Trump vs. Biden - the Final Showdown

[malchior]

This is exactly the type of story he should have avoided. As long as there are stories like this there is a higher chance that Bernie stays in the race. Perception is reality. Especially so in politics.

With President Trump providing daily televised briefings and governors like Andrew M. Cuomo emerging as national leaders during the coronavirus pandemic, former Vice President Joseph R. Biden Jr. is still grappling with how to position himself as a prominent voice on a crisis that is pushing traditional politics to the background.

Mr. Biden has been confined over the last week to an unusually small role for the likely — though not yet completely certain — nominee of a major political party. His public comments have been sparing and, for the most part, restrained. He is now ramping up a public schedule, beginning with an appearance on ABC’s “The View” on Tuesday, and his aides said he would offer remarks on camera in some fashion each day.

But Democratic strategists, some state officials and even some of his own aides have said that Mr. Biden needs to be more visible at a time when Americans are looking for leadership. The challenge for Mr. Biden, they say, is to find ways to draw sharp contrasts in leadership style with Mr. Trump while showing sensitivity to the severity of the crisis, and to break through when the nation is focused on more immediate concerns than November’s election.

Jim Margolis, a veteran Democratic strategist, said Mr. Biden had “walked that line really well, but it’s hard.”

“The task is, are you able to cut through?” Mr. Margolis said. “Are you able to cut through when Americans are consumed by a virus that is in the news, and that’s all that’s being discussed, whether on the Senate floor, the White House briefing room or in emergency rooms?”

Some Democrats have been perplexed at why Mr. Biden has not used his newfound free time to blitz television news shows, many of which are enjoying high ratings with so many people confined to their homes. He did not do any of the Sunday morning news programs and has also been absent from daytime cable news, which has been dominated by the daily briefings of Mr. Trump and Mr. Cuomo.

On Monday, a day after one of his own donors asked how he could become a bigger part of the national conversation, Mr. Biden gave a speech that was streamed live from his home in Delaware in which he criticized Mr. Trump’s response to the virus as too slow and insufficient, and pressed him to act like the “wartime president” he says he is.

But his address offered a reminder of the continuing challenge he faces in getting attention, even when he does speak out. CNN, Fox News and MSNBC did not air his speech, instead showing a briefing by Mr. Cuomo of New York.

[El Guapo]

Jim Margolis, a veteran Democratic strategist, said Mr. Biden had “walked that line really well, but it’s hard.”

...

But his address offered a reminder of the continuing challenge he faces in getting attention, even when he does speak out. CNN, Fox News and MSNBC did not air his speech, instead showing a briefing by Mr. Cuomo of New York.

It's funny, I read this more as "the Biden campaign is facing real and difficult challenges with running amidst the coronavirus that it's working on addressing".

[malchior]

Jim Margolis, a veteran Democratic strategist, said Mr. Biden had “walked that line really well, but it’s hard.”

...

But his address offered a reminder of the continuing challenge he faces in getting attention, even when he does speak out. CNN, Fox News and MSNBC did not air his speech, instead showing a briefing by Mr. Cuomo of New York.

It's funny, I read this more as "the Biden campaign is facing real and difficult challenges with running amidst the coronavirus that it's working on addressing".

Back off a level to a strategic level. What do donors and opponents (Trump/Bernie) see? They see Biden having trouble communicating with the public. Some will see opportunity. Trump might start digging at the weakness. Bernie may decide to dig in for a long fight. These are some of the problems that lay ahead if Joe continues to struggle here. Some donors may be hesitant to donate or conversely may provide support. In the end, that is why the perception has to be managed here. It can be deadly to his campaign especially if he loses traction for too long. And its very visible now. Struggle is never strength in a Presidential campaign.

[El Guapo]

Jim Margolis, a veteran Democratic strategist, said Mr. Biden had “walked that line really well, but it’s hard.”

...

But his address offered a reminder of the continuing challenge he faces in getting attention, even when he does speak out. CNN, Fox News and MSNBC did not air his speech, instead showing a briefing by Mr. Cuomo of New York.

