[WW] Austin Powers Game - Henchmen Win!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:03 pm

purge wrote:
Kraegor wrote:
Semaj wrote: I um... Gassed Deck 2...
Sorry guys... but one of you... no named mentioned... May have gotten me killed last game, so I figured when I saw the opportunity for some payback that I should take it and I did, with large amounts of glee. This is about the only form of revenge I can expect for some time...
Impressive. Lacks any actual foresight or tactical value but it's impressive that an irrelevant issue from the past determined your actions. Big fan o those pointless war scenarios? Generation upon generation. The blood.

Wow. He could have picked it because he didn't like the number 2; I don't see how this sort of response is going to do anything but derail or bait each other. He didn't like the way you twisted his words (from his perspective) so when he had a random act of gassing you were selected.

Semaj clarified he was after Bakhtosh, although I don't remember things the way he does.

Just so I get this right, how do we rescind an accusation to move it to another, or do we just do the accuse thing to someone else and Scoop is left to do the math?

You can either just accuse someone else, or use the accuse tags to "withdraw X" and the "vote X" or just "X".

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:08 pm

A couple of things to consider when you look at Stess's vote against me and my defense of Semaj's decisions.

1) I have nothing to hide, therefore I don't lurk.
2) There are enough people who've played with me before to know that I don't hide things well.
3) I am on this board infrequently (however moreso now that I'm involved with this thread
4) As I see it, gassing != random kill. The only thing the gassing does is prevent actions for a night cycle.
5) My defense of Semaj is not that; it's a calculated risk. I know I'm not a BA (british agent), and I have no idea if Semaj is or not. What I *do* know is that if we are notified of conversion and none happened that either:

A) Grund was Fat Bastard and since he's a special he can't be converted. (ruling plz)
B) Austin Powers was incapacitated
C) Austin Powers gambled dying this round without having a backup
D) Conversion cannot happen to a different target than the victim.

I might have missed the rules on A and D though.

In my next post I will research the existing texts. Scoop, if you'd care to elaborate I'd appreciate it.

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:10 pm

Thanks for the help Stess.

And the correction on 2 of the 4 or 5 people I know next to nothing about.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:11 pm

purge wrote:

Wow. He could have picked it because he didn't like the number 2; I don't see how this sort of response is going to do anything but derail or bait each other. He didn't like the way you twisted his words (from his perspective) so when he had a random act of gassing you were selected.

I'd hardly call that dwelling, nor a historical war scenario. We're talking about a game that I understand just ended before this one.

It seems to me like you're trying to deflect the 1/3 chance that you're Austin Powers by muddying the water with personal issues.

Impressive. You also bring personal emotion into this wherein I stated the facts. "Dwelling". yes killing someone or knocking them out or punting their chiuahua I don't really care... when one exacts broad spectrum indiscriminate drive-bys one loses the right to the high ground.

so there's a 1/3 chance I'm austin powers? actually no... there's a 50% chance of a 1/3 chance that I'm Austin powers because your evidence is predicated on the assumption that
1) Grund was convertible.
2) Austin powers unconcious.

of course there are also

1) Grund was convertible
2) AP chose not to convert
or

1) Grund not conertible

which then means it still isn't 50% of 33%.......

so what stat were you trying to scare me with?

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:33 pm

Semaj wrote: I um... Gassed Deck 2...
Sorry guys... but one of you... no named mentioned... May have gotten me killed last game, so I figured when I saw the opportunity for some payback that I should take it and I did, with large amounts of glee. This is about the only form of revenge I can expect for some time...

You asked before how to stay alive longer. For one I wouldn't admit to this action. I think you just shortened your life span by a decent amount.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:38 pm

Yeah if nobody better comes up, I'm voting Semaj. There are 14 other people playing who don't want to be a part of your vengeance. Sure it's just a game and I'd even accept him wanting to use the machine for the fun of using it or something; but to use for some purpose relating to a perceived slight in another game is worthy of lynching. (all other things being equal)

Bakhtosh · Post by **Bakhtosh** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:50 pm

Deck Two
Kraegor
Bakhtosh
Stessier

I'm just a henchman. I have no problems lynching everyon on this deck to prove or disprove the notion that AP was gassed last night.

If you feel the need to test me first, so be it, but I strongly suggest checking all 3 either by scan or lynch.

The down side is that it lets those on the other decks off the hook for a while. Of course, we only NEED to lynch twice to find out if AP is on this deck...cause it ain't me.

