Octopus Overlords

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:47 pm My take on this President is no different than any President before.

This is demonstrably not true. As pointed out above, at least two previous presidents since 1976 have reduced the budget deficit while in office.

ALL of them look out for themselves and theirs.

I can think of moments of political bravery for every previous president wherein he took a position that was likely unpopular with his base because he thought it was the right thing to do, with no measurable personal upside. That is not the case for Trump.

So yeah....I take the same attitude. I cant save the world, but I can damn sure protect my little inch of it.
Sometimes the crap they do works out in my favor. Sometimes not. I'm not naive enough to think that I can make a lick of difference. Sue me.
You all can lose sleep over trying to fix shit so everyone is treated equal. How's that been working out for the last forever years?
I'm sure Washington is waiting to hear your thoughts, as they have been for years, through good and bad.
By the people, for the people was thrown out the window a long, long, long, long time ago. They're gonna do what THEY think is right or beneficial or gonna fatten their already bulging pockets.

You are a living, breathing example of why cynicism is fatal to democracy. Congratulations.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:09 pm
You are being naive. This president is doing things beyond the pale

Off the top of my head, the blatant lying about even the smallest of things, and the subsequent victimization of anyone that tries to shine light on these lies is perhaps the most discouraging crime he's guilty of. He's institutionalized lying and made it part of the political fabric in ways that are astonishing to me. That his followers actually find this endearing is both disgusting and infuriating.

Zarathud wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 1:12 pm The "everything is fine for me so meh" attitude is maddening.

It is demonstrably worse for many. We're out of control in the news in so many ways: foreign policy, economic policy, environmental policy, etc. If you can't see the problem, you're not paying attention.

And yet, people vote their pocketbooks (remember "It's the economy, stupid"?). The people who vote are doing reasonably to very well right now, and the people who aren't doing well don't vote. That's why Trump can declare victory in the war on poverty.

Wages are still stagnant -- adjusted for inflation, they actually fell last quarter -- but job security and opportunities are high, and most of us got a trivial bump in spending cash from the Republican tax policy that makes feel a tad bit richer. Laissez le bon temps rouler!

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:09 pmI am not an alarmist. I don't believe Bush was that bad. I don't believe Obama was that good.

Trump is that bad and the party that supports him is worse.

I can certainly vouch for the fact that ND is a bit of a canary in our coal mine. That he is of this opinion says an awful lot more than me being of this opinion.

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:25 pm
And yet, people vote their pocketbooks (remember "It's the economy, stupid"?). The people who vote are doing reasonably to very well right now, and the people who aren't doing well don't vote.

In a bunker, the guy who passes out all the food on day one is popular until day two.

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:47 pm My take on this President is no different than any President before.
ALL of them look out for themselves and theirs.

The bones we are left to pick at will never be enough to please everyone.
So yeah....I take the same attitude. I cant save the world, but I can damn sure protect my little inch of it.
Sometimes the crap they do works out in my favor. Sometimes not. I'm not naive enough to think that I can make a lick of difference. Sue me.
You all can lose sleep over trying to fix shit so everyone is treated equal. How's that been working out for the last forever years?
I'm sure Washington is waiting to hear your thoughts, as they have been for years, through good and bad.
By the people, for the people was thrown out the window a long, long, long, long time ago. They're gonna do what THEY think is right or beneficial or gonna fatten their already bulging pockets.

So the fact that people (including a number of folks here at this very forum) could suffer and/or literally die because of the safety net and medical coverage changes he's proposing is of little consequence because, hey, you've got to take care of your own, right?

Good to see the conservative credo of "I got mine, so fuck you" is still in full effect.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:27 pm

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:09 pmI am not an alarmist. I don't believe Bush was that bad. I don't believe Obama was that good.

Trump is that bad and the party that supports him is worse.

I can certainly vouch for the fact that ND is a bit of a canary in our coal mine. That he is of this opinion says an awful lot more than me being of this opinion.

That such notable hippies as Bill Kristol and George Will, amongst others, are saying to vote Democratic because our democracy is at stake is a similar alarm bell.

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:25 pmWages are still stagnant

I'd like to talk about this, because I've heard this many times before, and I happened to be talking to a relative expert on it the other day (albeit a conservative one), and as soon as I really started looking at the data, I didn't see that.

