The Empire Strikes Back - Empire Victory

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:30 pm

I believe that's n-2, just outside Dooku threat range.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 12:57 pm

Unagi wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Unagi, Lagom Lite, and theohall vote for tru1cy before Remus shows up.
Humor me, Chaos:

So?

So why are we rushing the vote, AGAIN?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:00 pm

LordMortis wrote:I'll look for what gave me the scoop and tru1cy as team mates posts if I can find time.

You should have 6 days to do this, unless...

Hmmm...

Who lynched Grund in 24 hr?

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:07 pm

Chaosraven wrote:So why are we rushing the vote, AGAIN?

If I were to rush a vote it would be for fear of vader (which is a pretty big fear of mine actually) or that remus is lying and there are more than one shooter in the game.

As to finding the time, it's as much finding the commitment as it is the time. I have to find the time concurrent with a willingness to sort through those pages again.

What do you expect from leisurely decision making at this point?

Why do you want the vote linger?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:09 pm

Failed Attempt:

10 Grundbegriff <------------------- Jow, Coopasonic, Remus West, Lord Mortis, Theohall, Tru1cy, Unagi, El Guapo, Isgrimnur, Qantaga

10 Grundbegriff <-------------------- Theohall, Unagi, RMC, Triggercut, Coopasonic, Warpig, Lagom Lite, Lassr, Remus West, Austin

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:10 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:So why are we rushing the vote, AGAIN?
If I were to rush a vote it would be for fear of vader (which is a pretty big fear of mine actually) or that remus is lying and there are more than one shooter in the game.

As to finding the time, it's as much finding the commitment as it is the time. I have to find the time concurrent with a willingness to sort through those pages again.

What do you expect from leisurely decision making at this point?

Why do you want the vote linger?

"TO" linger.

I expect better discussion and investigation. Are we at the ennui stage of the game, where it's too much effort?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:13 pm

You ask that question on page 105?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:15 pm

Isgrimnur wrote:You ask that question on page 105?

Yes, because I go back to examine what happened based on new info.

We know Newcastle, Austin, and Scoop as Imperial.
We can eliminiate prior suspicion of those who died Good.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:18 pm

Chaosraven wrote:"TO" linger.

I expect better discussion and investigation. Are we at the ennui stage of the game, where it's too much effort?

If you can figure more out by going back piecing together 105 pages to find the more complex set up, more power to you. Do I have the patience to do it your time over six days? Probably not.

Of course it's not like you did a heck of a lot of voting at the games outset either. For instance back when I was keeping notes, those not interacting...

No Votes:
El Guapo, RMC, Chaosraven, Remus West, Scoop20906, Newcastle, Lagom Lite

Some nice company you keep in my early notes.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:26 pm

There ya go... Look back. Pull off the good dead and muse.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:27 pm

I still think Lassr is imperial.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 1:34 pm

Chaosraven wrote:I still think Lassr is imperial.

Ditto. I also think we are set up for tru1cy or LL today. I would be stubbornly against the either or choice set in my face, only Scoop makes me think that tru1cy is evil. I check this against my huge distrust of remus and

1) tru1cy feels guilty by scoop, a known imperial
2) if tru1cy evil then I feel pretty good about things
3) If remus good then we have two misses and oops
4) if remus evil then LL lynch is problematic
5) if we rush through the day and tru1cy is, say vader, and does not react then, bonus!
6) if we do not rush a Vader (or other shooter) kill then I get shot (Which is nothing you should trust)

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 2:50 pm

Chaosraven wrote:I still think Lassr is imperial.

your opinion is like assholes...it stinks!

I went back and scanned through the Scoop posts using the search. If there was some redirection away from tru1cy it did not stand out too much.
I did not thoroughly read each post though. LordMortis, did you have an example or are you just playing by memory?

The one thing that has stopped me from switching to tru1cy is some of my top suspects are currently voting for him. It could be just them throwing him under the bus though.

We are at N-2 so I'm in no hurry to switch.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:47 pm

Hard to remember what gave me impressions but here's the first deflection with the rapid imperial responses when I went over scoops posts:

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... 8#p1851278" target="_blank

His real vocal part of the game. Where he is talking to you.

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... 8#p1852158" target="_blank

He's getting his jokes off while tru1cy slides his vote in on the tail end of stess

The austin, Scoop, Tru1cy grouping again to justify killing stess.