It's funny, I read this more as "the Biden campaign is facing real and difficult challenges with running amidst the coronavirus that it's working on addressing".

Back off a level to a strategic level. What do donors and opponents (Trump/Bernie) see? They see Biden having trouble communicating with the public. They see opportunity. Trump might start digging at the weakness. Bernie digs in for a long fight. These are some of the problems that lay ahead if Joe continues to struggle here. Some donors may be hesitant to donate or conversely may provide support. In the end, that is why the perception has to be managed here. It can be deadly to his campaign especially if he loses traction for too long.

I just think that you're giving too much agency to the Biden campaign and not enough to the media.

[malchior]

Jim Margolis, a veteran Democratic strategist, said Mr. Biden had “walked that line really well, but it’s hard.”

...

But his address offered a reminder of the continuing challenge he faces in getting attention, even when he does speak out. CNN, Fox News and MSNBC did not air his speech, instead showing a briefing by Mr. Cuomo of New York.

It's funny, I read this more as "the Biden campaign is facing real and difficult challenges with running amidst the coronavirus that it's working on addressing".

Back off a level to a strategic level. What do donors and opponents (Trump/Bernie) see? They see Biden having trouble communicating with the public. They see opportunity. Trump might start digging at the weakness. Bernie digs in for a long fight. These are some of the problems that lay ahead if Joe continues to struggle here. Some donors may be hesitant to donate or conversely may provide support. In the end, that is why the perception has to be managed here. It can be deadly to his campaign especially if he loses traction for too long.

I just think that you're giving too much agency to the Biden campaign and not enough to the media.

Oh I absolutely blame the media but it doesn't matter. This is entirely foreseeable considering how much the media loves the horse race / sausage making narratives. In this case, still it does point at an organizational problem and a lack of political awareness. That is an actual concern.

[El Guapo]

Jim Margolis, a veteran Democratic strategist, said Mr. Biden had “walked that line really well, but it’s hard.”

...

But his address offered a reminder of the continuing challenge he faces in getting attention, even when he does speak out. CNN, Fox News and MSNBC did not air his speech, instead showing a briefing by Mr. Cuomo of New York.

It's funny, I read this more as "the Biden campaign is facing real and difficult challenges with running amidst the coronavirus that it's working on addressing".

Back off a level to a strategic level. What do donors and opponents (Trump/Bernie) see? They see Biden having trouble communicating with the public. They see opportunity. Trump might start digging at the weakness. Bernie digs in for a long fight. These are some of the problems that lay ahead if Joe continues to struggle here. Some donors may be hesitant to donate or conversely may provide support. In the end, that is why the perception has to be managed here. It can be deadly to his campaign especially if he loses traction for too long.

I just think that you're giving too much agency to the Biden campaign and not enough to the media.

Oh I absolutely blame the media but it doesn't matter. This is entirely foreseeable considering how much the media loves the horse race / sausage making narratives. In this case, still it does point at an organizational problem and a lack of political awareness. That is an actual concern.

I know, it's just that this type of stuff is unavoidable to some degree. It's impossible no matter what you do to avoid "X Campaign is messing up Y thing" stories. So that there is a story like this doesn't really tell me that much; what matters is whether they're generating more than an average number of these stories. And I don't really know whether they are. This also doesn't really tell me that there's an "organization problem and a lack of political awareness" - it seems at most to me that this amounts to "the Biden campaign was relatively quiet for most of a week" during a busy media week, and they're working on and have started a response to the challenges posed by coronavirus campaigns.

[malchior]

Jim Margolis, a veteran Democratic strategist, said Mr. Biden had “walked that line really well, but it’s hard.”

...

But his address offered a reminder of the continuing challenge he faces in getting attention, even when he does speak out. CNN, Fox News and MSNBC did not air his speech, instead showing a briefing by Mr. Cuomo of New York.

It's funny, I read this more as "the Biden campaign is facing real and difficult challenges with running amidst the coronavirus that it's working on addressing".

