tesla motors

[Zaxxon]

Seems like a more accurate representation. The Tesla scorches everything off the line but is less impressive at higher speeds.

[Isgrimnur]

Tesla Powerwall

As was widely expected, Tesla announced that it is offering a home battery product, which people can use to store energy from their solar panels or to backstop their homes against blackouts, and also larger scale versions that could perform similar roles for companies or even parts of the grid.

For homeowners, the Tesla Powerwall will have a power capacity of either 10 kilowatt hours or 7 kilowatt hours, at a cost of either $ 3,500 or $ 3,000. The company says these are the costs for suppliers and don’t include the cost of installation and a power inverter, so customers could pay considerably more than that.

The battery, says Tesla, “increases the capacity for a household’s solar consumption, while also offering backup functionality during grid outages.” At the same time, the company said it will producing larger batteries for businesses and utility companies — listing “projects” with Texas-based Oncor and Southern California Edison.

[stessier]

The 10kwh is about a day, right? That's not too bad.

[Zaxxon]

The 10kwh is about a day, right? That's not too bad.

For the average household, it's about 30 kWh/day. Note that up to 9 can be tied together for more power-hungry homes. Lots of cool applications for this, but low on pricing detail.

Interesting that Amazon and Target are on board already.

[Isgrimnur]

Tesla Powerwall will supposedly result in third-world power ghettos.

But taking Tesla's upper-middle-class, technology-forward clients out of the power grid is like taking the upper middle class out of urban public school systems. These people—voters, taxpayers—will feel less connected to the infrastructure, and their money won't go to its improvement. Slowly, the infrastructure will crumble until we have a Third World-style electrical system where reliable power is only for those who can individually afford it. Tesla's new technology could help society in huge ways, but only if we acknowledge that we're one society. Otherwise, it will just accelerate our collapse.

If we deregulate the grid to encourage innovation, that will only make things worse. Just as we've seen with broadband, companies will only come in and provide competitive options where they see economic opportunity. High-income neighborhoods will get options; low-income neighborhoods and expensive-to-serve rural areas will be left to rot.

[noxiousdog]

Tesla Powerwall will supposedly result in third-world power ghettos.

But taking Tesla's upper-middle-class, technology-forward clients out of the power grid is like taking the upper middle class out of urban public school systems. These people—voters, taxpayers—will feel less connected to the infrastructure, and their money won't go to its improvement. Slowly, the infrastructure will crumble until we have a Third World-style electrical system where reliable power is only for those who can individually afford it. Tesla's new technology could help society in huge ways, but only if we acknowledge that we're one society. Otherwise, it will just accelerate our collapse.

If we deregulate the grid to encourage innovation, that will only make things worse. Just as we've seen with broadband, companies will only come in and provide competitive options where they see economic opportunity. High-income neighborhoods will get options; low-income neighborhoods and expensive-to-serve rural areas will be left to rot.

That might be the dumbest article I've ever read.

[Zaxxon]

Really comes down to:

The solution, I'm sorry to say, is to acknowledge we're all in this together. Prioritize bringing more solar into the grid rather than resisting it. Then, aggressively improve the power grid (and the roads, and the schools) and make sure everyone can share in the benefits of clean, renewable energy at lower costs than the old model. Acknowledge that sometimes you have to pay for other people's stuff because we're all part of the same society, and being in a more balanced society helps everyone. Then, improve our infrastructure competently. Are we capable of doing this as a society? Do we have the competence and the will?

Thus far the answer has been a pretty solid 'no.' But this is a change that's happening. SolarCity's blog post yesterday sums it up pretty well:

In Hawaii, people are frustrated with utilities for having put a hold on rooftop solar in their territories. We hear often from people seeking a solar battery system that will allow them to sever ties from their utility completely. As I’ve written before, we don’t think this is optimal for the grid. But when the choice is between being grid-connected without solar or being off the grid with rooftop solar and a solar battery system, the choice is clear. As a result, SolarCity plans to offer an off-grid solar battery system to eligible customers in Hawaii beginning in 2016.

Translation: get your shit together, utilities, or we will remove your customers. Hawaii is an edge case in this respect because they have outrageous electricity rates and a lot of sun, but in 5-10 years, the math will make sense in a lot more places.

As we were discussing a bunch of pages ago, it's entirely possible that Tesla ends up being an energy company that happens to also make cars.

+1

[Jeff V]

Data centers.

