[WW] Crimson Moon III - Game ends in a Draw?

[Austin]

"roles" are identities, but confer no actual abilities.
the nine roles: Butcher, Baker, CandlestickMaker, Poet, Painter, Thatcher, Blacksmith, Ditchdigger, and Carpenter.

Game begins on Night One.

That's 9 roles for 9 villagers.

What are those secondary professions again, Austin?

I don't know, I didn't get a profession.

[Unagi]

You've reached too far and probably won't believe me today, what if I PM'd you tomorrow?

My honest answer is, I would PM chaosraven and tell him you've broken a game rule, as - You Are Not The Seer Austin.

[Remus West]

So. To recap.

On day one, Austin is sitting with 4 votes, a precarious situation. He sits at 4 votes for almost a day and a half.

Those 4 votes:

1. tru1cy
2. pr0ner
3. Unagi
4. Lassr

(Votes are listed in the order they were registered.) For you scoring at home, that's three innocents and one person we don't know about. sitting on Austin.

I see 1 innocent we are sure is innocent. I also see at least 1 wolf. You analysis is horrid. You refuse to see how Austin, as Seer, can use his PM ability to prove himself TOMORROW so should not be lynched today. If you are so sure of your theory then you should jump at the chance to have it proven to the entire village. Maybe if I tease you with a stick you'll jump for it? Get the stick boy, get the stick.

[triggercut]

"roles" are identities, but confer no actual abilities.
the nine roles: Butcher, Baker, CandlestickMaker, Poet, Painter, Thatcher, Blacksmith, Ditchdigger, and Carpenter.

Game begins on Night One.

That's 9 roles for 9 villagers.

What are those secondary professions again, Austin?

I don't know, I didn't get a profession.

So you're a wolf.

There it is, folks.

[Austin]

"roles" are identities, but confer no actual abilities.
the nine roles: Butcher, Baker, CandlestickMaker, Poet, Painter, Thatcher, Blacksmith, Ditchdigger, and Carpenter.

Game begins on Night One.

That's 9 roles for 9 villagers.

What are those secondary professions again, Austin?

I don't know, I didn't get a profession.

So you're a wolf.

There it is, folks.

I am the seer. I didn't get a plumber, type role.

Edit: Can someone else explain the rules to Trig please. Please?

[Remus West]

"roles" are identities, but confer no actual abilities.
the nine roles: Butcher, Baker, CandlestickMaker, Poet, Painter, Thatcher, Blacksmith, Ditchdigger, and Carpenter.

Game begins on Night One.

That's 9 roles for 9 villagers.

What are those secondary professions again, Austin?

9 roles. 12 players. Priest, Seer, Coroner get no role. That leave everyone else. Which includes the wolves. Wolves get roles. Nice math skills though.

[triggercut]

I don't know, I didn't get a profession.

I should repeat this one.

BLUNDER by a wolf.

Wolves don't get professions. Villagers, including the three powered villagers get a ROLE/role. In other words, our SEER, CORONER, and PRIEST is also a "profession".

Oopsie, wolf boy.

Get on with the hanging.

[Austin]

I don't know, I didn't get a profession.

I should repeat this one.

BLUNDER by a wolf.

Wolves don't get professions. Villagers, including the three powered villagers get a ROLE/role. In other words, our SEER, CORONER, and PRIEST is also a "profession".

Oopsie, wolf boy.

Get on with the hanging.

Oh now you're reaching.

[Remus West]

"roles" are identities, but confer no actual abilities.
the nine roles: Butcher, Baker, CandlestickMaker, Poet, Painter, Thatcher, Blacksmith, Ditchdigger, and Carpenter.

Game begins on Night One.

That's 9 roles for 9 villagers.

What are those secondary professions again, Austin?

I don't know, I didn't get a profession.

So you're a wolf.

There it is, folks.

Uh, check the rules again. You are making a fool of yourself.

3 Werewolves - Allowed to PM at any time, must choose one NonWerewolf at Night to Kill. - given "roles"


9 NonWerewolves -
1 Seer - at night must submit one name to check for Werewolf, unless he chooses to PM one other player that following DAY, either way, Target is chosen at Night. If either Target or Seer is killed no result will be given.
1 Priest - Gets a Village Confession each DAY. Confession is Random and may include Dead or previously Confessed Players.
1 Coroner - MAY submit name of Dead Player to Identify
6 Regular Normal Villagers - given "roles"

[Remus West]

I don't know, I didn't get a profession.

