Octopus Overlords

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:35 pm

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:09 pm Would effectively mean the six years I took to get the business degree were effectively down the shitter.

I decided to open myself up to temp work. Who knows if that'll work out.

When you accept a job, you are setting your current worth. A friend of mine has an engineering degree and is somewhat of an expert in teflon. When the only company he worked for as a teflon engineer cut him loose, he's not been able to find a professional job since...going on 15 years now. The talking heads on TV exhorting people to snatch up those coveted (by no one) restaurant and retail jobs are oblivious to this, and that's part of the reason so much of the country is still out of work. It really can be career suicide to take such jobs.

Temp work is much more worthy of your time. It generally pays even better than a staff job, but typically lacks benefits. Significant assignments with major companies get mentioned on my resume. My last job of 10 years began as contract assignment for one international company that was being bought by another. My boss liked me, and had me made a regular employee weeks before the acquisition took place. In the past I had a 2 week assignment with the Chicago Tribune turn into a 2 year regular job; a 2 week assignment with General Growth turn into 9 months, and a 2 week assignment with Sara Lee turn into 2 years. Some companies want to try before they buy, others might grow fond of you and look for reasons to keep you around.

It can definitely feel like I'm short selling myself, but at the same time, I've been out of work for three years so.

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:54 pm It can definitely feel like I'm short selling myself, but at the same time, I've been out of work for three years so.

Oh, I understand, I've been out of work 15 months. This is the second time I've been out that long in my career. But I held out and never actually had to take a step backward. I kind of sort of did when I agreed to go from a regional manager with a company that was acquired by the last company I worked for to a level 3 tech monkey, but the pay differential was minimal, and soon enough I got promoted to a management role where I resumed making more money than any prior job. Even that tech 3 job paid more than my previous management role at a hospital.

The big difference I see is that Jeff has a career. He has a resume. He has proven himself, and can show it on paper.

Drazzil, as Blackhawk aptly observed, you've yet to experience anything even remotely resembling a career. Realistically, getting your foot in the door with a worthwhile employer to develop some work experience -- even at an entry-level -- would likely provide significantly more opportunity for you than a dusty, obsolete business degree that hasn't benefitted you at all for three years or so.

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:02 pm Drazzil, as Blackhawk aptly observed, you've yet to experience anything even remotely resembling a career. Realistically, getting your foot in the door with a worthwhile employer to develop some work experience -- even at an entry-level -- would likely provide significantly more opportunity for you than a dusty, obsolete business degree that hasn't benefitted you at all for three years or so.

There is a difference though between a job that will forward your career, and a dead-end job that might pay some bills but otherwise offers no help whatsoever career-wise. The job market now seems to be crazy for those willing to accept the latter. I would not suggest such jobs unless the alternative is starvation.

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:58 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:02 pm Drazzil, as Blackhawk aptly observed, you've yet to experience anything even remotely resembling a career. Realistically, getting your foot in the door with a worthwhile employer to develop some work experience -- even at an entry-level -- would likely provide significantly more opportunity for you than a dusty, obsolete business degree that hasn't benefitted you at all for three years or so.

There is a difference though between a job that will forward your career, and a dead-end job that might pay some bills but otherwise offers no help whatsoever career-wise. The job market now seems to be crazy for those willing to accept the latter. I would not suggest such jobs unless the alternative is starvation.

Granted, although I wouldn't necessarily describe a dead-end job that might pay some bills as a worthwhile employer. YMMV.

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:05 pm

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:58 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:02 pm Drazzil, as Blackhawk aptly observed, you've yet to experience anything even remotely resembling a career. Realistically, getting your foot in the door with a worthwhile employer to develop some work experience -- even at an entry-level -- would likely provide significantly more opportunity for you than a dusty, obsolete business degree that hasn't benefitted you at all for three years or so.

There is a difference though between a job that will forward your career, and a dead-end job that might pay some bills but otherwise offers no help whatsoever career-wise. The job market now seems to be crazy for those willing to accept the latter. I would not suggest such jobs unless the alternative is starvation.

Granted, although I wouldn't necessarily describe a dead-end job that might pay some bills as a worthwhile employer. YMMV.

I might have a line on an admin position that's a lot of data entry but its at or within 25 cents of minimum wage. Not too sure if I want to take it. It seems very fast paced and TBH the employer requires an almost criminal amount of previous experience. These sort of employers are scum IMO but I *do* need the money.

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:36 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:05 pm

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:58 pm

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 7:02 pm Drazzil, as Blackhawk aptly observed, you've yet to experience anything even remotely resembling a career. Realistically, getting your foot in the door with a worthwhile employer to develop some work experience -- even at an entry-level -- would likely provide significantly more opportunity for you than a dusty, obsolete business degree that hasn't benefitted you at all for three years or so.

