Octopus Overlords

You guys have one minor problem, which is that none of the industrial mech buddies we've been assigned have PPCs.

But yes, you totally get a bonus and a kill credit if you score a kill with the remote controlled mech.

NickAragua wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 1:03 pm You guys have one minor problem, which is that none of the industrial mech buddies we've been assigned have PPCs.

But yes, you totally get a bonus and a kill credit if you score a kill with the remote controlled mech.

?

Remote Industrialmech Drones
20 tons
Gunnery/Piloting: as per operator, +2
Movement: 2/3
Armor: 36
Heat Sinks: 10
One of the following weapons:
PPC, AC/5, Large Laser, LRM/5, SRM/6, 2x Medium Laser, all in right torso
Can self destruct end of next movement phase after declaring

There's a fixed list in the first post.

Available "little buddy" mechs (main stats are in the stats block post, but they're all slow and a single large laser blast will take off a limb or most of a torso section):
3x medium laser x2
2x SRM/6
2x LRM/5
2x large laser

Oh man, the AC/5 isn't there too? Double boo.

Large laser, I guess.

NickAragua wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 2:04 pm There's a fixed list in the first post.

Available "little buddy" mechs (main stats are in the stats block post, but they're all slow and a single large laser blast will take off a limb or most of a torso section):
3x medium laser x2
2x SRM/6
2x LRM/5
2x large laser

But this list doesn’t have any PPCs

LL for my short lived buddy I guess.

Ok, so all the enemy forces will move before we go, that's good! It lets us start behind heavy, heavy cover, and pick our strategy.

I was midway through writing a post urging us to pick PPC decoys when I realized we had all of none.

Heck, some of those suckers have a single LRM 5? Geez. Freaking Dracs.

I will take 2x SRM 6 baits then, have them charge suicidally.

I think I want to:
- Decoy 1 at 2231
- Lich at 3029
- Drac Decoy at 2015
- Drac Archer at 3713, hull down

Thoughts?

Couple questions: Do we get the same, or better, cover bonuses if we are on a higher level and behind a hill? Say I'm on lv 2 and adjacent to cover, do I get a bonus against a foe on lv 1?

Also, does indirect fire take penalties from interfering terrain? Friendly units can spot for LRM, right?

I'll take a large laser on both of the make shift mechs I have.I'll take a medium laser on the merc decoy and a SRM on the K decoy.

I'm guessing the 2x, 3x etc. by the weapons is how many of those we have to spread amongst all our decoy mechs, right? So we only have two large lasers total?

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:37 pm I'm guessing the 2x, 3x etc. by the weapons is how many of those we have to spread amongst all our decoy mechs, right? So we only have two large lasers total?

Yep. And each decoy mech can only have one.

NickAragua wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:41 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 5:37 pm I'm guessing the 2x, 3x etc. by the weapons is how many of those we have to spread amongst all our decoy mechs, right? So we only have two large lasers total?

Yep. And each decoy mech can only have one.

Ok. Actually, I'll take the two LRM5s for my decoy buddies anyway. I feel like the main use for these weapons in any event is hope for a fluke internal hit or head shot, and scattered LRMs are marginally more likely to generate one of those.

If these placements make good tactical sense...

Bait Warhammer-K 2412
Warhammer-K 2605
Bait Mackie 2528
Mackie 2624

All facing in the general direction of the enemy. Hopefully putting the mech name with a K for Kurita for their mech/bait will help you keep track of who's who on the field.

Missing deployment orders from Stefan and Isgrimnur, will likely start processing deployment within an hour or two.

I was kind of hoping we'd come up with a plan and then place accordingly. It seems a lot more like a free-for-all. So I yield to the master tactician to place me as appropriate if my personal selection was stupid. Also, I have no idea where my Kurita mechs should go.

NickAragua wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 10:54 am Missing deployment orders from Stefan and Isgrimnur, will likely start processing deployment within an hour or two.

I'm fine deferring to GM determination. My apologies for the absence. I will endeavor not to make it a habit.