Back off a level to a strategic level. What do donors and opponents (Trump/Bernie) see? They see Biden having trouble communicating with the public. They see opportunity. Trump might start digging at the weakness. Bernie digs in for a long fight. These are some of the problems that lay ahead if Joe continues to struggle here. Some donors may be hesitant to donate or conversely may provide support. In the end, that is why the perception has to be managed here. It can be deadly to his campaign especially if he loses traction for too long.

I just think that you're giving too much agency to the Biden campaign and not enough to the media.

Oh I absolutely blame the media but it doesn't matter. This is entirely foreseeable considering how much the media loves the horse race / sausage making narratives. In this case, still it does point at an organizational problem and a lack of political awareness. That is an actual concern.

I know, it's just that this type of stuff is unavoidable to some degree. It's impossible no matter what you do to avoid "X Campaign is messing up Y thing" stories. So that there is a story like this doesn't really tell me that much; what matters is whether they're generating more than an average number of these stories. And I don't really know whether they are. This also doesn't really tell me that there's an "organization problem and a lack of political awareness" - it seems at most to me that this amounts to "the Biden campaign was relatively quiet for most of a week" during a busy media week, and they're working on and have started a response to the challenges posed by coronavirus campaigns.

Unavoidable sure but I disagree strongly on the frequency/importance angle. If you have a bunch of Internet noise, yeah that is true. If you have a story like this in the Times the visibility on a problem is now very high. If you don't see it as a problem, well I don't know what to say. The lack of organization and political awareness is literally in the article.

Some Democrats have been perplexed at why Mr. Biden has not used his newfound free time to blitz television news shows, many of which are enjoying high ratings with so many people confined to their homes. He did not do any of the Sunday morning news programs and has also been absent from daytime cable news, which has been dominated by the daily briefings of Mr. Trump and Mr. Cuomo.

That is a bad paragraph for them. Remember when I brainstormed ideas. That is exactly what is expected out of campaign. A week is a long time even in this crisis. Anyway, I don't think this is an emergency but it is a shot across the bow.

[Grifman]

Well, Biden today made the rounds of new shows today, saw him on CNN and also heard he was on MSNBC. Reviews are pretty good from the responses I've seen.

[Grifman]

In the latest Monmouth poll, Biden holds a 50% to 41% edge over Trump in the 300 swing counties that decided the election in 2016. Clinton won the total vote in those counties by only 1%:

https://www.monmouth.edu/polling-instit ... us_032420/

In the nearly 2,500 “red” counties that Trump won by an average of 36 points in 2016, his current standing for this year’s election is similar at 63% who support him and 32% who support Biden. In the 360 “blue” counties that Hillary Clinton won by about 35 points on average, 60% of voters support Biden and 30% back Trump. In approximately 300 “swing” counties where the margin of victory was less than ten points for either candidate – accounting for about one-fifth of the total U.S. electorate – 50% back Biden compared with 41% who support Trump. In 2016, Clinton won the cumulative vote in these counties by a single percentage point.

[Unagi]

I wonder if Biden should resurrect the whole : “The Buck Stops Here” thing.
It would help highlight Trump’s 180 degree attitude to that presidential decree , in the context of doing anything about the virus until late March and is likely to become Trump’s massive ‘blame game’

In other words. Start now about how this is all about Trump skirting responsibly.

[Unagi]

or would there be too many cynical jokes about money being collected at the White House

[Jeff V]

In other words. Start now about how this is all about Trump skirting responsibly.

I think it's a matter of attention span among potential Trump voters. Make a big deal of how much of a fiasco it is now, then Trump has time for his persecution complex to that the whole mess was a political injustice guided by the hand of Demon Joe himself. Rather than subjecting himself to crazy late night tweets, Biden probably gains by letting Trump continue tripping over himself.

[El Guapo]

FWIW John Lewis endorsed Biden today.

[Kraken]

IDK if any of you are familiar with this woman's columns; I presume they're running other places than in the Globe. She has been following a group of 500 voters ranging across the political spectrum every week since Dec. 2016. Her columns are anecdotal by nature, but always interesting. Today her focus group wonders, Where is Joe Biden?

