Bourbon and Whiskey

[LawBeefaroni]

I mean it has historically been a staple for mixed drinks. Hearing people decry adding a few cubes of ice is kind of funny.

I got the impression he wasn't going to make cocktails. Who was decrying it?

The point was that for a whiskey that is most likely consumed more with cola than neat, the fuss over dilution might be a bit overblown. I get that there are rich, complex bourbons. I have enjoyed several. But for someone just getting their feet wet, training wheels are ok. (How's that for a mixed metaphor?)

No one is saying it's the wrong way, but if that's the experience he's looking for, he might not need to spend $50.

Absolutely true and this is good advice for most whiskey. Of course it's not a steadfast rule. The last time I had a bottle of Booker's, we made juleps. And I'd do it again, dammit!

[noxiousdog]

Absolutely true and this is good advice for most whiskey. Of course it's not a steadfast rule. The last time I had a bottle of Booker's, we made juleps. And I'd do it again, dammit!

It would make a great julep. It's also 120 proof so can withstand some dilution.

[Z-Corn]

I'd rather talk about this tequila OP has been drinking...

[McNutt]

One thing about whiskey is that you never know what people are going to do with it, so if you're providing it, keep the expensive stuff hidden for those that you know aren't going to mix it. I invite all my friends to help themselves to my liquor, but we're going to have words if you grab my expensive stuff and pour it into a glass of Coke. Grrrr. I realize many people do not know that a bottle of Oban 14 costs a lot more than a bottle of Jack Daniels, so it's my responsibility to make sure they don't make that mistake.

[pr0ner]

I invite all my friends to help themselves to my liquor, but we're going to have words if you grab my expensive stuff and pour it into a glass of Coke. Grrrr.

I did hear a story once about someone at a bar ordering Pappy and asking for it to be mixed with coke.

[AWS260]

[msteelers]

I'm not the biggest bourbon fan out there, although it is my go to drink. Sometimes it just tastes like turpentine.

I ended up going to Kentucky back in October to tour some of the Bourbon Trail as part of a bachelor party. We hit Buffalo Trace, Makers Mark, and Woodford Reserve. Prior to that I would need to drink my bourbon with some ice. Preferably a large ice ball or cube, something that doesn't melt too quickly. I've been drinking it neat ever since the trip though, unless I'm mixing it up in an Old Fashioned.

Makers Mark had a cool facility, and a great ambassador program you can sign up for that is free. I've now got a bunch of Maker's Mark business cards with my name on them, and some other cool stuff. The problem is I don't really like Makers Mark.

Buffalo Trace was also really good. They have a ton of different varieties there, including Blantons. Probably the best thing we tasted there was a Bourbon Cream. It's a lot like Irish Cream, but with bourbon... so it's better. I can't find the Buffalo Trace Bourbon Cream back here in Florida. I bought a bottle of other stuff and it's good, but not great.

Woodford Reserve is my go to. I like to have a bottle of that stuff handy at all times. I can enjoy it straight up, and it's cheap enough that I don't mind using it in cocktails.

Also, while in Kentucky we ordered some of the Pappy Van Winkle stuff. We all decided to split the cost of a shot for the bachelor, but the bartender screwed up and poured us two shots. So I got to taste some of it, and I have to say I was not impressed. I think we all ended up liking EH Taylor a lot more.

[McNutt]

The best bourbon I ever had was Col. EH Taylor Tornado edition. This was from barrels that were exposed after a tornado hit the warehouse and blew the roof off. I have no idea if this was marketing BS or not, but it was so damn good. I tried looking for a bottle of it and was unsuccessful. That batch has a strong demand now and looking online I see bottles going for up to $3,000. Crazy, but people will pay a lot for something when they're not making any more of it.

[Xmann]

Ok, on the way home I stopped and bought a bottle of Woodford Reserve Double Oaked.

Before the wife and I have it a shot, I took a look online to read expert opinions on what I should be smelling and tasting. For the most part, I was really off and didn't get much of the flavor profile I had read. However, I did sense vanilla and I did get a hint of that during the after taste. Yet I got no leather, marshmallows, oak, dried dark fruits, etc.