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:34 am I was kind of hoping we'd come up with a plan and then place accordingly. It seems a lot more like a free-for-all. So I yield to the master tactician to place me as appropriate if my personal selection was stupid. Also, I have no idea where my Kurita mechs should go.

I will say that Leraje, moleymoleymoley, and TotallyNotEvil seem like the experts here (sounds like they've played plenty of battletech?). So if any of them think that any of us or us collectively are making dumb deployment decisions, if any of them could let us know that would be great.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:44 pm

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:34 am I was kind of hoping we'd come up with a plan and then place accordingly. It seems a lot more like a free-for-all. So I yield to the master tactician to place me as appropriate if my personal selection was stupid. Also, I have no idea where my Kurita mechs should go.

I will say that Leraje, moleymoleymoley, and TotallyNotEvil seem like the experts here (sounds like they've played plenty of battletech?). So if any of them think that any of us or us collectively are making dumb deployment decisions, if any of them could let us know that would be great.

I’m open to deployment advice for future ops as well. Once the party starts we’ll all have a better idea (I think) of what to target and where to go but for the opening rounds I don’t mind having an overall plan for deploying and initial contact before it turns into a general scrum.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 12:44 pm

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 11:34 am I was kind of hoping we'd come up with a plan and then place accordingly. It seems a lot more like a free-for-all. So I yield to the master tactician to place me as appropriate if my personal selection was stupid. Also, I have no idea where my Kurita mechs should go.

I will say that Leraje, moleymoleymoley, and TotallyNotEvil seem like the experts here (sounds like they've played plenty of battletech?). So if any of them think that any of us or us collectively are making dumb deployment decisions, if any of them could let us know that would be great.

I've played a fair bit of the computer version, and I nerded out on the tabletop stuff but never played it.

Not sure where to place the bombs and minefields, so I will leave that to the GM.

Our strategy really depends on their force comp and deployment. If they come at us in a deathball, we should probably fall back, hopefully baiting them over the bombs/mines, and slug it out. Nothing much we can do but grit our teeth. If they are spread out, maybe we can do something interesting.

I put myself in something of a bind as I usually go for heavier jumping machines and play sniper. The Archer I will just park somewhere safe and indirect-fire until something really juicy comes up, my Griffin I will probably move for the purposes a stopping a backstab by something horribly murderous and fast like a Stormcrow (which is essentially my Griffin, but better, so we will se how it goes).

Generally, I like tough long-ranged fighters that can jump, and faster tough guys to rush in with an AC-20 (or better yet, an UAC-20) to hopefully start deleting stuff fast and draw fire. But I've never played Clans, I just know intelectually what they can do.

My experience has it that at some points, lighter units are just not worthwhile. But the tabletop folks do seem to regard them very highly, and I think that's because you get to be an insanely good shooter in the PC game by lategame, such that anything but a Locust sprinting all-out doesn't really hurt your hit chance. Not so here. Maybe I've put myself too far forward and will get rolfstomped in the first round, maybe not.

We will see how it goes.

"... and you get the other LRM/5 bot, and you get the other LRM/5 bot." El Guapo finishes explaining to Isgrimnur and Stefan.

"... but..."

"But nothing. They'll be getting blown up in about five seconds anyway, so it doesn't really matter what kind of guns they have."

"Fair enough." Isgrimnur replies.

---

"Here they come." Leraje transmits as we finish setting up. "Remember, they outrange us, so close in under cover as much as you can, especially once those industrial mechs bite the bucket. Watch out for toads."

The clan mechs come at us in two reinforced stars - the slightly heavier and more numerous star comes at the Kurita force set up to the north, while we get a little bit of a break with only seven clan mechs coming at us. A few of them have battle armor troopers clinging on to convenient handholds as the mechs run forward at speed.

Leraje gets a brief chuckle out of the Kurita Awesome and Archer jostling each other on top of the small hill to the north, then focuses in on the approaching clanners. Our immediate threats are identified as:

Man O' War - 80 tons, unknown armament, but keeping up with the rest of the star. Appears to be carrying battle armor.
Thor - a fearsome, long-range 70 ton mech. Expect it to mostly hang back and hop back and forth.
Nobori-nin - Unidentified 50-tonner.
Loki - Long-ranged 65-tonner with relatively light armor and electronic warfare capabilities that may spot our mines.
Black Hawk - Jump-capable 50-tonner with a LOT of lasers. Also seems to be carrying a battle armor squad.
Mad Cat - Somewhat interesting looking variant of the "standard" 75 tonner, still lots of long-ranged weaponry.
Ryoken - Medium-long range 50 ton combatant. Carrying a squad of battle armor.