As President Trump speaks daily to Americans about the coronavirus, his presumed opponent, former vice president Joe Biden, is invisible. At least that is what more than 80 percent of the voters on my panel of 500 tell me. It’s not just Trump supporters; more than half of Democrats feel this way also.

“He’s been silent on the national and world stage,” said Joseph, a Democrat from Massachusetts. “His social media presence is pathetic, and that is especially tragic, since it’s going to be a centerpiece of communication as we work our way out of this situation.”

His outreach to millennials has been ineffective, according to young voters on my panel who backed Senators Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren. Steven, a Democrat from New York, said that the message “Vote for me to get rid of Trump” doesn’t resonate with him or his friends; nor does a plea from their parents’ generation just to swallow the pill. “We want to know what Biden will accomplish for us beyond the election, and how he’s going to do it.” Added Charles from Massachusetts, “As a person of color, I just feel that Biden needs to earn my vote and reach out to me on the issues I care about.”

It’s not like Biden isn’t trying. He announced a new plan for unemployment insurance, has conducted virtual town halls, and has appeared on television. But most people on my panel haven’t noticed — and are wondering when Biden will demonstrate that he can still lead.

Despite Trump’s low approval ratings, this is a problem for Democrats: In light of uncertainty about the coronavirus this November, it’s clear that the presidential election will be all about turnout. Americans who are charged up about their candidate — like Suzy from Ohio, who said that she will get to the polls even if she is on her deathbed — are the ones candidates can rely on. Yet, according to a recent survey by ABC and The Washington Post, Trump is winning the enthusiasm race. Whereas 53 percent of Trump supporters are very enthusiastic, only 24 percent of Biden supporters are. Building these numbers up is Job One for the Biden campaign.

What should Biden do? Lay low and pounce later, or move now? Voters are split on strategy.

For those of you who still don't know how to get around paywalls, here's the rest:

Spoiler:

The Do Nothing camp believes that it’s fine for Biden to stay quiet for now and let the president implode. “Limited exposure is not such a bad idea, and he should stay away from too many rambling interviews,“ said Robert, a Democrat from Massachusetts. “He can’t compete with Trump for airtime, and so he should not panic about it.”
Related: Scot Lehigh: Reelection politics explain Trump’s strange stance

These voters believe that the Biden team should prepare for what they believe will be a vicious onslaught in the fall, featuring constant messages suggesting that Biden suffers from dementia. Additional attacks on Hunter Biden’s business dealings in Ukraine could cast doubt on Joe Biden’s promise to bring integrity back to the White House. Smart action in these areas will be critical, said Lynda, a Democrat from Minnesota, “and they need to be as wicked as the Trump team will be.”

The Do Something camp takes a different view, recommending several strategies for Biden and his campaign team.

One is to grab headlines by announcing his vice presidential pick, along with a wish list of cabinet members. Key to this would be a strong Treasury secretary who will be able to help manage a fragile economy, and a strong head of Health and Human Services, such as one of the governors who is visibly leading during the pandemic. Regarding the VP pick, no prospective candidate generated widespread enthusiasm other than Michelle Obama. Said Denise from Texas, “If I were Joe Biden, I would camp out on Michelle Obama’s doorstep until she says yes.”
Related: Jeff Jacoby: Would Biden want Warren for VP? Don’t count on it.

Another popular strategy was to acknowledge that Biden has never been good speaking off the cuff, and to focus on speeches (with teleprompters) and advertising. Among many others, David, a Democrat from North Carolina, suggests a video campaign that promotes what he calls “Biden’s biggest leadership assets: his empathy, trustworthiness, and honesty.”

Even if waiting is what his strategists counsel, Biden probably should recognize that it will be hard to outfight Trump from a standing start. Amid shortfalls of testing supplies, with the federal government swooping in to confiscate medical supplies ordered by states, death tolls surging, and Trump tweeting in support of protests from recklessly impatient “patriots” in places like Michigan, the president’s administration appears strident and disorganized in a national crisis. This is a time for leadership, as the nation’s governors are demonstrating. The time for Biden to show he can lead is now — and for all the coming months until November. Leaders don’t hide from a crisis. Neither should Biden.