[theohall]

In Hawaii, people are frustrated with utilities for having put a hold on rooftop solar in their territories. We hear often from people seeking a solar battery system that will allow them to sever ties from their utility completely. As I’ve written before, we don’t think this is optimal for the grid. But when the choice is between being grid-connected without solar or being off the grid with rooftop solar and a solar battery system, the choice is clear. As a result, SolarCity plans to offer an off-grid solar battery system to eligible customers in Hawaii beginning in 2016.

Translation: get your shit together, utilities, or we will remove your customers. Hawaii is an edge case in this respect because they have outrageous electricity rates and a lot of sun, but in 5-10 years, the math will make sense in a lot more places.

As we were discussing a bunch of pages ago, it's entirely possible that Tesla ends up being an energy company that happens to also make cars.

+1

Interestingly, Helco (Hawaii Electric Co) uses offline energy storage (Li-Ion) which the company I currently work for provides. We deal with all kinds of different things - additional power for oil rigs, off-grid power for cell towers, power containers to support grid operations, off-grid containers for power in remote areas (like way North in Canada and Alaska), some defense applications, off-grid power for some schools in Europe, energy storage for wind farms, plus stuff I still have no clue about.

The big issue with Li-Ion, especially in the home, is safety. Curious as to how Tesla has handled some of those requirements.

[Edward]

Hey, did you see the new Tesla "home" rechargeable battery. It just came out for home-use, and allows residents to charge battery during off peak hours or use solar energy.
Sounds like something to try. I thought great during power outage and save on utility costs.

[DocDarm]

Yup, we heard. Check about 9 posts up.

[em2nought]

Tesla Powerwall

Up until now what have they used? Deep cycle golf cart batteries? If so, this could be very good because having seen golf carts in operation, those batteries really suck.

[Zaxxon]

Tesla hires the first 12 'real' Gigafactory employees. RGJ has a cool timeline of the progress thus far at the top of the article, as well.

[LordMortis]

I think this is the first bad press ever

http://www.roadandtrack.com/new-cars/ca ... a-model-s/

I've always found automotive computer systems to be scary. I was particularly taken back when NOVA Science now did a piece on a hacking cars maybe five years ago and they showed and advocacy group (I the the one <Scorpion> is based loosely on) take over and actually drive a car (poorly) from hacking its OnSt*r and controlling its driver assist and computer braking from remote.

Not too long after was the big Toyota shaming and recalls and since then pretty much every auto maker is taking their turn.

Tesla escapes the shaming because this hack was done internally and not by remote.

Still I hate to be doing 50 or 80 and think that a programming glitch can make my car go all Maximum Overdrive on me and totally take away all manual and mechanical controls.

[LawBeefaroni]

Still I hate to be doing 50 or 80 and think that a programming glitch can make my car go all Maximum Overdrive on me and totally take away all manual and mechanical controls.

I had a non-computer based '89 Grand Marquis throttle stick on me. She wanted to go 90 down a city street. After the brakes started smoking, I popped her in neutral and she died.

I do not relish handing even more control over to them.

Not too long after was the big Toyota shaming and recalls and since then pretty much every auto maker is taking their turn.

Most recently, Jeep.

[LordMortis]

I popped her in neutral and she died.

That's the exact kind of control I fear losing.

[Zaxxon]

Not great news for Tesla (but less of a downer than yesterday's earnings call, sheesh). Makes for a good compare/contrast with Jeep, though.

Sounds like Tesla has some areas to improve (unsigned patches? Yikes), but were in way better shape than Jeep.

[Paingod]

I popped her in neutral and she died.

That's the exact kind of control I fear losing.

I advocate self-driving cars for every ninny on the road that can't stay off their phones. I'm not overly worried if they get hacked and start driving erratically or run off the road - until they get hacked it'll at least make them better drivers, and even after the hack they'll just be back where they started.

In seriousness, though, I really embrace the concept of getting into my car at home and being allowed to do whatever I want until I have to get out at the other end of the drive. Living in the boonies, I've completely lost any enthusiasm for driving and it's become a chore to get anywhere useful (1 hour, mostly down a highway). My mind shuts off and I go into autopilot as soon as I hit 70.

[LordMortis]

I popped her in neutral and she died.

That's the exact kind of control I fear losing.

I advocate self-driving cars for every ninny on the road that can't stay off their phones. I'm not overly worried if they get hacked and start driving erratically or run off the road - until they get hacked it'll at least make them better drivers, and even after the hack they'll just be back where they started.