The wife only had a sip and just couldn't do it. She's not keen on anything other than a Dos Equis. Me on the other hand, I really really enjoyed it. I had it neat !?!?!?!?! and I'm glad I did. I've only had for the most part cheap liquor that burns, but this was a different experience and I really enjoyed it.

I really was going for the Four Roses, but naturally my local store was out.

Thank you for the suggestions and I'm thinking this might be a new hobby for me.

[GreenGoo]

I read the posts regarding ice here and that the problem is twofold, in that if it's too cold it numbs the tongue and you lose some of the flavour, as well as if it melts too quickly it dilutes the booze.

Is there any advantage to chilling the entire bottle?

[Xmann]

I'm going to try it chilled the next time and compare my experience.

[EvilHomer3k]

I've been looking for a place to link to The Whiskey Vault. This is basically a marketing channel for Rex and Daniel to make money, but they are really entertaining and they do a great job of providing information. They do all whisk(e)y, but since they are in America they do way more bourbon than they would like. Both are primarily peaty Scotch guys.

I love those guys. They did a top 10 whiskey for beginners and one of the recommendations was Monkey Shoulder. It's a scotch but my wife and I both love it. The thing that they do in that (and other) videos is they say if you like x, this might be a good whickey for you. For example, they said if you like vanilla lattes at Starbucks, this may be your gateway into whiskey. Now, it wasn't the first whiskey I have had and liked but I do like Starbucks (though I prefer caramel macchiattos over vanilla lattes). Anyway, I second the recommendation to watch these guys. They are entertaining if nothing else.

I'm a big proponent of drink it how you like it. I tend to drink it neat or mixed with Coke/Sprite. I can tell the difference between a good whiskey and a bad whiskey in a mixed drink. Those flavors still come through. Turpentine is not a flavor that Coke will kill, no matter how much Coke you use. So even mixed drinks benefit from a decent whiskey.

[noxiousdog]

I met Daniel at Andalusia Whiskey Company. My girlfriend likes to tease me that I have a man crush. I'm not sure about that but he was kind of dreamy. And by dreamy he was a nice guy that took the time to cheerily say hello and pose for a picture.

[McNutt]

One of the side effects of the bourbon craze is that a lot of startups have formed (which is great), but since it takes so long to make a product, a lot of bourbon is being sold that has only been aged for two years or so. I don't feel like bourbon needs to be aged for as long as scotch as 8-year-old bourbons have an insane amount of character. But there is a lot of bourbon on the market that needs to spend more time in a barrel.

I bought two $25 bottles of bourbon yesterday and was perusing the scotch aisle. Every once in awhile I splurge on a nice bottle of scotch. It's hard to do it often though as a mid-level scotch will cost as much as a top-level bourbon.

[msteelers]

I was under the impression that a lot of the startups were buying bourbon from other distilleries and then repackaging it in their bottles until their own product matures.

Fun side note on scotch. Bourbon barrels are only allowed to be used once, so some companies will sell their used barrels to scotch companies.

[LawBeefaroni]

I read the posts regarding ice here and that the problem is twofold, in that if it's too cold it numbs the tongue and you lose some of the flavour, as well as if it melts too quickly it dilutes the booze.

Is there any advantage to chilling the entire bottle?

Not really. If you chill it, it will still stop the whiskey from opening up. Which is fine if that's what you want but it's no different than ice really.


There are some nuances that you can only get from chilling certain whiskeys but that's some advanced stuff out of scope for this thread.


Really the single best rule is that there is no single best rule.

[Jeff V]

I'm going to try it chilled the next time and compare my experience.

I expect it will be less flavorful, just like beer and wine that are over-chilled. I'd suggest aiming for a temperature just below tepid (which I prefer for red wine). The only time I ever freezer-chill booze though is when I want to kill off flavor entirely, like I'm inclined to do with shitty vodka.

[McNutt]

I had heard that too. A lot of whiskies aren't displaying an age statement. A lot of the ones I saw showed 2 years. There's just not enough aged whiskey to meet the current demand.

