districts get more expensive over time. It only seems to apply to districts specifically (not buildings or units or anything else) and the math of it is opaque. I know it's based off how many of certain districts are built globally, which means if your opponents specialize into culture you're better off specializing into something else. I just don't like it, and don't understand what problem it's supposed to solve. If you have five civs all competing for the same victory condition, what's the problem?

- The pastelle art style. I don't mind cartoony, to an extent, but the color contrast of the Civ 6 map is too pronounced. Dark blue lakes against searing yellow plains.

- The Loyalty system (used to be Culture Flipping in previous games) where it's not only very difficult to conquer cities but extremely hard to keep them unless you conquer close by your existing cities. It makes "Age of Sail" style colonization impossible. Invading the Aztects means their cities will just flip back within a few turns even if you have an overwhelming tech advantage. It's fine to an extent but needs to be dialed down.

- Religious/civilian units running around and clogging the map. In a 1 military unit per tile game you shouldn't have to look at a bunch of "civilian" units at all, it gets visually messy.

- "Wonder" race and "Religion" race: This is not invented by Civ6, but I REALLY hate the idea of starting and almost finish a certain Wonder only to have an AI with production bonuses on higher difficulty setting nab it and refund my production. Same with founding religions. Why do they "run out"? I think Humankind solved it decently with you "claiming" a wonder and being the only one allowed to build it. That also means unlocking a Wonder you want quickly through technology is as important as having high production to actually build it.

At least in Civ V, certain civs were known to spam missionaries. If one of these unfortunate fools did this to me long enough, and it annoyed me enough, I would just take them out, or at least down a few notches.

There is a warning mechanism via dialog in the diplomacy screens for this very thing (“Stop sending your zealots into my territory” or something like that).

I would always give at least one or two warnings, and if they decided to ignore? I would start plotting their demise.

Lagom Lite wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:26 am
- The Loyalty system (used to be Culture Flipping in previous games) where it's not only very difficult to conquer cities but extremely hard to keep them unless you conquer close by your existing cities. It makes "Age of Sail" style colonization impossible. Invading the Aztects means their cities will just flip back within a few turns even if you have an overwhelming tech advantage. It's fine to an extent but needs to be dialed down.

Is this a higher difficulty thing? I've found this manageable by rushing in a governor, rush buying a monument and one or two other things. But I've never really progressed past difficulty level 4 or 5.

Kraken wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:04 am I was chuffed that I couldn't put apostles on sentry to prevent priestly infiltration.

You were pleased by that? Or did you mean you were miffed...

maybe it chapped is ass?

Also playing now for the first time since before the first DLC asked me for more money, I think the thing I hate most is no WASD directions. Sure I can remap keys but then I'd have to move what's mapped to those keys already.

Max Peck wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 3:24 pm

Kraken wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:04 am I was chuffed that I couldn't put apostles on sentry to prevent priestly infiltration.

You were pleased by that? Or did you mean you were miffed...

Yeah, that.

El Guapo wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 12:47 pm

Lagom Lite wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:26 am
- The Loyalty system (used to be Culture Flipping in previous games) where it's not only very difficult to conquer cities but extremely hard to keep them unless you conquer close by your existing cities. It makes "Age of Sail" style colonization impossible. Invading the Aztects means their cities will just flip back within a few turns even if you have an overwhelming tech advantage. It's fine to an extent but needs to be dialed down.

Is this a higher difficulty thing? I've found this manageable by rushing in a governor, rush buying a monument and one or two other things. But I've never really progressed past difficulty level 4 or 5.

Possibly. I play on Diety only, but I don't know if Loyalty scales with difficulty (I don't think so).

Have you tried conquering a city on another continent mid-to-late-game? I can never hold those.

Lagom Lite wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:02 am

El Guapo wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 12:47 pm

Lagom Lite wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:26 am
- The Loyalty system (used to be Culture Flipping in previous games) where it's not only very difficult to conquer cities but extremely hard to keep them unless you conquer close by your existing cities. It makes "Age of Sail" style colonization impossible. Invading the Aztects means their cities will just flip back within a few turns even if you have an overwhelming tech advantage. It's fine to an extent but needs to be dialed down.

Is this a higher difficulty thing? I've found this manageable by rushing in a governor, rush buying a monument and one or two other things. But I've never really progressed past difficulty level 4 or 5.

Possibly. I play on Diety only, but I don't know if Loyalty scales with difficulty (I don't think so).

Have you tried conquering a city on another continent mid-to-late-game? I can never hold those.

I usually play on the default setting which is Warlord I think...and same, I cannot hold a city if it is not close to any of my territories. Too many factors in play to overcome the dissent and the eventual rebellion with Governor and monument.

Lassr wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 7:47 am

Lagom Lite wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 1:02 am

El Guapo wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 12:47 pm

Lagom Lite wrote: Mon Jun 17, 2024 2:26 am
- The Loyalty system (used to be Culture Flipping in previous games) where it's not only very difficult to conquer cities but extremely hard to keep them unless you conquer close by your existing cities. It makes "Age of Sail" style colonization impossible. Invading the Aztects means their cities will just flip back within a few turns even if you have an overwhelming tech advantage. It's fine to an extent but needs to be dialed down.