We've seen the Thor, Loki, Nova, Mad Cat and Ryoken before. The shortest range on those mechs is the Black Hawk, which shoots at standard large laser range, so we've got our work cut out for us. They don't quite reach the line of landmines that we've set and don't show any indication of being aware that they're there, or of the fact that half our mechs are actually dressed-up industrial mechs.
Reminder: On your turn, you move either your mech or your DECOY (which I've helpfully labeled in the screenshot). If you're controlling a Kurita mech, you also move either it or its DECOY (also helpfully labeled).

Please highlight your final orders in bold so it's a little easier for me to pick them out.

A note on conflict resolution - I'll do my best to ask for clarification, but sometimes I'll miss that two mechs are trying to move to the same spot, in which case I'll try to resolve the situation in as optimal fashion as I can (in this case, El Guapo's Awesome and TotallyNotEvil's Archer collided).

Also, apologies for not being clear - the Kurita guys already pre-picked their decoys. Jackasses gave themselves all the PPC and AC/5 mechs.

Finally, sorry if I messed up your deployment coordinates.

Save game (you'll need to download the latest MegaMek nightly build in order to be able to load it):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vm11uf6itjwmb ... av.gz?dl=0

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:31 pm Generally, I like tough long-ranged fighters that can jump, and faster tough guys to rush in with an AC-20 (or better yet, an UAC-20) to hopefully start deleting stuff fast and draw fire. But I've never played Clans, I just know intelectually what they can do.

One-shot wonder-mech Unfortunately I've never seen Clans played or represented the way that they are supposed to be with full adherence to their RoE.

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:31 pm My experience has it that at some points, lighter units are just not worthwhile. But the tabletop folks do seem to regard them very highly, and I think that's because you get to be an insanely good shooter in the PC game by lategame, such that anything but a Locust sprinting all-out doesn't really hurt your hit chance. Not so here. Maybe I've put myself too far forward and will get rolfstomped in the first round, maybe not.

I've played a fair bit of tabletop and a lot of different PC permutations and to be honest never liked light mechs. In tabletop and MegaMek they are ok until you run start dealing with elite (2/2 or better) opponents. HBS' version turned them into utter garbage though - the initiative system and myopic sight ranges they implemented screws over all of the fast moving lightly armoured mechs by forcing them to move into medium range bracket to perform their scouting duties. Personal opinion - 75T+ are the best mechs (with some notable exceptions).

P.S. BT post FedCom civil war sucks.

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:06 pm Couple questions: Do we get the same, or better, cover bonuses if we are on a higher level and behind a hill? Say I'm on lv 2 and adjacent to cover, do I get a bonus against a foe on lv 1?

Also, does indirect fire take penalties from interfering terrain? Friendly units can spot for LRM, right?

Partial cover works if the attacker is at the same or lower level than the defender, so yes.

Indirect fire does not take penalties from intervening terrain between shooter and target (but does take penalties from intervening terrain between spotter and target). The Kurita guys can spot for you and vice versa, and your industrial mechs can also spot for LRMs.

moleymoleymoley wrote: ↑Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:32 am What does terrain master frogman do? It would be cool to mount an underwater ambush. Although I'm guessing you don't play with double blind.

Terrain Master Frogman apparently reduces your MP costs for moving when you're completely submerged, so I guess it's not that useful in this scenario.

Can you tell me what weapon "TheMix Decoy" has?

Also, I don't see a Kurita Crusader decoy. Is the name not obvious?

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:28 pm Can you tell me what weapon "TheMix Decoy" has?

Also, I don't see a Kurita Crusader decoy. Is the name not obvious?

A single SRM/6 for your decoy. The Crusader decoy is "CRD-3R DECOY" (hex 2016) and has a single AC/5.