There is a difference though between a job that will forward your career, and a dead-end job that might pay some bills but otherwise offers no help whatsoever career-wise. The job market now seems to be crazy for those willing to accept the latter. I would not suggest such jobs unless the alternative is starvation.

Granted, although I wouldn't necessarily describe a dead-end job that might pay some bills as a worthwhile employer. YMMV.

I might have a line on an admin position that's a lot of data entry but its at or within 25 cents of minimum wage. Not too sure if I want to take it. It seems very fast paced and TBH the employer requires an almost criminal amount of previous experience. These sort of employers are scum IMO but I *do* need the money.

More than money, you need credibility. You're not looking for a forever job. Get your foot in the door. Any door that's remotely related to where you want to go. Other opportunities will soon follow after you demonstrate that you're reliable and competent. There are currently nearly 11 million open jobs and just over 8 million unemployed. Labor has never enjoyed such a seller's market.

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:36 pm I might have a line on an admin position that's a lot of data entry but its at or within 25 cents of minimum wage. Not too sure if I want to take it. It seems very fast paced and TBH the employer requires an almost criminal amount of previous experience. These sort of employers are scum IMO but I *do* need the money.

Yeah, that's a real good attitude. If that's how you sound in your interviews, no wonder they are ghosting you.

You have no relevant work experience and no credibility. Your degree at this point isn't worth much. If the employer from a temp job likes you, they may be a good future work reference, if nothing else.

Kraken wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:12 pm Labor has never enjoyed such a seller's market.

This is a fallacy. The jobs are all those nobody wants to do. They are not jobs with an upside, no career path. They are washing dishes. Picking cotton. Stocking store shelves. These are not jobs with an upside...they prepare you for nothing. Many are jobs that undocumented workers used to take, but we've willfully expelled them.

Anything resembling a professional job still has a shit ton of applicants for every job and it's competitive as hell. It is most certainly not a boon for labor.

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:58 pm

Kraken wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:12 pm Labor has never enjoyed such a seller's market.

This is a fallacy. The jobs are all those nobody wants to do. They are not jobs with an upside, no career path. They are washing dishes. Picking cotton. Stocking store shelves. These are not jobs with an upside...they prepare you for nothing. Many are jobs that undocumented workers used to take, but we've willfully expelled them.

Anything resembling a professional job still has a shit ton of applicants for every job and it's competitive as hell. It is most certainly not a boon for labor.

I'll defer to you because you're in this up to your earlobes whereas I just read a lot. 11 million open jobs, 8 million unemployed, the arithmetic is simple. However, you just underscored why Drazzil can't afford to be so picky.* He's been unemployed for 3+ years and his professional history is weak. I helped him put the best possible shine on his resume a while ago. He isn't competing at your level. He needs to prove that he's a player, and that's going to involve taking a job that he thinks is beneath him.

*I've held so many shitty jobs in my life just to survive that I would be hard-pressed to list them all. The government helped me here and there but never gave me a free ride. I might feel different if working had been optional.

gilraen wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 10:41 pm

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 9:36 pm I might have a line on an admin position that's a lot of data entry but its at or within 25 cents of minimum wage. Not too sure if I want to take it. It seems very fast paced and TBH the employer requires an almost criminal amount of previous experience. These sort of employers are scum IMO but I *do* need the money.

Yeah, that's a real good attitude. If that's how you sound in your interviews, no wonder they are ghosting you.

You have no relevant work experience and no credibility. Your degree at this point isn't worth much. If the employer from a temp job likes you, they may be a good future work reference, if nothing else.

Nope. I'm extremely well spoken and calm on interviews. Happy go lucky. Ghosted by two interviewers, both of whom basically offered me jobs, then decided not to e mail me with a list of positions. One of the jobs had a manager who was described as "two faced" and a whole lot of other adjectives I won't use here from a meat department clerk at a different store.... So. No need for alarm bells yet.

Edit for: Went through an automated screening interview today. I tend not to do well on those, because I dislike talking to a machine, much less a creaky system that randomly hangs on on people a quarter or a halfway through an interview. Stupid stupid stupid.

I won't lie about it. The longer I look for work, the more anger seems to color my perspective on things. I am and have been complimented on my interview persona multiple times by people who do interviewing, separate people, as well as the job developer I was working with.

She left to do her education consulting full time and I didn't feel the organization was doing as much developing as they should have and my VR Councilor was absolutely positively livid. A person, who up till then I never saw become upset, even once. It wasn't even in her tone, or how she spoke, but she went bright red at a comment that the manager made, which I won't share here. It was even harder for C. to do that because she's black. I discussed this later with her and she joked that she didn't have much of a poker face.

