Electric Vehicles [BEVs] [FinallyADedicatedThread]

[Zaxxon]

Hertz adds GM BEVs to its fleet, starting 1Q 2023. Good to see this expanding.

[stessier]

I have a JuiceBox 40 and used it to charge the Mach E overnight. This morning it looks like the charge completed successfully, but the unit was giving a 5 beep error code. The manual said this it a stuck connector and to unplug the unit and call Support. This is the official Support troubleshooting:

The 5-beep error code indicates either that the relay is stuck closed, or that the ground conductor on the circuit is malfunctioning. Please do as follows:

Turn off the breaker for your unit and also unplug your JuiceBox from the outlet (if a plugin model). Then try tapping on the JuiceBox's side or front (quite strongly, but not in full force, of course). Since the internal relay is a mechanical part, it should unstick.

I know the things are glorified switches, but it still seems odd whacking my $600 charger (hard, but not too hard!) and hoping for the best.

[Zaxxon]

What could possibly go wrong?

That stinks. My JuiceBox was the old model (looks like a glorified tin box) but was rock-solid for me for 3 years charging 2 cars.

[LordMortis]

If it doesn't work apply more force. If it breaks it needed fixing anyway. Isn't that the corollary to if it is too loud turn up the radio. If that doesn't fix the problem replace the unit or get a new radio.

[stessier]

What could possibly go wrong?

That stinks. My JuiceBox was the old model (looks like a glorified tin box) but was rock-solid for me for 3 years charging 2 cars.

Mine has been in service since 9/2018 without an issue. Nice that I might not have to replace it, but I'm not going to tell my wife about the "fix" if it works, because I guarantee she won't be able to sleep at night knowing the truth.

[stessier]

If it doesn't work apply more force. If it breaks it needed fixing anyway. Isn't that the corollary to if it is too loud turn up the radio. If that doesn't fix the problem replace the unit or get a new radio.

Understood everything but the Radio bit...which is pretty good for one of your posts!

[stessier]

I'm not sure how I feel that the fix worked.

[Zaxxon]

All 50 staes plus DC/Puerto Rico have approved funding plans for new chargers via the infrastructure legislation.

Thanks to flexibility provided by the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law, State Departments of Transportation (DOTs) were able to leverage technical assistance available through the Joint Office of Energy and Transportation and begin staffing and activities directly related to the development of their plans prior to approval. Now that EV charging plans from all 50 States, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico have been approved, each State, Territory, or District can be reimbursed for those costs and now have a wide range of options to use their NEVI Formula funding for projects directly related to the charging of a vehicle, including:

• Upgrade of existing and construction of new EV charging infrastructure
• Operation and maintenance costs of these charging stations
• Installation of on-site electrical service equipment
• Community and stakeholder engagement
• Workforce development activities
• EV charging station signage
• Data sharing activities
• Related mapping analysis and activities

“With this greenlight, States, the District of Columbia and Puerto Rico can ramp up their work to build out EV charging networks that will make driving an EV more convenient and affordable for their residents and will serve as the backbone of our national EV charging network,” said Acting Federal Highway Administrator Stephanie Pollack. “The Federal Highway Administration will continue to work closely with States as we implement this historic funding under the Bipartisan Infrastructure Law to bring President Biden’s vision for a national electric vehicle network to communities across America.”

Approved plans are available here

[Zaxxon]

For LM, seeker of cheap livable BEVs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuvbXRKhb2U

[Kurth]

For LM, seeker of cheap livable BEVs.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YuvbXRKhb2U

That's kind of misleading (not by you, Zaxxon, but the video). He paid $3,600 for a used Leaf with a massive dent in it that he had to drive to Seattle to pick up and haul it back on a trailer. Umm . . . ok. But that's not the experience of most people looking for a "cheap" electric car.

One problem: If you buy a used EV, you forfeit any available tax credits, which can easily be worth up to $10K. That means, you need to find a really cheap option to make a used EV work financially.

Another: It's gotten a little better, but finding a used EV in good condition at a decent price is almost impossible, which is why he probably ended up with one that had clearly been in a serious accident and he still had to haul it back from Seattle on a trailer.

Another: If you're buying new, even the base Leaf is not what I'd call cheap. In my experience in the Portland, OR metro area, after dealer markups and other BS involving dealer installed accessories, Leafs were in the $37-40K range, and, those prices even INCLUDED the $2500 state tax credit which the dealers were misleadingly baking in to their price.

Conclusion: A "cheap livable EV" is still a unicorn.

[Zaxxon]

That's kind of misleading (not by you, Zaxxon, but the video). He paid $3,600 for a used Leaf with a massive dent in it that he had to drive to Seattle to pick up and haul it back on a trailer. Umm . . . ok. But that's not the experience of most people looking for a "cheap" electric car.

