Prague - (Game Thread) GAME ON!!!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:55 am

Scoop20906 wrote:Hey Stess. I was 5 feet (on the sideline) from Welker this weekend at the Redskins game during warm ups. Guy is short and intense.

I know, right? I saw him in Foxboro in 2009. I am at the height and weight they list him in the media guide. I see what he does and all I can think is "That guy is nuts!!"

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 8:24 am

If you need me, reach me at the Prague forum during work hours!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:02 pm

We're still waiting for one player to pick up the PM containing his role assignment....

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Thu Dec 15, 2011 11:08 pm

I don't know what the holdup is, but if anyone lurking would like to play in place of the straggler, I'd be perfectly willing to make a swap Right Now.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:05 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:I don't know what the holdup is, but if anyone lurking would like to play in place of the straggler, I'd be perfectly willing to make a swap Right Now.

stessier's PM said if I didn't play he wouldn't like me anymore...I wanna be loved. SO I guess I'm in, now to figure out what the hell I'm doing.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 12:24 pm

After quadruple checking, I am 75% sure I am supposed to post this.

Lassr wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:I don't know what the holdup is, but if anyone lurking would like to play in place of the straggler, I'd be perfectly willing to make a swap Right Now.
stessier's PM said if I didn't play he wouldn't like me anymore...I wanna be loved. SO I guess I'm in, now to figure out what the hell I'm doing.

Grund says: if the other guy hasn't picked up the ball by the end of my workday (around 4:30pm), you're in!

Also, please post this sample solution:

Grundbegriff for the OO Prague thread wrote: There is exactly one solution to this game. A solution consists of a set of five statements. A solution looks like this:
Code: Select all
Algeria has 1, is hyper, and intends to puke.
Bolivia has 2, is relaxed, and intends to sleep.
Colombia has 3, is antsy, and intends to misbehave.
Djibouti has 4, is mellow, and intends to try again.
Ecuador has 5, is perturbed, and intends to seek vengeance.
Please note: clues may come in all shapes and sizes. Some may be short, some long, some simple, some complex, some affirmative, some negative, some comparative.
Also note: Each solution factor is used only once. For example, it is not possible for both Algeria and Ecuador to be hyper.
Finally, note that if a Handler submits an incorrect Solution and his team is punished, the clue exposed will be one of the clues given to the Handler or his non-Mole agents; KIM's original clues will not be exposed through this mechanism.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:51 pm

Lassr wrote:
Grundbegriff wrote:I don't know what the holdup is, but if anyone lurking would like to play in place of the straggler, I'd be perfectly willing to make a swap Right Now.
stessier's PM said if I didn't play he wouldn't like me anymore...I wanna be loved. SO I guess I'm in, now to figure out what the hell I'm doing.

You're in.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 1:54 pm

This is actually quite beautiful, because we have two stragglers -- one who can no longer play the game, and one who picked up his role but never logged in at the other forum. But that one is now ready, too.

So I'll add both to the forums at the same time, and that way there'll still be some confusion about who's who over there!

No, this isn't a fake-out or cover. It's true!

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:15 pm

You've seen the sights and sounds of Prague during these three eighteen days of orientation, and now you're ready to get down to business.

HQ is starting to pressure you with vague threats. You don't like the people you've been assigned to work with. And you think you're being followed.

Central Asia is descending into chaos. You're confident that you're on the right side of the global equation, and you're determined to figure out just what the major players are up to before the whole powder keg blows and ushers in a third world war.

The city awaits, and it's crawling with spies. The lives of your colleagues hang in the balance.

Do your job.

Deadline for the First Interrogation: 9pm EST, Wednesday, 21 December 2011.
Agents: Whom will you interrogate?
Handlers: Will you propose a Solution?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 4:30 pm

Interrogate Qantaga

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 5:12 pm

Grundbegriff wrote:You've seen the sights and sounds of Prague during these three eighteen days of orientation

shieLazz79 · Post by **shieLazz79** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 9:52 pm

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Fri Dec 16, 2011 10:07 pm

I could feel my brain screaming while trying to understand this game.

Should say I understand it but have no idea how to proceed.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:35 pm

why not

Interrogate Qantaga

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:43 pm

Aggregate vote history:
stessier to interrogate Qantaga(1)
Lassr to interrogate Qantaga(2)

Individual vote history:
stessier: to interrogate Qantaga
Lassr: to interrogate Qantaga

Currently Targeted:
Qantaga(2): stessier, Lassr

Majority: 6/10
No vote registered: bb2112, Chaosraven, El Guapo, Newcastle, Qantaga, Remus West, Scoop20906, Unagi

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:47 pm

Me?