I suppose I could be on some level, be transmitting my anger at the whole process, and I also know that I've had discussions with my VR councilor about throwing in the towel and filing for SSDI. I do know that the longer I go with nothing to show for it is having a serious effect on my mental health. There will be a point where I will just be done with things. I know it's a long process and I have the history so.

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:58 pm There is a difference though between a job that will forward your career, and a dead-end job that might pay some bills but otherwise offers no help whatsoever career-wise.

With a terrible employment record and years without any job (or ability to claim that he was doing something worthwhile - like child rearing), you don't think that the simple ability to prove he can hold a steady job would help his career?

Need to lie and say he had some kind of at home business.

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:09 pm

Roman wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 7:17 pm Just curious - what hourly wage are you looking for in order for you to live on?

Does taking the $15.50 hour allow you some independence from gov't security assistance and then build up your experience for the next gig?

I could take a job at or near minimum and be fine, I guess section 8 and food stamps would still cover me. I would hate to do that though. Would effectively mean the six years I took to get the business degree were effectively down the shitter.

I decided to open myself up to temp work. Who knows if that'll work out.

I'm of the mind that taking the minimum wage gig will help your mental health IMMENSELY and you can still look for a better paying gig at the same time.
How long have you been in Seattle again? 2 years? Still beating that drum with the same old sticks and tempo will get you nowhere fast.

Drazzil wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 5:09 pm I could take a job at or near minimum and be fine, I guess section 8 and food stamps would still cover me. I would hate to do that though. Would effectively mean the six years I took to get the business degree were effectively down the shitter.

I decided to open myself up to temp work. Who knows if that'll work out.

Temp work can not only pay the bills but get you temp to permanent work with a place like Robert Half.

Roman wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:47 am I'm of the mind that taking the minimum wage gig will help your mental health IMMENSELY and you can still look for a better paying gig at the same time.
How long have you been in Seattle again? 2 years? Still beating that drum with the same old sticks and tempo will get you nowhere fast.

Exactly. Degrees and certifications with zero (recent) work experience? Huge (HUGE) red flag. Either you have problems working with others or you have a self-inflated ego where you think you're too good for most jobs and are holding out for *the* perfect job. If I hire you and my job isn't perfect (in your mind)? You're going to become a headache for me. Pass.

I have always told my daughters to take what ever job you need to pay the bills, then you can look for something better.

Scuzz wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:02 pm I have always told my daughters to take what ever job you need to pay the bills, then you can look for something better.

Yep. Temp work is often a good gateway to full time since they can effectively preview you to see if you will be a fit for the organization. Having no recent work history is way worse than having a job that doesn't meet your expectations. The longer the work gap, the larger the red flag.

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 12:01 pm

Roman wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 11:47 am I'm of the mind that taking the minimum wage gig will help your mental health IMMENSELY and you can still look for a better paying gig at the same time.
How long have you been in Seattle again? 2 years? Still beating that drum with the same old sticks and tempo will get you nowhere fast.

Exactly. Degrees and certifications with zero (recent) work experience? Huge (HUGE) red flag. Either you have problems working with others or you have a self-inflated ego where you think you're too good for most jobs and are holding out for *the* perfect job. If I hire you and my job isn't perfect (in your mind)? You're going to become a headache for me. Pass.

Scuzz wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 2:02 pm I have always told my daughters to take what ever job you need to pay the bills, then you can look for something better.

Pride doesn't put food on the table.

Blackhawk wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:13 am

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:58 pm There is a difference though between a job that will forward your career, and a dead-end job that might pay some bills but otherwise offers no help whatsoever career-wise.

With a terrible employment record and years without any job (or ability to claim that he was doing something worthwhile - like child rearing), you don't think that the simple ability to prove he can hold a steady job would help his career?

Well no, it won't help. He might be at the point where it might not hurt, though.

Jeff V wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:41 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 10:13 am

Jeff V wrote: Thu Sep 09, 2021 8:58 pm There is a difference though between a job that will forward your career, and a dead-end job that might pay some bills but otherwise offers no help whatsoever career-wise.

With a terrible employment record and years without any job (or ability to claim that he was doing something worthwhile - like child rearing), you don't think that the simple ability to prove he can hold a steady job would help his career?

Well no, it won't help. He might be at the point where it might not hurt, though.

Opened myself up to the possibility of temp work a few days ago, and I had a really good interview with a company and it looks like I may be working as a receptionist for an apartment building on Tuesday coming up. 3 month gig. If that doesn't work I got something else in mind. May not be glamorous but from what I understand it may be right up my alley.

Good luck! And remember to be nice to people, that's kind of the point of that job.

