Story of the Chaos Order of the Dark Mages(WW)-Game Over

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 9:58 am

Chaosraven wrote:Evil is laughing at you

What a strange thing to say. You think there's a good enough chance of redrun being a wolf that you place a vote on him.

Yet, when you address him you say that Evil is laughing at him. Wouldn't that be that he is laughing at himself?

Or do you know that he is not in the group of laughing evils?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:02 am

redrun

There, just got further than my RMC effort.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:06 am

Qantaga wrote:
Chaosraven wrote:Evil is laughing at you

What a strange thing to say. You think there's a good enough chance of redrun being a wolf that you place a vote on him.

Yet, when you address him you say that Evil is laughing at him. Wouldn't that be that he is laughing at himself?

Or do you know that he is not in the group of laughing evils?

my comment is directed to the people voting for me. And no, I do not have any knowledge of which side any of them are on.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:08 am

I think that makes it 4 for Chaos and 4 for redrun. We get two bits of info from a redrun vote - only 1 from a Chaos vote.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:13 am

This is kinda crazy. My first impulse is that our Group Of Four--redrun, theohall, bb2112, and Qantaga--need some scanning help from our Seer to be totally proven to me, but on Day 1 they're as close as we can get...as long as everyone maintains due caution. Because of that I'm loathe to want to hang either of those four on Day 1.

That said...redrun's reaction to Remus has my radar spinning. First the defensive comments, and then what seems like an almost reflexive vote on Chaosraven. What's up with that?

I mean, let's take a look at this interesting sequence. We start with CR at 4 votes, and redrun at 1 vote. Chaos finally registers a vote (to placate theohall?) and puts it on redrun. Sort of interesting, but it only put redrun at 2, which implies to me that it wasn't done reflexively, necessarily. 2 1/2 hours later (a decent interval, actually), theohall pulls his vote from Chaosraven and puts it on redrun as well.

Now it's CR with 3 votes, redrun with 3 votes. While I don't agree with a lot that theohall says, I did note his pointing out of redrun's over-defensiveness and exchange with Remus. I noted it as well and thought it was curious...but not actionable for me, really, and especially not given that redrun is in our not-really-proven-but-still group.

But then redrun pulls his vote off newcastle (who seriously deserves more attention), and puts one on CR. If his engagement with Remus made him look a little suspicious, that move to me felt like seeing a guy walking away from a shooting scene twirling a gun and blowing the smoke off a barrel. But still...he's in that group of 4. Man.

So now we're back with CR at 4 votes, redrun at 3.

I remain unconvinced and unmoved by the revelation that RMC had a card to let him PM with someone, as to me--someone unjustly hanged fairly recently over PM's--I don't think there's a lot of value to be garnered in "You don't know what he says to me when we're alone" declarations of faith and fidelity.

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:15 am

stessier wrote:I think that makes it 4 for Chaos and 4 for redrun. We get two bits of info from a redrun vote - only 1 from a Chaos vote.

Bah, you voted and changed the count while I was typing.

It is indeed 4 and 4.

redrun's hanging would at least "prove" his scan (which was Qantaga, if I remember the link between scanner and targets correctly; theohall scanned bb2112 I think).

Hmm.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 10:57 am

Newcastle wrote:
Qantaga wrote:
Newcastle wrote:Would love to toss a vote on Qantaga...simply to spur his participation..but realize that's verboten since he's part of hte Card 4. He's had time to minister to his plantations in Puerto Rico, but not post here.

Newcastle, you are reminding me of Lassr(wolf)'s "Q sure is quiet" fabrications from last game. It makes me feel even better about my vote on you. There's a big difference between participation and white noise posting, and you know it.
thank you for sharing your thoughts. And I'm glad youre vote is comforting fo ryou. And yeah there is a difference between particpation and noise...and you've really not been participating. Same goes for RMC.

I don't have a whole lot to add.. I gave my reasons for a remus vote. I think they are still sound. I pointed out that I think it odd that El Guapo was willing to jump over to me, even with the PM'ing going on between us with my card. Which I think someone pointed out was dumb of me to waste on day one. <shrug> Not sure why it is a waste to use a card that has 5 uses..

I think that I have been quiet, but no more than I usually am on day one.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:09 am

RMC wrote:I don't have a whole lot to add.. I gave my reasons for a remus vote. I think they are still sound.