Stessier

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:52 pm

Bakhtosh wrote:Deck Two
Kraegor
Bakhtosh
Stessier

I'm just a henchman. I have no problems lynching everyon on this deck to prove or disprove the notion that AP was gassed last night.

If you feel the need to test me first, so be it, but I strongly suggest checking all 3 either by scan or lynch.

The down side is that it lets those on the other decks off the hook for a while. Of course, we only NEED to lynch twice to find out if AP is on this deck...cause it ain't me.

Stessier

What a fascinating strategy. So you are completely discounting Grund's claim of FB?

RevHempus71 · Post by **RevHempus71** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 4:53 pm

Revenge, what a lame ass excuse. What player would sacrifice possibly a whole game for screwing with one guy. Come on Semaj do you really expect anyone to accept that.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:12 pm

purge wrote:
Kraegor wrote:
Semaj wrote: I um... Gassed Deck 2...
Sorry guys... but one of you... no named mentioned... May have gotten me killed last game, so I figured when I saw the opportunity for some payback that I should take it and I did, with large amounts of glee. This is about the only form of revenge I can expect for some time...
Impressive. Lacks any actual foresight or tactical value but it's impressive that an irrelevant issue from the past determined your actions. Big fan o those pointless war scenarios? Generation upon generation. The blood.

Wow. He could have picked it because he didn't like the number 2; I don't see how this sort of response is going to do anything but derail or bait each other. He didn't like the way you twisted his words (from his perspective) so when he had a random act of gassing you were selected.

I'd hardly call that dwelling, nor a historical war scenario. We're talking about a game that I understand just ended before this one.

It seems to me like you're trying to deflect the 1/3 chance that you're Austin Powers by muddying the water with personal issues.

Just so I get this right, how do we rescind an accusation to move it to another, or do we just do the accuse thing to someone else and Scoop is left to do the math?

Actually, Semaj said he was after Bahktosh not Kraegor. Semaj's action was directly opposed to his claims of being capable at these games. The evil side had little reason to trigger the gas. The good side tons. Evil had no way of knowing who they were gassing beyond themselves. Good wouldn't care who was getting the gas as long as one of them were awake to take action.

So here we sit with a problem:

Outcomes from last night:
Powers was gassed so Vanessa decided to take out Grund hoping he was Fat Bastard. (Scoop, if gassed does Powers still learn the roles of the killed?)

Powers was not gassed and they decided to take out Grund hoping he was Fat Bastard.

In either of those cases they could have figured Grund worth the kill regardless of obesity and decided to take him down.

Powers was not gassed and they tried to convert Grund and found him to be a special.

For the good guys taking out Fat Bastard would be beneficial because they would know that the rest of their night kills will go through. Also, holding off on the conversion allows them to cast doubt on last nights scan. There are reasons above and beyond the possible negation of Powers in the night to kill Grund.

I tend to think it more likely that they chose to kill Grund purposefully rather than due to lack of option.

As for the voting, your latest properly cast vote takes precence over any others.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:13 pm

note to self: finish reading thread before replying as others will have answered the questions first.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 5:20 pm

Bakhtosh wrote:Deck Two
Kraegor
Bakhtosh
Stessier

I'm just a henchman. I have no problems lynching everyon on this deck to prove or disprove the notion that AP was gassed last night.

If you feel the need to test me first, so be it, but I strongly suggest checking all 3 either by scan or lynch.

The down side is that it lets those on the other decks off the hook for a while. Of course, we only NEED to lynch twice to find out if AP is on this deck...cause it ain't me.

Stessier

Ah the classic defense. "I'm not 'X', go ahead and scan me." Truly a worthless post in determining your alliegence.

No comments on the possibility that Grund was actually Fat Bastard and thus could not be converted. You do realize that if this is the case then the lack of conversion proves nothing regarding the group who were gassed.

Maybe I'll come back to this.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 7:31 pm

Bakhtosh, following your plan locks us into 3 lynches (as everyone will have to lynch you if Kraegor and I come up clean). Why don't we just gas our deck again. If there is a conversion, then none of us were Powers. I can't imagine they will purposely delay a conversion at this point.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 8:24 pm

ok.. you people need to relax.

We dont need to kill anyone to test this theory out. Luckily Remus just became the voice of reason, which actually is rather scarry to think about.

All we have to do is gas them again and odds are the gooduns wont have time to play along. Sooner or later they are going to have to convert, period. that or at the very least, they stall for another day and we get the scanner more time to find them.