Everyone knows that stessier's clues will be much more thoroughly researched than mine.

Interrogate stessier

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 9:58 pm

Qantaga wrote:Me?

Everyone knows that stessier's clues will be much more thoroughly researched than mine.

Interrogate stessier

Perhaps, but what are the chances I'll be able to figure out what to do with it? You, on the other hand Mr. Logic should not be left alone with your clues.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sat Dec 17, 2011 11:21 pm

Deadline bumped to next Wednesday to give people a chance to get the hang of it.

Note: this doesn't mean you must wait until then. Feel free to vote!

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:46 pm

Lassr wrote:I could feel my brain screaming while trying to understand this game.

Should say I understand it but have no idea how to proceed.

I feel the same way as well which is why I've mostly lurked but we do need to do something.

interrogate qantaga

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Sun Dec 18, 2011 6:51 pm

Aggregate vote history:
stessier to interrogate Qantaga(1)
Lassr to interrogate Qantaga(2)
Qantaga to interrogate stessier(1)
Scoop20906 to interrogate Qantaga(3)

Individual vote history:
stessier: to interrogate Qantaga
Lassr: to interrogate Qantaga
Qantaga: to interrogate stessier
Scoop20906: to interrogate Qantaga

Currently Targeted:
Qantaga(2): stessier, Lassr, Scoop20906
stessier(1): Qantaga

Majority: 6/10
No vote registered: bb2112, Chaosraven, El Guapo, Newcastle, Remus West, Unagi

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:04 pm

Clarifications:

Q: When is an agent "tortured"?
A:
An agent is tortured when one of the following occurs:
(a) it is his third interrogation
(b) it is his second interrogation and a majority votes for torture

Q: What happens when an agent is tortured?
A:
If an agent is tortured, one of two things will happen
(a) If the agent IS NOT a member of KIM, the agent dies.
(b) if the agent IS a member of KIM, the agent does not die but is exposed, evicted silently from his cover forum, and rendered ineligible for further interrogation. The Moderator reveals the agent's two crucial facts to the OO forum, which is how everyone will know he was a KIM agent. The Moderator will not reveal which team that KIM agent had infiltrated; it's up to the two large teams to figure that out.

Q: When may KIM agents submit a Solution?
A:
KIM agents may only submit a Solution if the following conditions apply:
(a) Turtleneck has moved from his cover forum to the Charles Bridge
(b) Cardigan has moved from his cover forum to the Charles Bridge

Q: When will an agent die?
A:
A KIM agent cannot die.
A non-KIM agent will die if tortured.

Q: How may a KIM agent lose his cover (i.e., leave his cover forum)?
A:
There are two ways this may occur: voluntarily and involuntarily.
Voluntarily: He does this as a night action in place of his scan. Nothing is announced to the OO Forum, and nothing is revealed about his secrets. His cover team is not notified. His KIM counterpart is not notified.
Involuntarily: This happens during the day when he's tortured. He loses his scan. His two genuine crucial facts are revealed by the Moderator, linking his OOname to his KIM status. His cover team is not notified. His KIM counterpart learns with everyone else that the exposed mole is headed for the Drop Point under the Charles Bridge.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:21 pm

Haven't yet processed the new rules yet - hopefully do that tonight. One question: on the second/third time an agent is tortured, per Grund's Q&A above, they die / are revealed as KIM. Does the interrogation need to be sequential? I.e. if the interrogation for the first three days went Qantaga --> stessier --> Qantaga (majority vote), would Qantaga die, or would he need to be interrogated twice in a row? I'm assuming that it does not need to be sequential, but want to confirm.

Second, I guess our main goals in picking an interrogation target are to get facts and to root out KIM. In terms of getting facts our target may as well be random, since everyone has facts to be divulged (not yet sure if the 'hardened' stuff has been done away with, but in any event anyone could be hardened). In terms of rooting out KIM, does it make sense to vote for the silent?

Let's say... Newcastle

for now. I saw him reading Spy vs. Spy the other day.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:30 pm

El Guapo wrote:One question: on the second/third time an agent is tortured, per Grund's Q&A above, they die / are revealed as KIM. Does the interrogation need to be sequential? ...I'm assuming that it does not need to be sequential, but want to confirm.

Your assumption is correct. The interrogations are incremented absolutely (i.e., not relative to skips).

