Octopus Overlords

As was widely expected, Tesla announced that it is offering a home battery product, which people can use to store energy from their solar panels or to backstop their homes against blackouts, and also larger scale versions that could perform similar roles for companies or even parts of the grid.

For homeowners, the Tesla Powerwall will have a power capacity of either 10 kilowatt hours or 7 kilowatt hours, at a cost of either $ 3,500 or $ 3,000. The company says these are the costs for suppliers and don’t include the cost of installation and a power inverter, so customers could pay considerably more than that.

The battery, says Tesla, “increases the capacity for a household’s solar consumption, while also offering backup functionality during grid outages.” At the same time, the company said it will producing larger batteries for businesses and utility companies — listing “projects” with Texas-based Oncor and Southern California Edison.

stessier wrote:The 10kwh is about a day, right? That's not too bad.

But taking Tesla's upper-middle-class, technology-forward clients out of the power grid is like taking the upper middle class out of urban public school systems. These people—voters, taxpayers—will feel less connected to the infrastructure, and their money won't go to its improvement. Slowly, the infrastructure will crumble until we have a Third World-style electrical system where reliable power is only for those who can individually afford it. Tesla's new technology could help society in huge ways, but only if we acknowledge that we're one society. Otherwise, it will just accelerate our collapse.

If we deregulate the grid to encourage innovation, that will only make things worse. Just as we've seen with broadband, companies will only come in and provide competitive options where they see economic opportunity. High-income neighborhoods will get options; low-income neighborhoods and expensive-to-serve rural areas will be left to rot.

Isgrimnur wrote:Tesla Powerwall will supposedly result in third-world power ghettos.

But taking Tesla's upper-middle-class, technology-forward clients out of the power grid is like taking the upper middle class out of urban public school systems. These people—voters, taxpayers—will feel less connected to the infrastructure, and their money won't go to its improvement. Slowly, the infrastructure will crumble until we have a Third World-style electrical system where reliable power is only for those who can individually afford it. Tesla's new technology could help society in huge ways, but only if we acknowledge that we're one society. Otherwise, it will just accelerate our collapse.

If we deregulate the grid to encourage innovation, that will only make things worse. Just as we've seen with broadband, companies will only come in and provide competitive options where they see economic opportunity. High-income neighborhoods will get options; low-income neighborhoods and expensive-to-serve rural areas will be left to rot.

Isg's article dude wrote:The solution, I'm sorry to say, is to acknowledge we're all in this together. Prioritize bringing more solar into the grid rather than resisting it. Then, aggressively improve the power grid (and the roads, and the schools) and make sure everyone can share in the benefits of clean, renewable energy at lower costs than the old model. Acknowledge that sometimes you have to pay for other people's stuff because we're all part of the same society, and being in a more balanced society helps everyone. Then, improve our infrastructure competently. Are we capable of doing this as a society? Do we have the competence and the will?

Peter Rive wrote:In Hawaii, people are frustrated with utilities for having put a hold on rooftop solar in their territories. We hear often from people seeking a solar battery system that will allow them to sever ties from their utility completely. As I’ve written before, we don’t think this is optimal for the grid. But when the choice is between being grid-connected without solar or being off the grid with rooftop solar and a solar battery system, the choice is clear. As a result, SolarCity plans to offer an off-grid solar battery system to eligible customers in Hawaii beginning in 2016.

Zaxxon of the past wrote:As we were discussing a bunch of pages ago, it's entirely possible that Tesla ends up being an energy company that happens to also make cars.

Zaxxon wrote:

Peter Rive wrote:In Hawaii, people are frustrated with utilities for having put a hold on rooftop solar in their territories. We hear often from people seeking a solar battery system that will allow them to sever ties from their utility completely. As I’ve written before, we don’t think this is optimal for the grid. But when the choice is between being grid-connected without solar or being off the grid with rooftop solar and a solar battery system, the choice is clear. As a result, SolarCity plans to offer an off-grid solar battery system to eligible customers in Hawaii beginning in 2016.

Translation: get your shit together, utilities, or we will remove your customers. Hawaii is an edge case in this respect because they have outrageous electricity rates and a lot of sun, but in 5-10 years, the math will make sense in a lot more places.

Zaxxon of the past wrote:As we were discussing a bunch of pages ago, it's entirely possible that Tesla ends up being an energy company that happens to also make cars.

+1

Isgrimnur wrote:Tesla Powerwall

LordMortis wrote: Still I hate to be doing 50 or 80 and think that a programming glitch can make my car go all Maximum Overdrive on me and totally take away all manual and mechanical controls.

LordMortis wrote: Not too long after was the big Toyota shaming and recalls and since then pretty much every auto maker is taking their turn.

LawBeefaroni wrote:I popped her in neutral and she died.

LordMortis wrote:

LawBeefaroni wrote:I popped her in neutral and she died.

That's the exact kind of control I fear losing.

Paingod wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

LawBeefaroni wrote:I popped her in neutral and she died.

That's the exact kind of control I fear losing.

I advocate self-driving cars for every ninny on the road that can't stay off their phones. I'm not overly worried if they get hacked and start driving erratically or run off the road - until they get hacked it'll at least make them better drivers, and even after the hack they'll just be back where they started.

In seriousness, though, I really embrace the concept of getting into my car at home and being allowed to do whatever I want until I have to get out at the other end of the drive. Living in the boonies, I've completely lost any enthusiasm for driving and it's become a chore to get anywhere useful (1 hour, mostly down a highway). My mind shuts off and I go into autopilot as soon as I hit 70.