It however is something to think about if we do gas them and someone dies again.

And for the umpteenth time, Bahktosh was the object of my affection. It wasn't terribly bright, but then again, it is pretty much what I'm apparently now known for and I'd do it again. It gave me warm fuzzies. And I'm sure he remembers nitpicking 'People I plan on killing" or whatever it was that set him off, the pretty much ended up snowballing me into dying on day 1.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:07 pm

Semaj wrote:ok.. you people need to relax.

We dont need to kill anyone to test this theory out. Luckily Remus just became the voice of reason, which actually is rather scarry to think about.

All we have to do is gas them again and odds are the gooduns wont have time to play along. Sooner or later they are going to have to convert, period. that or at the very least, they stall for another day and we get the scanner more time to find them.

Reading comprehension was never your strong suit, was it?

stessier wrote:Bakhtosh, following your plan locks us into 3 lynches (as everyone will have to lynch you if Kraegor and I come up clean). Why don't we just gas our deck again. If there is a conversion, then none of us were Powers. I can't imagine they will purposely delay a conversion at this point.

purge · Post by **purge** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 9:47 pm

purge wrote:What I *do* know is that if we are notified of conversion and none happened that either:

A) Grund was Fat Bastard and since he's a special he can't be converted. (ruling plz)
B) Austin Powers was incapacitated
C) Austin Powers gambled dying this round without having a backup
D) Conversion cannot happen to a different target than the victim.

I might have missed the rules on A and D though.

"Question: Will we know if there's a conversion?
Answer: The Mod will not announce if a conversion has taken place."

Also, the description for Austin Powers indicates that if the assasination target is a henchman that they can be converted (one time).

Given that there was no conversion (AKA Grund = dead) we can safely assume he was a special. If there was a conversion we'd have no-one dead. (so absence of death in cabin = FB save or conversion).

Let's go with Grund = FB. That means we only have 2 to kill (for sure). Mole is no risk if the other two are dead.

So if they kill another special tonight then they're behind. They gain more by converting.

That means that Stessier, Bahk and Kraegor are not condemnable as being AP simply because there was no conversion.

So that leaves us with behaviour as a selection process.

For now, withdraw Stessier

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:27 pm

Monday's Vote:
Remus West acc Mr Bubbles(1)
tru1cy acc Austin(1)
stessier acc Purge(1)
mipe acc Austin(2)
mipe wd Austin(1)
Sean, Minister of KtSP acc RevHempus71(1)
RevHempus71 acc Sean, Minister of KtSP(1)
Semaj acc Stessier(1)
purge acc Stessier(2)
Kraegor acc Semaj(1)
Bakhtosh acc Stessier(3)
purge wd Stessier(2)

Votes required for execution: 8

Against Stessier(2): Semaj, Bakhtosh
Against Semaj(1): Kraegor
Against Sean, Minister of KtSP(1): RevHempus71
Against RevHempus71(1): Sean, Minister of KtSP
Against Austin(1): tru1cy
Against Mr Bubbles(1): Remus West
Against Purge(1): stessier

No Vote Registered: Chaosraven, Mr Bubbles, Austin, Triggercut, mipe, purge

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:28 pm

Gassing the same floor again means that if one of those three are a special we need rather than any one of them being Austin Powers we will be shooting ourselves in the foot.

Grund announced that he was Fat Bastard. They attacked him and he died. Pretty much give credence to his claim. Which means the three gassed folks mean absolutely nothing. Zero. Zilch. They attacked a special, the special died. Proves nothing regarding the whereabouts of Austin Powers.

Unless/until someone else wants to gainsay Grund's claim then I am going with the Grund = Fat Bastard claim as being true. Why would he lie about it?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Fri Sep 12, 2008 11:30 pm

Let me get caught up here on the questions I have read so far.

purge wrote:As to conversion, I thought that there was no notification of conversion in this game... Scoop can we get a ruling on that? I'd hate to see Dr. Evil shoot Stessier without looking into that.

I think you already answered this but lets just be safe.

Question: Will we know if there's a conversion?
Answer: The Mod will not announce if a conversion has taken place.

Remus West wrote:Scoop, if gassed does Powers still learn the roles of the killed?)

Good question.

(1) Austin Powers always learns the true identity (role) of anyone who dies. The Agents do not receive the results of Mustafa's autopsy report.

Even if gassed, Austin Powers will learn the role of the deceased when he awakes.

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 5:27 am

Semaj wrote: Remus just became the voice of reason, which actually is rather scarry to think about.

