Octopus Overlords

Chaz wrote:Ah, the eternal problem of early adopters get screwed when the expansions come out. As an owner of the first edition of Galaxy Trucker, I feel your pain.

I have a long list of games like that, some of which make me leery against buying future games by publishers. Nothing quite like buying LotR Risk because it looks cool and then having them never release the second half of the game but rather just released the full game as a separate edition later.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risk:_The_ ... gy_Edition" target="_blank

Criticism

Many fans were upset about the initial release of "Risk: Lord of the Rings edition" because it did not include the regions (continents) of Gondor and Mordor. This was odd because unlike normal Risk, in this game certain players use "Forces of Darkness" armies and others use "Forces of Light" armies: Gondor is the head "good" country and Mordor is the head "evil" country. It was thought that the "Trilogy Edition", to be released a year after the first, would be something of an add-on pack, including only Gondor and Mordor and intended to be lined up with existing Risk sets. However, the "Trilogy Edition" was actually a large super-map, containing all the original regions as well as Gondor and Mordor. As a result, fans that bought the original edition were left with "incomplete" Risk maps and would have to buy an entirely new game if they wanted the "full" version, although Hasbro did offer them an add on for a fee

Never bought another Risk game after this and I was enjoying all of the different Risk variants they were coming out with.

I had the same problem with Talisman before it was licensed to Fantasy Flight. Bought both versions, and have the original second edition.

7 Wonders had the same problem when they started putting out expansions and a new edition... the Age III card backs in particular were a just notably different shade of purple. Not to mention the 1st edition owners have rather crappy looking wooden "coins" while newer owners (and the expansions) added nicer looking cardboard ones.

I like the wooden coins.

Picked up the Core Worlds expansion, Galactic Orders, last night. And the Mage Knight expansion should be here today.

I love Core Worlds but it always felt slightly unfinished with all the guild symbols on each card that did nothing. Now they do something...and it is glorious. If you're looking for a deck builder that plays more like an empire builder (production, resource management, specialized starting guilds, etc.), take a look at Core Worlds.

let us know how the mage knight expansion turns out. I just bought the game about a month ago and like it enough i'd consider picking up the XP if it's a rousing success.

Daveman wrote:7 Wonders had the same problem when they started putting out expansions and a new edition... the Age III card backs in particular were a just notably different shade of purple. Not to mention the 1st edition owners have rather crappy looking wooden "coins" while newer owners (and the expansions) added nicer looking cardboard ones.

I got burned by the Age III cards. I haven't banned all Asmodee games because they sorted it out. But it took them over six months to sort it out for me and so I am a little gun shy.

hepcat wrote:I like the wooden coins.

Heh... in general I prefer wooden components too, but the paint they used is terrible. It's like they went out of their way to find the most dreary looking, non-reflective/shiny silver and gold. Not to mention the new coins just don't match up with the old ones now

Jow wrote:let us know how the mage knight expansion turns out. I just bought the game about a month ago and like it enough i'd consider picking up the XP if it's a rousing success.

Seconded. I was *this* close to stopping by Miniature Market yesterday to pick it up, but refrained. I had a hard time dropping $35 on an expansion for a game I've played maybe half a dozen times. Still, I'm curious to know how the expansion turns out.

Boudreaux wrote:

Jow wrote:let us know how the mage knight expansion turns out. I just bought the game about a month ago and like it enough i'd consider picking up the XP if it's a rousing success.

Seconded. I was *this* close to stopping by Miniature Market yesterday to pick it up, but refrained. I had a hard time dropping $35 on an expansion for a game I've played maybe half a dozen times. Still, I'm curious to know how the expansion turns out.

Yeah, same boat, except I haven't even really finished learning it yet. Still tempted to pick it up since who knows how long it'll be around.

This weekend, I'm planning on getting the War of the Ring second edition conversion kit from my FLGS. I'd been planning on getting it online, but Amazon's out of them at a reasonable price. Figure I'd better get it before it's totally gone, since who knows if they'll re-print.

Does the MK XP streamline solo play any? I liked the solo game I played but the sheer number of rules make MK a hard sell.

