Octopus Overlords

gilraen wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:44 pm

Zaxxon wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 1:31 pm Yes. But what I'm wondering is if--as now seems all but guaranteed--COVID is here to stay not for another year or two, but ten, twenty, fifty... At what point does the risk calculus change?

Personally, I'm waiting (and hoping) for more science and some kind of solution for long COVID. If they can figure out the cause of the damage and the treatment for that exact cause (not just treatment to ease symptoms) - that would be a whole different conversation. I didn't have too much of a problem, say, catching the flu from a coworker in the office. Sure, nothing pleasant about the flu, but for a reasonably healthy person, it wasn't a big deal. If I catch COVID again, I may be fine in a week, or I may end up with diabetes, or "brain fog" bad enough where I can't work anymore, or any other long COVID issue that will rob me of my quality of life for years to come. That's my calculus - and the type of dice I'm simply not willing to roll.

So, for instance, as much as I want to go to a hockey game, my enjoyment of it would be severely hampered with the possibility of infection constantly at the back of my mind (since I would be the only person wearing a mask). We've been to restaurants a handful of times since 2021, but that was basically a calculated risk for special occasions (family birthdays, an old friend in town for the first time in years, that sort of thing). No more just going out for dinner on a random night because we felt like it. But then again, I'm weird and antisocial and I can easily go for weeks, if not months, without leaving the house. So my mental health calculation would be very different from someone like LM, who is explicitly missing social activities.

All of this. You said exactly my thoughts on all of it.

I tested negative this morning, seven days after first testing positive. I still feel sick, but I most likely have Wife's cold. She's tested negative all week despite having most of the same symptoms I have. I've probably had a cold + covid this whole time, making it hard to assess how bad covid was.

I started feeling worse again yesterday so I tore into the Paxlovid that I was holding back. I'm negative after just three doses. Because I was near the expected end of covid anyway, and because of these lingering symptoms, it's hard to say how much credit Pax deserves. I'll finish the whole course anyway to maximize the odds that the SARS virus stays banished.

https://mobile.twitter.com/LMeyerson_MD ... 9204352002

The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC) is warning about an increase of a respiratory illness that’s linked to paralysis in kids. It’s called enterovirus D68, and the CDC says it’s currently on the rise in the U.S.

The CDC shared the news in its Morbidity and Mortality Weekly Report, which points out that enterovirus D68 cases started to rise this summer after an “extended period” of a low number of cases during the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.prevention.com/health/a4142 ... ction-cdc/


The tweet is a bit alarmist but my understanding is that D68 took a dive during COVID precautions and is rebounding now that COVID is completely over.

That was the lead story in today's Boston Globe.

Boston MedFlight, a nonprofit critical care medical transportation company, said it has seen a 60 percent increase in pediatric transfers so far in October compared to the same period a year ago. Over the first 19 days this month, five of the 73 pediatric transfers have been to hospitals out of state.

Growing caseloads have combined with a staffing shortage affecting nearly every part of the health care complex, making it harder to add beds.

As a result, local doctors are scrambling to find space for patients, and hospitals are having increasing difficulty finding beds for very sick pediatric patients. Sometimes, the closest beds available are in other states.

“The community hospitals will need to transport a patient to a higher level of care, and there just isn’t the capacity to take care of these patients,” said Maura Hughes, CEO of Boston MedFlight.

Some doctors speculate that the early rise in respiratory illnesses may be due to the elimination of COVID-19 mitigation strategies. Masking and remote learning may have saved lives, but they also prevented children from developing immunity to infections.

While COVID numbers are trending up in children statewide, that is not contributing significantly to a rise in pediatric hospitalizations.

Kraken wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 6:49 pm
Some doctors speculate that the early rise in respiratory illnesses may be due to the elimination of COVID-19 mitigation strategies. Masking and remote learning may have saved lives, but they also prevented children from developing immunity to infections.

While COVID numbers are trending up in children statewide, that is not contributing significantly to a rise in pediatric hospitalizations.

Better than it being Boston University accidentally setting loose the more deadly strain of COVID-19 which they created.

LawBeefaroni wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:02 pm The tweet is a bit alarmist but my understanding is that D68 took a dive during COVID precautions and is rebounding now that COVID is completely over.

Except COVID is not completely over. D68 is rebounding because COVID transmission prevention is completely over. The COVID transmission prevention also prevent transmission of other virus including D68.

Victoria Raverna wrote: Sun Oct 23, 2022 8:09 am

LawBeefaroni wrote: Sat Oct 22, 2022 5:02 pm The tweet is a bit alarmist but my understanding is that D68 took a dive during COVID precautions and is rebounding now that COVID is completely over.