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... 0#p1852910" target="_blank

Tru1cy's name comes up and after not defending himself, and then elects to defend himself from a lot scoop talk.

http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/viewt ... 9#p1858569" target="_blank

If just feels that way to me.

I'd go looking for more but I've already spent too much time on this.

And wow you and scoop had a strong adversarial relationship early game. I'm very much surprised that it took Coop to vote for Scoop to bring you on board.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 3:56 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:"TO" linger.

I expect better discussion and investigation. Are we at the ennui stage of the game, where it's too much effort?
If you can figure more out by going back piecing together 105 pages to find the more complex set up, more power to you. Do I have the patience to do it your time over six days? Probably not.

Of course it's not like you did a heck of a lot of voting at the games outset either. For instance back when I was keeping notes, those not interacting...

No Votes:
El Guapo, RMC, Chaosraven, Remus West, Scoop20906, Newcastle, Lagom Lite
Some nice company you keep in my early notes.

Chaosraven wrote:There ya go... Look back. Pull off the good dead and muse.

OK... Remove El Guapo - the only good dead in that list.

RMC, Chaosraven, Remus West, Scoop20906, Newcastle, Lagom Lite

I see two known dead Imperials and at least two suspected Imperials (LL and RW) along with CR - who has been doing the wall of text thing which could be a diversionary tactic - and RMC - no read.

However - tru1cy is not there and multiple known Imperials were prevailing upon us to not vote for him. Why? Rarely have I ever seen Newcastle use the "we should not lynch tru1cy, because he is silent" excuse. That is so NOT Newcastle.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:10 pm

LordMortis wrote: And wow you and scoop had a strong adversarial relationship early game. I'm very much surprised that it took Coop to vote for Scoop to bring you on board.

I couldn't see much deflection from tru1cy in those posts. Nothing that really stood out.

I was on Scoop early because he was acting strange. Not sure what you mean by the Coop comment.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:16 pm

Lassr wrote:I was on Scoop early because he was acting strange. Not sure what you mean by the Coop comment.

Yesterday. To get you to lynch Scoop it took Coop to bring you on board. If you were on to Scoop, I'd think you'd have been less hesitant yesterday.

I'm cut raven and his slowplay approach some slack.

Lassr

I'm likely to head back to tru1cy because he seems most evil but my vote for now stands where my heart is.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:23 pm

theohall wrote:Rarely have I ever seen Newcastle use the "we should not lynch tru1cy, because he is silent" excuse. That is so NOT Newcastle.

This, 100 times over.

I re-read where Newcastle accused us all of being 'lazy' when we suggested that we lynch truc1y

Newcastle has often been on record proclaiming the desire to lynch off the silent players. This commnet of his below is a joke.

Newcastle wrote:
Unagi wrote:I'm shocked. /sarcasm

Newcastle agrees with Remus, we shouldn't lynch tru1cy. And Scoops is "just his normal erratic self"??

In what forum?
i agree w/ remus in terms of why folks are going after truicy? I aint gettin evil vibes off truicy...i think its "low hanging" fruit...and kind of lazy actually....sort of like...."HEY LETS GO PICK ON THE SILENT ONE AND SEE IF WE CAN GET A TRAIN ON EM!...after all we know they arent talkin much...lets see if we can get em lynched before they say something". So yeah in that sense i see the same as Remus.

-and yeah, scoop just seems like scoop to me. So sue me.

-I think the reason you've been after Scoop this game is that A. its super easy to get a lynch train on scoop and i think you were expecting that this game. And hey if you set somethign up early int he game...then you know maybe near the end you can get a quicker than spit train on him. Basically i think youre picking on him Unagi.

As for me...god knows why you chose me....maybe because i am easy to batter around at times too and you were expecting me to cave in a bit. I dont know...not sure what youre syaing in the evil forum unagi. Why did you choose me as your cause celebre?

Why on earth would Wolf-Newcastle try and keep tru1cy alive, when just about everyone would accept the whole "hey, he needs to be tested at some point."

But what we have above is Newcastle making it quite clear that he thinks that anyone voting for tru1cy is doing it as a Lazy Wolf that's just OK with everyone piling on the quiet guy.

