The Lab-Leak Theory: Inside the Fight to Uncover COVID-19’s Origins

[Holman]

The Daily Caller, bastion of unbiased and trustworthy reporting.

Lighten up, Francis; I merely linked the first source that showed up when searching for the story. Here's the same story as reported by newsweek.com and science.org if it makes any difference to you. But they each appear to report much the same thing. And realistically, there's nothing I can do to alter the fact that we live in a world of increasingly siloed and segrated news coverage.

Surely you know that Newsweek is no longer the trusted source that it used to be.

As I said, I am powerless to change the reality of our world's increasingly isolated and divided news reporting, and I certainly said nothing to imply that Newsweek was necessarily a "bastion of unbiased and trustworthy reporting," as Zaxxon would put it.

And your linked science.org article is merely a short presentation of the existence of the claim, not a defense of its merits.

Which was precisely the point I was making, i.e. simply that allegations have surfaced that the CIA's personnel assigned to pandemic investigation may've been bribed to alter their position about where the virus originated. I vaguely recalled the story, so I linked and quoted the first source that showed up when searching for it because there's only so much time I can afford to allocate to this (and the two others after Zaxxon bemoaned my quotation of the Daily Caller story).

So we agree that your cited sources are bullshit?

[Anonymous Bosch]

I think that Occums razor applies in this case.

SARS type viruses including Covid of varying degrees of lethality have come out of China multiple times.

Given this why wouldn’t the local lab be studying viruses like this. Logically you would.

Occam's razor applies to the natural-origin theory too though, which as Geraghty wryly observed back in 2022, requires belief in a series of coincidences that seem so unlikely it becomes effectively impossible:

Wuhan is a major hub for transport of goods and domestic and international travel.

Just like hiv didn’t arise where it was first detected likely this virus arose somewhere in rural China and a sick person came into the city and started spreading it.

This series of coincidences that is so implausible as to be impossible as you put it is how every viral and bacterial disease through history has risen, evolved and spread.

Based on this this is logically the most likely possibility. Given chinas lack of cooperation it’s unlikely the true source will be found.

The lab leak is a possibility - but far more likely is a natural development and spread just like every other diseases that afflicts us today.

Most large Chinese cities have laboratories that study coronaviruses, and virus outbreaks typically begin in rural areas, but are first noticed in large cities. If a coronavirus outbreak occurs in China, there is a high likelihood it will occur near a large city, and therefore near a laboratory studying coronaviruses.

Yet the proximity of the Wuhan Institute of Virology, which specializes in coronavirus research, to the outbreak's epicenter still raises valid questions about a possible lab leak. The SARS-CoV-2 virus showed a remarkable ability to infect humans from the outset, suggesting a level of preadaptation atypical for a newly emerged zoonotic virus, which usually requires time to mutate and adapt. Which potentially also points to a laboratory origin, where manipulation and study of viruses are routine. And while high-containment bio labs exist near urban centers worldwide, outbreaks tied directly to such facilities are not common, but the laboratories in Wuhan -- including the WIV -- also have a documented history of conducting risky coronavirus research and experiments.

[Anonymous Bosch]

The Daily Caller, bastion of unbiased and trustworthy reporting.

Lighten up, Francis; I merely linked the first source that showed up when searching for the story. Here's the same story as reported by newsweek.com and science.org if it makes any difference to you. But they each appear to report much the same thing. And realistically, there's nothing I can do to alter the fact that we live in a world of increasingly siloed and segrated news coverage.

Surely you know that Newsweek is no longer the trusted source that it used to be.

As I said, I am powerless to change the reality of our world's increasingly isolated and divided news reporting, and I certainly said nothing to imply that Newsweek was necessarily a "bastion of unbiased and trustworthy reporting," as Zaxxon would put it.

And your linked science.org article is merely a short presentation of the existence of the claim, not a defense of its merits.

Which was precisely the point I was making, i.e. simply that allegations have surfaced that the CIA's personnel assigned to pandemic investigation may've been bribed to alter their position about where the virus originated. I vaguely recalled the story, so I linked and quoted the first source that showed up when searching for it because there's only so much time I can afford to allocate to this (and the two others after Zaxxon bemoaned my quotation of the Daily Caller story).