Yeah, possible remuscide always makes everyone go hiding.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sat Sep 13, 2008 1:55 pm

So mipe, what do you think is going on?

mipe · Post by **mipe** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 1:19 am

I personally think that either A) they tried to convert Grund, but couldn't because special, or B) They converted someone and also got a kill, so we wouldn't think of convert.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 3:36 am

mipe wrote:I personally think that either A) they tried to convert Grund, but couldn't because special, or B) They converted someone and also got a kill, so we wouldn't think of convert.

As far as I can tell scoop has pretty much said the only way both were to happen is if Grund hit the life station and got killed, which he would announce as such. So grund died by good hands. As such, we can pretty much assume barring a major miracle, Grund was either a special or a non special they decided not to convert.

Since he announced he was FB, it makes sense to assume he was FB, although a smart grund covering for someone else would claim FB when he may have been a henchmen and rather than convert they decided grund isn't a good conversion subject. It's just not smart math. Even if he was a henchmen, conversion is the ideal situation because who knows who you hit on the second and third night. Can you go 4 days without a conversion?

The risk is not worth the reward in my eyes. So the safe assumption is Grund was a powered and FB makes the most sense right now...

lemme apologize in advance, I've been out at ye old bar and am no longer sober. Which is pretty much me on a Saturday/Friday/any day ending with "day" night. So if this doesn't make sense... sowwe.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 8:34 am

mipe wrote:I personally think that either A) they tried to convert Grund, but couldn't because special, or B) They converted someone and also got a kill, so we wouldn't think of convert.

That's not exactly what I meant.

Who do you suspect?

purge · Post by **purge** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 12:07 pm

A) is the only way that happened. As was stated above, scoop will not indicate convert, but a death at the sick bay would be described as such.

Semaj, I agree with you. We should be shaving this down with Occam's Razor and accept the simplest solution is the most likely.

Since I reread the characters and their abilities, I'm surprised that we hadn't seen a report from the autopsy on Mustafa. He gets to submit these anonymously.

Did anyone get the report? There should at least one or two people who could identify if Grund was really FB.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 10:52 pm

Having played behind the scenes with Grund, it is conceivable he was a different special and his Claim to be FB was actually a call for FB Protection and conversation...

In this event, if a FB talked to him, he was obviously not one of the 2 agents, as he died. His advice should be considered, but there would also have been the chance that he was the Mole as well.

Which would be awesome if they killed their ally, thinking to convert him

Well, OK. You are a vicious bastard Rotelli, and, uh, I'm glad you're dead!

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Sun Sep 14, 2008 11:03 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Having played behind the scenes with Grund, it is conceivable he was a different special and his Claim to be FB was actually a call for FB Protection and conversation...

In this event, if a FB talked to him, he was obviously not one of the 2 agents, as he died. His advice should be considered, but there would also have been the chance that he was the Mole as well.

Which would be awesome if they killed their ally, thinking to convert him

Well, OK. You are a vicious bastard Rotelli, and, uh, I'm glad you're dead!

If Grund was not FB and FB had talked to Grund then Grund would not be dead. His communication would have come with protection.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:21 am

Remus West wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Having played behind the scenes with Grund, it is conceivable he was a different special and his Claim to be FB was actually a call for FB Protection and conversation...

In this event, if a FB talked to him, he was obviously not one of the 2 agents, as he died. His advice should be considered, but there would also have been the chance that he was the Mole as well.

Which would be awesome if they killed their ally, thinking to convert him

Well, OK. You are a vicious bastard Rotelli, and, uh, I'm glad you're dead!
If Grund was not FB and FB had talked to Grund then Grund would not be dead. His communication would have come with protection.

unless FB was gassed....

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 4:12 am

Semaj wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Having played behind the scenes with Grund, it is conceivable he was a different special and his Claim to be FB was actually a call for FB Protection and conversation...

In this event, if a FB talked to him, he was obviously not one of the 2 agents, as he died. His advice should be considered, but there would also have been the chance that he was the Mole as well.

Which would be awesome if they killed their ally, thinking to convert him

Well, OK. You are a vicious bastard Rotelli, and, uh, I'm glad you're dead!
If Grund was not FB and FB had talked to Grund then Grund would not be dead. His communication would have come with protection.
unless FB was gassed....