Non-KIM: I/I/I votes: (1) a secret is revealed; (2) the other secret is revealed; (3) the non-Kim dies.
KIM: I/I/I votes: (1) a lie or secret is revealed; (2) the other lie or secret is revealed; (3) the Kim is exposed.
Non-KIM: I/T votes: (1) a secret is revealed; (2) the other secret is revealed and the non-Kim dies.
KIM: I/T votes: (1) a lie or secret is revealed; (2) the Kim is exposed.

Second, I guess our main goals in picking an interrogation target are to get facts and to root out KIM. In terms of getting facts our target may as well be random, since everyone has facts to be divulged (not yet sure if the 'hardened' stuff has been done away with, but in any event anyone could be hardened).

Under the current rules, only KIM are hardened and only KIM may lie.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 3:47 pm

Aggregate vote history:
stessier to interrogate Qantaga(1)
Lassr to interrogate Qantaga(2)
Qantaga to interrogate stessier(1)
Scoop20906 to interrogate Qantaga(3)
El Guapo to interrogate Newcastle(1)

Individual vote history:
stessier: to interrogate Qantaga
Lassr: to interrogate Qantaga
Qantaga: to interrogate stessier
Scoop20906: to interrogate Qantaga
El Guapo: interrogate Newcastle

Currently Targeted:
Qantaga(2): stessier, Lassr, Scoop20906
stessier(1): Qantaga
Newcastle(1): El Guapo

Majority: 6/10
No vote registered: bb2112, Chaosraven, Newcastle, Remus West, Unagi

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:15 pm

Interrogate Chaosraven

because he is not trustworthy even if he might be on my team.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 4:58 pm

I wanna question Scoop

because he feeds everyone misinformation even if he isn't a mole.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 6:34 pm

Aggregate vote history:
stessier to interrogate Qantaga(1)
Lassr to interrogate Qantaga(2)
Qantaga to interrogate stessier(1)
Scoop20906 to interrogate Qantaga(3)
El Guapo to interrogate Newcastle(1)
Remus West to interrogate Chaosraven(1)
Unagi to interrogate Scoop20906(1)

Individual vote history:
stessier: to interrogate Qantaga
Lassr: to interrogate Qantaga
Qantaga: to interrogate stessier
Scoop20906: to interrogate Qantaga
El Guapo: interrogate Newcastle
Remus West: interrogate Chaosraven
Unagi: interrogate Scoop20906

Currently Targeted:
syntax: soandsoistargeted(withthismanyvotes): bythesepeople
Qantaga(3): stessier, Lassr, Scoop20906
stessier(1): Qantaga
Newcastle(1): El Guapo
Chaosraven(1): Remus West
Scoop20906(1): Unagi

Majority: 6/10
No vote registered: bb2112, Chaosraven, Newcastle

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:18 pm

I do believe that Q should be at 3 votes.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 7:57 pm

interrogate qantaga

Well let's see what happens...

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 8:13 pm

Aggregate vote history:
stessier to interrogate Qantaga(1)
Lassr to interrogate Qantaga(2)
Qantaga to interrogate stessier(1)
Scoop20906 to interrogate Qantaga(3)
El Guapo to interrogate Newcastle(1)
Remus West to interrogate Chaosraven(1)
Unagi to interrogate Scoop20906(1)
bb2112 to interrogate Qantaga(4)

Individual vote history:
stessier: to interrogate Qantaga
Lassr: to interrogate Qantaga
Qantaga: to interrogate stessier
Scoop20906: to interrogate Qantaga
El Guapo: interrogate Newcastle
Remus West: interrogate Chaosraven
Unagi: interrogate Scoop20906
bb2112: interrogate Qantaga

Currently Targeted:
syntax: soandsoistargeted(withthismanyvotes): bythesepeople
Qantaga(4): stessier, Lassr, Scoop20906, bb2112
stessier(1): Qantaga
Newcastle(1): El Guapo
Chaosraven(1): Remus West
Scoop20906(1): Unagi

Majority: 6/10
No vote registered: Chaosraven, Newcastle

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Dec 19, 2011 9:09 pm

Unagi wrote:I wanna question Scoop

because he feeds everyone misinformation even if he isn't a mole.

Ha ha!

I'd love to start my normal blather but this game is a really different kind of animal. I don't want to expose my secrets or identity until I understand better how to use that information with my team. Really at this point until we can get some scans and someone uncovers a KIM we don't have much to discuss.

I've rolled a couple scenarios around in my head of coordinating the scans and interrogations together between the teams but I think it might out our identities too quickly.