Here's the thing, though - Remus doesn't look like he is going down today. And you aren't doing much to push him. So why not rethink/move your vote, or else what's the point?

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:14 am

Qantaga wrote:As for redrun, he gets a pass from me today.

triggercut wrote:This is kinda crazy. My first impulse is that our Group Of Four--redrun, theohall, bb2112, and Qantaga--need some scanning help from our Seer to be totally proven to me, but on Day 1 they're as close as we can get...as long as everyone maintains due caution. Because of that I'm loathe to want to hang either of those four on Day 1.

Seriously?! It is day 1 and RR is the best choice? I see that Q and Trig are playing with some sense, but the rest of you guys? Are you trying to lay some kind of trap? If so, can we stop and analyze now? If not, this is the kind of thinking that got an uncontested seer lynched. And it is being led by the same guy. Does anyone know the definition of insanity?

I am not blind to the possibility of RR being a wolf, but come on, we at least have some info on him. We just need a day or 2 to prove him either through scan or a night death. Why are we proposing to do the wolves job for them?

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:25 am

bb2112 wrote:
Qantaga wrote:As for redrun, he gets a pass from me today.

triggercut wrote:This is kinda crazy. My first impulse is that our Group Of Four--redrun, theohall, bb2112, and Qantaga--need some scanning help from our Seer to be totally proven to me, but on Day 1 they're as close as we can get...as long as everyone maintains due caution. Because of that I'm loathe to want to hang either of those four on Day 1.
Seriously?! It is day 1 and RR is the best choice? I see that Q and Trig are playing with some sense, but the rest of you guys? Are you trying to lay some kind of trap? If so, can we stop and analyze now? If not, this is the kind of thinking that got an uncontested seer lynched. And it is being led by the same guy. Does anyone know the definition of insanity?

I am not blind to the possibility of RR being a wolf, but come on, we at least have some info on him. We just need a day or 2 to prove him either through scan or a night death. Why are we proposing to do the wolves job for them?

+1
dont understand the Redrun train. Remus shows up...waves his magic train wand...then poof....he's got 4 votes on someone....dude you can bottle that charisma and sell it.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:26 am

stessier wrote:
RMC wrote:I don't have a whole lot to add.. I gave my reasons for a remus vote. I think they are still sound.
Here's the thing, though - Remus doesn't look like he is going down today. And you aren't doing much to push him. So why not rethink/move your vote, or else what's the point?

Very valid point. I am not sure on a redrun vote, I think Chaos has sounded more evil overall. But I really need to do a read back through of this thread and then post my opinion. Which I will try to do today, or Wednesday.

Withdraw Remus

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 11:56 am

Qantaga wrote:Isn't theo following Chaos' vote on redrun interesting?

theo has been telling us all along how evil Chaos is. So, why in the world would theo suddenly be willing to follow anything Chaos is doing?

I was trying to move the game along and redrun's posts with one vote on him made little sense. This is what I find interesting now. stessier followed me on two of my last three votes, but won't vote for Chaosraven. Why?

Putting Chaosraven back at N-2 right now....

Chaosraven

stessier looks really guilty too.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:06 pm

theohall wrote:stessier followed me on two of my last three votes,

You flatter yourself in assigning any meaning to that beyond what I've stated.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:14 pm

stessier wrote:
theohall wrote:stessier followed me on two of my last three votes,
You flatter yourself in assigning any meaning to that beyond what I've stated.

You still look guilty following someone else's vote twice and not following the vote for one specific person, regardless of your words. Is not the quote "Actions speak louder than words?"

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:27 pm

theohall wrote:
Qantaga wrote:Isn't theo following Chaos' vote on redrun interesting?

theo has been telling us all along how evil Chaos is. So, why in the world would theo suddenly be willing to follow anything Chaos is doing?
I was trying to move the game along and redrun's posts with one vote on him made little sense. This is what I find interesting now. stessier followed me on two of my last three votes, but won't vote for Chaosraven. Why?

Putting Chaosraven back at N-2 right now....

Chaosraven

stessier looks really guilty too.

I've been saying that for a while. He seems off this game. Not his usual playing style.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 12:54 pm

i could drop a vote on stessier if a train forms on him....in case we need another consensus lynch....i wont vote for theo, redrun, Q nor BB. There are a few others am hesitant to vote for, and a few that are more of a higher priority to test in my eyes.....stessier being amongst them.

The Redrun train is ludicrious....seriously....we're going to bark up that tree?