It just so happens I was on a fact finding mission to find out truth from fiction in a conservative thread that devolved into pictures before I left.

https://www.payscale.com/payscale-index/

Check out the real wage index going back to 2007.

https://www.payscale.com/payscale-index ... ethodology

That was juxtaposed to these

https://tradingeconomics.com/united-sta ... nment-debt

https://www.marketwatch.com/investing/index/spx/charts


Basically looking at three big indicators as numbers and not opinions since 2017 and since the tax shift.

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:28 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:47 pm My take on this President is no different than any President before.
ALL of them look out for themselves and theirs.

The bones we are left to pick at will never be enough to please everyone.
So yeah....I take the same attitude. I cant save the world, but I can damn sure protect my little inch of it.
Sometimes the crap they do works out in my favor. Sometimes not. I'm not naive enough to think that I can make a lick of difference. Sue me.
You all can lose sleep over trying to fix shit so everyone is treated equal. How's that been working out for the last forever years?
I'm sure Washington is waiting to hear your thoughts, as they have been for years, through good and bad.
By the people, for the people was thrown out the window a long, long, long, long time ago. They're gonna do what THEY think is right or beneficial or gonna fatten their already bulging pockets.

So the fact that people (including a number of folks here at this very forum) could suffer and/or literally die because of the safety net and medical coverage changes he's proposing is of little consequence because, hey, you've got to take care of your own, right?

Good to see the conservative credo of "I got mine, so fuck you" is still in full effect.

You prove to me what you've done to directly and indisputably change anything that happens in Washington, and I'll do it. Fair enough?

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 pm You prove to me what you've done to directly and indisputably change anything that happens in Washington, and I'll do it. Fair enough?

That's not how a representative democracy works.

This is how it works. The opinions and the discussion here have gotten YK, LM, and I to avoid voting for any (R) for a long time. I converted my girlfriend. I'm getting my aunt to at least question.

I can't speak for them on forever again, but it's going to be over a decade before I'd ever consider it.

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:52 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 pm You prove to me what you've done to directly and indisputably change anything that happens in Washington, and I'll do it. Fair enough?

That's not how a representative democracy works.

But at the very least opinions here have gotten YK, LM, and I to avoid voting for any (R) for a long time.

I can't speak for them on forever again, but it's going to be over a decade before I'd ever consider it.

Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:52 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 pm You prove to me what you've done to directly and indisputably change anything that happens in Washington, and I'll do it. Fair enough?

That's not how a representative democracy works.

But at the very least opinions here have gotten YK, LM, and I to avoid voting for any (R) for a long time.

I can't speak for them on forever again, but it's going to be over a decade before I'd ever consider it.

Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

At least they haven't resorted to treason.

No worries, Trump will be gone soon and you will need to find someone else to blame for whatever calamity is being anticipated then. Been there done that, again and again and again. I figure we are ahead of the game as Reagan was supposed to have destroyed democracy decades ago.

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

What's the answer, then?

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm At least they haven't resorted to treason.

That's a flip answer, but it really is the crux of the matter.

Trump will go down in history as the worst president we have ever seen.

At best, he's wildly corrupt. At worst, he's treasonous.

Fine. Lone gunman and all that.

However, the Republican party hasn't bothered to stand up to him at all. They are more willing to retire than to do anything about it. They violate their own alleged principles (balanced budgets, free trade, constitutionalism) to line their own pockets and play up to the extremists in their base. Ted Cruz is more willing to defend Alex Jones than a White House pool reporter. Nunes is actively sabotaging a legitimate investigation into a foreign attack on our elections.

Alefroth wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:59 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

What's the answer, then?

That's the rub. I have lost faith in our system as a whole. I had hope that the shitstorm that Trump is causing would shock the system back into shape, but the more time goes by, the more it seems that's unlikely. To me, he's just bringing to light what a vast majority of politicians were and are....crooks who could care less about "us". Color it however you want. The majority of them have been there too long and suck and the good ones are the minority and get drowned out.

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:09 pm

Alefroth wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:59 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

What's the answer, then?

That's the rub. I have lost faith in our system as a whole. I had hope that the shitstorm that Trump is causing would shock the system back into shape, but the more time goes by, the more it seems that's unlikely. To me, he's just bringing to light what a vast majority of politicians were and are....crooks who could care less about "us". Color it however you want. The majority of them have been there too long and suck and the good ones are the minority and get drowned out.

I mean personally, what options are you considering? Sitting it out?

Never. Someone will get my vote. But the "lesser of 2 evils" shit is really wearing thin for me.

stimpy wrote:

Alefroth wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:59 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

What's the answer, then?