And yes, it would appear that we are waiting so that tru1cy can maybe force choke someone ??

Chaos, please tell me what information that Remus could POSSIBLY have shared that would have changed a single thing. Even a remote example? I mean - he, as C3P0 has alread told us that we have a Shooter (Vader), and that we have NO MORE SPECAILS waiting to be accidentally lynched.... So, what information (quite entirely UNLIKE the Grund example you are comparing it to) is it that we needed to wait for on Remus? I really don't get it.

Like LM (sorry, if I am putting words in your "I can't trust anyone" mouth, LM) , I actually am starting to feel like this delay is just tactical.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:27 pm

LordMortis wrote:
Lassr wrote:I was on Scoop early because he was acting strange. Not sure what you mean by the Coop comment.
Yesterday. To get you to lynch Scoop it took Coop to bring you on board. If you were on to Scoop, I'd think you'd have been less hesitant yesterday.

.

You are really reading a lot of hidden messages in these posts. Coop and I had no interaction on the Scoop vote. He voted for Scoop. I happen to vote for Scoop a little over an hour later. He said nothing to me to encourage me to vote for him. It was a matter of running out of time to lynch someone and the Lagom vote was going no where. I have voted for Scoop in the past and I voted for him again. I've said throughout the game that I thought he acted evil early in the game. I had just placed my voted on players I felt more comfortable voting for. Unlike some I do not place my vote on one player throughout the entire game. My opinion is dynamic.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:33 pm

Unagi wrote:
theohall wrote:Rarely have I ever seen Newcastle use the "we should not lynch tru1cy, because he is silent" excuse. That is so NOT Newcastle.
This, 100 times over.

I re-read where Newcastle accused us all of being 'lazy' when we suggested that we lynch truc1y

Newcastle has often been on record proclaiming the desire to lynch off the silent players. This commnet of his below is a joke.

Newcastle wrote:
Unagi wrote:I'm shocked. /sarcasm

Newcastle agrees with Remus, we shouldn't lynch tru1cy. And Scoops is "just his normal erratic self"??

In what forum?
i agree w/ remus in terms of why folks are going after truicy? I aint gettin evil vibes off truicy...i think its "low hanging" fruit...and kind of lazy actually....sort of like...."HEY LETS GO PICK ON THE SILENT ONE AND SEE IF WE CAN GET A TRAIN ON EM!...after all we know they arent talkin much...lets see if we can get em lynched before they say something". So yeah in that sense i see the same as Remus.

-and yeah, scoop just seems like scoop to me. So sue me.

-I think the reason you've been after Scoop this game is that A. its super easy to get a lynch train on scoop and i think you were expecting that this game. And hey if you set somethign up early int he game...then you know maybe near the end you can get a quicker than spit train on him. Basically i think youre picking on him Unagi.

As for me...god knows why you chose me....maybe because i am easy to batter around at times too and you were expecting me to cave in a bit. I dont know...not sure what youre syaing in the evil forum unagi. Why did you choose me as your cause celebre?

Why on earth would Wolf-Newcastle try and keep tru1cy alive, when just about everyone would accept the whole "hey, he needs to be tested at some point."

But what we have above is Newcastle making it quite clear that he thinks that anyone voting for tru1cy is doing it as a Lazy Wolf that's just OK with everyone piling on the quiet guy.

This is a very good find. Lagom and theohall voting for tru1cy still has me concerned.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:35 pm

Unagi wrote: I actually am starting to feel like this delay is just tactical.

My opinion is theohall may be Vader not tru1cy.

I'm willing to put him at N-1 and let's see what happens.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:37 pm

Unagi wrote:Like LM (sorry, if I am putting words in your "I can't trust anyone" mouth, LM) , I actually am starting to feel like this delay is just tactical.

I'll put it to you like this. Get two more votes on tru1cy and see if I'm around and jump on him before he responds.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 4:49 pm

Lassr wrote:Lagom and theohall voting for tru1cy still has me concerned.

With Lagom's move on Scoop yesterday, I'm looking at him as trying to 'throw one under the bus' and get some cred back.

Theohall- could be the same thing, but I will be honest, I'm cooling on him a little. a little.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:05 pm

Regarding remus: he would have (so-and-so is/isn't in the game), and the opportunity to check again today (an opportunity he MISSED on which day???). I just don't see the Need for Speed if we believe Remus is c3p0. If we don't believe him, we should have jumped him quick as he would be misleading us. Ya folla?