In seriousness, though, I really embrace the concept of getting into my car at home and being allowed to do whatever I want until I have to get out at the other end of the drive. Living in the boonies, I've completely lost any enthusiasm for driving and it's become a chore to get anywhere useful (1 hour, mostly down a highway). My mind shuts off and I go into autopilot as soon as I hit 70.

I love the idea of having my own personal street car... car?... personalized to go where ever I want. The idea of just napping or playing MPQ or something else equally mindless on the drive to and from work every day sounds awesome. That wont remove my fear of failure when there are millions of independent bullets moving at 80 MPH with billions of common points of failure that would result in things get very messy very quickly.

[LawBeefaroni]

I popped her in neutral and she died.

That's the exact kind of control I fear losing.

I advocate self-driving cars for every ninny on the road that can't stay off their phones. I'm not overly worried if they get hacked and start driving erratically or run off the road - until they get hacked it'll at least make them better drivers, and even after the hack they'll just be back where they started.

In seriousness, though, I really embrace the concept of getting into my car at home and being allowed to do whatever I want until I have to get out at the other end of the drive. Living in the boonies, I've completely lost any enthusiasm for driving and it's become a chore to get anywhere useful (1 hour, mostly down a highway). My mind shuts off and I go into autopilot as soon as I hit 70.

I love the idea of having my own personal street car... car?... personalized to go where ever I want. The idea of just napping or playing MPQ or something else equally mindless on the drive to and from work every day sounds awesome. That wont remove my fear of failure when there are millions of independent bullets moving at 80 MPH with billions of common points of failure that would result in things get very messy very quickly.

It will only work when there are a majority of autonomous cars on the road. Think herd immunity.

But here's one for you, LM. What happens if/when autonomous truck and cars take over?
Truck drivers, out of work.
Taxi/Livery/Uber drivers, out of work.
Automotive insurance industry decimated.
Auto collision industry decimated.
And so on.

The transition is already beginning to happen. Elon Musk, Tesla Motor’s CEO, says that their 2015 models will be able to self-drive 90% of the time. And major automakers aren’t far behind—according to Bloomberg News, GM’s 2017 Cadillac is planned to feature “technology that takes control of steering, acceleration and braking at highway speeds of 70 miles per hour or in stop-and-go congested traffic.”

Both Google and Tesla predict that fully-autonomous cars—what Musk describes as “true autonomous driving where you could literally get in the car, go to sleep, and wake up at your destination”—will be available to the public by 2020.
...

Ancillary industries such as the $198 billion automobile insurance market, $98 billion automotive finance market, $100 billion parking industry, and the $300 billion automotive aftermarket will collapse as demand for their services evaporates. We will see the obsolescence of rental car companies, public transportation systems, and, good riddance, parking, and speeding tickets.

But we will see the transformation of far more than just consumer transportation: self-driving semis, buses, earth movers, and delivery trucks could obviate the need for professional drivers and the support industries that surround them.

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics lists that 915,000 people are employed in motor vehicles and parts manufacturing. Truck, bus, delivery, and taxi drivers account for nearly 6 million professional driving jobs. Virtually all of these jobs will be eliminated within 10-15 years, and this list is by no means exhaustive.

[LordMortis]

It'll be a problem, that's for sure. There is going to come a point where we will need some serious bread and circuses in the US as we become less and less dependent on laborers and that point looks to be in my lifetime.

[LawBeefaroni]

It'll be a problem, that's for sure. There is going to come a point where we will need some serious bread and circuses in the US as we become less and less dependent on laborers and that point looks to be in my lifetime.

Everyone will get a minimum salary just for existing. It's the only way.

[noxiousdog]

It'll be a problem, that's for sure. There is going to come a point where we will need some serious bread and circuses in the US as we become less and less dependent on laborers and that point looks to be in my lifetime.

Everyone will get a minimum salary just for existing. It's the only way.

Yep. The good news is that it won't last long. Either we will live in nirvana with AI or we will be killed by them

[RunningMn9]

I don't get the lack of comfort with fly-by-wire systems in our cars, but we are totally cool with it when we are hurtling through the air at high speed/altitude?

[LordMortis]

I don't get the lack of comfort with fly-by-wire systems in our cars, but we are totally cool with it when we are hurtling through the air at high speed/altitude?

How much more care and expense goes into the maintenance of high flying thing thing that can hit very little when it's up there vs the maintenance of a car?