I should repeat this one.

BLUNDER by a wolf.

Wolves don't get professions. Villagers, including the three powered villagers get a ROLE/role. In other words, our SEER, CORONER, and PRIEST is also a "profession".

Oopsie, wolf boy.

Get on with the hanging.

See other post. You are done.

[Austin]

He's just adding confusion. I don't practice a trade. Is that wording good enough for you? I seer; that's what I do and I don't charge.

[triggercut]

Whoops, my bad.

Austin and his wolf-compatriot are correct.

BTW and peripherally--the "roles" do jack shit as far as I can see. Because the wolves are given either ROLE or "role" of their victims, and because they have "roles" themselves, there's really no way for us to use that mechanic to determine the veracity of someone claiming to be a special.

[Unagi]

I don't know, I didn't get a profession.

I should repeat this one.
BLUNDER by a wolf.
Wolves don't get professions. Villagers, including the three powered villagers get a ROLE/role. In other words, our SEER, CORONER, and PRIEST is also a "profession".
Oopsie, wolf boy.
Get on with the hanging.

Nah triggercut, this isn't what you are making it, but - don't let them turn this into "the reason Austin IS the Seer".
By 'profession' (since this were introduced a few games ago), I am pretty sure Austin meant the 'trade rolls' wolves and 'normals' got at the start of the game.
In any case, this is just a false argument, it doesn't have any bearing on the fact that Austin is faking Seer.

[triggercut]

I don't know, I didn't get a profession.

I should repeat this one.
BLUNDER by a wolf.
Wolves don't get professions. Villagers, including the three powered villagers get a ROLE/role. In other words, our SEER, CORONER, and PRIEST is also a "profession".
Oopsie, wolf boy.
Get on with the hanging.

Nah triggercut, this isn't what you are making it, but - don't let them turn this into "the reason Austin IS the Seer".
By 'profession' (since this were introduced a few games ago), I am pretty sure Austin meant the 'trade rolls' wolves and 'normals' got at the start of the game.
In any case, this is just a false argument, it doesn't have any bearing on the fact that Austin is faking Seer.

Yeah, you're correct.

Austin and Remus are both wolves, doesn't change that.

[Austin]

Unagi and Trig, do you guys need a few minutes?

[Unagi]

Whoops, my bad.

Austin and his wolf-compatriot are correct.

BTW and peripherally--the "roles" do jack shit as far as I can see. Because the wolves are given either ROLE or "role" of their victims, and because they have "roles" themselves, there's really no way for us to use that mechanic to determine the veracity of someone claiming to be a special.

'Your bad' again triggercut, the roles can be a critical part of this game.

[Austin]

Pr0ner is a wolf. Cut through the crap here.

[Remus West]

Whoops, my bad.

Austin and his wolf-compatriot are correct.

BTW and peripherally--the "roles" do jack shit as far as I can see. Because the wolves are given either ROLE or "role" of their victims, and because they have "roles" themselves, there's really no way for us to use that mechanic to determine the veracity of someone claiming to be a special.

The "roles" allow the Priest to prove himself. He gets the "roles" of the villagers who confess to him so if X comes out and says "I am the Priest and Remus is the lumberjack". I know I can trust him because I am the lumberjack.

It is interesting to note though that a wolf could pretend to be the Priest by giving the "roles" of his partners.

[Austin]

Whoops, my bad.

Austin and his wolf-compatriot are correct.

BTW and peripherally--the "roles" do jack shit as far as I can see. Because the wolves are given either ROLE or "role" of their victims, and because they have "roles" themselves, there's really no way for us to use that mechanic to determine the veracity of someone claiming to be a special.

'Your bad' again triggercut, the roles can be a critical part of this game.

Yeah we broke Chaos' first Crimson Moon game.

[Silky]

I wanted to point out that your time line is slightly incorrect Trig. I was the third vote on Lassr not the fourth. When I switched my vote from you to Lassr both of us were sitting at 2.