Most of the scotches use bourbon barrels from the US or sherry casks from Europe. I'm not a big fan of the flavor that the sherry casks impart. Some scotches will switch barrels during the aging process and will receive a sherry finish.

If you want to sink a lot of money, start buying scotch. Unlike bourbon, where there is a common flavor, scotch is all over the place and a scotch from one region will taste NOTHING like a scotch from another region. You might even become one of those weirdos (there are several OOs in this group) that like the heavily peated scotches that taste like an ashtray. Granted, I have two bottles of such scotch, but how anybody can drink that on a daily basis is beyond me.

[Smoove_B]

You might even become one of those weirdos (there are several OOs in this group) that like the heavily peated scotches that taste like an ashtray.

Burning tires! Campfire! Seaweed!

Granted, I have two bottles of such scotch, but how anybody can drink that on a daily basis is beyond me.

Because it's delicious.

[noxiousdog]

You might even become one of those weirdos (there are several OOs in this group) that like the heavily peated scotches that taste like an ashtray.

Burning tires! Campfire! Seaweed!

Granted, I have two bottles of such scotch, but how anybody can drink that on a daily basis is beyond me.

Because it's delicious.

I saw a great Laproiag review that said it was like wearing a flanel shirt next to a campfire, then getting it wet, wringing it out, and drinking the result.

I got my first taste of Ardbeg over the holidays and it was amazing.

[McNutt]

I saw a scotch segment on 60 Minutes and learned I had been pronouncing Laphroaig incorrectly. It's "la FROIG" because Scottish.

[RunningMn9]

How much do you put in a glass? Couple shots worth?

What about ice? I don't want to over dilute it. I put 4 cubes in my tequila. Is there a standard for ice? I use ice that my freezer automatically makes. Should I buy a tray and make smaller cubes? Am I over analyzing ice?

Some general advice: the only way to drink whisk(e)y is to drink it how you like it. If you like it neat? Drink it neat. If you like it with a little splash of water? Add a little water? Like it chilled with ice? Drink Dewar's.

Seriously though, your palette and preferences are your own. The one thing that I would say is that not all whisky is the same. My cabinet currently has about 75 different bottles of whisky in it (mix of single malt Scotches and Bourbons). Some I prefer neat, others I prefer with a couple of drops of water. When trying a new whisky, I always try it neat, and then add a few drops of water and give it 30-60 seconds to open up and try that. I always try both. I never chill it or add ice for two reasons: it dulls the flavor and it waters the whisky down too much (for my taste). If you want to drink it out of a Solo cup with 74 ice cubes, that's your business. No one can tell you how you should like it.

As for bourbons, the best bourbon that I own is Blanton's. It's out of this world for a bourbon (as a general rule, I'm not a bourbon guy as I find them overly sweet). But that one is outstanding. I have a Henry McKenna 10 year old bourbon that I enjoyed and I think my whiskey brethren enjoyed as well.

Bourbon is much easier to experiment with as the cost is so low compared to the ludicrous single malt Scotch bubble that we are experiencing.

[Isgrimnur]

And the new ad for Glenfiddich tells me that the ending sound is more 'ck' than 'ch'.

[RunningMn9]

I got my first taste of Ardbeg over the holidays and it was amazing.

Ardbeg 10yo is one of my favorite affordable whiskies of all time.

[RunningMn9]

And the new ad for Glenfiddich tells me that the ending sound is more 'ck' than 'ch'.

It is definitely 'ck'.

My favorite one to watch people try to pronounce is Craigellachie.

[AWS260]

Ardbeg 10yo is one of my favorite affordable whiskies of all time.

I endorse this endorsement.

My favorite one to watch people try to pronounce is Craigellachie.

Equally fun to pronounce and better tasting: Ancnoc.

[Smoove_B]

Stop telling everyone how good it is! I'm afraid it's going to become scarce and suddenly non-affordable as well.

[noxiousdog]

Stop telling everyone how good it is! I'm afraid it's going to become scarce and suddenly non-affordable as well.

Have you had Dark Cove yet?

edit: look at us smoking up the bourbon thread.....

[RunningMn9]

Have you had Dark Cove yet?

I've got a bottle of all the annual Ardbeg releases. Don't think that I've had one that I didn't like yet.