Is this a higher difficulty thing? I've found this manageable by rushing in a governor, rush buying a monument and one or two other things. But I've never really progressed past difficulty level 4 or 5.

Possibly. I play on Diety only, but I don't know if Loyalty scales with difficulty (I don't think so).

Have you tried conquering a city on another continent mid-to-late-game? I can never hold those.

I usually play on the default setting which is Warlord I think...and same, I cannot hold a city if it is not close to any of my territories. Too many factors in play to overcome the dissent and the eventual rebellion with Governor and monument.

I've been able to hold overseas cities. Usually it's a little touch and go for a few turns but assorted mashing of various culture / loyalty related options gets it done before the city flips. Obviously usually it's the nearest island / continent FWIW. Also I feel like by the time I'm conquering overseas cities I've usually developed a pretty overwhelming military force, so can often conquer a few cities quickly which maybe helps? Also I definitely use the political / culture setting that lets you use a military garrison to help with loyalty. Not sure what else I'm doing that makes it work.

El Guapo wrote: Tue Jun 18, 2024 10:27 amAlso I feel like by the time I'm conquering overseas cities I've usually developed a pretty overwhelming military force, so can often conquer a few cities quickly which maybe helps?

Yep, that's it. You play on too low a difficulty setting for your skill level to feel the effects of Loyalty flipping. I never manage to develop "a pretty overwhelming military force" and "conquer a few cities quickly" on Diety until air power, at which point the game is pretty much over anyway.

A 20 minute gameplay reveal was streamed today - Releasing February 11th, 2025

clicking through - that looks pretty nice, and the civ evolution mechanic looks pretty cool too. (more to watch)

Gwendoline Christie as the new narrator.

Brian wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:53 pm Gwendoline Christie as the new narrator.

I'm definitely excited for that! It all looks pretty great, actually.

Brian wrote: Tue Aug 20, 2024 7:53 pm Gwendoline Christie as the new narrator.

Had to look that person up.

Looks like a major shakeup, potentially one that can alleviate the endgame doldrums.

It also looks like a game that will have a bare-bones release and extract paid upgrades until the end of time.

I look forward to learning more, and I'm pretty sure I'll buy in after the first patch. Civ always needs at least one patch.

Quill18 with a sequence of videos detailing a few of the new major mechanics. They definitely weren’t afraid to shake things up! He focuses on some of the tedium that 7 improves compared to 6. No workers, every building acts like a district, significant changes to combat and moving groups of units, etc. agreed with Kraken that it appears a target rich field for DLC expansions.

Wow. It looks absolutely gorgeous. And her speaking voice is sooooo...nice to listen to.

Wonder what they meant by "narrative events"?

My resolve is...melting. I was disappointed in VI compared to IV & V but I think the only game in the franchise that I haven't tried is the first one.

It does look good... but $70.

I think I'll wait and see what they say regarding the DLC plans.


About 9 months for the first wave of DLCs according to the website, which of course can all be pre-ordered.

*The Right To Rule Collection contains 6 DLCs, all of which will be available on or by September 2025 (subject to change). Each DLC will be delivered automatically in-game on release.

Archinerd wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:46 pm It does look good... but $70.

I think I'll wait and see what they say regarding the DLC plans.


About 9 months for the first wave of DLCs according to the website, which of course can all be pre-ordered.

*The Right To Rule Collection contains 6 DLCs, all of which will be available on or by September 2025 (subject to change). Each DLC will be delivered automatically in-game on release.

If Civ VII is Civ at all, I'll put 1,000+ hours into it. So that's like 7 cents an hour. I'll still wait for the first patch because v. 1.0 is always frustrating.

Did you notice that the eras they're defining match the X's in 4X -- the first is explore, the second is expand, and the third is exploit. I assume exterminate is sprinkled throughout, but if it ramps up in the last act they will have solved the endgame doldrums that have afflicted Civ since the beginning.

Archinerd wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:46 pm It does look good... but $70.

I think I'll wait and see what they say regarding the DLC plans.


About 9 months for the first wave of DLCs according to the website, which of course can all be pre-ordered.

*The Right To Rule Collection contains 6 DLCs, all of which will be available on or by September 2025 (subject to change). Each DLC will be delivered automatically in-game on release.

If history is any guide here, it's not the DLC that makes every modern Civ iteration amazing from mediocre vanilla, it's the expansions. Would be great if they break that tradition here, and have it awesome right out of the gate.

Kraken wrote: Sat Aug 24, 2024 1:29 am

Archinerd wrote: Fri Aug 23, 2024 10:46 pm It does look good... but $70.

I think I'll wait and see what they say regarding the DLC plans.


About 9 months for the first wave of DLCs according to the website, which of course can all be pre-ordered.

*The Right To Rule Collection contains 6 DLCs, all of which will be available on or by September 2025 (subject to change). Each DLC will be delivered automatically in-game on release.

If Civ VII is Civ at all, I'll put 1,000+ hours into it. So that's like 7 cents an hour. I'll still wait for the first patch because v. 1.0 is always frustrating.

