Octopus Overlords

And yet everyone persists in engaging with these two. Knowing they're just trolling and shit-posting. Got no one to blame.

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Vice at Charlottesville.

tjg_marantz wrote:And yet everyone persists in engaging with these two. Knowing they're just trolling and shit-posting. Got no one to blame.

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I should probably stop engaging with you as well for similar reasons.

In case anyone was wondering about how President Trump really feels about yesterday's press conference.

hepcat wrote:

tjg_marantz wrote:And yet everyone persists in engaging with these two. Knowing they're just trolling and shit-posting. Got no one to blame.

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I should probably stop engaging with you as well for similar reasons.

Absolutely if that's how you feel. Life's too short. Not sure why but that's neither here nor there in public.

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Max Peck wrote:

LawBeefaroni wrote:

Defiant wrote:Protesters in North Carolina Tear Down Confederate Statue

Kind of a childish response. Don't like the idea of mins toppling statues but I'm not outraged either.

Mins? Is that a typo for "mobs"?

Crap, yes. Autocorrect/Swype.

I have been delving into the comments across various sites and articles and I'm seeing something I don't understand.

Ok I'm seeing a lot I don't understand, but this is specific.

There's a trend of claiming the Civil War obviously wasn't about slavery because only the North had slavery. This is not trolling or sarcasm. At least I don't think it is based on their other posts.

The only thing I can think of is they are somehow claiming the Emancipation Proclamation freed the south from their support of slavery. Which is just weird.

Does anyone know wtf this is?

I knew people in South Carolina who would call the Civil War the War of Northern Aggression, so that should tell you all you need to know.

pr0ner wrote:I knew people in South Carolina who would call the Civil War the War of Northern Aggression, so that should tell you all you need to know.

Yeah. I've heard that one. Along with the states rights argument, taxation and trade, I'm sure there's more dismissing slavery too.

This argument was just weird though. This is literally dismissing slavery as the cause of the civil war because only the north had slaves. Then arguing people needed to study history more. Maybe it an elaborate troll, but Ive seen it across multiple sites and people.

Maybe it's some new meme/argument? That line is certainly nothing I heard in my time down there.

Fitzy wrote:I have been delving into the comments across various sites and articles and I'm seeing something I don't understand.

Ok I'm seeing a lot I don't understand, but this is specific.

There's a trend of claiming the Civil War obviously wasn't about slavery because only the North had slavery. This is not trolling or sarcasm. At least I don't think it is based on their other posts.

The only thing I can think of is they are somehow claiming the Emancipation Proclamation freed the south from their support of slavery. Which is just weird.

Does anyone know wtf this is?

"Only the North had slavery" is bullshit. Maybe they're saying "the North also had slavery," which is technically true in some cases, but the course of abolition in the North was firmly set. That's why the abolitionist Lincoln's election provoked secession in 1860.

The Emancipation Proclamation freed only Southern Slaves simply because the President could not unilaterally eliminate slavery--that would require an act of Congress (which came soon after). The EP exploited the loophole that, since slaves were still legally property when seized from rebels as "contraband," all slaves in areas that came under Union Army control could be automatically granted their freedom.

What's amusing about the Emancipation Proclamation is that it freed the slaves in only those places where the Union had no actual capacity to do so - all areas not under Union control. So, for example, the slaves in New Orleans were not freed despite being in a slaveholding and rebelling state, because Union troops had already captured and were occupying the city.

But it did then serve as a legal basis (under the President's commander-in-chief authority) for freeing slaves as the Union armies advanced, and also (probably most importantly) added another war cause to the Union side and helped keep England and France out of the war.

tjg_marantz wrote:

hepcat wrote:

tjg_marantz wrote:And yet everyone persists in engaging with these two. Knowing they're just trolling and shit-posting. Got no one to blame.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I should probably stop engaging with you as well for similar reasons.

Absolutely if that's how you feel. Life's too short. Not sure why but that's neither here nor there in public.