That's the rub. I have lost faith in our system as a whole. I had hope that the shitstorm that Trump is causing would shock the system back into shape, but the more time goes by, the more it seems that's unlikely. To me, he's just bringing to light what a vast majority of politicians were and are....crooks who could care less about "us". Color it however you want. The majority of them have been there too long and suck and the good ones are the minority and get drowned out.

Then fucking get off your ass and run for office, or volunteer, or donate more money to targeted local candidates.

Jesus christ. That's exactly how we got into this mess. Republican operatives and corporate interests have spent the last four decades meticulously and tirelessly hammering local and state elections to get gerrmandered districts and judge shops, to sabatoge public education, to drop taxes, break unions, and ignore infrastructure, to hinder ecological protections. That shit didn't happen by accident OR fiat. it was dedication and patience.

Obama won by localized fundraising, the possible/ probablable blue wave is from MASSIVE new voter participation, new candidates of a diverse and dedicated population are racing to stymie the Trumpian and Republican dominance. Particularly this year, establishment hacks are dropping like flies. One side is pushing women, POC, progressive men, a representative array of people with localized agendas and a serious passion. The other side is running pedophiles and Nazis. (kind of unfair, but not untrue)


I haven't done much personally, but I give to candidates of my choice, I write my congress despite their extremism to the other side, have called in the past. VOTE every election. I'd like to beleive I'd be doing more, but this past year has been a MOTHERFUCKER.



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LordMortis, this is the guy I was chatting with (he’s a friend of a friend):

article.

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:52 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 pm You prove to me what you've done to directly and indisputably change anything that happens in Washington, and I'll do it. Fair enough?

That's not how a representative democracy works.

But at the very least opinions here have gotten YK, LM, and I to avoid voting for any (R) for a long time.

I can't speak for them on forever again, but it's going to be over a decade before I'd ever consider it.

Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

The last (D) made sure, for awhile at least, that my wife would always be eligible for health insurance. Ds have also done a pretty good job making sure my family members could marry the partner of their choice, and worked for their ability to adopt, instead of letting kids stay in the system. Those are real, tangible benefits that the (D) side has provided to me and people that I care about.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:37 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:25 pmWages are still stagnant

I'd like to talk about this, because I've heard this many times before, and I happened to be talking to a relative expert on it the other day (albeit a conservative one), and as soon as I really started looking at the data, I didn't see that.

Well, I get my information from the Sanders campaign, so...

It depends on whose wages we're talking about, and over what time period. Incomes are growing comfortably for the top 20%, and for the well-educated. For everyone else, not so much. From WaPo a few weeks ago:

The average hourly wage paid to a key group of American workers has fallen from last year when accounting for inflation, as an economy that appears strong by several measures continues to fail to create bigger paychecks, the federal government said Tuesday.

For workers in “production and nonsupervisory” positions, the value of the average paycheck has declined in the past year. For those workers, average “real wages” — a measure of pay that takes inflation into account — fell from $22.62 in May 2017 to $22.59 in May 2018, the Bureau of Labor Statistics said.

This pool of workers includes those in manufacturing and construction jobs, as well as all “nonsupervisory” workers in service industries such health care or fast food. The group accounts for about four-fifths of the privately employed workers in America, according to BLS.

The result from last quarter (which I believe was a 0.2% decline -- not covered in this link) is being blamed on a spike in oil prices.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:37 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:25 pmWages are still stagnant

I'd like to talk about this, because I've heard this many times before, and I happened to be talking to a relative expert on it the other day (albeit a conservative one), and as soon as I really started looking at the data, I didn't see that.

(linked from WSJ blog)

geezer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:42 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:52 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 pm You prove to me what you've done to directly and indisputably change anything that happens in Washington, and I'll do it. Fair enough?

That's not how a representative democracy works.

But at the very least opinions here have gotten YK, LM, and I to avoid voting for any (R) for a long time.

I can't speak for them on forever again, but it's going to be over a decade before I'd ever consider it.

Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

The last (D) made sure, for awhile at least, that my wife would always be eligible for health insurance. Ds have also done a pretty good job making sure my family members could marry the partner of their choice, and worked for their ability to adopt, instead of letting kids stay in the system. Those are real, tangible benefits that the (D) side has provided to me and people that I care about.

If you follow some of the logic in this thread, it's nothing short of selfish for you to only be worried about you and yours. How dare you!!

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:09 pm

Alefroth wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:59 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

What's the answer, then?