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:04 pm

Newcastle ---------- kraegor ----- Qantaga ----- redrun ----- Chaosraven ----- Newcastle ----- stessier ----- Chaosraven
BB2112 ---------- Remus West ----- Remus West. ----- Newcastle ----- ----- ----- -----
theohall ---------- stessier ----- Chasoraven ----- RMC ----- Chaosraven ----- redrun ----- Chaosraven -----
kraegor ---------- Remus West ----- Chasoraven ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
Remus West ---------- bb2112 ----- redrun ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
El Guapo ---------- Remus West ----- kraegor ----- RMC ----- ----- ----- -----
stessier ---------- Mr. Bubbles ----- RMC ----- redrun ----- ----- ----- -----
triggercut ---------- El Guapo ----- Remus West ----- RMC ----- ----- ----- -----
Chaosraven ---------- bb2112 ----- redrun ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
Qantaga ---------- theohall ----- stessier ----- Newcastle ----- ----- ----- -----
RMC ---------- Remus West ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
redrun ---------- Qantaga ----- Chasoraven ----- Newcastle ----- Chaosraven ----- ----- -----
Mr. Bubbles ---------- Chaosraven ----- ----- ----- ----- ----- -----
.
.
Chaosraven -5 ---------- Newcastle, kraegor, Mr. Bubbles, redrun, theohall
redrun -3 --------- Remus West, Chaosraven, stessier
RMC -2 ---------- El Guapo, triggercut
Newcastle -2 ---------- Qantaga, bb2112
--------
----------

Majority = 7

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:08 pm

Dammit Newcastle! Stop making sense. Now you are causing me to rethink my whole vote.

Withdraw Newcastle

IMO - High levels of suspicion.

Remus West
Kraegor
Mr. Bubbles
Stessier

Mr. Bubbles

Qantaga · Post by **Qantaga** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:27 pm

bb2112 wrote:Dammit Newcastle! Stop making sense. Now you are causing me to rethink my whole vote.

You don't think wolves are capable of making sense?

Now that I'm all alone on the Newcastle vote, I'll have to do some rethinking of my own.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:37 pm

Heh... "usual" playstyle. HEE HEE HEE! Oh msieu bubliuex you crack me up.

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:40 pm

Qantaga wrote:
bb2112 wrote:Dammit Newcastle! Stop making sense. Now you are causing me to rethink my whole vote.

You don't think wolves are capable of making sense?

Now that I'm all alone on the Newcastle vote, I'll have to do some rethinking of my own.

not sure what in my play's giving you the willies Q....i'd like to think i've done what i can to help the village this day....by instigating conversations and pressing forward some points....and yes trying to drag in some of the quiets into the discussion as well as point out some incongruities.....but...for whatever reason you see something in my play. i seriously dont know what it is or isnt(ie you have spartacus)....but as being part of the card 4, am kind of subservient to you know....at least for today...would like to know whats set you off, and perhaps i can address it to mollify your concerns. I still havent given up the notion that either you or BB played the spartacus card.....but i am content with putting that line of inquiry on pause for today and see what develops....

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:41 pm

Qantaga wrote:
bb2112 wrote:Dammit Newcastle! Stop making sense. Now you are causing me to rethink my whole vote.

You don't think wolves are capable of making sense?

Now that I'm all alone on the Newcastle vote, I'll have to do some rethinking of my own.

They absolutely can. Just like sometimes Villagers don't make any sense. The problem is, I guess I would rather vote for someone that isn't making sense as opposed to someone that actually might be helping.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:44 pm

Lynching those who used cards to reveal roles gives potential info. Sadly the best info it could give is if they are NOT evil, as it means the info can be trusted (other than the fakey card). What was the new ruling on revealing your card?

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:45 pm

let's see if this dog will hunt:

stessier

note: am perfectly willing to hop back on the Raven-train-in pitstop-in-madness-but-to-provide-clarity-and-stop stealing-linga-newcastle-choo-choo-train

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:52 pm

Chaosraven wrote:Lynching those who used cards to reveal roles gives potential info. Sadly the best info it could give is if they are NOT evil, as it means the info can be trusted (other than the fakey card). What was the new ruling on revealing your card?

The current ruling is that revealing your card is ok now, but will NOT be legal as of day 2 if it has not yet been used (once you play it, my understanding is that you can say that you did).