Did you notice that the eras they're defining match the X's in 4X -- the first is explore, the second is expand, and the third is exploit. I assume exterminate is sprinkled throughout, but if it ramps up in the last act they will have solved the endgame doldrums that have afflicted Civ since the beginning.

I'll be playing it as soon as early access opens up because of course I preordered the deluxe version. I always get my money's worth. Heck, I'll get my money's worth just listening to Gwendoline Christie narrate.

I look at it a bit differently - instead of considering it as a cost against gaming hours played, the quality of those hours matter more to me, personally. It's why I almost always wait to play a highly anticipated game so that it can cook into something better. If we assume X hours before we burn out on a title, or just want to move on, that means it has a lifespan. I want that "gaming life" to be with the best possible version. And in Civ's case specifically, they don't really shine until a few of the expansions are out.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:53 am I look at it a bit differently - instead of considering it as a cost against gaming hours played, the quality of those hours matter more to me, personally. It's why I almost always wait to play a highly anticipated game so that it can cook into something better. If we assume X hours before we burn out on a title, or just want to move on, that means it has a lifespan. I want that "gaming life" to be with the best possible version. And in Civ's case specifically, they don't really shine until a few of the expansions are out.

And that's fair, but it doesn't work that way for me for a strategy game. I've played Civ 6 since launch until now in bursts fairly continuously. Where I have only played a story heavy game like Cyberpunk through twice all the way through, historically I have not burned out on any Civ game over the long run. I may dump a hundred hours into it over a few months and then shelve it for awhile, but I come back to it frequently. And my lifespan seems to basically until the next version releases.

Carpet_pissr wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 11:53 am I look at it a bit differently - instead of considering it as a cost against gaming hours played, the quality of those hours matter more to me, personally. It's why I almost always wait to play a highly anticipated game so that it can cook into something better. If we assume X hours before we burn out on a title, or just want to move on, that means it has a lifespan. I want that "gaming life" to be with the best possible version. And in Civ's case specifically, they don't really shine until a few of the expansions are out.

I think this is an excellent point and one I ought to really be following more, at least for Civ.

I love being part of the conversations about how a big AAA title should improve, so I’m happy to be a day one (or in this case, a day minus five) player.

I got myself caught up in a Reddit discussion where a request was made about how to get early access to the game because the poster’s father has pancreatic cancer and won’t be there for a February release. One of the frequently posting Firaxis posters responded with “send me a private message”. I got caught up with the emotions and now I’m on the Founders Edition path.

It wouldn't be the first time Firaxis has done something like that.

Firaxis pulled out all the stops to let a dying fan play Midnight Suns

Marvel's Midnight Suns released last Friday, but one fan got his hands on it more than a year before the rest of us. A report from GI.biz highlights the story of Luke Wiltshire, a terminal cancer sufferer in the UK, and the lengths that Firaxis went to in order to get a working build of Midnight Suns into his hands before he died.

Easy to support a company that supports its customers like that.

The Meal wrote: Mon Aug 26, 2024 4:40 pm Easy to support a company that supports its customers like that.

For sure.

Perhaps due to the years that I worked in QA, I don't like playing a broken or incomplete game. One would have to wait years for the expansions that make any Civ game complete, but they generally patch the broken within a few weeks or months. I'll wait for that first patch.

Good post from Ed Beach about the why and the how of Ages. At first I was dismayed at the interruption of continuity, but this seems like a good effort to keep the game fresh and competitive from beginning to end.

Kraken wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:27 pm Good post from Ed Beach about the why and the how of Ages. At first I was dismayed at the interruption of continuity, but this seems like a good effort to keep the game fresh and competitive from beginning to end.

Not explicitly stated, but implied a few times, is that with addressing early game snowballing and creating Age transition checkpoints, the AI has a lot more intermediate targets to aim for and should hold its own throughout the entire game.

The Meal wrote: Sun Sep 15, 2024 3:02 pm

Kraken wrote: Sat Sep 14, 2024 11:27 pm Good post from Ed Beach about the why and the how of Ages. At first I was dismayed at the interruption of continuity, but this seems like a good effort to keep the game fresh and competitive from beginning to end.

Not explicitly stated, but implied a few times, is that with addressing early game snowballing and creating Age transition checkpoints, the AI has a lot more intermediate targets to aim for and should hold its own throughout the entire game.

...at least until the expansions and DLCs start mounting up. Firaxis has a lousy history of teaching their AI about game enhancements.

Something that got me about Civ 6 was that you couldn’t name your own empire which you could do all the way to Civ 5. That wasn’t something I could get past.

Not a day one for me because I’m tired of being nickel and dimed on dlc and then having that prominently displayed whenever I log in that I’m missing it (looking at you Paradox!).

Given there are lots of civilisations, wonders and skins behind paywalls here I don’t hold out much hope.

Released today:

Sad - the first one that won't run on my machine (Core I5-6600 with GTX-970). Guess it's time to upgrade! (Well, next year, once Windows 10 is no longer supported.)

There are always holiday deals at Cyberpower.

I'm probably still good (i7-9700KF, RTX 2080S). Going by relative CPU benchmarks, that puts me right about the recommended specs.