That's the rub. I have lost faith in our system as a whole. I had hope that the shitstorm that Trump is causing would shock the system back into shape, but the more time goes by, the more it seems that's unlikely. To me, he's just bringing to light what a vast majority of politicians were and are....crooks who could care less about "us". Color it however you want. The majority of them have been there too long and suck and the good ones are the minority and get drowned out.

Corruption and graft have existed in our system since the beginning. They are fundamental to human natire. But also since the beginning, we've managed to pay more than lip service to democratic ideals. It's a delicate dance but we do did it better than anyone else.

In choosing the devil you don't know over the devil you do, you expected some kind of miracle. It's a naive and ignorant decision. Naive in thinking that one man could completely change the world for the better (same naivety that Obama rode into office). Ignorant in thinking Trump was that man.

On the wage stuff, I don’t particularly care about the last few years. The assertions I’ve seen in the past that talk about rising inequality and wage stagnation go back to the late 1970s. There’s a few things that I noticed when looking at the data.

First with respect to inequality, it seemed to me that the gap was widening, but only when it came to wages. When it came to compensation, there was a very different story.

In other words, if you only look at wages, and ignore the cost of benefits, you are missing a big piece of data.

Second, even accounting for inflation, wages were up. Not up nearly as much as CEO compensation, but I’m not aware of a rule that says that they have to be equal. I’d like it to be more equal, because I want more money.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:40 pm LordMortis, this is the guy I was chatting with (he’s a friend of a friend):

article.

I'm trying to digest 3 but my brain is fried from 12 hour Monday.
4 is a crock of shit, if we're talking about wages from 1940 until now. Why on earth would I compare what a kerning type setter made in 1940 to what a kerning type setter makes today? What is that gong to tell me?
The rest of the rules sound reasonable, assuming we are looking for something to compare about wages of now to wages of then.

All that said, I'm not smart enough to address the thesis. Inequality is too abstract for me so right away I'm clear on what what we're talking about, as if I'm auditing a college course and walked in to start half way through the semester. I have no frame of reference for what Forbre's is trying to sell me, so I guess I'm not their audience.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 7:35 pm On the wage stuff, I don’t particularly care about the last few years. The assertions I’ve seen in the past that talk about rising inequality and wage stagnation go back to the late 1970s. There’s a few things that I noticed when looking at the data.

First with respect to inequality, it seemed to me that the gap was widening, but only when it came to wages. When it came to compensation, there was a very different story.

In other words, if you only look at wages, and ignore the cost of benefits, you are missing a big piece of data.

Second, even accounting for inflation, wages were up. Not up nearly as much as CEO compensation, but I’m not aware of a rule that says that they have to be equal. I’d like it to be more equal, because I want more money.

But if the cost of benefits are going up while your benefits remain stagnant, you aren't reaping the benefits of your "increased productivity" are you? The benefit providers theoretically are. Now if the quality of your benefits is going up that's a different story. I'd like to see the story you see when it comes to what an hour's work gets the typical worker now, vs what it got them in late 1970s.

But I agree there is more to compensation than wages and there is more to wages than being an hourly worker.

Notice I linked to payscales methods and data collection so you can see what it does (and does not presume) to include.

I also wanted to acknowledge

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:52 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 pm You prove to me what you've done to directly and indisputably change anything that happens in Washington, and I'll do it. Fair enough?

That's not how a representative democracy works.

This is how it works. The opinions and the discussion here have gotten YK, LM, and I to avoid voting for any (R) for a long time. I converted my girlfriend. I'm getting my aunt to at least question.

I can't speak for them on forever again, but it's going to be over a decade before I'd ever consider it.

I do think OO discussions have helped to move me away from voting (R) but I also think the (R)s did a fine job of scaring me away on their own even without OO to prod me along. What happened here was an intensifying of the vision of trends that were already becoming clear. Gerrymandering didn't need OO to make things clear to me but, for instance, McConnell became burned in my mind at the antithesis of anything I want in a civil servant much more quickly due to reading his exposure here than he would have otherwise. But just taking part in discussions had demanded my attention and opened me up and I think that has facilitated turning my back on the (R). With no discussion (20 years of it at that), I'd probably still be very libertarian and see the (D) as the bigger enemy to liberty than the (R) making me more deaf to the notion of adapting.

It's bad enough that the Koch machine is talking about supporting Democrats instead of Republicans over trade, tariffs and spending.