Diane Hessan is an entrepreneur, author, and chair of C Space. She has been in conversation with 500 voters across the political spectrum weekly since December 2016. Follow her on Twitter @DianeHessan. See her methodology at https://www.documentcloud.org/documents ... ology.html

[El Guapo]

Part of Biden's challenge is that he's doing stuff, but he's not drawing much media coverage. And I think the main reason that he's not drawing much media coverage is that he's not making news. But honestly, his options for making news are fairly limited. He can announce his VP pick, but that'll only last for maybe a day or two of coverage. New policy positions, even important ones, don't make the news unless they're borderline crazy (and that has obvious downsides to it).

That said, I am also of the camp that Biden being in the background is not a big problem, and arguably could be for the best. Being a semi-invisible moderate-ish Democrat right now isn't the worst place to be. Trump's mostly unpopular and trending towards more unpopular at the moment. This being a referendum on Trump, and/or on the economy (and the coronavirus response) may be the best possible position.

[LordMortis]

Unless he can take a leadership role in the COVID 19 Response, what can he do at this point? If he can somehow do that, he should, but really how can he? Work with the governors? Work with response industries? I dunno? What can he contribute to them?

[noxiousdog]

Unless he can take a leadership role in the COVID 19 Response, what can he do at this point? If he can somehow do that, he should, but really how can he? Work with the governors? Work with response industries? I dunno? What can he contribute to them?

Can't he get news network airtime like any Senator?

[Jeff V]

Unless he can take a leadership role in the COVID 19 Response, what can he do at this point? If he can somehow do that, he should, but really how can he? Work with the governors? Work with response industries? I dunno? What can he contribute to them?

He could, I suppose, engage in community service activity as a private citizen (as in channeling his inner Jimmy Carter) and that might get some fence-sitters to agree he's a stand-up guy, but currently he doesn't really have any authority to assume a leadership role. Speaking out on how he would handle things is not really productive. i think he should focus on bringing the party together (where he does have leadership authority) and developing the party's platform. And he could very well be doing that, just not in a visible way.

Online "fireside chats" to give updates on the progress of such wouldn't hurt, though.

[LordMortis]

Unless he can take a leadership role in the COVID 19 Response, what can he do at this point? If he can somehow do that, he should, but really how can he? Work with the governors? Work with response industries? I dunno? What can he contribute to them?

Can't he get news network airtime like any Senator?

But why? The nation is focused on one thing right now.

Edit: If he has a way to be a leader with regard to that focus then he is doing his run (and the nation) a dis-service by not being that leader. I don't know how he could be a leader but I am not a Biden expert. Really, for me, he is.... not Trump... not a GOP establishment and I am a for the first time ever a single issue voter, a partisan voter.

[El Guapo]

Unless he can take a leadership role in the COVID 19 Response, what can he do at this point? If he can somehow do that, he should, but really how can he? Work with the governors? Work with response industries? I dunno? What can he contribute to them?

Can't he get news network airtime like any Senator?

He has. As the article notes, he's been making television appearances. But only a small minority of people tune in for any given appearance, and because those appearances aren't super newsworthy (as the media views these things) they don't get a lot of secondary press time on other media outlets (they do not, in effect, "go viral").

[noxiousdog]

Unless he can take a leadership role in the COVID 19 Response, what can he do at this point? If he can somehow do that, he should, but really how can he? Work with the governors? Work with response industries? I dunno? What can he contribute to them?

Can't he get news network airtime like any Senator?

He has. As the article notes, he's been making television appearances. But only a small minority of people tune in for any given appearance, and because those appearances aren't super newsworthy (as the media views these things) they don't get a lot of secondary press time on other media outlets (they do not, in effect, "go viral").

So he needs a better marketer.

[El Guapo]

Unless he can take a leadership role in the COVID 19 Response, what can he do at this point? If he can somehow do that, he should, but really how can he? Work with the governors? Work with response industries? I dunno? What can he contribute to them?

Can't he get news network airtime like any Senator?