[Remus West]

You've reached too far and probably won't believe me today, what if I PM'd you tomorrow?

My honest answer is, I would PM chaosraven and tell him you've broken a game rule, as - You Are Not The Seer Austin.

The ONLY way you can make that claim is if you are a wolf that ate the Seer or are in fact the Seer yourself. If you have something to share please do so.

[Unagi]

It is interesting to note though that a wolf could pretend to be the Priest by giving the "roles" of his partners.

Proven that night by being eaten or not perhaps.

[triggercut]

BTW, on Wednesday night when I started to analyze the Day 1 happenings, I was really mostly trying to see whether Lassr was innocent or not. When I determined that he was, I figured, "Great, now we look at who voted for Austin, and in those 6 we'll see the names of 2 or 3 wolves".

That's when I ran across tru1cy's post, the one where he quite rightly and accurately shows that the lack of a Wolf Train on Austin means that Austin is a wolf. That post is what got tru1cy killed, I'm almost sure of it.

Reading that, I went back and looked things over. I became convinced that our wolves were:

1. Austin
2. Newcastle
3. Zurai.

I posted up and we started day 2.

Now I'm more convinced our wolves are:

1. Austin
2. Remus West
3. Newcastle or Zurai.

Unagi, pr0ner, Mr. Bubbles, myself, and Silky are all innocents.

I'm off to work.

[triggercut]

I wanted to point out that your time line is slightly incorrect Trig. I was the third vote on Lassr not the fourth. When I switched my vote from you to Lassr both of us were sitting at 2.

That's correct. You and Newcastle were roughly in the same window of time; Bubbles and Unagi also in the same time window.

[Unagi]

Reading that, I went back and looked things over. I became convinced that our wolves were:

1. Austin
2. Newcastle
3. Zurai.

I posted up and we started day 2.

Now I'm more convinced our wolves are:

1. Austin
2. Remus West
3. Newcastle or Zurai.

Unagi, pr0ner, Mr. Bubbles, myself, and Silky are all innocents.
I'm off to work.

I am totally in agreement on this.

[tru1cy]

[Austin]

And if you turn up wolfy?

Pr0ner, Trigg...? Zurai? I don't know I've been busy playing defense this game.

Edit: Point is you made up your mind a long time ago and everything since has been tainted. I could PM you tomorrow and you'd have a hard time releasing your vote on me. Your pride is tripping you up.

[Remus West]

[starts looking for the mental institute]It has to be here somewhere with all these brain damaged folks walking around. Sheesh[/stops looking]

[Remus West]

And if you turn up wolfy?

Pr0ner, Trigg...? Zurai? I don't know I've been busy playing defense this game.

Unagi is much more likely the Zurai.

[Austin]

And if you turn up wolfy?

Pr0ner, Trigg...? Zurai? I don't know I've been busy playing defense this game.

Unagi is much more likely the Zurai.

He keeps pointing to Zurai though. They need to have one safety if they are wolves. But like I said I've been on my heels since Day 1.

[Remus West]

And if you turn up wolfy?

Pr0ner, Trigg...? Zurai? I don't know I've been busy playing defense this game.

Edit: Point is you made up your mind a long time ago and everything since has been tainted. I could PM you tomorrow and you'd have a hard time releasing your vote on me. Your pride is tripping you up.

I doubt it is his pride at this point.

[triggercut]

You two can debate this in PM's you know.

[Remus West]

You two can debate this in PM's you know.

Please stop making a fool of yourself.

[triggercut]

You're welcome to PM me. Or to PM Silky. Or to PM Unagi. Or even pr0ner.

Thing is, whomever you choose will end up Wolf Chow. Then Austin stays alive and says "I picked <wolfchow> to PM, but he got eaten. Sorry, but all that nonsense the day before cost us my Seer scan overnight."

[Remus West]

You're welcome to PM me. Or to PM Silky. Or to PM Unagi. Or even pr0ner.

Thing is, whomever you choose will end up Wolf Chow. Then Austin stays alive and says "I picked <wolfchow> to PM, but he got eaten. Sorry, but all that nonsense the day before cost us my Seer scan overnight."

If his PM target gets eaten then we lynch him. Pure and simple. His life hangs in the balance of his success in connecting a PM tomorrow.

