World of Darkness-Kine Strikes Back-Game Over-Kindred Win

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:33 pm

Newcastle wrote:My only qualm about the game is the siring role. that is a huge boon for the vampires. POtentially 4 vamps. It's not bad if there are 15+ people, or more people. but it heavily ramps the game in favor of the vamps.

Generally the 3 strikes and your out rule works pretty well. As long as the village is allowed to miss twice and have the third miss be game over it works fine. The protector role tends to change this.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:40 pm

This is very different from the other games I have participated in. Can someone please elaborate on this rule before the game starts?

The Elder Brujah has the power to sire a childe ( Turn any Human into a Childer of Caine. If this power is used the vampire will not have a kill that night. If the mage is turned the power dies with him. Can PM at anytime

What is a Childer of Caine?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:43 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:This is very different from the other games I have participated in. Can someone please elaborate on this rule before the game starts?

The Elder Brujah has the power to sire a childe ( Turn any Human into a Childer of Caine. If this power is used the vampire will not have a kill that night. If the mage is turned the power dies with him. Can PM at anytime
What is a Childer of Caine?

Basically he can (typically on night 1) sire another vamp rather than kill someone. So if you were not a vamp and they sired you, you would join the vampire team and be able to communicate with the other vamps.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 4:48 pm

Clarification. The game starts with 2 vampires the Elder and Lesser Brujah. The Elder can sire another vampire if he chooses. That vampire is the Childer of Caine and will have no powers

Need to do a few things so roles won't be done til I get home this evening. Sorry for the delay, but work is getting into the way

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:15 pm

Vamp vamp bo bamp
Banana fana fo famp
Fe fi fo mamp
Vamp

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:26 pm

tru1cy wrote:Clarification. The game starts with 2 vampires the Elder and Lesser Brujah. The Elder can sire another vampire if he chooses. That vampire is the Childer of Caine and will have no powers

Need to do a few things so roles won't be done til I get home this evening. Sorry for the delay, but work is getting into the way

Woohoo! I can leave early then!

Later!

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:54 pm

Austin wrote:
tru1cy wrote:Clarification. The game starts with 2 vampires the Elder and Lesser Brujah. The Elder can sire another vampire if he chooses. That vampire is the Childer of Caine and will have no powers

Need to do a few things so roles won't be done til I get home this evening. Sorry for the delay, but work is getting into the way
Woohoo! I can leave early then! Later!

Roles have been assigned. If you didn't recieve a PM then you are a Kine.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 5:59 pm

It is now Night

You have found yourself imprisoned in a house and have been told that two possibly three vampires run among you. YEach day you must stake or behead someone.

Specials send me your PM

Talking is allowed at night

Sorry for the quick write up

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:04 pm

What does YEach mean? I couldn't find it in the dictionary?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:12 pm

tru1cy wrote:If you didn't recieve a PM then you are a Kine.

Let's agree in advance not to go meta with PMs and non-receipt of PMs, mmkay?

Genghis · Post by **Genghis** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:14 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
tru1cy wrote:If you didn't recieve a PM then you are a Kine.
Let's agree in advance not to go meta with PMs and non-receipt of PMs, mmkay?

But then what do we have to go on? The ramblings of Chaosraven?

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:23 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
tru1cy wrote:If you didn't recieve a PM then you are a Kine.
Let's agree in advance not to go meta with PMs and non-receipt of PMs, mmkay?

My PM didn't say anything about disallowing this...never mind.

I agree.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 6:56 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
tru1cy wrote:If you didn't recieve a PM then you are a Kine.
Let's agree in advance not to go meta with PMs and non-receipt of PMs, mmkay?

Yeah, I was running out from work. Indicating if you did or didnot receive a PM is expressly forbidden

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:01 pm

Austin wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:This is very different from the other games I have participated in. Can someone please elaborate on this rule before the game starts?

The Elder Brujah has the power to sire a childe ( Turn any Human into a Childer of Caine. If this power is used the vampire will not have a kill that night. If the mage is turned the power dies with him. Can PM at anytime
What is a Childer of Caine?
Basically he can (typically on night 1) sire another vamp rather than kill someone. So if you were not a vamp and they sired you, you would join the vampire team and be able to communicate with the other vamps.

Thanks for the clarification, Austin.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:21 pm

I have nothing better to do and can send everyone a PM saying "Hey knucklehead, the game has started" if you want. Although I would have to change the name to dumba** for CR.

BTW CR, Happy Birthday, dumba**

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 7:57 pm

Just checking in here.
(My work scene for the last few weeks has been pretty nuts. We're implimenting Oracle Application and, err - it's a beast.)

So.. err - yeah, now I need to go re-read the rules - this is a whole new set for me too.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:04 pm

Hello Unagi. What are you wearing?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:08 pm

Unagi wrote:JWe're implimenting Oracle Application and, err - it's a beast.

The 10g App Server?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:09 pm

Austin wrote:Hello Unagi. What are you wearing?