So we agree that your cited sources are bullshit?

No, we do not; Zaxxon did not link to anything specifically contradicting what I actually originally linked and quoted, i.e. that allegations had surfaced that the CIA's personnel assigned to pandemic investigation may've been bribed to alter their position about where the virus originated.

[waitingtoconnect]

It’s possible but it’s less likely than natural causes.

Most scientists agree, based on the virus’s genetics, that it probably hopped from animals to humans. On April 30 2020 the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence declared, on behalf of the 17 different organizations that make up the U.S. intelligence community, that “the Covid-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified.” The organizations decided to continue investigating two alternatives: the more likely explanation that the virus jumped from an animal to a human, and the more remote possibility that it was a natural virus released in a lab accident, which still hasn’t been ruled out.

[Anonymous Bosch]

It’s possible but it’s less likely than natural causes.

Most scientists agree, based on the virus’s genetics, that it probably hopped from animals to humans. On April 30 2020 the U.S. Office of the Director of National Intelligence declared, on behalf of the 17 different organizations that make up the U.S. intelligence community, that “the Covid-19 virus was not manmade or genetically modified.” The organizations decided to continue investigating two alternatives: the more likely explanation that the virus jumped from an animal to a human, and the more remote possibility that it was a natural virus released in a lab accident, which still hasn’t been ruled out.

I appreciate your perspective, and it's true that most scientists initially did, and many continue to, support the idea that SARS-CoV-2 jumped from animals to humans. However, the hypothesis of a lab leak has not been definitively ruled out and still warrants careful consideration. Especially when you see a new disclosure reveal how leading U.S. virus experts lobbied to conduct dangerous gain-of-function research at the substandard Wuhan Institute of Virology laboratory. It's also worth noting that scientific consensus can evolve as further investigation and evidence emerges.

[Zarathud]

If there was an actual bribe, rather than an alleged bribe, I would have expected the FBI to have proven that crime rather than the origins of the Coronavirus. It’s a pretty far-fetched allegation, when the whistleblower has an equal financial incentive. There’s a lot of Republican dark money financing extremist “proof.” Look at PillowGuy and Rudy.

[Anonymous Bosch]

If there was an actual bribe, rather than an alleged bribe, I would have expected the FBI to have proven that crime rather than the origins of the Coronavirus. It’s a pretty far-fetched allegation, when the whistleblower has an equal financial incentive. There’s a lot of Republican dark money financing extremist “proof.” Look at PillowGuy and Rudy.

While scepticism towards the whistleblower's testimony regarding alleged incentives to alter positions on the COVID-19 lab leak theory is understandable, it's crucial not to dismiss such serious claims without proper investigation. The FBI's involvement would depend on jurisdiction and evidence, and the risks whistleblowers face often outweigh potential financial incentives, suggesting their claims are not made lightly. Moreover, political funding on any side should not detract from the integrity of the inquiry. Discrediting allegations without due scrutiny undermines accountability and democratic oversight, so it's essential to conduct a transparent and evidence-based investigation to uphold the credibility of our institutions. Meanwhile, the Heritage Foundation apparently filed a FOIA request "to compel production of CIA records relating to allegations that members of the CIA's COVID Discovery Team, a group of employees tasked with analyzing the origins of the COVID-19 pandemic, received monetary incentives to change their position on the origins of the virus," though unsurprisingly, the CIA is less than enthused about providing further clarity and transparency.

[Victoria Raverna]

CIA, we accuse you of paying your staffs to change their position on the origin of the virus. Please provide us with evidence that prove that.

If you don't provide us with the evidence, that prove you're covering up.

[Zarathud]

And do t investigate our whistleblower!

[waitingtoconnect]

You should not put don’t to evil what incompetence will explain.

[Anonymous Bosch]

CIA, we accuse you of paying your staffs to change their position on the origin of the virus. Please provide us with evidence that prove that.

If you don't provide us with the evidence, that prove you're covering up.