Just do me a favor and lay off the chastising whenever someone corresponds with Rip. That's all I ask. We're in R&P and there's bound to be some hostility. He gets my dander up, sure. But he sometimes does try to make a point based on something other than regurgitated breitbart articles. I just don't think constantly admonishing people for engaging with him is cool. I have no other issue with you beyond that.

So, let's shake hands and return to the real mission at hand: bashing Trump!

I guess I'll go back into my hole or bubble of a world I live in daily. Because I literally, don't get any of this.

I'll drop my son off at school, head to the hospital and take care of sick people (of any race, gender, or religion), come home and eat dinner with my family, watch some sports or maybe GoT's... rinse and repeat tomorrow.

I might go to a beer fest over the weekend. I'll go ski during the winter. My son will hang out with buddies (his best friend is black and the other middle eastern) and probably talk about girls, and my wife will meet with her friends over some wine or go shopping.

That's kind of the extent of my life. I guess I need to get out more.

Vice News did a ~20 minute piece on Charlottesville: Race and Terror. Not sure if there's graphic violence, but there is (not surprisingly) some language.

As the photos of Nazis at Charlottesville have circulated, one that's getting play is a portly dude in an 82nd Airborne baseball cap giving a Hitler salute.

The actual 82nd AB is having none of that shit:

NM see below

hepcat wrote:. But he sometimes does try to make a point based on something other than regurgitated breitbart articles.

I'm still waiting for the first time on this. I honestly don't think Rip has an actual point of view beyond trolling, as that's the only consistency that I can tell from what he says.

Xmann wrote:I guess I'll go back into my hole or bubble of a world I live in daily. Because I literally, don't get any of this.

I'll drop my son off at school, head to the hospital and take care of sick people (of any race, gender, or religion), come home and eat dinner with my family, watch some sports or maybe GoT's... rinse and repeat tomorrow.

I might go to a beer fest over the weekend. I'll go ski during the winter. My son will hang out with buddies (his best friend is black and the other middle eastern) and probably talk about girls, and my wife will meet with her friends over some wine or go shopping.

That's kind of the extent of my life. I guess I need to get out more.

I get that impulse, but there are many who don't have the same luxury due to their minority status. That's kind of the point here.

hepcat wrote:

tjg_marantz wrote:

hepcat wrote:

tjg_marantz wrote:And yet everyone persists in engaging with these two. Knowing they're just trolling and shit-posting. Got no one to blame.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I should probably stop engaging with you as well for similar reasons.

Absolutely if that's how you feel. Life's too short. Not sure why but that's neither here nor there in public.

Just do me a favor and lay off the chastising whenever someone corresponds with Rip. That's all I ask. We're in R&P and there's bound to be some hostility. He gets my dander up, sure. But he sometimes does try to make a point based on something other than regurgitated breitbart articles. I just don't think constantly admonishing people for engaging with him is cool. I have no other issue with you beyond that.

So, let's shake hands and return to the real mission at hand: bashing Trump!

To be fair to me, I don't think I shit-post or troll but I'll call out crap. Not sure where you think I'm doing that. I also don't admonish when people are engaged with him in actual discussion. It's when people are "outraged" at his shit-posting that I speak up. I wish those posts would get the cold shoulder because they're so obvious. What do they expect? If there's an actual argument, I don't think I'm all that vocal.

All that said, meh. Ignoring is an option as everyone's aware.


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I'm more talking about the Nazi movement and those who spend their time to hate on other people.

On a lighter note. This discussion made me pull the trigger on pre order of Wolfenstein II. Just finished New order. Love killing Nazis!

UsulofDoom wrote:On a lighter note. This discussion made me pull the trigger on pre order of Wolfenstein II. Just finished New order. Love killing Nazis!

Does the game let you punch them?

tjg_marantz wrote:

hepcat wrote:

tjg_marantz wrote:And yet everyone persists in engaging with these two. Knowing they're just trolling and shit-posting. Got no one to blame.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I should probably stop engaging with you as well for similar reasons.