Except COVID is not completely over. D68 is rebounding because COVID transmission prevention is completely over. The COVID transmission prevention also prevent transmission of other virus including D68.

I believe LB was just being glib with his ‘completely over’ comment.

I think you and him are saying the exact same thing.

Pretty sure on that.

Question, as my google-fu is failing.

As I recall, the original vaccine prevented Covid infection, at least prior to the emergence of the Omicron variant.

Anyone remember if that was the case?

Reason I'm asking is because of the NY Judge's ruling today. Which would be based on a falsehood, if that was the case during the time period.

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:40 pm Question, as my google-fu is failing.

As I recall, the original vaccine prevented Covid infection, at least prior to the emergence of the Omicron variant.

Anyone remember if that was the case?

Define 'prevent.' No vaccine (that I know of - Smoove will tell me why I'm wrong shortly) prevents disease. It just seriously reduces it, thereby making it one tool in prevention. The judge seems to be going on the idea that, since the vaccine isn't 100%, it does nothing.

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:48 pm

Pyperkub wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:40 pm Question, as my google-fu is failing.

As I recall, the original vaccine prevented Covid infection, at least prior to the emergence of the Omicron variant.

Anyone remember if that was the case?

Define 'prevent.' No vaccine (that I know of - Smoove will tell me why I'm wrong shortly) prevents disease. It just seriously reduces it, thereby making it one tool in prevention. The judge seems to be going on the idea that, since the vaccine isn't 100%, it does nothing.

Some actually do.

Some vaccines stop you getting symptomatic disease, but others stop you getting infected too.

The latter is known as "sterilising immunity". With sterilising immunity, the virus can't even gain a toehold in the body because the immune system stops the virus entering cells and replicating.

Article has more data on how even those which don't, do prevent the spread.

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:48 pm Define 'prevent.' No vaccine (that I know of - Smoove will tell me why I'm wrong shortly) prevents disease. It just seriously reduces it, thereby making it one tool in prevention. The judge seems to be going on the idea that, since the vaccine isn't 100%, it does nothing.

What you're referring to is "sterilizing immunity" - immunity that provides complete protection against infection. What we have now are vaccines that protect against disease (illness), specifically severe complications associated with disease (up to and including death).

Initially there was some hope that the COVID-19 vaccinations might be sterilizing (because of the mRNA delivery), but pretty quickly it was determined that wasn't the case.

And yes, I'm not going to throw down with legal analysis here but someone is confused and/or being manipulative. IMHO this isn't a decision about vaccine efficacy ("If it only prevents death in 90% of people and not 95%, you can't force me to take it!"); it should be about whether or not an employer (or similar entity) can mandate vaccines as part of your employment status or as a condition for employment or as part of being able to participate in something (like school or a dorm).

Smoove_B wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:58 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:48 pm Define 'prevent.' No vaccine (that I know of - Smoove will tell me why I'm wrong shortly) prevents disease. It just seriously reduces it, thereby making it one tool in prevention. The judge seems to be going on the idea that, since the vaccine isn't 100%, it does nothing.

What you're referring to is "sterilizing immunity" - immunity that provides complete protection against infection. What we have now are vaccines that protect against disease (illness), specifically severe complications associated with disease (up to and including death).

Initially there was some hope that the COVID-19 vaccinations might be sterilizing (because of the mRNA delivery), but pretty quickly it was determined that wasn't the case.

And yes, I'm not going to throw down with legal analysis here but someone is confused and/or being manipulative. IMHO this isn't a decision about vaccine efficacy ("If it only prevents death in 90% of people and not 95%, you can't force me to take it!"); it should be about whether or not an employer (or similar entity) can mandate vaccines as part of your employment status or as a condition for employment or as part of being able to participate in something (like school or a dorm).

My impression as well regarding the Judge's Opinion not being 100% based on Science. Thanks for the clarification.

Regarding vaccines that do provide it, this has been a point of debate. Historically the only two I'm aware of are vaccinations for measles and smallpox. However, there was an assumption that the vaccines were sterilizing after community cases dropped quickly following vaccination campaigns. I don't believe it's ever been proven (for either). If we could somehow create a sterilizing vaccine for something like SARS-CoV-2, it would likely be a technological game-changer. I think there's hope the nasal vaccines will do it (because of how they will be administered and the cells they're targeting), but until it happens...

That's just what I would expect a COVID fascist to say.

At the risk of veering into R&P, this core issue (what people believe vaccines should do vs what they actually do) is front and center for so much confusion. It's also fueling narratives that they're useless because people are still getting COVID-19 even after being vaccinated (and boosted).

So many things have been laid bare (which I know I've said before), but we're still circling the drain. I'm still trying to believe we're headed into another pandemic winter and everyone is still acting like we don't know how to dramatically change course on this. And you're going to say, no one cares, and I just don't think that's true. Unless polls are surveys are just made up.