He has. As the article notes, he's been making television appearances. But only a small minority of people tune in for any given appearance, and because those appearances aren't super newsworthy (as the media views these things) they don't get a lot of secondary press time on other media outlets (they do not, in effect, "go viral").

So he needs a better marketer.

Maybe. How do you know that the problem is with Biden's current marketer, as opposed to (say) inherent limitations in the media environment? In other words, what should this hypothetical new marketer be doing that the current one isn't doing?

[noxiousdog]

Unless he can take a leadership role in the COVID 19 Response, what can he do at this point? If he can somehow do that, he should, but really how can he? Work with the governors? Work with response industries? I dunno? What can he contribute to them?

Can't he get news network airtime like any Senator?

He has. As the article notes, he's been making television appearances. But only a small minority of people tune in for any given appearance, and because those appearances aren't super newsworthy (as the media views these things) they don't get a lot of secondary press time on other media outlets (they do not, in effect, "go viral").

So he needs a better marketer.

Maybe. How do you know that the problem is with Biden's current marketer, as opposed to (say) inherent limitations in the media environment? In other words, what should this hypothetical new marketer be doing that the current one isn't doing?

It's irrelevant. He needs more airtime. Nobody outside his campaign is going to do it for him.

[El Guapo]

Unless he can take a leadership role in the COVID 19 Response, what can he do at this point? If he can somehow do that, he should, but really how can he? Work with the governors? Work with response industries? I dunno? What can he contribute to them?

Can't he get news network airtime like any Senator?

He has. As the article notes, he's been making television appearances. But only a small minority of people tune in for any given appearance, and because those appearances aren't super newsworthy (as the media views these things) they don't get a lot of secondary press time on other media outlets (they do not, in effect, "go viral").

So he needs a better marketer.

Maybe. How do you know that the problem is with Biden's current marketer, as opposed to (say) inherent limitations in the media environment? In other words, what should this hypothetical new marketer be doing that the current one isn't doing?

It's irrelevant. He needs more airtime. Nobody outside his campaign is going to do it for him.

How is it irrelevant? You said that he needed a better marketer. I'm asking what the new marketer should be doing. That hardly seems irrelevant to whether he needs a new marketer, or whether the problem is with the marketer.

Seems pretty clear that what he needs are people on the internet saying that he needs to do things better.

[LordMortis]

It's irrelevant. He needs more airtime. Nobody outside his campaign is going to do it for him.

What is he going to gain with that now? OtOH, if he doesn't put his name and his plan on people's lips now, he better have a plan to kick in high gear in August.

[noxiousdog]

How is it irrelevant? You said that he needed a better marketer. I'm asking what the new marketer should be doing. That hardly seems irrelevant to whether he needs a new marketer, or whether the problem is with the marketer.

Seems pretty clear that what he needs are people on the internet saying that he needs to do things better.

Ok, fine you're right. He should just keep doing what he's doing. I'm sure the 500 voters surveyed are just fake news and everything is fine.

[ImLawBoy]

How is it irrelevant? You said that he needed a better marketer. I'm asking what the new marketer should be doing. That hardly seems irrelevant to whether he needs a new marketer, or whether the problem is with the marketer.

Seems pretty clear that what he needs are people on the internet saying that he needs to do things better.

Ok, fine you're right. He should just keep doing what he's doing. I'm sure the 500 voters surveyed are just fake news and everything is fine.

Nice dodge.

[El Guapo]

How is it irrelevant? You said that he needed a better marketer. I'm asking what the new marketer should be doing. That hardly seems irrelevant to whether he needs a new marketer, or whether the problem is with the marketer.

Seems pretty clear that what he needs are people on the internet saying that he needs to do things better.

Ok, fine you're right. He should just keep doing what he's doing. I'm sure the 500 voters surveyed are just fake news and everything is fine.

Nice dodge.

"Do what you are currently doing, but better" is always great and useful advice.

[Kraken]

I think I'm in the "keep a low profile while Trump implodes" camp. Biden isn't good without a script, and he isn't good at social media. Since this will be a mostly virtual campaign, that's the problem his team needs to work on. Although I'm far from a social media whiz, I think that can be done largely by surrogates. Also, social media is essentially free and Trump has 10x as much money as Biden.