I don't think so. The rules are essentially the same, from what I've heard. They just added new units, monsters, a new hero, etc.

I love Vlaada's games, but I don't believe you could ever accuse his stuff of being simplistic.

hepcat wrote:I don't think so. The rules are essentially the same, from what I've heard. They just added new units, monsters, a new hero, etc.

I love Vlaada's games, but I don't believe you could ever accuse his stuff of being simplistic.

Some of the new unit's have new abilities and rules regarding their recruitment. Some of the old rules have been tweaked. For instance, the unit that used to cause enemies to lose swiftness when blocking no longer do that. Instead they are simply counted twice if blocking an enemy that has swiftness. Simple but potentially huge impact right there. Recruiting Thugs (new unit) reverses your reputation score. Little things like that. It also introduces walls to the tiles which make any enemy attacked across them count as fortified (double fortified if it was already fortified). New locations that have multiple options for exploration rather than just the "I go into the dungeon and encounter this to get that" you have three options of what you want to try to go after.

Whoops, guess I didn't read enough about it.

Discovering this geeklist (She's Asleep! - Games for time poor couples with infant(s)) on BGG has led me to some new games I never heard of and you bums never recommended and now I have placed my third order with CSI in the past 16 days... at least this one has a pre-order items due next month in it so it will seem like there was some time separation.

hepcat wrote:Whoops, guess I didn't read enough about it.

Or buy it and open it and read through all the fiddly bits going "oooh, whats this do".

UPS just dropped off my copy. Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...).

I can tell right off the bat that there's a pretty significant color difference between the backs on my first edition copy and this expansion. It's only the Tactics, Spells and Action decks. I'll see if my clear sleeves mask it enough to make it a non-issue tonight after work. If not, I'll see about grabbing some opaque backed sleeves.

So tomorrow we're playing with your new toys all day, right?

Shame, I love the idea of Vlaada's games, but the execution is often maddening and the game overly long. I mean I can play 3 other games in the same time. I think Vlaada's games would be excellent PC games.

Well, I don't need more to play. I have A Touch of Evil's new expansion, Zombicide, and Smersh.

Some bad news on the gaming front - the Deluxe OGRE looks to be delayed to May at the earliest.

Just put in my order for the Mage Knight expansion and Suburbia.

Suburbia looks like something my kids could enjoy...

Hmmm...now that I've had a chance to place the cards side by side, the difference isn't THAT pronounced. Yeah, it's a bit brighter, but I don't think it's something you'll notice unless you're really looking. I'll try combining the games and see if there's an issue. The unit cards and all others seem fine, by the way.

Zarathud wrote:So tomorrow we're playing with your new toys all day, right?

I want to try an advanced game of Through the Ages at least. I'd love to play Core Worlds with the fantastic expansion too, but we'll see. I don't want to hog the entire day if someone else has something they want to play.

Mage Knight I'm leaving at home, though. We'd need to start at 5am if we wanted to play a full, 4 player game of that one.

hepcat wrote:UPS just dropped off my copy. Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...).

I can tell right off the bat that there's a pretty significant color difference between the backs on my first edition copy and this expansion. It's only the Tactics, Spells and Action decks. I'll see if my clear sleeves mask it enough to make it a non-issue tonight after work. If not, I'll see about grabbing some opaque backed sleeves.

Just opened my copy, I'm stoked. The new basic cards for the existing characters are crazy good.

Check out the new and quite epic first scenario in the rulebook. Can't wait to give it a shot.

What is the latest hive mind opinion on best 2 player games?

Bruce wrote:What is the latest hive mind opinion on best 2 player games?

We recently had this discussion just a couple posts down.

hepcat wrote:UPS just dropped off my copy. Sheesh, this is one small box. Thankfully, everything's packed in nicely this time. Not too tight nor too loose (someone's sig in 3, 2, ...).

Your wish is my command.

Also - Played Mage Knight(No Expansion), Conquest of Nerath, Eclipse (No Expansion, I own it, but too much new stuff for my group) this weekend.