Good luck!

Yes, good luck!

pro-tip: Keep the whole 'burn the world down' thing really close to the vest.

Unagi wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:25 pm Yes, good luck!

pro-tip: Keep the whole 'burn the world down' thing really close to the vest.

Unless that's, like, the whole mission statement of the company in question.

Unagi wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:25 pm Yes, good luck!

pro-tip: Keep the whole 'burn the world down' thing really close to the vest.

So I suppose carpet bombing is right out.

Drazzil wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 7:56 pm Opened myself up to the possibility of temp work a few days ago, and I had a really good interview with a company and it looks like I may be working as a receptionist for an apartment building on Tuesday coming up. 3 month gig. If that doesn't work I got something else in mind. May not be glamorous but from what I understand it may be right up my alley.

That's good news. To borrow from one of the greats, whole-ass that job completely. Be the best, most helpful and enthusiastic customer service rep you can possibly be.

Freyland wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 10:51 am

Unagi wrote: Fri Sep 10, 2021 9:25 pm Yes, good luck!

pro-tip: Keep the whole 'burn the world down' thing really close to the vest.

Unless that's, like, the whole mission statement of the company in question.

Yeah my apps for Raytheon and Executive Decisions didn't go through so....

*sigh*

I suspect there are about to be a lot of new openings soon for fully vaxed folks.
Maybe update your resume to mention you are fully vaccinated, try and get ahead of the screeners.


Nearly everyone on my workplace started as a temp or a contractor from an agency, thats just how it works with some big companies now.
You get in with Kelly or Manpower or Randstad or any of the others. The big ones, they offer health insurance and such, its a real job. They find you a place at a company somewhere and you work. If you like the company you have been placed at, you can talk to management there, and see about converting to employee. if you don't care for that company, just wait, the contract will end, and then you get to go see a different company.


If there is a large exodus of anti-vax coming up due to the new Biden rulings, business HR won't have the resources to be able to hire replacements, they will turn to contract agencies to provide staffing. My advice is that being on staff with a contract agency is an excellent position to be in. And then of course, once you are in the door and working, you can strut your stuff.

Drazzil wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:55 pm Yeah my apps for Raytheon and Executive Decisions didn't go through so....

*sigh*

If you'd like to work for Raytheon, apply for some of their Antarctic gigs. You don't even need a skill, it's a company town that needs all of the normal worker bees. Gigs tend to be in 6 month increments (because much of the year, conditions are such that they really can't get you out if you wanted to leave).

Things must have changed then. When I looked into that 20+ years ago, all the gigs required experience. Cooks, mail, etc. all required years of experience. Though, back then, the truly grunt work was handled by a New Zealand company. I'm not familiar with Raytheon. Did they take over the "manpower" part of the jobs?

Jeff V wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:15 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:55 pm Yeah my apps for Raytheon and Executive Decisions didn't go through so....

*sigh*

If you'd like to work for Raytheon, apply for some of their Antarctic gigs. You don't even need a skill, it's a company town that needs all of the normal worker bees. Gigs tend to be in 6 month increments (because much of the year, conditions are such that they really can't get you out if you wanted to leave).

I was joking. Raytheon makes missles and bombs and blows stuff up. 6 months sans my cats would be unacceptable.

Raytheon does tons of scientific research, too. A friend of mine's son graduated as an engineer from Purdue in 3 years, signed on with Raytheon in Tucson, and just got accepted in a master's program at Texas, on Raytheon's dime.

Some of what I do is defense-related, but the breakdown of our customers is roughly 1/3rd NASA/academia, 1/3rd military/defense, 1/3rd corporate. My employer was purchased by RTX at the end of 2020.

Jeff V wrote: Mon Sep 13, 2021 10:15 pm

Drazzil wrote: Sat Sep 11, 2021 2:55 pm Yeah my apps for Raytheon and Executive Decisions didn't go through so....

*sigh*

If you'd like to work for Raytheon, apply for some of their Antarctic gigs. You don't even need a skill, it's a company town that needs all of the normal worker bees. Gigs tend to be in 6 month increments (because much of the year, conditions are such that they really can't get you out if you wanted to leave).

Of course you occasionally have to stress over which of your co-workers is The Thing.

One of my nephews makes big bucks as an electrical engineer for one of the huge oil conglomerates. His starting salary right out of school is higher than Wife's after 40 years in her profession. If it's even occurred to him that he's helping them rape the planet, it doesn't appear to bother him, because he grew up poor and is very much enjoying being rich for a change.

Holman wrote: Wed Sep 15, 2021 9:19 pm
Of course you occasionally have to stress over which of your co-workers is The Thing.

But Drazzil IS "The Thing"!