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 1:56 pm

My vote's currently on RMC, but there wasn't much substance to that, and it's not going anywhere regardless. The trick is I don't really like Chaosraven or redrun as votes - Chaosraven's posts generally make sense (even if you think he exaggerated slightly on the Newcastle / Remus thing), and he's been a huge asset as a good villager the past game or two. Redrun I could theoretically do...but I dunno, the scanning thing doesn't make me happy in terms of a day 1 lynch.

I think after those two Mr. Bubbles and Newcastle are at 1 vote apiece. Newcastle's at least generating smoke, so...

withdraw RMC
Mr Bubbles

.

But honestly I'm mostly flying blind here on day 1.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:02 pm

Mr Bubbles

I will admit I have not finished my reread, but I think that currently Mr. Bubbles has been the most quiet. And like I said already, so have I. However, I know I am not a wolf, so I will throw my vote behind the silent one I know nothing about. I know pot meet kettle.

I can be convinced to switch my vote, as this is really just a fishing expedition.

theohall · Post by **theohall** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:21 pm

I don't think a Mr Bubbles vote is going to reveal anything, but that is because I believe Chaosraven and stessier are evil.

Since no one seems to want to help finish the CR train - including Remus West and bb2112 which is odd - I will move to:

stessier

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:25 pm

Ya know, since none of our resident list makers have been kind of enoguh to do it...i think i'll have to do a post count by the end of the day.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:28 pm

Newcastle wrote: I still havent given up the notion that either you or BB played the spartacus card.....but i am content with putting that line of inquiry on pause for today and see what develops....

Well I know I haven't played the Spartacus card, since I am still sitting on the "Told ya so" card. Nobody is jumping up to contest me either. And I can still play it, be proven today, and killed by morning.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:41 pm

Ah - full circle.

Mr Bubbles

Feels good to be home.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:43 pm

bb2112 wrote:
Newcastle wrote: I still havent given up the notion that either you or BB played the spartacus card.....but i am content with putting that line of inquiry on pause for today and see what develops....
Well I know I haven't played the Spartacus card, since I am still sitting on the "Told ya so" card. Nobody is jumping up to contest me either. And I can still play it, be proven today, and killed by morning.

Using that card today would not be in the best interest of the Village, would it?

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:46 pm

Stessier

His play has bothered me this whole game, but now I am convinced he is evil.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:51 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote: Stessier

His play has bothered me this whole game, but now I am convinced he is evil.

Why? The vote for you or the note on BB2112's card?

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:54 pm

stessier wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote: Stessier

His play has bothered me this whole game, but now I am convinced he is evil.
Why? The vote for you or the note on BB2112's card?

Hardly.. It's the aggressiveness you've displayed from the beginning. It's very unlike your style of play from the past.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:56 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote:It's the aggressiveness you've displayed from the beginning.

I'm being punk'd, right?

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 2:59 pm

stessier wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote:It's the aggressiveness you've displayed from the beginning.

I'm being punk'd, right?

triggercut · Post by **triggercut** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:09 pm

Mr Bubbles wrote: Stessier

His play has bothered me this whole game, but now I am convinced he is evil.

It's always suspicious as heck to me when I see a player pull the "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you" vote.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 3:11 pm

triggercut wrote:
Mr Bubbles wrote: Stessier

His play has bothered me this whole game, but now I am convinced he is evil.
It's always suspicious as heck to me when I see a player pull the "I don't have to outrun the bear, I just have to outrun you" vote.

I've commented long before the vote on his behavior, so it's not like I'm just making this up now. Besides.. do you think the CR train is going to go anywhere?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Tue Aug 07, 2012 4:13 pm

bb2112 wrote:I am not blind to the possibility of RR being a wolf, but come on, we at least have some info on him. We just need a day or 2 to prove him either through scan or a night death. Why are we proposing to do the wolves job for them?

How about this. I scanned Chaosraven and he is not a wolf.

Now, obviously that is a lie on my part but you really have nothing to differentiate that statement from the one redrun made. Suppose Chaosraven IS a wolf. Do you think he is going to call me out on it? Nope. Suppose Chaosraven is a villager. Do you think he is going to know if I actually used a card or not? Nope.

Saying we have "information" from redrun is stupid. Your statement comparing it to lynching an uncontested Seer is also stupid. Even if he is telling the truth he doesn't get to use the same card every day. It is a one shot deal. Lynching the Seer is silly because of the potential for future return. This is not even close to the same thing.