Octopus Overlords

I was afraid I would have to cut some feathers off, but thankfully it wasn't necessary.

Next morning, all's going well. Right now I'm hand feeding with a capped syringe, plus defrosted peas (hand fed one by one) every two hours. I'll be happier once I see her (and Michelle has informed me that we shall go with 'her') drink on her own. It isn't that she hasn't, just that I haven't seen her (when I have a rescue, I set up a small IP camera and keep an old tablet on my desk with the feed, but I still have to be looking at the right time.)

The first night is a big one, so I'm glad she's still going. She's not even close to out of the woods yet given the malnutrition (she's got a protruding breastbone and a soft beak, the one an indication of starvation, the other of a calcium and/or vitamin D deficiency.) I can't give her anything for any potential parasites yet, as she's young enough it could do her more harm than good.

And yes, baby pigeons are ugly.

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:56 am (and Michelle has informed me that we shall go with 'her')

... what?

Isgrimnur wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 11:28 am

Blackhawk wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 10:56 am (and Michelle has informed me that we shall go with 'her')

... what?

Ah.

'Michelle' is a name given to women by our people.

Seriously, these AIs...

Real answer: Michelle and I are still friends, have been for 33 years, and were even during the ten years we were divorced before. Both of her kids still live here. Our finances are still linked (for now.) Her mom lives right across the street. We still share laundry duties. She helps out with errands while I'm in vehicular limbo. She's here several days per week for one thing or another.

She ran us to town yesterday for a few things we can't get locally (and I bought a month's supply of most of them so as to not have to do that regularly), and was there when we rescued Phoenix. She ran some of my bird rescue supplies down that she'd had at her house a while back for a dove, and she has access to the IP camera that we use to monitor avian visitors.

She may be my ex, and there may be some sore spots right now, but we're still good friends.

Thanks for the clarification. And the snark.

it's funny the pigeon is just letting you handle her

hitbyambulance wrote: Sat Sep 02, 2023 5:21 pm it's funny the pigeon is just letting you handle her

She hasn't been taught to avoid people yet. That lesson comes after leaving the nest (she'd normally follow her parents around for quite a while, learning how they get food, water, what they consider threats, etc.) So now what's coming into play is instinct, and those instincts are those of a species with 10,000 years of human breeding behind them (no 'pigeons' that you see around are wild animals - they're feral domesticated animals.)

They're also very, very smart birds, just shy of corvids when it comes to intelligence (again, human breeding.) She knows I'm not hurting her, and she knows that I'm providing food and getting rid of uncomfortable problems.

She's still doing well. So far I've hand-fed her 70 peas today, with another 20 coming in a couple of hours (it's not ideal, but it's the best option until the hand feeding mixture I ordered arrives.) I've moved her out of the rescue crate and into a larger container that gives more space and a better view (which isn't a concern - she'll never be releasable.)

With that said, the next few weeks are still going to be high-risk, and that goes beyond "something could go wrong" risk and into the realm of death being a distinct possibility. Luckily, pigeons are particularly resilient birds, I've got experience with them, and I have plenty of professionals I can contact if I have a problem.

keep up with the updates! this is all extremely informative (in case i need to make a rock dove rescue some day)

Day 5, and she's still going. She seems to be gaining a little weight, but isn't as active as I'd prefer. That is, hopefully, just part of the recovery from the malnutrition. It also resulted in her having an overly soft beak, the bottom portion of which is slightly curved down at the front as a result (likely a result of low calcium/vitamin D, which I'm trying to address.) I do have antiparasitics and antibiotics in my emergency bird 'kit', but I don't want to give those to her so young, especially as she's malnourished. For now, she's completely quarantined from my other two pigeons, to the point that I wear specific clothes while feeding her and nothing that comes in contact with her is used for anything else.

I've mostly switched from syringe feeding (bottom pic) to hand feeding peas every couple of hours. 15-20 peas, one by one, every couple of hours is tiring. I am, however, starting to work seeds in (five peas, three seeds, five peas, three seeds, etc.) with the goal of slowly increasing the ratio of seeds.

tl;dr - so far, so good, but she's not out of the woods yet.

the feeding regimen is brutal. do you have anyone to cover for 'off' hours or is it you 24/7 ?

hitbyambulance wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 4:02 pm the feeding regimen is brutal. do you have anyone to cover for 'off' hours or is it you 24/7 ?

It's not an overnight task, thankfully. And it's good to let them completely empty their crop once per day (IE, fully digest and eliminate everything they've eaten.) But that's still ~120+ peas to feed one by one. I don't mind (it's bonding time - assuming things turn out well), but I'll still be glad when she starts self-feeding.

I have a 'training video' that I put up on my laptop a half an hour or so before each feeding. Watching other pigeons eat is how young birds learn to feed themselves. I was a little concerned that she wouldn't be able to see the video correctly (their eyes are different from ours, and who knows what a computer monitor actually looks like to them), but she responds to the pigeons in the video, so hopefully it will help her catch on.