Mage Knight and Eclipse was on Saturday. Mage Knight we played the full rules, and just did a conquest game. 3 players.
This game was very fun. We had a blast, and not just because I won. I took over 2 cities, and was the only one to do any of the adventure type stuff. But I almost lost it, as my last fight to take a Mage Tower netted me 4 wounds. Luckily one of the other guys had more than me.

Eclipse - Zarathud introduced me to this game at the last Octocon. This reminds me of playing Master of Orion(the good ones) on the computer. I love this game. When you have a good group to play this with, it is pure magic. Run to the store and buy this game if you like space type games.
A 4 player game(one person showed up later Saturday). I lost very spectacularly. I was doing well, letting everyone else fight one another, and then the other three noticed me building up. Well that did not end well. Let's say the traitor card got passed around a little as relationships were broken in the last three 'turns'. I can not wait to break out the expansion.
Also - My girls loved to pop out all the pieces and sort everything into the bags. This game actually comes with baggies for everything, and actual cloth bags for chits. The expansion looks to add a ton of 'options' that you can choose to use or not. Also, the expansion adds support for up to 9 players, and some cool new features for speeding the turns along.

Conquest of Nerath - 3 player game. I like this game, not love it but like it. Very much an Axis and Allies clone. The set-up is very much the same as Axis and Allies, even the cards. The different dice for the different units is cool as well. I got to break out all my old RPG dice for this game. The dungeons are very much like the 'tech' upgrades that you can get from the Axis and Allies game as well. My group liked this, as it was a much lighter game to play, and the event cards really let unexpected things happen.

And that was my weekend. Other than my wife going to Ikea and the container store and spending tons of money. But that means I can buy more stuff as well.

RMC wrote:And that was my weekend. Other than my wife going to Ikea and the container store and spending tons of money. But that means I can buy more stuff as well.

I... uhhh... read through all the Netrunner cards in the base set, then read the instructions again. Since I really, really plan to make DGM this weekend, I need decks. There are hardly any cards in the base set, but I am still overwhelmed with choices. The first two expansions are supposed to arrive tomorrow and I expect them to amplify my indecision. I think deckbuilding in MtG, even though there were thousands more cards, was easier. Not to mention I have to build two completely different decks!

I got my fiancee to play War of the Ring yesterday. It went about as well as can be expected, given the sheer difficulty of learning that game. She wound up winning by a hair and I think had a better grasp of it by the end. Remains to be seen if she'll play again though.

baelthazar wrote:Shame, I love the idea of Vlaada's games, but the execution is often maddening and the game overly long. I mean I can play 3 other games in the same time. I think Vlaada's games would be excellent PC games.

Which ones did you play? Mage Knight? The Dungeon series? I liked MK from the beginning, but it took two plays to not make basic mistakes, and it's now in my top 5. Through the Ages is my favorite game of all time.

Coop: Suburbia isn't something that would hold up to multiple solo plays, I think. It's also a bit too heavy for a gateway, since so many things can change during your turn. I had a great time with my first full multiplayer play of it yesterday, though.

Played Through the Ages with hepcat and loved it even though my head hurt afterwards. So much going on, especially when the invasions happened after I fell behind in military. Very tempted to do a game online.

SpaceLord wrote:Coop: Suburbia isn't something that would hold up to multiple solo plays, I think. It's also a bit too heavy for a gateway, since so many things can change during your turn. I had a great time with my first full multiplayer play of it yesterday, though.

That's too bad, but not unexpected on the solo play. It's so hard to find a good solo play experience, at least for me.

hepcat wrote:Mage Knight I'm leaving at home, though. We'd need to start at 5am if we wanted to play a full, 4 player game of that one.

4 player game on Friday went from 19:00 to 02:00. It's a lot more challenging with the expansion and a lot more thought will be going into your every move that is not attacking green stacks. I don't see that decision making process getting lighter by a lot either. I'd count on an average 4 player game taking five hours even after a few play throughs.

7 hours? holy shinola. maybe i'll hold off on that expansion for a while.

Jow wrote:7 hours? holy shinola. maybe i'll hold off on that expansion for a while.

It'll be quicker with less players, I'd imagine. Given how little of the game is interactive, I'd say experienced players would be an hour to an hour and a half per player. The problem is getting the experience, so that first game is going to come in around two hours per player as each player is desperately trying to find ways to avoid filling their decks with blood from bad risky combat choices.