Absolutely if that's how you feel. Life's too short. Not sure why but that's neither here nor there in public.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Until he explained himself, I assumed it was because of the Tapatalk signature.

ImLawBoy wrote:

tjg_marantz wrote:

hepcat wrote:

tjg_marantz wrote:And yet everyone persists in engaging with these two. Knowing they're just trolling and shit-posting. Got no one to blame.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

I should probably stop engaging with you as well for similar reasons.

Absolutely if that's how you feel. Life's too short. Not sure why but that's neither here nor there in public.

Sent from my Nexus 6P using Tapatalk

Until he explained himself, I assumed it was because of the Tapatalk signature.

Got me there lol

UsulofDoom wrote:On a lighter note. This discussion made me pull the trigger on pre order of Wolfenstein II. Just finished New order. Love killing Nazis!

I didn't realize it was getting close.

VR by any chance?

Smoove_B wrote:Vice News did a ~20 minute piece on Charlottesville: Race and Terror. Not sure if there's graphic violence, but there is (not surprisingly) some language.

If you can stomach it to watch this, you should.

Zaxxon wrote:Vice at Charlottesville.

*cough*

These threads continue to evolve (and expand) so quickly, it's hard to keep up.

Smoove_B wrote:These threads continue to evolve (and expand) so quickly, it's hard to keep up.

It's ok. I'm actually relieved to find that I'm not the only one who found the video worthwhile.

Xmann wrote:I guess I'll go back into my hole or bubble of a world I live in daily. Because I literally, don't get any of this.

I'll drop my son off at school, head to the hospital and take care of sick people (of any race, gender, or religion), come home and eat dinner with my family, watch some sports or maybe GoT's... rinse and repeat tomorrow.

I might go to a beer fest over the weekend. I'll go ski during the winter. My son will hang out with buddies (his best friend is black and the other middle eastern) and probably talk about girls, and my wife will meet with her friends over some wine or go shopping.

That's kind of the extent of my life. I guess I need to get out more.

There was an anti-Nazi rally at the state capitol here yesterday, and there was a great speech given by a civil rights lawyer, saying it's time to feel uncomfortable (poor summary). The overt Nazi assholes are bad, but we are all complicit if we stand by and go into our individual bubbles, and ignore what's going on around us, and not denounce it publicly.

I am NOT AT ALL preaching here, because I would be the first one on the list of "people who should be doing more" in terms of civics and related issues. Merely mentally supporting it is no longer enough. We need to SHOW our friends, neighbors, our fellow Americans, that these ideas are not ok, even under a Trump administration. Be vocal about it. Active. I have strong views and opinions on these issues, but at heart I am a turtler, and frankly, my life is easy right now (relatively speaking).

Again, it was a great speech, and made me realize some of my own failings in that regard.

Rip wrote:

UsulofDoom wrote:On a lighter note. This discussion made me pull the trigger on pre order of Wolfenstein II. Just finished New order. Love killing Nazis!

I didn't realize it was getting close.

VR by any chance?

October 27. I did not see a VR version.

Neo-nazis were planning a "free speech" rally on Boston Common this weekend (talk about enemy territory...), but that's in doubt since three of their speakers canceled in the wake of Charlottesville and their organizer only just found out that he needs a permit from the parks dept.

I realize that the least-popular speech is the most in need of protection, so I'm fine with them exercising their rights, even as I hope it falls apart for lack of support. If they do still manage to pull something off, though, they're going to be overwhelmed with opposition. I might hop on the T and show up there myself.

Carpet_pissr wrote:

Xmann wrote:I guess I'll go back into my hole or bubble of a world I live in daily. Because I literally, don't get any of this.

I'll drop my son off at school, head to the hospital and take care of sick people (of any race, gender, or religion), come home and eat dinner with my family, watch some sports or maybe GoT's... rinse and repeat tomorrow.