What's the link for the nightly build?

That's the "bleeding edge" version of MegaMek which includes code changes current as of last night. It's not stable (and not even as stable as a dev version), but MM saves aren't backwards compatible, so if someone wants to fool around with plotting out moves directly via MegaMek, they'll need to have that version (you'll need to create a github account to actually be able to download it).

NickAragua wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:39 pm

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:28 pm Can you tell me what weapon "TheMix Decoy" has?

Also, I don't see a Kurita Crusader decoy. Is the name not obvious?

A single SRM/6 for your decoy. The Crusader decoy is "CRD-3R DECOY" (hex 2016) and has a single AC/5.

Thanks. And . When I zoomed in so I could read, it was just off the screen.

Okay, some spitballing...
I assume that it's acceptable for us to use the Kurita decoys to our benefit? (And the Kurita forces... shhhhhh...)
The Clan forces will move first? So can we "queue up" an attack with the expectation that an enemy will be in range when it goes off?

I'm thinking of having...
- the CRD-3R DECOY fire its AC/5 (I need to look up the ranges on that one) at the Man-O'War (even a surface shot could take out some battle armor, right?)
- THEMIX DECOY queue up an attack (SRM/6) on Mad Cat or Ryoken. Possibly move up a couple, if that's a good idea (to 2031, 2032, or 2132)

For the experienced members, bad ideas?

Leraje wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:19 pm

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 3:31 pm My experience has it that at some points, lighter units are just not worthwhile. But the tabletop folks do seem to regard them very highly, and I think that's because you get to be an insanely good shooter in the PC game by lategame, such that anything but a Locust sprinting all-out doesn't really hurt your hit chance. Not so here. Maybe I've put myself too far forward and will get rolfstomped in the first round, maybe not.

I've played a fair bit of tabletop and a lot of different PC permutations and to be honest never liked light mechs. In tabletop and MegaMek they are ok until you run start dealing with elite (2/2 or better) opponents. HBS' version turned them into utter garbage though - the initiative system and myopic sight ranges they implemented screws over all of the fast moving lightly armoured mechs by forcing them to move into medium range bracket to perform their scouting duties. Personal opinion - 75T+ are the best mechs (with some notable exceptions).

I personally tend to lean towards the 55-75 ton bracket, but can handle assaults as long as they're jump-capable. Fast, jump-capable mediums let me be pretty aggressive while still accumulating reasonable movement mods.

I don't really do light mechs if I can help it - some exceptions being the Spider and Ostscout on account of being incredibly fast, while the Firestarter has "reasonable" armor. They're ok against other light units, but you run into one well-armed medium and the whole scheme falls apart.

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 4:54 pm Okay, some spitballing...
I assume that it's acceptable for us to use the Kurita decoys to our benefit? (And the Kurita forces... shhhhhh...)
The Clan forces will move first? So can we "queue up" an attack with the expectation that an enemy will be in range when it goes off?

The Kurita guys might not do exactly what you want if ordered to do particularly dumb things.

But yes, the clans will always move first. There will sometimes be an "ACE" or two that moves after everyone, but I'll call that out explicitly when it happens.

Thanks, I'm a little hesitant to bold my commands yet. I'll wait to see if someone with more experience says "that's stoopid, noob!".

But it seems like the first couple turns are probably our only chance to use the decoy weapons. And keeps us in cover while the enemy moves into range (hopefully).

Also, can you give a rough idea of where the mine fields are (I don't think it will affect strategy, just so I have an idea).

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:02 pm Also, can you give a rough idea of where the mine fields are (I don't think it will affect strategy, just so I have an idea).

Updated the image in the post with mines (I took the board image from the Smoke Jaguar perspective, and they don't see the mines).

I think a 75-85t 5/8/5 sporting an XL is my favorite.

Oh god, clan mechs are disgustingly good. And jesus help us, that's a Dire Wolf up there. At least the Dracs will soft it up for us, hopefully.

Ok, so they are all in their final positions for this round, yes?

Lets draw the Black Hawk/Nova's fire with a decoy or two, or it will absolutely annihilate something on our side. It has the equivalent of like 11 LLs.