FB announcement was made before all orders were in. FB can't start talking until told he can. Hence, FB had not spoken to Grund when announcement was made.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:20 am

stessier wrote:
Semaj wrote:
Remus West wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Having played behind the scenes with Grund, it is conceivable he was a different special and his Claim to be FB was actually a call for FB Protection and conversation...

In this event, if a FB talked to him, he was obviously not one of the 2 agents, as he died. His advice should be considered, but there would also have been the chance that he was the Mole as well.

Which would be awesome if they killed their ally, thinking to convert him

Well, OK. You are a vicious bastard Rotelli, and, uh, I'm glad you're dead!
If Grund was not FB and FB had talked to Grund then Grund would not be dead. His communication would have come with protection.
unless FB was gassed....
FB announcement was made before all orders were in. FB can't start talking until told he can. Hence, FB had not spoken to Grund when announcement was made.

Shall we play the word twist game into noticing that you seem to be certain Grund was not FB?

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:24 am

Going to Myrtle Beach today. I'll be around about as much as usual this game though I guess.

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 8:31 am

Still no movement. Not convinced to vote for Stess at the moment. Has everyone spoken up. Guess it's time to poke the guilty... get it. We're evil, so we poke the guilty...

Anyway, back to reading...

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:28 am

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 10:52 am

tru1cy wrote:Still no movement. Not convinced to vote for Stess at the moment. Has everyone spoken up. Guess it's time to poke the guilty... get it. We're evil, so we poke the guilty...

Anyway, back to reading...

No no no, we're looking to shoot the GOOD GUYS so we *DO* want to "poke the innocents"

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:08 pm

Its hard to make judgements and I of course am no exception, but with people not participating a lot its hard to really get a lot of information. I'm ready to start poking, but I need to read over all of this one more time before I place my vote.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:20 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:Its hard to make judgements and I of course am no exception, but with people not participating a lot its hard to really get a lot of information. I'm ready to start poking, but I need to read over all of this one more time before I place my vote.

I'm getting back to the point of lynching the guy with the fewest posts on day 1 simply out of annoyance that so many folks are not playing. I have some suspects but without everyone involved it is hard to feel good about any of them.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:32 pm

Unfortunately, that strategy has both good and bad aspects.

Rarely do the quiet ones turn out to be the damned Wolves, but at the same time, inactive players do actively hurt us by letting the coordinated activities of the Wolves run amok while disinterest/apathy/lurking doesn't lend any strength to us to counterract.

Without discussion, they don't slip up, we don't get an opportunity to catch them in it, and with minimal posting habits the semi-active wolf avoids attention away from the extremes.

However, in the late game, having nearly half yer team silent inactive and inattentive is a losing proposition.

Which contributed a great deal to the Poke the Quiet Day One activities in the past.

Although there have been a few recent lurker wolves...

(ominous silence)

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:38 pm

Remus West wrote:
stessier wrote: FB announcement was made before all orders were in. FB can't start talking until told he can. Hence, FB had not spoken to Grund when announcement was made.
Shall we play the word twist game into noticing that you seem to be certain Grund was not FB?

Ok, you're beginning to tick me off. Please produce your great evidence that I dis-believe Grund as FB. As far as I know I said one time, and one time only, that Grund might not be FB and that was when I was confused about the rules and what being found shot meant.

Why are you so intent on making it look like I don't trust Grund's statement? You've never been Semaj-like in your play before...

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:41 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Although there have been a few recent lurker wolves...

That is just it for me though. It used to be that everyone not really playing could be written off as non-special. That is not the case any longer. The down side is beginnning to out-weigh the upside of letting them live. I still tend to think the wolves are amoung the semi-active to active group but I no longer feels sure about it and I get annoyed by the non-players enough to want them gone.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Sep 15, 2008 12:46 pm

stessier wrote:
Remus West wrote:
stessier wrote: FB announcement was made before all orders were in. FB can't start talking until told he can. Hence, FB had not spoken to Grund when announcement was made.
Shall we play the word twist game into noticing that you seem to be certain Grund was not FB?
Ok, you're beginning to tick me off. Please produce your great evidence that I dis-believe Grund as FB. As far as I know I said one time, and one time only, that Grund might not be FB and that was when I was confused about the rules and what being found shot meant.

Why are you so intent on making it look like I don't trust Grund's statement? You've never been Semaj-like in your play before...

First, I was poking fun at Semaj and Bahktosh for the twisted words thing. Second your statement implies Grund was not FB because you speak in absolutes not ifs. Frankly it means nothing to me but you can go ahead and be annoyed if you want, that would at least be funny to me.