I've been watching YouTube clips of the various late-night shows, and those guys (Trevor Noah, Steven Colbert, et al) seem to be desperate for virtual guests. Last night I actually watched one of them (Seth Meyers?) interview his toddlers. Sheesh. Biden could fill that air time...if he could stick to a scripted Q&A format, like Cuomo did last night. 20 minutes of softball questions from Trevor Noah? Biden could handle that, and maybe gain some coolness points.

[LawBeefaroni]

"Do what you are currently doing, but better" is always great and useful advice.

You don't say...
*hastily crosses out lines on motivational speech*

[Jeff V]

I think I'm in the "keep a low profile while Trump implodes" camp.

Biden could wax poetic about how he would handle things, but that runs the danger of Trump co-opting it, half-assed and disastrously implement it, and then say it's Biden's fault for coming up with such a flawed plan. There's no reason he should be providing elephants with any ammunition right now.

[ImLawBoy]

I think I'm in the "keep a low profile while Trump implodes" camp. Biden isn't good without a script, and he isn't good at social media. Since this will be a mostly virtual campaign, that's the problem his team needs to work on. Although I'm far from a social media whiz, I think that can be done largely by surrogates. Also, social media is essentially free and Trump has 10x as much money as Biden.

I've been watching YouTube clips of the various late-night shows, and those guys (Trevor Noah, Steven Colbert, et al) seem to be desperate for virtual guests. Last night I actually watched one of them (Seth Meyers?) interview his toddlers. Sheesh. Biden could fill that air time...if he could stick to a scripted Q&A format, like Cuomo did last night. 20 minutes of softball questions from Trevor Noah? Biden could handle that, and maybe gain some coolness points.

He was on James Corden the other night, FWIW.

[malchior]

How is it irrelevant? You said that he needed a better marketer. I'm asking what the new marketer should be doing. That hardly seems irrelevant to whether he needs a new marketer, or whether the problem is with the marketer.

Seems pretty clear that what he needs are people on the internet saying that he needs to do things better.

Ok, fine you're right. He should just keep doing what he's doing. I'm sure the 500 voters surveyed are just fake news and everything is fine.

Nice dodge.

"Do what you are currently doing, but better" is always great and useful advice.

This take was similar to the reaction I got when I said the same earlier when he went invisible and it landed him a story in the NY Times. I dreamed up some hypotheticals off the top of my hear in response but this is still a pretty weak retort. We aren't advising the campaign. That'd be a proper response if it was our job to fix his campaign. It is legitimate to point out he has a weakness. Especially when there is data/stories to support the criticism.

Still diving in the IMO question is whether this is a big problem yet? And I'd hazard a guess that it probably is not a significant problem yet. He is ahead as far as we can tell without detailed state level polling and time is on his side. Still the campaign needs to figure out how to get eyeballs on it if this crisis stretches into the summer. It could turn into quite a significant problem. The President is getting 2 hours a night of free coverage. Some would argue it is hurting Trump more than it helps but it keeps him in public view while Joe is not getting much attention at all.

In that vein, there is supposedly a big fight in the campaign right now about using Bloomberg's digital firm for this reason. They need to factor the media coverage in because FWIW, this type of story has reared its head twice in a month or so span. The second story was less bad than the first NY Times story but it isn't good. It enables a pile on.

Also it'd be fair to question whether this is lazy horse race coverage or a legitimate issue. I'd say probably a bit of both. I thought his shadow briefing idea was good but they couldn't figure out to execute it. They ran it initially against Cuomo briefings which was pretty stupid. The idea then pretty much got lost in the mix and they never circled round on it. That isn't great a showing. They certainly aren't showing flexibility/agility which is a bad sign. There is so much at risk for the nation so this type of blocking/tackling problem is...distressing.

[El Guapo]

"Do what you are currently doing, but better" is always great and useful advice.