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:06 pm

True dat, but theo can be the same thing. I couldn't help, but feel that way when he listed 4, himself being included. The heat is on a few people and if some actions can be taken to increase some level of trust, it could buy them enough misses to win the game.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:20 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Regarding remus: he would have (so-and-so is/isn't in the game), and the opportunity to check again today (an opportunity he MISSED on which day???). I just don't see the Need for Speed if we believe Remus is c3p0. If we don't believe him, we should have jumped him quick as he would be misleading us. Ya folla?

Remus West already posted with his results from last night.

So what, exactly, are we waiting for now?

Lagom Lite · Post by **Lagom Lite** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:35 pm

Unagi wrote:
Lassr wrote:Lagom and theohall voting for tru1cy still has me concerned.
With Lagom's move on Scoop yesterday, I'm looking at him as trying to 'throw one under the bus' and get some cred back.

A solid theory - except I'm not evil.

I'd be okay with Lassr too, if that's how the wind blows.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:48 pm

No matter how guilty this makes me look.... Here is a handy-dandy reference of all the final vote tallies. IMO, it makes Remus West look guilty also with the 2nd to last vote on Grundbegriiff, not voting on the 1st Austin kill attempt, not voting Newcastle and not voting Scoop.

I think he is actually Thrawn and is staying off the Imperial votes to try and get them to the point where Vader can shoot.

Day 1

13 Stessier <---------------- Lagom Lite, Purge, Grundbegriff, Unagi, Lassr, Austin, RMC, Warpig, Tru1cy, Newcastle, Triggercut, Scoop20906, Coopasonic
7 Grundbegriff <----------- Mr. Bubbles, El Guapo, Chaosraven, Stessier, Theohall, Lord Mortis, Remus West
2 Austin <-------------------- Redrun, Isgrimnur
1 Redrun <------------------ Qantaga
1 Lagom Lite <------------- Jow

Day 2

6 Unagi <---------------------------- Newcastle, Warpig, Austin, Lagom Lite, Lassr, Mr. Bubbles
6 Grundbegriff <------------------- Jow, Remus West, Theohall, Tru1cy, Qantaga, Scoop20906
1 Scoop20906 <-------------------- RMC
1 Purge <---------------------------- Lord Mortis
1 Theohall <------------------------ Triggercut
5 Isgrimnur <------------------------ Coopasonic, Unagi, El Guapo, Chaosraven, Grundbegriff

No Votes:
2 <------------- Purge, Isgrimnur

Day 3

10 Grundbegriff <-------------------- Theohall, Unagi, RMC, Triggercut, Coopasonic, Warpig, Lagom Lite, Lassr, Remus West, Austin
1 Purge <----------------------------- Lord Mortis
1 Unagi <----------------------------- Grundbegriff

No Votes:

Everyone else

Day 4

9 Austin <------------------------ Lord Mortis, Coopasonic, Mr. Bubbles, Newcastle, Lassr, Chaosraven, Tru1cy, Unagi, Theohall
2 Purge <------------------------- Lagom Lite, Isgrimnur
1 Lagom Lite <------------------ Qantaga
1 Remus West <----------------- Scoop20906
1 Unagi <------------------------- Austin

No Votes:

5 <-------------- El Guapo, RMC, Purge, Warpig, Remus West

Day 5

10 Austin <------------------------ Mr. Bubbles, Newcastle, Lagom Lite, Isgrimnur, Tru1cy, Coopasonic, El Guapo, Warpig, Remus West, RMC
1 Unagi <------------------------- Austin

No Votes:

Everyone Else

Day 6

6 Newcastle <---------------------- Warpig, Lagom Lite, Lord Mortis, Lassr, Coopasonic, Chaosraven
4 Tru1cy <-------------------------- Unagi, RMC, Mr. Bubbles
2 Unagi <--------------------------- Tru1cy, Newcastle
1 Remus West <------------------- Theohall
1 Theohall <------------------------ Isgrimnur
1 Mr. Bubbles <-------------------- Remus West
1 Warpig <------------------------- Purge

No Votes:

1 No Vote <-------------------- Scoop20906

Day 7

8 Scoop20906 <-------------------------- Unagi, Lord Mortis, Warpig, Chaosraven, RMC, Coopasonic, Lassr, Isgrimnur
2 Lassr <---------------------------------- Lagom Lite, Remus West
1 Lagom Lite <--------------------------- Mr. Bubbles
1 Unagi <--------------------------------- Tru1cy
1 Tru1cy <-------------------------------- Theohall

No Votes:

1 No Votes <--------------- Scoop20906

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:53 pm

theohall wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Regarding remus: he would have (so-and-so is/isn't in the game), and the opportunity to check again today (an opportunity he MISSED on which day???). I just don't see the Need for Speed if we believe Remus is c3p0. If we don't believe him, we should have jumped him quick as he would be misleading us. Ya folla?
Remus West already posted with his results from last night.

So what, exactly, are we waiting for now?

Nothing.

The conversation was about the votes gathering before he showed up.

Please try to read along in *THIS* forum with the rest of us.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 5:55 pm

If you guys want to vote off somebody well ahead of schedule, do whatever you want.

I planned on rereading again with the knowledge we have of 3 Imperials.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:05 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
theohall wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Regarding remus: he would have (so-and-so is/isn't in the game), and the opportunity to check again today (an opportunity he MISSED on which day???). I just don't see the Need for Speed if we believe Remus is c3p0. If we don't believe him, we should have jumped him quick as he would be misleading us. Ya folla?
Remus West already posted with his results from last night.

So what, exactly, are we waiting for now?
Nothing.

The conversation was about the votes gathering before he showed up.

Please try to read along in *THIS* forum with the rest of us.

Yet the post I quoted is so far AFTER Remus West posted and never mentioned that he posted, as if there was still more to wait for from Remus West. Are you just conveniently leaving things out or is there some other motive?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:06 pm

Wow.

Whatever.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:09 pm

Unagi wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Unagi, Lagom Lite, and theohall vote for tru1cy before Remus shows up.
Humor me, Chaos:

So?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:10 pm

Unagi wrote:Chaos, please tell me what information that Remus could POSSIBLY have shared that would have changed a single thing. Even a remote example? I mean - he, as C3P0 has alread told us that we have a Shooter (Vader), and that we have NO MORE SPECAILS waiting to be accidentally lynched.... So, what information (quite entirely UNLIKE the Grund example you are comparing it to) is it that we needed to wait for on Remus? I really don't get it.

Chaosraven wrote:Regarding remus: he would have (so-and-so is/isn't in the game), and the opportunity to check again today (an opportunity he MISSED on which day???). I just don't see the Need for Speed if we believe Remus is c3p0. If we don't believe him, we should have jumped him quick as he would be misleading us. Ya folla?

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:11 pm

does that clear it up for you?

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:14 pm

Chaosraven wrote:does that clear it up for you?

I can't believe you are even trying.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:14 pm

No. You are discussing this so far removed from when Remus posted it seems as if you want to distract us from lynching tru1cy, when we have clear evidence of Imperials trying to stop us from lynching him.

Why don't you want us to lynch tru1cy?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:34 pm

Chaosraven wrote:If you guys want to vote off somebody well ahead of schedule, do whatever you want.

It's a deadline, not a schedule.

Chaosraven wrote:I planned on rereading again with the knowledge we have of 3 Imperials.

Is this new data you just got this morning or something???

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:35 pm

coopasonic wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:does that clear it up for you?
I can't believe you are even trying.

Coop, what are you talking about here ? 'even trying' what ?

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Tue Jun 19, 2012 6:41 pm

Chaosraven wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Regarding remus: he would have (so-and-so is/isn't in the game), and the opportunity to check again today (an opportunity he MISSED on which day???). I just don't see the Need for Speed if we believe Remus is c3p0. If we don't believe him, we should have jumped him quick as he would be misleading us. Ya folla?

So, since you aren't jumping on him (so as to avoid being mislead by him) - we should assume that you are "A Believer" - is that correct ?

Why CR, can't Remus be Evil AND also just be ignored for a day or 2.

If he's lynched Rebel - then one can put faith into his data, but you seem to be past that now. Because he claimed C3P0. on Day 7.

And, for the record - he could very EASILY be telling us the truth about the Emperor and the number of Special, but still be Evil.