And here is the thing, I don't even know if that is a bad idea. I mean, how much harm would it be for us to announce which team we are on? Unless you are KIM I don't see what hiding that information would hurt? I'm not saying we share secrets but of what use is keeping our affiliation a secret?

Does it really give KIM and the opposing team an advantage?

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 12:53 am

So, those of you voting for me are going to let stess control the game like he tried to do before the revisions?

Ask yourselves who would be most likely to try to control voting. It is highly likely that stess' real name is Turtleneck or Cardigan.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 6:55 am

Qantaga wrote:So, those of you voting for me are going to let stess control the game like he tried to do before the revisions?

Ask yourselves who would be most likely to try to control voting. It is highly likely that stess' real name is Turtleneck or Cardigan.

You don't get this game, do you? Ask yourself who is most likely to be afraid of having their clue exposed - a normal agent - or a KIM agent trying to figure out how to write a fake clue with only his two clues to go on.

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 10:20 am

It seems like you're dissembling. Fake clues would not be difficult. Grund has already said that clues can run the gamut from vague to specific, so a vague bit of mutual exclusivity to your own clues would be rather simplistic. But, you know that already, don't you?

I didn't ask anyone to remove their votes from me. I am cautioning them about your motivations.

I'm not worried about exposing my clues. I'm concerned that you are assuming the role of Gepato.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:10 am

Stessier, is there a particular reason why Qantaga?

Qantaga, I'm not (currently anyways) voting for you. But at the same time, stessier's earlier proposal (pre-rules shift) was perfectly reasonable, and I'm guessing that this time he's just pulled a name out of a hat to get things rolling. I tend to see that more as just being active early than "controlling the game", or what have you. So I don't think it'll lead to just blind following of stessier. He could still be KIM, of course, but we don't yet have a lot to work with on that.

In any event, I'm not yet sure I see a rationale for picking someone other than essentially at random.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:14 am

Scoop20906 wrote:
Unagi wrote:I wanna question Scoop

because he feeds everyone misinformation even if he isn't a mole.
Ha ha!

I'd love to start my normal blather but this game is a really different kind of animal. I don't want to expose my secrets or identity until I understand better how to use that information with my team. Really at this point until we can get some scans and someone uncovers a KIM we don't have much to discuss.

I've rolled a couple scenarios around in my head of coordinating the scans and interrogations together between the teams but I think it might out our identities too quickly.

And here is the thing, I don't even know if that is a bad idea. I mean, how much harm would it be for us to announce which team we are on? Unless you are KIM I don't see what hiding that information would hurt? I'm not saying we share secrets but of what use is keeping our affiliation a secret?

Does it really give KIM and the opposing team an advantage?

It's a good question. It seems like the main way that one (non-KIM) team would get an advantage would be to root out their mole before the other team does, as that would allow them to share all of their clues without fear of KIM getting all of them. Otherwise they both have access to the same public clues from interrogations.

The trick is that, while one might be able to pick up clues as to who is KIM, I don't see how it would be possible to identify which KIM is your mole, so even if you correctly spot a KIM agent you might just wind up outing the other guys' mole.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:22 am

Qantaga wrote:It seems like you're dissembling. Fake clues would not be difficult. Grund has already said that clues can run the gamut from vague to specific, so a vague bit of mutual exclusivity to your own clues would be rather simplistic. But, you know that already, don't you?

I don't know what you mean. Are you suggesting KIM would make a fake clue that essentially led to the correct game resolution? That would be pointless, no?

Any clue they fake has the potential to be found out by someone who has a contradictory clue. If they just reverse their own clue, which might be what you are suggesting, how would they know that clues don't over lap? Perhaps Bubba has a Clue that says Not A, B, and C and KIM has one that says it is D. They can't just say it is Not D, else Bubba will know they are lying.

I'm not worried about exposing my clues.

If you say so.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:23 am

El Guapo wrote:Stessier, is there a particular reason why Qantaga?

The Monkey King with the dartboard suggested it. He has a really beautiful language - if only I can find someone to translate these 75 pages he dictated to me...

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:25 am

stessier wrote:
El Guapo wrote:Stessier, is there a particular reason why Qantaga?
The Monkey King with the dartboard suggested it. He has a really beautiful language - if only I can find someone to translate these 75 pages he dictated to me...

If I could speak the language of rabbits........

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Dec 20, 2011 11:59 am

El Guapo wrote: It seems like the main way that one (non-KIM) team would get an advantage would be to root out their mole before the other team does

that's what I keep coming back to but how? You would need to know your team's OO names and then start interrogating your own team. Pick the wrong one and his clues are public.