LordMortis wrote:

Paingod wrote:

LordMortis wrote:

LawBeefaroni wrote:I popped her in neutral and she died.

That's the exact kind of control I fear losing.

I advocate self-driving cars for every ninny on the road that can't stay off their phones. I'm not overly worried if they get hacked and start driving erratically or run off the road - until they get hacked it'll at least make them better drivers, and even after the hack they'll just be back where they started.

In seriousness, though, I really embrace the concept of getting into my car at home and being allowed to do whatever I want until I have to get out at the other end of the drive. Living in the boonies, I've completely lost any enthusiasm for driving and it's become a chore to get anywhere useful (1 hour, mostly down a highway). My mind shuts off and I go into autopilot as soon as I hit 70.

I love the idea of having my own personal street car... car?... personalized to go where ever I want. The idea of just napping or playing MPQ or something else equally mindless on the drive to and from work every day sounds awesome. That wont remove my fear of failure when there are millions of independent bullets moving at 80 MPH with billions of common points of failure that would result in things get very messy very quickly.

The transition is already beginning to happen. Elon Musk, Tesla Motor’s CEO, says that their 2015 models will be able to self-drive 90% of the time. And major automakers aren’t far behind—according to Bloomberg News, GM’s 2017 Cadillac is planned to feature “technology that takes control of steering, acceleration and braking at highway speeds of 70 miles per hour or in stop-and-go congested traffic.”

Both Google and Tesla predict that fully-autonomous cars—what Musk describes as “true autonomous driving where you could literally get in the car, go to sleep, and wake up at your destination”—will be available to the public by 2020.
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Ancillary industries such as the $198 billion automobile insurance market, $98 billion automotive finance market, $100 billion parking industry, and the $300 billion automotive aftermarket will collapse as demand for their services evaporates. We will see the obsolescence of rental car companies, public transportation systems, and, good riddance, parking, and speeding tickets.

But we will see the transformation of far more than just consumer transportation: self-driving semis, buses, earth movers, and delivery trucks could obviate the need for professional drivers and the support industries that surround them.

The US Bureau of Labor Statistics lists that 915,000 people are employed in motor vehicles and parts manufacturing. Truck, bus, delivery, and taxi drivers account for nearly 6 million professional driving jobs. Virtually all of these jobs will be eliminated within 10-15 years, and this list is by no means exhaustive.

LordMortis wrote:It'll be a problem, that's for sure. There is going to come a point where we will need some serious bread and circuses in the US as we become less and less dependent on laborers and that point looks to be in my lifetime.

LawBeefaroni wrote:

LordMortis wrote:It'll be a problem, that's for sure. There is going to come a point where we will need some serious bread and circuses in the US as we become less and less dependent on laborers and that point looks to be in my lifetime.

Everyone will get a minimum salary just for existing. It's the only way.

RunningMn9 wrote:I don't get the lack of comfort with fly-by-wire systems in our cars, but we are totally cool with it when we are hurtling through the air at high speed/altitude?

Good news: The Tesla Model X SUV launched Tuesday night. With so much already known about it since its original announcement 31 months ago, the surprise was how close the Model X comes to the sibling Tesla Model S on economy. EPA figures announced Monday give the Model X with the larger 90-kWh battery a range of 250-257 miles — not far off from the 253-270 mile range of the Model S.
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Tesla also delivered the first half-dozen Model X vehicles to customers, and at the same time said civilians who get in line today for a Model X can expect delivery about a year from now. The price could be as low as $70,000, but the nicely equipped Signature edition will be $132,000.
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The Tesla Model X measures 197 inches long, in the sweet spot of midsize SUVs such as the Porsche Cayenne (191 inches), BMW X5 / BMW X6 (192 inches), or Volvo XC90 (195 inches).
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At Monday’s introduction, the gull wing doors, or Falcon Wing doors as Tesla calls them, were a highlight. As well they should be since their complexity was one cause of the multiple delays from the initially planned 2013 then 2014 ship dates.
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This new millennium falcon door is double-hinged, so the car be parked 12 inches from a wall or other car. How do you know you won’t whack another car, or the garage door? Tesla put an ultrasonic sensor on each door and a third on the roof to track the door’s progress and stop if it’s about to hit something. That’s a lot cooler than, say, manually setting the max height for an SUV’s rear liftgate.
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All Tesla Model X vehicles are all-wheel drive with 259 hp front and rear electric motors (Model X 90D), or 503 hp for the rear motor on the performance model P90D. The cockpit can be ordered in a 2-3-2 or 2-2-2 seating arrangement. Either way, the middle-row seats are on chromed pedestals offering lots of adjustments.

wonderpug wrote:"Unfortunately, if you choose to enter the car through the doors, the battery will drain to empty in the process."

Isgrimnur wrote: The price could be as low as $70,000

LordMortis wrote:Isn't that just begging to get dings all over your smug car? And maybe worse if the guy parked to the right of you if feeling the urge to fight prick with raging asshole.

Zaxxon wrote:

LordMortis wrote:Isn't that just begging to get dings all over your smug car? And maybe worse if the guy parked to the right of you if feeling the urge to fight prick with raging asshole.

The doors will not hit anything; they have sensors that detect obstacles and alter the angle/stop early. No raging asshole defense, though.

Zaxxon wrote:Well, yeah. And also, I never quite got the point of that demo. I mean it's great that the passengers can get out, but... the driver can't.