[Austin]

Seriously, killing me today when I can prove myself tomorrow through death or PM is horrible move. Lynch pr0ner today and tomorrow when I'm dead reevaluate everything.

The context of this game shifted poorly from the beginning and I could not shift it away without outing myself to the wolves. I've apparently done a crappy job of seering or Unagi pulled a brilliant wolf move (intentionally or not) early on and got lucky with me being the seer and not just an innocent.

What else can I say at this point that hasn't been said? Reread my posts in light of what I'm telling you now. Look at how often Trig's analysis is shifted slightly off the mark to put me in a worser light. (followed up with a 'my bad' and non-retractions)

I swear Chaos uses a very special 'random' number generator for his own amusement.

[Unagi]

OK folks, I think it is important and time to blow the whole lid off this sham.

Here is my favorite quote of the whole game:

Last night I scanned Remus and he's a non-wolf.
Night 1 I scanned Pr0ner and he is a wolf.

Now, Silky said that he didn't think there was a way for Austin's claim of being a Seer to be challenged or proven. Actually, I can do just that - but it's coming at the cost of my own life.

I'm the Priest. I've been trying to get this Austin lynch to happen naturally without coming out, but WE can not afford to keep missing on Austin and I know without a doubt that he is faking seer.

How? Well, as the Priest I have gotten a confession from pr0ner (Night 1).
You see, pr0ner has been putting his thumb on the scale at his BUTCHER shop... the few extra coppers have been weighing heavy on his heart, more than their weight in his purse.

Ahh, yes - but clearly I am in league with pr0ner from the beginning, right?

Could you imagine if my second confession was also from pr0ner. That would have sucked. I can see now that it would have also sucked if my second confession came from triggercut. That's is why I am happy to announce that my second confession was actually from Silky (Night 2).
Ahhh Silky. Silky has been using inferior materials on the roof repairs as the Village THATCHER and wonders how long he will get away with it.

Mr. Bubbles & Newcastle: You need to re-read this all over considering this. Austin and Remus are playing us all hard, and we must put a stop to it.

And, clearly - I am not sure on who the 3rd wolf is. Zurai is my natural pick, and I would certainly try him first. Newcastle's defense of Austin could very well be legit or it could be that he's a wolf (I actually think he's innocent). Mr. Bubbles - same thing really.

What I am sure of is:
I am the Priest
pr0ner is the Butcher
Silky is the Thatcher
Grund / tru1cy was the Seer (most likely tru1cy)
Austin is a wolf
Remus is a wolf

I have plenty of the truth to back me up, so I am not affraid to answer questions if I can from the remaining villagers (or wolves).

I will die tonight. They could leave me to live, but I doubt they will, each day the Priest actually gains more and more credibility. They could risk that I get a confession from Silky, pr0ner, or some dead villager - but I don't think they would risk that I get told Mr.Bubbles or Newcastle's role.
Also, now Silky or pr0ner's death (by wolf) would also be proof of my honesty.

I'm a little upset that I needed to reveal today. I was very much hoping to get a block of 4 instead of 3. But, I think that triggercut's posts have earned him an honorary spot in this circle of trust. Also, my concern about waiting was that I would maybe die tonight with all of this information (and leaving them to play Priest too!), or that pr0ner or Silky would die sometime in the next 24 hours, and my 'circle of trust' would never be as strong as it is right now... or as well used.

So there you have it.

[triggercut]

As I read it, our Priest can ONLY hear "confessions" from normal villagers, not wolves.

Silky's our verifier here. If Silky is indeed the Thatcher, that puts paid to Austin and Remus.

If--and I repeat, if--you can only hear confessions from innocent, unpowered villagers, and if Silky is our Thatcher, Remus and Austin need to get themselves fitted for that necktie.

Good outing of yourself if that's the case. That should put paid to the wolves.

[triggercut]

ADDING: the priest hears confessions from the 6 regular villagers, not any of the three powereds or the wolves.

[triggercut]

BTW, it'll be awhile until we hear from Austin and Remus. They're frantically communicating, trying to figure out a way for Remus to "come out" as the "real" priest. Or Coroner. Or something.

They're done. Nicely done, Unagi.