I say we focus on bringing down the Loki on 0924 and the Ryoken on 0934. The softest targets we have, and each mech they lose is a head-capper out of the field.

Nick, I think I have a clear LoS to 0934, don't I? It's not adjacent to the hills, and no woods between us.

I might double-alpha with my Griffin and Archer, as there are a lot of out of cover targets, and let the decoys sit and hopefully draw fire. Thoughts?

@edit: Oh, updated map, let's see.

Hm, the mines aren't super helpful unless we swing upwards. Didn't we have bombs, too?

NickAragua wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:07 pm

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:02 pm Also, can you give a rough idea of where the mine fields are (I don't think it will affect strategy, just so I have an idea).

Updated the image in the post with mines (I took the board image from the Smoke Jaguar perspective, and they don't see the mines).

Thanks! I was expecting more grouped. I like that. As long as they don't use jump jets, we should get some hits.

Thinking that I'll be sending both of the decoy mechs in to make the clanners build up some heat and possibly, just possibly, knock off a point or two of armor.

Oh. LOS. Right. I read the bits on what affects it, but more basic, is it center of hex to center? Or corner to (any) corner?

Either way, TNE (Lich?), you should have LOS. But you may get one penalty for the woods at 2032 depending on how the ruler falls. (Also, I'm assuming that if a hex is mostly wooded, it's considered all wooded.)

Which Kurita Decoys have PPCs? Those are worth shooting with.

And just to clarify: could I choose to move with a decoy, but then control my mech when it comes to firing?

Hm, I think I will be downloading MegaMek to fool around then.

LOS is center of shooter hex to center of target hex. Drawing a line directly between two hexes is technically defender's choice as to which hex is used for LOS, but, in MegaMek, the defender always picks the most difficult LOS modifier.

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:22 pm Which Kurita Decoys have PPCs? Those are worth shooting with.

And just to clarify: could I choose to move with a decoy, but then control my mech when it comes to firing?

ON1-K. BLR-1G has an LRM/5. TDR-5S and PXH-1 have large lasers, the CRD-3R has an AC/5. The others have mlas or SRM/6.

I'm pretty sure that, in the scenario as written, you're operating either the decoy or your mech for the whole turn (movement, firing and physical phase).

The industrial mechs can self-destruct, that's about as "bomb" as it gets.

Hmmm... Looks like I need the Ryoken/Mad Cat to move up 5-6 spaces to be able to target them with the SRM/6. I'm not sure what the movement numbers mean exactly. If they don't move up enough, then I'll need to move THEMIX DECOY to 2030, and fire if allowed/in range.

TotallyNotEvil wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:12 pm Nick, I think I have a clear LoS to 0934, don't I? It's not adjacent to the hills, and no woods between us.

You're sitting in depth 1 water with a height 1 hill in front of you, so not much LOS - you'll have to move out of there if you want LOS.

TheMix wrote: ↑Wed Sep 29, 2021 5:31 pm Hmmm... Looks like I need the Ryoken/Mad Cat to move up 5-6 spaces to be able to target them with the SRM/6. I'm not sure what the movement numbers mean exactly. If they don't move up enough, then I'll need to move THEMIX DECOY to 2030, and fire if allowed/in range.

Basic summary - a "2/3" movement means 2 MP walking, 3 MP running (affects heat build up and shooting penalties). Can't move faster than the running MP (well, you can, but then that's called sprinting and you can't shoot while being easier to hit).

Moving forward one hex into plain terrain is 1 MP, turning one hex-side is 1 MP. Light woods and 1-level elevation changes are an extra 1 MP. So, for example, if you want to move your decoy forward into the light woods, that's 2 MP. Turning your mech one hex side to the right and moving forward 2 hexes is 3 MP.

Range on weapons is given in the stat blocks, e.g. 3/6/9. Meaning short/medium/long range from the shooter's hex to the defender's hex. Can't shoot beyond long range.

GM-wise, if I don't get firing orders or get invalid ones, I'll transform them into something that *can* happen (if something can happen) while keeping the mech under its heat capacity.