This take was similar to the reaction I got when I said the same earlier when he went invisible and it landed him a story in the NY Times. I dreamed up some hypotheticals off the top of my hear in response but this is still a pretty weak retort. We aren't advising the campaign. That'd be a proper response if it was our job to fix his campaign. It is legitimate to point out he has a weakness. Especially when there is data/stories to support the criticism.

The data / stories is what, two stories in a month or so? How many stories has the NYT / WaPo / Politico run about "Trump voters are sticking with Trump!" based upon interviewing people at diners in Des Moines?

In some ways this is what bothers me about these stories. The media spends hours and hours and pages and pages covering Trump's press conferences and rallies and whatnot, and virtually no time covering Biden's coronavirus responses / speeches / appearances / proposals / etc. Then it follows that up by periodically up and running stories like "voters don't know what Biden is doing right now!" Well, yeah, maybe that has something to do with you not covering what he is doing?

The other part is that it's just not that interesting or useful, IMO. Biden is doing stuff, making proposals, making press appearances, etc. It's not catching a lot of broad media attention. The campaign is trying other things, considering alternative approaches. We can all each spin our own alternatives about what they could be doing, in our capacities as armchair campaign experts. Would any of it work? Who knows - I would tend to assume that people who do this professionally are likely at least somewhat better at it, but who knows.

And you know, he is winning at the moment. Way too early for that to matter, of course, but it's not like he's in a bad position.

[malchior]

That was what I was getting at. This is the type of story that feeds on itself which is the problem. It sucks but it doesn't help that there are legitimate issues like his weak digital presence. Especially since he may badly need a strong social media game. So hopefully they'll take it for the warning/kick in the pants it is and sort it. If he doesn't well...we had a good run.

[El Guapo]

That was what I was getting at. This is the type of story that feeds on itself which is the problem. It sucks but it doesn't help that there are legitimate issues like his weak digital presence. Especially since he may badly need a strong social media game. So take it for the warning it is and sort it. If he doesn't well...we had a good run.

Yeah, but I tend to assume that it's impossible to avoid some type of bullshit media narrative. If this is it...they could do a lot worse.

[malchior]

That was what I was getting at. This is the type of story that feeds on itself which is the problem. It sucks but it doesn't help that there are legitimate issues like his weak digital presence. Especially since he may badly need a strong social media game. So take it for the warning it is and sort it. If he doesn't well...we had a good run.

Yeah, but I tend to assume that it's impossible to avoid some type of bullshit media narrative. If this is it...they could do a lot worse.

Now that the nomination is sewn up that's true. The worst of the risk here is behind him. It was worse when Bernie was waiting in the wings. It still hurts fundraising though. They need a stronger digital presence to get people to open their pocketbooks. This part mystifies me. Everyone else is out of the race. Still why are the powers that be not pouring the best resources into arguably the most important candidate in the most important race of several generations? I don't understand the Democratic party.

[Kraken]

That was what I was getting at. This is the type of story that feeds on itself which is the problem. It sucks but it doesn't help that there are legitimate issues like his weak digital presence. Especially since he may badly need a strong social media game. So take it for the warning it is and sort it. If he doesn't well...we had a good run.

Yeah, but I tend to assume that it's impossible to avoid some type of bullshit media narrative. If this is it...they could do a lot worse.

Now that the nomination is sewn up that's true. The worst of the risk here is behind him. It was worse when Bernie was waiting in the wings. It still hurts fundraising though. They need a stronger digital presence to get people to open their pocketbooks. This part mystifies me. Everyone else is out of the race. Still why are the powers that be not pouring the best resources into arguably the most important candidate in the most important race of several generations? I don't understand the Democratic party.

Bloomberg will bankroll Biden. Grassroots fundraising will be a rounding error.

[malchior]

Bloomberg will bankroll Biden. Grassroots fundraising will be a rounding error.

Yeah. It also is emblematic of how out of touch they are. It looks corrupt and was one of Bernie's and Warren's arguments about how they approached campaign funding prior to both coming to the 'light'. It may end up hurting Biden.

[Default]

Is their anybody that is still on the fence about who to vote for? Realistically? You may get a few that stay home out of pique, be is there any significant amount that are going to be swayed by a tv appearance?