Here's the video, by the way:

Why that bird will be big enough to eat in no time.

i put that video on for the cat - he immediately woke from his doze, stared at the screen intently for a few seconds, walked over and rubbed his face on the corner of the screen, then licked his lips

hitbyambulance wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 7:34 pm i put that video on for the cat - he immediately woke from his doze, stared at the screen intently for a few seconds, walked over and rubbed his face on the corner of the screen, then licked his lips

But did he start eating bird seed? Because that's the point!

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Sep 05, 2023 3:59 pm Day 5, and she's still going. She seems to be gaining a little weight, but isn't as active as I'd prefer. That is, hopefully, just part of the recovery from the malnutrition.

She's been very lethargic tonight, enough so that I'm not confident in how this is going to turn out.

Blackhawk wrote: Fri Sep 01, 2023 4:54 pm

Sad pet stories...and maybe a happy one

I'm going to call this an 'unknown' story for now.

It turned out to be a sad story. Phoenix died last night.

It's said that you'll only ever see two kinds of birds: Healthy birds, and dying birds. Birds hide their illnesses. When a bird starts to actually look sick, it means that they're very, very sick. It's why bird care can be complicated - you have to learn to recognize the signs early and be ready to intervene. Everything from how they breathe to their poop to their activity level to a hundred other things. But with a bird that's got something else going on, it becomes impossible to see. The poop is obscured by the unusual diet after being malnourished. The activity level is going to be low for both a baby recovering from that as well. The first sign I saw was a sudden drop in weight yesterday morning (she dropped 10 grams - a lot for a 108 gram bird), but it was possible that it was just a timing thing - that she had less food in her system for this weighing. After all, I only had three data points. The next signs were yesterday afternoon, when, as I posted, she became lethargic. By last night she was falling over, and that's when I knew she'd be gone soon. Maybe if I weren't more than 100 miles from the nearest avian vet they could have saved her, but it is unlikely. Between her young age (I'm going to say 2-3 weeks), the starvation, and the dehydration, she was just too far gone when she came to me (and that's assuming that there was nothing else - like parasites - at work.)

It was clear by the time I went to bed that she was fading, and fast. I picked her up and held her for a couple of hours (pigeons are social animals, and dislike being alone.) Eventually, though, 3:00AM rolled around and I just couldn't stay up any longer. I said goodbye and put her in her box. I woke up at 6 to go to the bathroom, and she had died. I've been up since. I stayed in the bedroom until both kids had left for work (I didn't want Ian to have to try to deal with this at work), and I've been emptying, scrubbing, vacuuming, and disinfecting ever since. On three hours of sleep - well, today's pretty much a lost cause.

It's a rule that you don't get attached to birds you rescue until you're sure about them, and that goes ten times over for juveniles. They're just so fragile and complex that unless everything is just right, death is likely. But you can't sit there and hand feed them for an hour and a half or two hours per day for five days and not get attached. And to be honest, I really needed a win on this one.

Every time this happens, I swear that I'm done. I don't want to deal with another death, or better (but still painful), taking care of them for weeks and then releasing them back into the wild, knowing that you'll never know what happens next. But at the same time, I know that I won't leave a sick bird to suffer, or let them die a painful death. That isn't me.

I'm sorry, Phoenix. I did everything I could have.

Blackhawk wrote: Wed Sep 06, 2023 11:48 am It turned out to be a sad story. Phoenix died last night.

Ugh, I'm really sorry to read this.

You gave her a wonderfully gentle and kind last few days of life.

Very much preferable to baking to death while starving on a sidewalk, or being eaten alive by a cat during that process (which they absolutely will do.)

Man ya really cant tell with some animals. I mean from pics she looked good. Sorry BH. She was in the best hands with you though. If you couldn't save her then no one else could. Most likely she would have died sooner and alone in that parking lot. Best ta ya.

Sorry she didn't make it. You did your best.

sad story... but a necessary one. rescuers gotta keep on keep on. i have a few friends who are feral cat trap n rescue volunteers and they can really beat themselves up over the losses (usually cats that are too far gone in the first place), but the number of wins far outnumber those - cats that have been sterilized and released back, and the kittens and the 'nice' adult cats that get treated, fixed, socialized and fostered/adopted out have been massive in comparison... especially in the prevention of future feral births.

Absolutely. I'm not a professional. I'm not even licensed (although I've worked on behalf of licensed professionals.) But in the last couple of years I've saved five (two pigeons, one mourning dove, one hawk, one wood duck), and I've lost one. That's still worth doing, even if I feel awful right now.

To emphasize the good in all of this and add a positive note:

We found Pippin almost two years ago right after he was nailed by a hungry hawk, got a deep claw scratch, lost a bunch of feathers, and had his tail torn out. He was probably only six or eight weeks older than Phoenix at the time. He's still around. He's cooing at me right now. He's been molting, so he's in a fairly foul ( ) mood.

This is why it's still worth trying.

This is what I see when I turn left. Literally - his cage is about four inches from my desk, and he was standing within arm's reach for this photo.



Him reminding us that it's past bath time (we normally do it once a week - if we wait too long, he just bathes in his water bowl.)