It's gotten awkward to wear a mask

Y'know how it seems like 1/3 of the population has some kind of not-Covid respiratory infection going on right now? If only there was some way to avoid that. Without mildly inconveniencing oneself, I mean.

It's been a recurring discussion in this thread, but I just don't understand. I get why some people are upset they've been "forced" to wear masks and get vaccinated. Fine, have your angsty tantrum. Claim it's a slippery slope into health. But then, do the right thing for others' lives that causes you very little inconvenience. I don't care if you keep complaining under your mask, or with a syringe sticking out of your shoulder. The words coming out of your mouth are lunacy, but that's your right. Except, many of these people share a political alignment and they advocate for dangerous, inhumane policies every day of their lives. A lot of it's always been bizarre, and it's only recently we've begun to seriously question it as a society and see it through a new lens. But it's also gotten much worse. I don't know if it's emblematic of societal decline, or it's just an aspect of human nature we've always tolerated on some level. My opinions have transformed over my lifetime... on some issues I'm still an outsider, or I preach tolerance because we're all human and have to live with one another. But others have just dug in, and it seems like they truly have no regard for anyone but themselves. And I think many of them can't even see it, or why it's wrong. I try to understand, but it's still bizarre.

However, I've become a hypocrite. Or just lazy. Or more selfish. I've rarely worn a mask since the spring. I never shaved off my security beard. But then, I've had the luxury of spending almost all my time at home. Or that's how I excuse it to myself. I've only been on public transportation about a dozen times since the pandemic started. I've gone to one movie, and one concert. And that was in the last few months. But I'm seriously obese, and it got forty pounds worse during the first couple of years of the pandemic. I've begun the long journey of getting fit and losing weight in the past several months. But I drip with sweat even on a cool October day, just walking. Wearing a mask makes me feel even more horrible. Even when I try to do the right thing, the mask gets soaked, reducing its efficacy. And the average mask isn't designed to fit my giant cabeza, making it even more uncomfortable and useless. But if masks were easier for me to wear, I can't imagine I'd ever have stopped.

Here, 10-20% are still masking. Mostly seniors and Asians. But in whitesville where my parents live, it seems closer to 5%. But it's the lack of any attempt at social distancing that really pisses me off lately. If you can avoid being close to someone while shopping or while in line, why wouldn't you? Sometimes it's all I can do not to throw an elbow.

Our governments gave up long ago. The citizens who can make a difference are largely exhausted. I feel like I'm on a flaming bus about to drive off a cliff into a quarry. Jumping off will get you as dead as holding on to your seat, so I'm having trouble doing more than leaning back, closing my eyes, and emptying my flask. I'm tired of pointing out we didn't need to drive into those flames, or that when we did we shouldn't have stepped on the gas. I wish we could pile the bodies of every person whose death was contributed to by the inaction of others at their doorstep. But I know they'd find a way to ignore them.

Sudy wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 7:35 am Here, 10-20% are still masking. Mostly seniors and Asians. But in whitesville where my parents live, it seems closer to 5%. But it's the lack of any attempt at social distancing that really pisses me off lately. If you can avoid being close to someone while shopping or while in line, why wouldn't you? Sometimes it's all I can do not to throw an elbow.

While no one masks here they do still seem to respect my desire to social distance. Of course, I inevitably use a shopping cart as buffer and In line often stand 6-8 behind the person in front of me pulling my cart to keep at least a 4 foot buffer behind me.

Probably a bit too much to read in raw form (I'll watch for a useful explainer), but a study shared today in Science demonstrates immunity against SARS-CoV-2 from a nasal vaccination:

The SARS-CoV-2 pandemic has highlighted the need for vaccines that not only prevent disease, but also prevent transmission. Parenteral vaccines induce robust systemic immunity, but poor immunity at the respiratory mucosa. Here we describe the development of a vaccine strategy we term “prime and spike” that leverages existing immunity generated by primary vaccination (prime) to elicit mucosal immune memory within the respiratory tract using unadjuvanted intranasal spike boosters (spike). We show that prime and spike induces robust resident memory B and T cell responses, IgA at the respiratory mucosa, boosts systemic immunity, and completely protects mice with partial immunity from lethal SARS-CoV-2 infection. Using divergent spike proteins, prime and spike enables induction of cross-reactive immunity against sarbecoviruses.

Woo hoo!

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 12:22 pmimmunity against SARS-CoV-2 from a nasal vaccination

This might be a bit more readable:

‘Prime and Spike’ nasal vaccine strategy helps combat COVID

A Yale-designed nasal vaccine can help bolster immune responses to COVID-19 in previously vaccinated animals and reduce viral transmission, Yale researchers report Oct. 27 in the journal Science.