I might go to a beer fest over the weekend. I'll go ski during the winter. My son will hang out with buddies (his best friend is black and the other middle eastern) and probably talk about girls, and my wife will meet with her friends over some wine or go shopping.

That's kind of the extent of my life. I guess I need to get out more.

There was an anti-Nazi rally at the state capitol here yesterday, and there was a great speech given by a civil rights lawyer, saying it's time to feel uncomfortable (poor summary). The overt Nazi assholes are bad, but we are all complicit if we stand by and go into our individual bubbles, and ignore what's going on around us, and not denounce it publicly.

I am NOT AT ALL preaching here, because I would be the first one on the list of "people who should be doing more" in terms of civics and related issues. Merely mentally supporting it is no longer enough. We need to SHOW our friends, neighbors, our fellow Americans, that these ideas are not ok, even under a Trump administration. Be vocal about it. Active. I have strong views and opinions on these issues, but at heart I am a turtler, and frankly, my life is easy right now (relatively speaking).

Again, it was a great speech, and made me realize some of my own failings in that regard.

I guess I just don't follow things enough and I'm ignorant. I had no idea this was taking place in Virginia before it became news and I'm blind about the hate.

Xmann wrote:

Carpet_pissr wrote:

Xmann wrote:I guess I'll go back into my hole or bubble of a world I live in daily. Because I literally, don't get any of this.

I'll drop my son off at school, head to the hospital and take care of sick people (of any race, gender, or religion), come home and eat dinner with my family, watch some sports or maybe GoT's... rinse and repeat tomorrow.

I might go to a beer fest over the weekend. I'll go ski during the winter. My son will hang out with buddies (his best friend is black and the other middle eastern) and probably talk about girls, and my wife will meet with her friends over some wine or go shopping.

That's kind of the extent of my life. I guess I need to get out more.

There was an anti-Nazi rally at the state capitol here yesterday, and there was a great speech given by a civil rights lawyer, saying it's time to feel uncomfortable (poor summary). The overt Nazi assholes are bad, but we are all complicit if we stand by and go into our individual bubbles, and ignore what's going on around us, and not denounce it publicly.

I am NOT AT ALL preaching here, because I would be the first one on the list of "people who should be doing more" in terms of civics and related issues. Merely mentally supporting it is no longer enough. We need to SHOW our friends, neighbors, our fellow Americans, that these ideas are not ok, even under a Trump administration. Be vocal about it. Active. I have strong views and opinions on these issues, but at heart I am a turtler, and frankly, my life is easy right now (relatively speaking).

Again, it was a great speech, and made me realize some of my own failings in that regard.

I guess I just don't follow things enough and I'm ignorant. I had no idea this was taking place in Virginia before it became news and I'm blind about the hate.

Yup. And I have a brother who is the same. I never heard peep from him about ANYthing political, until this last election, in my life. Just did not concern him, or seem to affect his life enough for him to care when he was busy trying to raise a family, do a stressful job, health issues, etc. I get it.

And I know many people (who I like very much and consider friends) that could have written what you wrote verbatim. But it's time we collectively, and specifically maybe the non-racist whites, start paying more attention to what is happening around us, and being more vocal. I know at least for me it is, and I plan to do so. I guess I used to think voting was enough, but nope.

Carpet_pissr wrote:And I know many people (who I like very much and consider friends) that could have written what you wrote verbatim. But it's time we collectively, and specifically maybe the non-racist whites, start paying more attention to what is happening around us, and being more vocal. I know at least for me it is, and I plan to do so. I guess I used to think voting was enough, but nope.

For my entire life, I have held separate spheres of acquaintances and that was by design. I have been careful what gets said to who. That changed in mid 2016 and that djinni is out of the bottle. Silence is no longer a (re)solution, and that makes me sad. Life was much better and way easier when I felt like it was worthy luxury to keep everyone in their separate little ven diagrammed boxes. I don't like screaming political approvals or disapproval from the rooftops but it seems so very necessary. Now, the only separate sphere I have is work, where I still try really hard to remain apolitical but even that force field is weakening.