[mori]

Bought a bottle of Four Roses Single Barrel. I am pretty sure I have had Four Roses before but I do not think I have had the single barrel before. I think I paid $35. Looking forward to trying it this weekend.

Bourbon barrels today are in high demand for aging beer, maple syrup, honey, hot sauce, and I assume many other products, not just Scotch.

[mori]

Bought a bottle of Four Roses Single Barrel. I am pretty sure I have had Four Roses before but I do not think I have had the single barrel before. I think I paid $35. Looking forward to trying it this weekend.

I like it. Drank almost 1/4 of the bottle, and a hangover to pay for it, already. Do not think it will last long.

[MonkeyFinger]

Bought a bottle of Four Roses Single Barrel. I am pretty sure I have had Four Roses before but I do not think I have had the single barrel before. I think I paid $35. Looking forward to trying it this weekend.

I like it. Drank almost 1/4 of the bottle, and a hangover to pay for it, already. Do not think it will last long.

The hangover or the bottle?

[mori]

Bought a bottle of Four Roses Single Barrel. I am pretty sure I have had Four Roses before but I do not think I have had the single barrel before. I think I paid $35. Looking forward to trying it this weekend.

I like it. Drank almost 1/4 of the bottle, and a hangover to pay for it, already. Do not think it will last long.

The hangover or the bottle?

Hangover was gone with a bit of hair of the dog. The bottle may last a few more weekends.

[Xmann]

I've had a few different drinks the past couple nights and it's been enjoyable.

Last night I had Three Roses and Blanton's. I really like Blanton's and while Three Roses was good, I preferred Blanton's much better.

Tonight while waiting for a table at dinner, I headed over to the bar for a quick drink. For some reason I was thinking Stranahan's was bourbon, so I ordered that. Really really loved the flavor profile and the burn I got from Stranahan's. The distillery is only about 20 minutes from my home, so I'll be hitting up a tour and tasting soon.

[MonkeyFinger]

Tonight while waiting for a table at dinner, I headed over to the bar for a quick drink. For some reason I was thinking Stranahan's was bourbon, so I ordered that. Really really loved the flavor profile and the burn I got from Stranahan's. The distillery is only about 20 minutes from my home, so I'll be hitting up a tour and tasting soon.

Yeah, it's a single malt whiskey. The tour is great, you'll learn a ton of stuff and they have tastings of their Original and Diamond Peak and you can then pick some up at a discount. Or hang out at the bar, the bartender was great when we were there, offering advice on the various cocktails they serve. I still have the bottle from the first Original that I bought (batch 99) from back in the day when they had bottling parties which apparently included much drinking as well, something sadly they no longer do. They'd also write on them what they were doing while they were "working", mine says "Playing PS3".

[The Meal]

I've done that Stranahan's tour a handful of times and wouldn't say no to doing it again. Very much worth your time and money.

[McNutt]

Last night I had Three Roses and Blanton's. I really like Blanton's and while Three Roses was good, I preferred Blanton's much better.

You should have spent a bit more and bought Four Roses.

[Smoove_B]

I've had a few different drinks the past couple nights and it's been enjoyable.

[GuidoTKP]

I got my first taste of Ardbeg over the holidays and it was amazing.

Ardbeg 10yo is one of my favorite affordable whiskies of all time.

Bacon!

[GuidoTKP]

Knob Creek Single Barrel Reserve is my never fail, drink it whenever the hell you might be craving bourbon, bourbon. Best deal in booze. Any 120 proof product I'm drinking with ice. I like the journey of too strong to refreshing, with the sweet spot somewhere in the middle. Really good whisky/ey is for sipping, but sometimes (as in, most of the time) I want a beverage. That's when I'm reaching for Knob Creek or some of the other great mid-range offerings that are out there. JP Wisers 15 year old (Canadian, not bourbon) is probably what I'm most likely to reach for if papa needs his medicine after a long day. Goes down easy and it does the job. Redbreast 12 year old cask strength (Irish) if I've been a good boy and deserve something a little extra. I'm usually looking at my Ryes if I'm going to mix a cocktail.