Played a half game of Twilight Struggle last night (ran out of time, we're trying to not game until Midnight on a school night any more) last night. It was a learning game for my friend, and it pretty much has me convinced that I'm really not very good at the game. When we ended (turn 2 in the Mid War) I was ahead by about 10 VPs, but if you looked at the board it was a sea of red. I had a firm control of Europe, and he had the Middle East and Southeast Asia pretty well locked down for Russia, Asia was a toss-up, and we were just starting to fight it out in South and Central America.

I do blame a lot of my difficulties on spectacularly horrible coup attempt die rolls. I know that I attempted coups a good half dozen times, and I was never successful in any of them. I didn't roll above a 2 the whole time. And I was only successful in a single re-alignment roll. And, I never made a single roll in trying to advance in the Space Race. Sometimes the dice just aren't on your side.

LordMortis wrote:

hepcat wrote:Mage Knight I'm leaving at home, though. We'd need to start at 5am if we wanted to play a full, 4 player game of that one.

4 player game on Friday went from 19:00 to 02:00. It's a lot more challenging with the expansion and a lot more thought will be going into your every move that is not attacking green stacks. I don't see that decision making process getting lighter by a lot either. I'd count on an average 4 player game taking five hours even after a few play throughs.

redrun and I played a 2 player in around an hour and a half. There are rules in the expansion for a 5th player too.

LordMortis wrote:

Jow wrote:7 hours? holy shinola. maybe i'll hold off on that expansion for a while.

It'll be quicker with less players, I'd imagine. Given how little of the game is interactive, I'd say experienced players would be an hour to an hour and a half per player. The problem is getting the experience, so that first game is going to come in around two hours per player as each player is desperately trying to find ways to avoid filling their decks with blood from bad risky combat choices.

Ideally it should be around an hour +15-20 minutes per player IMO. That 7 hour game had a lot of smoke breaks which add time to the overall game.

hentzau wrote:I do blame a lot of my difficulties on spectacularly horrible coup attempt die rolls. I know that I attempted coups a good half dozen times, and I was never successful in any of them. I didn't roll above a 2 the whole time. And I was only successful in a single re-alignment roll. And, I never made a single roll in trying to advance in the Space Race. Sometimes the dice just aren't on your side.

I played a game of Summoner Wars like this once - this will forever live in my memory. The die rolls were going horrible for me all game, I couldn't get a hit to save my life. Toward the end of the game my opponent summoned a champion and ran up to attack one of my champions. He scored 5/5 hits and killed him. On my subsequent turn, I moved my summoner over to hit his champion - 0/4 hits. I couldn't believe it. I worked out the odds of that happening as less than 0.2%.

TS: dice have always plagued me in that game too, especially on the space race. There's one roll a couple of slots in where you need to roll a 1-4 to succeed and I have literally failed it like 6-7 times straight over a few games.

Summoner Wars is a thorn in my side for the same reason. I've gotten to the point with SW that I just don't play it anymore because the games run way too long for something that depends so highly on dice.

SpaceLord wrote:

baelthazar wrote:Shame, I love the idea of Vlaada's games, but the execution is often maddening and the game overly long. I mean I can play 3 other games in the same time. I think Vlaada's games would be excellent PC games.

Which ones did you play? Mage Knight? The Dungeon series? I liked MK from the beginning, but it took two plays to not make basic mistakes, and it's now in my top 5. Through the Ages is my favorite game of all time.

I played Mage Knight and Dungeon Petz. Dungeon Petz was an interesting game, but my wife and I found some of the elements a little irritating and she was not overly keen on hurting her pets. As a PC game, dungeon pets would be very very interesting. Better yet, an iPad port!

Actually, if you want to see my thoughts, I did a review video for Dungeon Petz: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=07S7TkSd-2Q" target="_blank

I was looking over my wishlist on CSI thinking, psshh I may as well just buy it all in one fell swoop and save my self some day dreaming. $657.93 for 29 in stock items. Ok, maybe I will spread that out a bit.

pitchcar mini was delivered today... looking forward to that with my 6 year old.