Definitely--he went for 'the cheapest', not just cheap. But you can (or could when last I looked) get a similar Leaf without a salvage title and with a working charge port for $5-7k.

One problem: If you buy a used EV, you forfeit any available tax credits, which can easily be worth up to $10K. That means, you need to find a really cheap option to make a used EV work financially.

Not anymore under the new bill taking effect in Jan, or in certain states (eg CO).

Another: It's gotten a little better, but finding a used EV in good condition at a decent price is almost impossible, which is why he probably ended up with one that had clearly been in a serious accident and he still had to haul it back from Seattle on a trailer.

He was going for the cheapest he could find, conditions be damned. Definitely a very specific choice to improve his vid's marketing and not something a real buyer would do.

Conclusion: A "cheap livable EV" is still a unicorn.

It's really not. Caveated with 'a $3750 livable EV' absolutely is.

[Isgrimnur]

Reuters

Shares of Rivian Automotive Inc (RIVN.O) closed 7.3% lower on Monday after the electric-vehicle maker recalled nearly all its vehicles, heightening investor concerns that the company may not be able to meet its 2023 production target.
...
Amazon-backed Rivian on Friday recalled about 13,000 vehicles due to a possible loose fastener that could cause the driver to lose steering control.

[gbasden]

That's kind of misleading (not by you, Zaxxon, but the video). He paid $3,600 for a used Leaf with a massive dent in it that he had to drive to Seattle to pick up and haul it back on a trailer. Umm . . . ok. But that's not the experience of most people looking for a "cheap" electric car.

Definitely--he went for 'the cheapest', not just cheap. But you can (or could when last I looked) get a similar Leaf without a salvage title and with a working charge port for $5-7k.

One problem: If you buy a used EV, you forfeit any available tax credits, which can easily be worth up to $10K. That means, you need to find a really cheap option to make a used EV work financially.

Not anymore under the new bill taking effect in Jan, or in certain states (eg CO).

Another: It's gotten a little better, but finding a used EV in good condition at a decent price is almost impossible, which is why he probably ended up with one that had clearly been in a serious accident and he still had to haul it back from Seattle on a trailer.

He was going for the cheapest he could find, conditions be damned. Definitely a very specific choice to improve his vid's marketing and not something a real buyer would do.

Conclusion: A "cheap livable EV" is still a unicorn.

It's really not. Caveated with 'a $3750 livable EV' absolutely is.

Looking quickly for in stock vehicles in Sacramento I see two 2016 Nissan Leafs for around $16k. Not super cheap but also not extortionate.

[Zaxxon]

I found one for $7k and one for $8,500 near me after my prior post.

[LawBeefaroni]

Milton convicted.

Nikola founder Trevor Milton was convicted Friday by a U.S. jury of fraud in a case alleging he lied to investors about the electric and hydrogen fuel cell company’s technology.

[Zaxxon]

[Unagi]

Morton convicted.

Nikola founder Trevor Morton was convicted Friday by a U.S. jury of fraud in a case alleging he lied to investors about the electric and hydrogen fuel cell company’s technology.

Mortoned.

[Jeff V]

Sounds like a shitty day to be a Milton or a Morton.

[em2nought]

I'm not sure how I feel that the fix worked.

That was my dad's fix for lots of stuff.

Be particularly careful not to buy an EV "flood" car https://www.towforce.net/topic/20243-sa ... %E2%80%9D/

How to spot a flood damaged car https://www.edmunds.com/car-buying/how- ... d-car.html

[Zarathud]

My wife has a nose that smells everything. She thought a car smelled off, and we later followed up on the VIN and confirmed it had been in a flood zone.

[Jeff V]

My wife has a nose that smells everything. She thought a car smelled off, and we later followed up on the VIN and confirmed it had been in a flood zone.

That's a pretty good talent. If I can smell something, that usually means it stinks to high heaven.

[Freyland]

My wife has a nose that smells everything. She thought a car smelled off, and we later followed up on the VIN and confirmed it had been in a flood zone.

That's a pretty good talent. If I can smell something, that usually means it stinks to high heaven.

At the time I clicked to read this post, the thread was right above the "RIP Celebrities or otherwise" thread. The brief disconnect I had reading the above was... disconcerting.

[Pyperkub]

Heads up if you were thinking about upgrading your home Tesla charger to 240v:

Tesla has added a new 240 V AC charger to its offerings, but surprisingly it can't charge a Tesla unless you use an adapter. Instead, and as the name suggests, the J1772 Wall Connector uses the J1772-spec plug, which is standard to all EVs in the US other than Tesla EVs.

[Zaxxon]

You typically wouldn't buy that one if you have only Teslas. It's for folks that have more than one brand.

[Jeff V]

You typically wouldn't buy that one if you have only Teslas. It's for folks that have more than one brand.

That's got to be a small customer base...

[Zaxxon]

You typically wouldn't buy that one if you have only Teslas. It's for folks that have more than one brand.