ASL?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:20 pm

OK, I still have a few questions.
These are all just honest questions to help me get a handle of the rules and is not meant to communicate a thing to anyone.

tru1cy wrote:Elder Brujah - The Elder Brujah has the power to sire a childe ( Turn any Human into a Childer of Caine. If this power is used the vampire will not have a kill that night. If the mage is turned the power dies with him. Can PM at anytime

At first I read this to mean that turning the mage meant the Elder Brujah lost the power to sire a childe. But now I think that is not what is meant by this.
Is this correct: The Elder can only sire 1 person period. If the mage get's sired he is simply not a Mage any longer.

tru1cy wrote:Lesser Brujah- Can berzerk and kill a random player. Can PM at anytime

I assume we are not told who did the berzerking? Or are we?

Same question with the Priest, is this just a PM to tru1cy and he comes into the thread and announces that the Priest just killed PLAYER A ?

truc1cy wrote:Mage- Each night can ask one question as to true nature of any living player. Can choose to pm instead of scan, but this will only be during that night cycle he chooses to PM.

Is this saying that the Mage's PM's are only during the Night Cycle? That can't be right, is it?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:33 pm

Unagi wrote:
tru1cy wrote:If the mage is turned the power dies with him. Can PM at anytime
Is this correct: The Elder can only sire 1 person period. If the mage get's sired he is simply not a Mage any longer.

Yes, that's correct. "the power" refers to the Mage's power. tru1cy introduced that detail in the last game so that the Mage wouldn't end up both empowered and evil (which would obviously be too great an imbalance).

Elder B can choose to convert a Kine rather than kill one. Elder B can do this exactly 0 or 1 times. If the convert has powers, the convert forfeits those powers upon conversion.

Unagi wrote:
tru1cy wrote:Lesser Brujah- Can berzerk and kill a random player. Can PM at anytime
I assume we are not told who did the berzerking? Or are we?

Berserking occurs when the berserker is staked/beheaded. For example, everyone votes to lynch Bubba and Bubba is the Lesser B. As he dies, a random Kine will be chosen to die-by-berserkification at that time.

So yes, everyone will know who berserked. It's a public phenom.

Unagi wrote:Same question with the Priest, is this just a PM to tru1cy and he comes into the thread and announces that the Priest just killed PLAYER A ?

Dunno.

Unagi wrote:
tru1cy wrote:Mage- Each night can ask one question as to true nature of any living player. Can choose to pm instead of scan, but this will only be during that night cycle he chooses to PM.
Is this saying that the Mage's PM's are only during the Night Cycle? That can't be right, is it?

Sounds like that's what it means, though maybe "that night cycle" means that night and the following day. tru1cy?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:48 pm

Last time (iirc) he did said only during the night cycle but was intending to allow the Mage to determine the end of the night so that they (the Mage and the PM target) had time to finish their conversation. I assumed it was the same this time around.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:51 pm

Remus West wrote:Last time (iirc) he did said only during the night cycle but was intending to allow the Mage to determine the end of the night so that they (the Mage and the PM target) had time to finish their conversation. I assumed it was the same this time around.

I had forgotten that nuance. You may be right. Let the ringbearer decide!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:52 pm

BTW, I am of the opinion that PMing a player is pretty useless but the Priest being in this game may make it possible although still pretty useless IMO. Folks bring up the idea of having the Seer PM every game as proof that he is the Seer but the risk of the target being killed and thus negating things is huge here AND if the Priest tries to protect a false Mage we lose the Priest. Something to consider should someone come forward in an awkward spot as the Mage and ask to be allowed to PM another player as proof of his maginess. Austin.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:55 pm

Just read my above post and I did not say it well. What I was trying to say is that folks may be more inclined to allow for the PM proof thing due to there being a protector role in this game but I think that is a bad idea as it sets the Priest up to be killed due to protecting a vamp. Hopefully it won't come up but it seems to every game so we need to be careful.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 8:56 pm

Remus West wrote:Last time (iirc) he did said only during the night cycle but was intending to allow the Mage to determine the end of the night so that they (the Mage and the PM target) had time to finish their conversation. I assumed it was the same this time around.

Correct! They can PM at night cycle only and when the mage is done he can let me know or I will impose a time limit if they take to long. Once they are done PMing I will advance to day turn and no more PMing

If the priest intends to stake during the day he must announce it in the thread. It will expose him once he uses the power

At first I read this to mean that turning the mage meant the Elder Brujah lost the power to sire a childe. But now I think that is not what is meant by this.
Is this correct: The Elder can only sire 1 person period. If the mage get's sired he is simply not a Mage any longer.

Correct. If the mage is sired his power is lost .

If I wanted to kill a vampire during the day, do I announce that to you through PM or in the forum thread?

Also, what are the ramification if I am wrong?

If you kill a human during the day cycle it will count as a kill. The village will still have to vote. Staking must be done prior to finalizing a vote for a lynching

Keep in mind this is the only way of stopping a bezerking vamp

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:01 pm

tru1cy wrote:
At first I read this to mean that turning the mage meant the Elder Brujah lost the power to sire a childe. But now I think that is not what is meant by this.
Is this correct: The Elder can only sire 1 person period. If the mage get's sired he is simply not a Mage any longer.
Correct. If the mage is sired his power is lost .