The new vaccine approach developed by Yale researchers — which is known as “Prime and Spike” — is designed to jumpstart immune response in the respiratory system, which is the first part of the body to be infected by the virus.

Intramuscular vaccine shots, which are what most people have received to protect against COVID-19 infection, provide a broad-based immune response throughout the body and help avert serious illness. However, that protection has tended to wane after about four months, leaving people susceptible to breakthrough infections and emerging variants.

The new “prime” and “spike” approach may help prevent breakthrough infections of vaccinated individuals by bolstering immune response within the mucosal lining of the respiratory tract, which are the first cells attacked by COVID-19. (“Prime” refers to the process of injecting the vaccine directly into the muscle, as is typically done. “Spike” refers to a follow-up vaccination with spike proteins, known to derive from the coronavirus, directly into the nostril, where the virus is known to enter the body.)

“The nasal vaccine promotes the development of immunity within the respiratory system, which can respond more quickly to infection,” said Dr. Benjamin Goldman-Israelow, assistant professor of medicine (infectious diseases) at the Yale School of Medicine and co-corresponding author of the paper. “By creating mucosal immunity, the vaccine helps stop the virus at its entry point, rather than waiting until later to fight back.”

Excellent! Thanks.

Now, let's pull a Tom Clancy and get that stuff into the 'Cool Mist' misting systems at sporting events. Especially NASCAR.

Blackhawk wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:31 pm Now, let's pull a Tom Clancy and get that stuff into the 'Cool Mist' misting systems at sporting events. Especially NASCAR.

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:34 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 3:31 pm Now, let's pull a Tom Clancy and get that stuff into the 'Cool Mist' misting systems at sporting events. Especially NASCAR.

You've got a 50/50 shot.

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:11 pm

You're still at 50/50 chance.

Maybe Herschel knew something.

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Oct 28, 2022 5:18 pm

Ding ding! That's what I was thinking of (probably because I just reread it earlier this year.)

For the record, the first video game had exactly the same plot. Thus the 50/50.

Got my omicron booster on Monday along with a flu shot. Guess I'd do anything for $20 in free groceries. LOL Took me almost an hour to find my covid shot record. Asked if the grocery store keeps a copy and they don't, they only have the particular shots you get with them. Not sure how I'd get a record of the injections I received at the mall if I ever needed to, so I made a copy of it this time. I'm guessing that a notary wouldn't verify a copy or if that would be valid?

em2nought wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:41 pm Got my omicron booster on Monday along with a flu shot. Guess I'd do anything for $20 in free groceries. LOL Took me almost an hour to find my covid shot record. Asked if the grocery store keeps a copy and they don't, they only have the particular shots you get with them. Not sure how I'd get a record of the injections I received at the mall if I ever needed to, so I made a copy of it this time. I'm guessing that a notary wouldn't verify a copy or if that would be valid?

You should be able to contact your state health department to get a complete record. They get notified whenever you got a shot and should be able to provide a consolidated card.

You should be able to login to the state immunization registry website and get your record.

Thanks!

gilraen wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:49 pm You should be able to login to the state immunization registry website and get your record.

Unfortunately, no:

Florida does not offer digital proof of vaccination. In May, 2021, Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law legislation that bans vaccine passports, among other things.

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:57 pm

gilraen wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:49 pm You should be able to login to the state immunization registry website and get your record.

Unfortunately, no:

Florida does not offer digital proof of vaccination. In May, 2021, Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law legislation that bans vaccine passports, among other things.

On the plus side, em2nought's freedom is intact.

El Guapo wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:09 pm

Smoove_B wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:57 pm

gilraen wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 1:49 pm You should be able to login to the state immunization registry website and get your record.

Unfortunately, no:

Florida does not offer digital proof of vaccination. In May, 2021, Gov. Ron DeSantis signed into law legislation that bans vaccine passports, among other things.

On the plus side, em2nought's freedom is intact.

Even if I'm somehow able to get myself removed as the guarantor on my old business partner's multiple credit cards, I'll still feel on the hook for this https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/585 ... -counting/ So I'll never be "free".

em2nought wrote: Wed Nov 02, 2022 2:51 pm
Even if I'm somehow able to get myself removed as the guarantor on my old business partner's multiple credit cards, I'll still feel on the hook for this https://thehill.com/opinion/finance/585 ... -counting/ So I'll never be "free".

I love that framing. It's totally not that every time the Republicans get into power they get taxes on the wealthy and drive up the deficit. No, it's the spending on repairing bridges that is killing this country!

Folks, we have a whole forum dedicated to R&P. Let's leave it out of this thread.