That's got to be a small customer base...

More than you might think. Especially in commercial settings, where it's now brain-dead easy to implement multi-vendor setups, all of which will earn income for the site owner.

[Jeff V]

More than you might think. Especially in commercial settings, where it's now brain-dead easy to implement multi-vendor setups, all of which will earn income for the site owner.

If it generates income for the site owner, then why don't gas stations all have them? It would seem like a perfect way to hedge their future existence.

[stessier]

More than you might think. Especially in commercial settings, where it's now brain-dead easy to implement multi-vendor setups, all of which will earn income for the site owner.

If it generates income for the site owner, then why don't gas stations all have them? It would seem like a perfect way to hedge their future existence.

The gas station model requires fast chargers and DC current which are tough to make an economic case for due to the electricity demand charges and is not what that plug/charger represent.

Zaxxon is referencing a Level 2 charger that generally operates at <50amps and uses AC current. It would best be installed at places people spend an hour or more so some charge can be gained while shopping/eating/etc. At the upper end, you could probably add about 11 kW per hour.

[Zaxxon]

Thanks, stessier.

Yeah, I'm talking places where L2 makes sense--hotels, malls, other businesses where you might spend 2-12 hours. Investment is a lot lower than DC fast charging.

Though it's true that gas stations need to get on board sooner rather than later, as their existence (at least in their current numbers) is quickly (by business investment timelines) nearing its end. Several are starting, including Shell in the UK, Kum n Go in the US, etc.

[Zaxxon]

Jeebus.

Tl;dr - 314 miles on 213.3 kWh @ 70 mph, 1.4 mi/kWh.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F9IUOR8lG3E

[LordMortis]

/checks last month's bill... average KWH usage per day... 11.4 or about $2.28 per day...

...Well, I guess that's a whole lot better than the gas and Hummer would go through...

Also that thing could power my house for weeks.

[pr0ner]

I got an email from Honda announcing that they'll be fully BEV by 2040, and their first two BEVs hit the market in 2024.

[Zaxxon]

/checks last month's bill... average KWH usage per day... 11.4 or about $2.28 per day...

...Well, I guess that's a whole lot better than the gas and Hummer would go through...

Also that thing could power my house for weeks.

A gallon of gasoline is ~33.7 kWh, so this was 300+ miles in a Hummer on a bit over 6 gallons of gas. Still way better than ICE, just embarrassingly bad for a BEV.

[stessier]

/checks last month's bill... average KWH usage per day... 11.4 or about $2.28 per day...

...Well, I guess that's a whole lot better than the gas and Hummer would go through...

Also that thing could power my house for weeks.

A gallon of gasoline is ~33.7 kWh, so this was 300+ miles in a Hummer on a bit over 6 gallons of gas. Still way better than ICE, just embarrassingly bad for a BEV.

The gas version is embarrassingly bad for an ICE vehicle, so it's really just upholding the tradition.

[Zaxxon]

/checks last month's bill... average KWH usage per day... 11.4 or about $2.28 per day...

...Well, I guess that's a whole lot better than the gas and Hummer would go through...

Also that thing could power my house for weeks.

A gallon of gasoline is ~33.7 kWh, so this was 300+ miles in a Hummer on a bit over 6 gallons of gas. Still way better than ICE, just embarrassingly bad for a BEV.

The gas version is embarrassingly bad for an ICE vehicle, so it's really just upholding the tradition.

Agreed. And when you take into account the monstrous size and ridiculous tires, maybe 'embarrassingly' is too far. But it's very, very bad. That's more than twice the consumption of my X, which is itself a very large vehicle holding a bunch of people and stuff.

[Jeff V]

I saw a Toyota Mirai on the road today...looked pretty cool (if small). Looks like it starts at $50K.

Wife really wants me to buy a car rather than continue renting the Tesla. My current choice (which she approves) is the Camry hybrid, 54 mpg. The configuration I need runs $32K, so not outrageous. Floating that and a Sienna at the same time is going to challenge the budget...if it was a buyers market for new cars, I could probably have gotten an awesome deal buying 2 new cars at once.

[Default]

I'm starting to look for an EV myself, but stock seems to be very limited locally.

[Zaxxon]

Mr. Brownlee pegs the Bolt EUV as one of the first 'reasonably-priced' BEVs that does everything reasonably well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NuaFJTQMoPI

[em2nought]

Made a halfway across the country roadtrip, and noticed I could have filled a freezer with all the road kill I saw. Must of been at least seven deer. Had me wondering if more deer die to cars than to bullets? ...and then it had me wondering if BEVs will be even worse versus deer than cars that make noise? Maybe BEVs will come with a hunting license and a meat locker on the trailer beside their generator?

[Zaxxon]

Looks like the Tesla/EVgo integration using the new CCS1/Tesla adapter works pretty well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-42Zltsy0Bw