Thats kind of redundant since you removed his ability to pass the power anyway. He gets converted and they get to know the Mage is out of the way though so thats a huge bonus for the vamps.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:04 pm

Remus West wrote:
tru1cy wrote:
At first I read this to mean that turning the mage meant the Elder Brujah lost the power to sire a childe. But now I think that is not what is meant by this.
Is this correct: The Elder can only sire 1 person period. If the mage get's sired he is simply not a Mage any longer.
Correct. If the mage is sired his power is lost .
Thats kind of redundant since you removed his ability to pass the power anyway. He gets converted and they get to know the Mage is out of the way though so thats a huge bonus for the vamps.

so you think I should just let the power transfer? I'm open to this, but this will be the only way the power will move

Rules update to let the mage power transfer if the elder brujah turns him

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:20 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:
Unagi wrote:JWe're implimenting Oracle Application and, err - it's a beast.
The 10g App Server?

I was about to say yes, but actually no - I think it's 11i (I can't keep all the different versions (db vs. apps vs. Discoverer, etc) straight)

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:22 pm

I think it should go this way:

The Mage may do one of these: See, PM, or Transfer.
Transfer is a one-time deal that only the original Mage can do.
The Mage loses his powers-- all of them-- if converted.
Anything the Mage was trying to do on the night he's converted is canceled. This means that a transfer on the night of conversion will fail.

What do you think?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:23 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:I think it should go this way:

The Mage may do one of these: See, PM, or Transfer.

Transfer is a one-time deal that only the original Mage can do.

The Mage loses his powers-- all of them-- if converted.

Anything the Mage was trying to do on the night he's converted is canceled. This means that a transfer on the night of conversion will fail.
What do you think?

I think that would be a good way to go.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:26 pm

Oh, one thing though, I was just rereading Grund's statement. The PMing should not get cut short due to conversion as that would blow the Mage's cover as a converted. Well, except that the Mage might not respond and run up against the time limit anyway. I guess if I were the Mage it would blow my cover since I babble endlessly but not if its someone like pr0ner.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:29 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:I think it should go this way:

The Mage may do one of these: See, PM, or Transfer.

Transfer is a one-time deal that only the original Mage can do.

The Mage loses his powers-- all of them-- if converted.

Anything the Mage was trying to do on the night he's converted is canceled. This means that a transfer on the night of conversion will fail.
What do you think?

Sounds good to me.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:30 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:I think it should go this way:

The Mage may do one of these: See, PM, or Transfer.

Transfer is a one-time deal that only the original Mage can do.

The Mage loses his powers-- all of them-- if converted.

Anything the Mage was trying to do on the night he's converted is canceled. This means that a transfer on the night of conversion will fail.
What do you think?

Err, I suppose I am OK with anything the vets find balanced. I think you basically re-added the 'transfer' ability (and clarified the actions surrounding a mage-convert).

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:32 pm

Remus West wrote:Oh, one thing though, I was just rereading Grund's statement. The PMing should not get cut short due to conversion as that would blow the Mage's cover as a converted. Well, except that the Mage might not respond and run up against the time limit anyway. I guess if I were the Mage it would blow my cover since I babble endlessly but not if its someone like pr0ner.

Hmm , that does sound like a bit of a problem there.
Would it be bad to say the "the coversion" is actually the very very very first thing to occur in the morning?

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:37 pm

*** scratch this-- too complicated ***

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:44 pm

... and also - with that order of events, the Mage that scan's a 'Kine' won't know if he was converted later that night.
Ouchers.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:49 pm

Unagi wrote:Hmm , that does sound like a bit of a problem there.
Would it be bad to say the "the coversion" is actually the very very very first thing to occur in the morning?

Good solution!

So then:

The Mage may do one of these: See, PM, or Transfer.
Transfer is a one-time deal that only the original Mage can do.
The Mage loses his powers-- all of them-- if converted.
Nothing the Mage was trying to do on the night he's converted is canceled. This means that a transfer on the night of conversion will succeed.

AND

The order of events is

Mage scan or pm or transfer power
Priest protects
Vampire kill/make a childer

Much simpler, for tru1cy and everyone else.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:04 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:*** scratch this-- too complicated ***

Try not to edit your posts Grund.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Tue Nov 13, 2007 10:06 pm

tru1cy: Are you OK with the change from Anything to Nothing? I think it'll make life simpler for you.

Tools:

Austin
Chaosraven
Genghis
Grundbegriff
Kreagor
Lassr
Newcastle
pr0ner
Remus West
Scoop20906
triggercut
Unagi

Elder Brujah
Lesser Brujah
Mage (Childe?)
Priest (Childe?)
Kine01 (Childe?)
Kine02 (Childe?)
Kine03 (Childe?)
Kine04 (Childe?)
Kine05 (Childe?)
Kine06 (Childe?)
Kine07 (Childe?)
Kine08 (Childe?)