LordMortis wrote:But if the cost of benefits are going up while your benefits remain stagnant, you aren't reaping the benefits of your "increased productivity" are you?

Of course I am. I’m confused.

When I think about my current compensation, I generally think of three components:

1) My salary/wages.
2) 6% of my salary in 401k matching funds.
3) Health Insurance premiums (my boss pays 100% of the premium for my family).

If the cost of health insurance goes up for my boss, for the same plan, and he continues to pay it, of course my compensation has gone up.

Rip wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:57 pm No worries, Trump will be gone soon and you will need to find someone else to blame for whatever calamity is being anticipated then. Been there done that, again and again and again. I figure we are ahead of the game as Reagan was supposed to have destroyed democracy decades ago.

And Obama, and Clinton and yada yada yada. Enough with the “republicans are such victims”. Both sides bitch when their horse isn’t winning. The only difference is that this time, one side can definitively say “he lies...like a lot...here’s proof”. And we’re talking multiple times a day, not just every now and again. And he may very likely be a stooge for Putin.

If a dem wins next time, you can go back to bitching about that and we’ll act like you are now. How’s that?

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:09 pm That's the rub. I have lost faith in our system as a whole. I had hope that the shitstorm that Trump is causing would shock the system back into shape, but the more time goes by, the more it seems that's unlikely.

That whole line of reasoning is such crap. You don’t treat a head wound by hitting the patient again on the other side of the freakin’ head. Then to act surprised when the patient doesn’t get better afterwards?

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:43 pm

LordMortis wrote:But if the cost of benefits are going up while your benefits remain stagnant, you aren't reaping the benefits of your "increased productivity" are you?

Of course I am. I’m confused.

When I think about my current compensation, I generally think of three components:

1) My salary/wages.
2) 6% of my salary in 401k matching funds.
3) Health Insurance premiums (my boss pays 100% of the premium for my family).

If the cost of health insurance goes up for my boss, for the same plan, and he continues to pay it, of course my compensation has gone up.

I'm 98% sure LM mispoke and meant to reverse the question. Still, I'm hard pressed to imagine a scenario where benefit costs go down.

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:43 pm If the cost of health insurance goes up for my boss, for the same plan, and he continues to pay it, of course my compensation has gone up.

But your purchasing power and standard of living have not gone up. If your employer is paying $1,000 a month now for something that used to be $100, you aren't 10x richer, nor are you enjoying 10x better health. At best he saved you from being $1,000 a month poorer -- I don't mean to diminish that, but you didn't get ahead.

stimpy wrote:

geezer wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 6:42 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:55 pm

noxiousdog wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:52 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 pm You prove to me what you've done to directly and indisputably change anything that happens in Washington, and I'll do it. Fair enough?

That's not how a representative democracy works.

But at the very least opinions here have gotten YK, LM, and I to avoid voting for any (R) for a long time.

I can't speak for them on forever again, but it's going to be over a decade before I'd ever consider it.

Because the (D) has done such a bang up job in the past of watching out for us all, regardless of which side or class we fall into......

The last (D) made sure, for awhile at least, that my wife would always be eligible for health insurance. Ds have also done a pretty good job making sure my family members could marry the partner of their choice, and worked for their ability to adopt, instead of letting kids stay in the system. Those are real, tangible benefits that the (D) side has provided to me and people that I care about.

If you follow some of the logic in this thread, it's nothing short of selfish for you to only be worried about you and yours. How dare you!!

self·ish

ˈselfiSH/

adjective

(of a person, action, or motive) lacking consideration for others; concerned chiefly with one's own personal profit or pleasure.

If you decide that selfishness is in your best interest, and that shrinking your tribe to your personal family and maybe friends who look like you, fine. That's a philosophical decision. But it is, by definition, selfish.

The question is would you vote against the welfare of large segments of the population in order to gain financial benefit for your family.

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stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 5:36 pm

Skinypupy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 4:28 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 3:47 pm My take on this President is no different than any President before.
ALL of them look out for themselves and theirs.

The bones we are left to pick at will never be enough to please everyone.
So yeah....I take the same attitude. I cant save the world, but I can damn sure protect my little inch of it.
Sometimes the crap they do works out in my favor. Sometimes not. I'm not naive enough to think that I can make a lick of difference. Sue me.
You all can lose sleep over trying to fix shit so everyone is treated equal. How's that been working out for the last forever years?
I'm sure Washington is waiting to hear your thoughts, as they have been for years, through good and bad.
By the people, for the people was thrown out the window a long, long, long, long time ago. They're gonna do what THEY think is right or beneficial or gonna fatten their already bulging pockets.