Him relaxing and drying out after a proper bath



And here he is when he was in a more sociable mood...

the eye blinks are super cute

People tend to think of birds as dumb animals. Instinct only no brain. But birds are damn smart and remember well. They have emotions and feelings.

Parrots, corvids (crows, magpies, etc), and pigeons all have extremely high intelligence. Pigeons were bred for intelligence and sociability by humans for as many as 10,000 years, longer than cows, sheep, cats, chickens, ducks. They were probably the first or second domesticated bird (the contender is the goose.)

They're our creation, and the traits we bred into them are why they make such good pets.

Thought I'd share... we lost our little girl Isabella a couple weeks ago. She was the sweetest, most gentle cat I've ever known, and the most beautiful. We'll miss her dearly. It's hit Mrs. Nym especially hard as she depends upon our cats for a lot of emotional and social support given she rarely leaves our home due to her mental health disability. She was the last of the original three cats we adopted during our first year of marriage in 2008 to pass away. It wasn't until we lost the other two that Isabella really came out of her shell.




However, this means that we can now welcome a new cat into our hearts. We adopted the first on Saturday, and intend to get her a companion soon. Just over three months old, Tish-Morgana has an obscene amount of playful, chaotic kitten energy. She's so cute we want to squeeze her until she pops! She's surprisingly extroverted and settled in within minutes. She already joins us in bed, and likes to lie down in front of Mrs. Nym's keyboard when she's at her desk.

Video below. (Brief loud sound at the end caused by kitten clumsiness lol.)

So sorry to hear that, Sudy =(

Our current cat also really opened up after our other cat died last year. It was surprising how much he was repressed just by her presence.

Your new kitty is super cute.

Sorry for your loss and happy for your gain. Kittens are such a delight.

I had to paste the video URL into a separate tab to play it. Dunno why.

The joys and pains of pets...

Sorry for your loss.
The new kitty is adorable!

Sorry you lost Isabella. Pretty kitty. Glad you got another ball of fur and fun and expect another too.

Just wanted to update you all since you have all been with me on this and helped me.

Monday he got pain meds, antibiotics and probiotics. They ran blood work.

Yesterday I was really starting to worry about him because he was like a spring that was being unwound. Like his life was slowly just going away. He was out of energy and just standing around still in pain with his head down. Moping. Standing in one place minutes at a time not moving then just walking back and forth. He'd finally take a nap off and on.

Last night he would not rest. I finally gave up about 2 am and took the pillows off the living room couch and dragged them into the bedroom and made me a bed in the floor with him. That way he could walk when he wanted and come over to be with me when he wanted, He just kissed me and walked around over and over until he finally started going to bed. He got some sleep this way. Me, I could barely get out of the floor this morning. But he is worth it believe me.

But this morning the meds and such seems to have started working. His tail was up. He was perky and he actually trotted through the house with a bound. Back and forth and following me. He was bright eyed and bushy tailed. He hadn't been like that in a week since his tooth first started hurting him.

I gave him his pain med first and alone. Then 10 min later he actually ate on his own and hungrily too. No me having to hand feed him bits at a time.

Also they texted me that his blood work came back ALL normal.

So looks like he may have turned a corner for the best and he has an appt to have oral surgery not this thursday but the next thursday.

So all and all good news everyone. (insert Professor Hubert Farnsworth joke here). Also as for the help I received it will all go to the bill in a day or two when it hits my card. I thank you all graciously and humbly for that. OO fam powah.

EDIT: Also my food stamp EBT card refilled this morning so I ordered food finally. Getting stuff for him too to help him eat and keep his stomach healthy like chicken breasts to boil for him and ad to food and use as a small treat.

Glad to hear things are starting to look up!

LOL I posted my two posts in the wrong threads..this one was meant for pet questions so I could update you all and that one about changing title of thread was for this one lol. Rough week.

But could we change this thread title to something like Pet stories and such..? I want to talk pets sometimes but fear Ill jinx myself posting in a sad pet thread.

Daehawk wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 2:45 pm LOL I posted my two posts in the wrong threads..this one was meant for pet questions so I could update you all and that one about changing title of thread was for this one lol. Rough week.

But could we change this thread title to something like Pet stories and such..? I want to talk pets sometimes but fear Ill jinx myself posting in a sad pet thread.

Sure, the thread has generalized since I started it to talk about my cats (and FIP in particular).

Pet stories ...good/bad/happy/sad They cant all be good or bad.

Kraken wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 2:55 pm

Daehawk wrote: Wed Oct 11, 2023 2:45 pm LOL I posted my two posts in the wrong threads..this one was meant for pet questions so I could update you all and that one about changing title of thread was for this one lol. Rough week.

But could we change this thread title to something like Pet stories and such..? I want to talk pets sometimes but fear Ill jinx myself posting in a sad pet thread.

Sure, the thread has generalized since I started it to talk about my cats (and FIP in particular).

You could always go with "Pet story entropic randomness", to wind up a certain peristeronic aficionado →

Pets, can we talk? -Joan.