And even then, I don't fly much and am not exactly comfortable when I do.

[Isgrimnur]

You mean like a union shop working a government contract that fights to keep failed drug test users on the job fixing planes that train US and NATO pilots?

Expense, I'll give you. Care, I would have to see numbers.

[RunningMn9]

If I had to guess, airplanes are ok because as passengers we've already ceded direct control. At that point it matters less whether or not the pilot has also ceded direct control.

When I press the brake, I expect the car to slow down. As long as that happens 100% of the time I press the brake, I don't care whether I am physically connected to the brakes or using a pressure switch to command brake elves to slow me down.

And since neither action will result in me slowing down 100% of the time (mechanical systems fail too), I wouldn't even think twice about it.

[Isgrimnur]

Model X SUV

Good news: The Tesla Model X SUV launched Tuesday night. With so much already known about it since its original announcement 31 months ago, the surprise was how close the Model X comes to the sibling Tesla Model S on economy. EPA figures announced Monday give the Model X with the larger 90-kWh battery a range of 250-257 miles — not far off from the 253-270 mile range of the Model S.
...
Tesla also delivered the first half-dozen Model X vehicles to customers, and at the same time said civilians who get in line today for a Model X can expect delivery about a year from now. The price could be as low as $70,000, but the nicely equipped Signature edition will be $132,000.
...
The Tesla Model X measures 197 inches long, in the sweet spot of midsize SUVs such as the Porsche Cayenne (191 inches), BMW X5 / BMW X6 (192 inches), or Volvo XC90 (195 inches).
...
At Monday’s introduction, the gull wing doors, or Falcon Wing doors as Tesla calls them, were a highlight. As well they should be since their complexity was one cause of the multiple delays from the initially planned 2013 then 2014 ship dates.
...
This new millennium falcon door is double-hinged, so the car be parked 12 inches from a wall or other car. How do you know you won’t whack another car, or the garage door? Tesla put an ultrasonic sensor on each door and a third on the roof to track the door’s progress and stop if it’s about to hit something. That’s a lot cooler than, say, manually setting the max height for an SUV’s rear liftgate.
...
All Tesla Model X vehicles are all-wheel drive with 259 hp front and rear electric motors (Model X 90D), or 503 hp for the rear motor on the performance model P90D. The cockpit can be ordered in a 2-3-2 or 2-2-2 seating arrangement. Either way, the middle-row seats are on chromed pedestals offering lots of adjustments.

[Isgrimnur]

[wonderpug]

"Unfortunately, if you choose to enter the car through the doors, the battery will drain to empty in the process."

[Biyobi]

"Unfortunately, if you choose to enter the car through the doors, the battery will drain to empty in the process."

+1 My first thought was "how many times can you open the doors before it dies".

[Carpet_pissr]

There's always another way:

[LordMortis]

Isn't that just begging to get dings all over your smug car? And maybe worse if the guy parked to the right of you if feeling the urge to fight prick with raging asshole.

[El Guapo]

The price could be as low as $70,000

As low as $70,000? It's like they're giving them away!

[LawBeefaroni]

Going to be interesting how the doors handle street parking in heavy traffic roads. Bicycles are going to love that.

[Zaxxon]

Isn't that just begging to get dings all over your smug car? And maybe worse if the guy parked to the right of you if feeling the urge to fight prick with raging asshole.

The doors will not hit anything; they have sensors that detect obstacles and alter the angle/stop early. No raging asshole defense, though.

[LawBeefaroni]

Isn't that just begging to get dings all over your smug car? And maybe worse if the guy parked to the right of you if feeling the urge to fight prick with raging asshole.

The doors will not hit anything; they have sensors that detect obstacles and alter the angle/stop early. No raging asshole defense, though.

I think he means dings from the other car that you parked 6 inches away from. I mean it's great that you can get in and out and all, but if you park so that I can't get back in my car, that's a dick move.

[Zaxxon]

Well, yeah. And also, I never quite got the point of that demo. I mean it's great that the passengers can get out, but... the driver can't.

[Scraper]

Well, yeah. And also, I never quite got the point of that demo. I mean it's great that the passengers can get out, but... the driver can't.

You guys are taking the demo way too literally. It's not saying you should park like that, it's showing you just how little space the doors actually need to open.

[Zaxxon]

That's true. I've learned over the years to take what Tesla says quite figuratively. Deadlines, especially.