So the fact that people (including a number of folks here at this very forum) could suffer and/or literally die because of the safety net and medical coverage changes he's proposing is of little consequence because, hey, you've got to take care of your own, right?

Good to see the conservative credo of "I got mine, so fuck you" is still in full effect.

You prove to me what you've done to directly and indisputably change anything that happens in Washington, and I'll do it. Fair enough?

I’ve had significant influence on the vote of one of the 435 members of the US House, who amongst other accomplishments increased the number of federally-funded medical residencies (necessary for medical students to become doctors and a giant bottleneck in our system) for the first time since the early 1990s, as well as less significant influence on other members of Congress. I’ve had input on the drafting and revision of several pieces of legislation. I drafted some of the earliest messaging in the US House in in support of the Iran Deal.

I have overseen political committees that have been major actors in Federal elections, and helped to elect several current members of the US House. I am on the board of another PAC that will spend upwards of $1 million in support of pro-LGBT candidates for the US House this year. I once glared at Paul Ryan at an elevator such that I’m pretty sure he realized that he was a very bad person.

And I complained enough that they now always have proper sushi, and not just rolls, in the Longworth Cafeteria, thus providing delicious nigiri to at least six American citizens who are visiting the Capitol each day, unless I get down there first, in which case there are only five sets of nigiri left.

Your turn!

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 9:43 pm

LordMortis wrote:But if the cost of benefits are going up while your benefits remain stagnant, you aren't reaping the benefits of your "increased productivity" are you?

Of course I am. I’m confused.

When I think about my current compensation, I generally think of three components:

1) My salary/wages.
2) 6% of my salary in 401k matching funds.
3) Health Insurance premiums (my boss pays 100% of the premium for my family).

If the cost of health insurance goes up for my boss, for the same plan, and he continues to pay it, of course my compensation has gone up.

That may be the case for you, but for an increasing number of American workers, they’ve seen their wages go up so slowly that inflation is making their “gains” completely immaterial, while at the same time they’re losing benefits like health care, or seeing their defined-benefit retirment plans get turned into defined-contribution retirement investment accounts that will almost certainly not provide a livable amount of income when the workers retire.

And for the lowest-paid workers, whose salaries are either at or are closely connected to the minimum wage, things are even grimmer. These workers have never had broad access to health insurance benefits, or retirement plans. And the minimum wage is worth about $3.50 to $4.00 less in today’s dollars than it was in 1970 — that’s $8,000 right out of their pocket and into that of overpaid CEOs and investors.

And that is why you must continue the fight, Fireball.

I've provided pro bono/reduced cost legal counsel for two 501(c)(3) educational organizations officially on the "Tea Party" investigation list. Both were approved after convincing the IRS that the entities satisfied the political activity exceptions. One ensured open candidate forums in a heavily Red State where just getting a Democrat to show up is an accomplishment. The other is involved in Redistricting Reform.

I have helped environmental organizations and community organizations get started. One Muslim sex ed organization is ironically now receiving funding from the Trump DOJ.

I have advocated for my kids with the DOJ and Chicago Public Schools to ensure that her school has a permanently assigned Nurse for the disabled students there (by an agreed order after my diabetic daughter was overdosed on insulin), and provided documentation that likely helped an investigation of the outsourcing of essential nursing services.

My wife has been heavily involved with the Chicago CAPS program, and is well known to the local Alderwoman for her community efforts. I have helped candidates and political supporters save taxes so they can engage in political activity. If I had more time, I'd be going to a few candidate fundraisers at my new law firm (which does significant work for the City of Chicago).

“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.”
― John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jul 30, 2018 10:56 pm But your purchasing power and standard of living have not gone up. If your employer is paying $1,000 a month now for something that used to be $100, you aren't 10x richer, nor are you enjoying 10x better health. At best he saved you from being $1,000 a month poorer -- I don't mean to diminish that, but you didn't get ahead.

I'm not 10x richer. But my compensation has increased by 10x. Standard of living stagnation is a different thing than compensation stagnation.

Fireball wrote: ↑Tue Jul 31, 2018 1:19 amI once glared at Paul Ryan at an elevator such that I’m pretty sure he realized that he was a very bad person.

I don't mean to diminish your other accomplishments, but if I were you, this would go on my headstone as my greatest accomplishment.