Incorrect, the evidence was already presented by way of a senior-level CIA officer's whistleblower testimony, alleging that the CIA bribed six analysts involved in their pandemic investigation to alter their stance on COVID-19's origin. Working for a secretive alphabet agency, it's safe to say that officer put their career at risk by providing such evidence on the record. The relevant financial documents in the FOIA request will either reveal the whistleblower as the type of charlatan Zarathud suspects or corroborate the veracity of their allegations. Greater transparency promotes accountability and provides information for citizens about what their government is doing, which ought to make it worthwhile regardless of where you may stand on this issue.

[Smoove_B]

Just in time for Spooky Season - "Genetic ghosts" suggest market origins:

A team of scientists say it is “beyond reasonable doubt” the Covid pandemic started with infected animals sold at a market, rather than a laboratory leak.

They were analysing hundreds of samples collected from Wuhan, China, in January 2020.

The results identify a shortlist of animals – including racoon dogs, civets and bamboo rats – as potential sources of the pandemic.

Despite even highlighting one market stall as a hotspot of both animals and coronavirus, the study cannot provide definitive proof.

The samples were collected by Chinese officials in the early stages of Covid and are one of the most scientifically valuable sources of information on the origins of the pandemic.

Details:

Their analysis was published last year and the raw data made available to other scientists. Now a team in the US and France says they have performed even more advanced genetic analyses to peer deeper into Covid’s early days.

It involved analysing millions of short fragments of genetic code – both DNA and RNA – to establish what animals and viruses were in the market in January 2020.

"We are seeing the DNA and RNA ghosts of these animals in the environmental samples, and some are in stalls where [the Covid virus] was found too," says Prof Florence Débarre, of the French National Centre for Scientific Research.

The results, published in the journal Cell, highlight a series of findings that come together to make their case.

It shows Covid virus and susceptible animals were detected in the same location, with some individual swabs collecting both animal and coronavirus genetic code. This is not evenly distributed across the market and points to very specific hotspots.

"We find a very consistent story in terms of this pointing - even at the level of a single stall - to the market as being the very likely origin of this particular pandemic," says Prof Kristian Andersen, from the Scripps Institute in the US.

Science. Every time.

[TheMix]

Sorry. Gotta disagree. My sister's gut feeling says it was manufactured in a lab in China as an attack on the US. Gotta trust the gut, right?

[Smoove_B]

I'm guessing those sentiments will be starting up again over the next few weeks, yes.

[Max Peck]

The CBC just ran an article on this, apparently based on the same report that the BBC reported on back in September, so I don't know if there's anything new here aside from the emphasis on Canadian contributions and reactions. It is perhaps timely to revisit it given the oncoming storm of disinformation we can expect from the incoming Trump administration.

Where did COVID-19 originate? Saskatoon lab helps with genetic analysis that points to animal market

Study concludes that there's almost no chance the virus originated from a lab leak

A team of scientists, including one in Saskatoon, say they have strong evidence that the COVID-19 virus jumped from infected animals to humans, rather than originating from a laboratory leak.

The analysis of hundreds of genetic samples provides strong but circumstantial evidence that the pandemic's origin is connected to the wildlife trade in the Huanan Seafood Wholesale Market, said Angie Rasmussen, a study co-author and virologist at the University of Saskatchewan's Vaccine and Infection Disease Organization.

The study, published this fall in the journal Cell, shows the virus emerged at the market in Wuhan, China, at the same time as the pandemic began in the human population, suggesting it was the place of origin and linked to the live animals that were being sold there.

"It's very difficult to explain any other way, besides that virus was brought there with those live animals and it spilled over, twice actually, into the human population at the market," she said.

There had been two main theories about the origin of the COVID-19 pandemic, declared by the World Health Organization in March 2020. One was that the virus jumped from an infected animal to a human, most likely at the market; the second was that the virus was leaked from the Wuhan Institute of Virology.

[pr0ner]

Apparently RFK Jr was spouting "plandemic" nonsense back in the summer of 2020.

[Max Peck]

If he gets his way, there'll be plenty of Made in Magamerica™ plandemics soon enough.