Carpet_pissr wrote:

Xmann wrote:

Carpet_pissr wrote:

Xmann wrote:I guess I'll go back into my hole or bubble of a world I live in daily. Because I literally, don't get any of this.

I'll drop my son off at school, head to the hospital and take care of sick people (of any race, gender, or religion), come home and eat dinner with my family, watch some sports or maybe GoT's... rinse and repeat tomorrow.

I might go to a beer fest over the weekend. I'll go ski during the winter. My son will hang out with buddies (his best friend is black and the other middle eastern) and probably talk about girls, and my wife will meet with her friends over some wine or go shopping.

That's kind of the extent of my life. I guess I need to get out more.

There was an anti-Nazi rally at the state capitol here yesterday, and there was a great speech given by a civil rights lawyer, saying it's time to feel uncomfortable (poor summary). The overt Nazi assholes are bad, but we are all complicit if we stand by and go into our individual bubbles, and ignore what's going on around us, and not denounce it publicly.

I am NOT AT ALL preaching here, because I would be the first one on the list of "people who should be doing more" in terms of civics and related issues. Merely mentally supporting it is no longer enough. We need to SHOW our friends, neighbors, our fellow Americans, that these ideas are not ok, even under a Trump administration. Be vocal about it. Active. I have strong views and opinions on these issues, but at heart I am a turtler, and frankly, my life is easy right now (relatively speaking).

Again, it was a great speech, and made me realize some of my own failings in that regard.

I guess I just don't follow things enough and I'm ignorant. I had no idea this was taking place in Virginia before it became news and I'm blind about the hate.

Yup. And I have a brother who is the same. I never heard peep from him about ANYthing political, until this last election, in my life. Just did not concern him, or seem to affect his life enough for him to care when he was busy trying to raise a family, do a stressful job, health issues, etc. I get it.

And I know many people (who I like very much and consider friends) that could have written what you wrote verbatim. But it's time we collectively, and specifically maybe the non-racist whites, start paying more attention to what is happening around us, and being more vocal. I know at least for me it is, and I plan to do so. I guess I used to think voting was enough, but nope.

perhaps

thank you

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Have there been reliable accounts of the numbers present in Charlottesville, both for the white supremacists and the counter-protesters? The only report I saw was that the Nazi-like torch lit parade drew about 250 marchers. That doesn't seem all that impressive to me.

To hear the media coverage of this, there's a massive, burgeoning neo-Nazi movement in this country. Is that really supported by the numbers involved?

Haven't small groups of white power idiots been a near constant over the years? I get that now that they feel they are getting at least tacit support from the White House, and they may have grown more vocal and empowered, but have their numbers actually grown?

Watching the coverage of Charlottesville, I can't help but feel there are parallels with the way the media covers any terror-related incident. Why are people so afraid of terrorism when they have a significantly better chance of dying from walking outside and having a brick fall on their head? That's rhetorical, but I'll answer it anyway: Because the media is in the business of feeding fear.

At the beginning of the Vice piece you can see a line of marchers with their torches. It looks easily well north of 250.

Kurth wrote:Haven't small groups of white power idiots been a near constant over the years? I get that now that they feel they are getting at least tacit support from the White House, and they may have grown more vocal and empowered, but have their numbers actually grown?

It used to be that like 50 guys in robes would show up and march down the street. Now similarly minded people are feeling more comfortable and are showing up with surplus or homemade riot gear and guns. I don't think there are more racists now than say 10 years ago. But they're certainly more visible, vocal and organized since November of 2016. CNN's take is here:

The number of hate groups in the United States has ticked up since the 2016 presidential campaign began, according to classifications of groups from the Southern Poverty Law Center, an Alabama-based nonprofit activist group that tracks civil rights and hate crimes.

Meanwhile, the number anti-Muslim groups skyrocketed and other types of white nationalist, neo-Nazi and neo-Confederate groups reversed their pattern of decline to tick upward.