Octopus Overlords

I remember trying Anarchy Online several times but never could really get into it. The game seemed to have a steep learning curve and I remember feeling really confused about what I was supposed to be doing or where I should be going. I remember the hub cities being really confusing to navigate because they all felt... samey? And I couldn't find any NPCs, only mission terminals that would somehow send me halfway across the map in futility.

Paingod wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:41 am

raydude wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 10:14 amFinal note: the player base is actually nice. I hardly see spammers advertising stuff for sale, I haven't gotten hit on yet (playing a female character, which guaranteed getting creepy messages at least once in previous MMOs), and no one spends a lot of time chatting useless stuff in the public chat.

You find that a lot in more "mature" game where all the "OOooooOOH NEW SHINY" players have moved on and everyone's had a couple years to settle down into their roles. Sadly, this also tends to coincide with a game's demise.

I remember having a lot of fun with this title when it hit "Free to Play" and spent a good bit of time with it. I liked the Lovecraftian themes everywhere and the stories were pretty good and/or horrific. I did feel a little overwhelmed by everything, especially the "transwarp" world for some reason. Some of it did feel like a grind but that seems to be inevitable with MMO's where one of the design goals is to create a game play loop that keeps you "in" as long as possible.

It did feel grindy for me for about a week, then I realized "what the hell am I doing trying to clear the advanced daily goals - 5 main missions, 5 side missions)?" Especially since I wasn't buying any clothing and I already had the gear I wanted. The cost for upgrading items still isn't expensive, and I'm at level 40, so I don't really need the currency. I've been getting enough just doing the normal missions and basic daily goals.

Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:47 am I must have tried this over a dozen times since release and never get into it. I never get past or far past the starting stuff. It looks old, the controls dont translate to good movement AT ALL and thats a big problem to me, the camera is bad. Ive tried. I always wanted a good sci-fi / future based MMO. Anarchy Online had too much of its own troubles for me to really love but had some fun with it. This I just keep bouncing off of it...and I want to like it..even a little but never do.

I don't know how recent it is, but the camera and movement controls were changed from the original TSW. Now it's reticle targetting and movement. Think 3rd person view, WSAD with mouselook to control your camera and your "forward" direction. It's actually not bad.

Stop giving me itches to scratch ! Now Im reinstalling through Steam to see if I can enjoy it with a controller.

Any thoughts on how well Kingdom Come: Deliverance has held up to the test of (the short amount of) time since release?

I've watched a few "Let's Play" and some combat, but it looked pretty stiff. I get that it's a "Medieval Simulator" more than a combat game, but it's something that stands out in game scenes.

I ask because GOG sent me a "discount" to buy the complete edition for $18. Trying to figure out if I really want it or if I get enough of that from Mount & Blade.

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:19 pm Any thoughts on how well Kingdom Come: Deliverance has held up to the test of (the short amount of) time since release?

I've watched a few "Let's Play" and some combat, but it looked pretty stiff. I get that it's a "Medieval Simulator" more than a combat game, but it's something that stands out in game scenes.

I ask because GOG sent me a "discount" to buy the complete edition for $18. Trying to figure out if I really want it or if I get enough of that from Mount & Blade.

That's a tough call. I played it early last year. I thought it was fine. It has much more of a story than M&B. And a more fleshed out world (though WAAAAAAAAAAAYYYY smaller). You also won't do any/much mounted combat. Frankly, it's a completely different game. I mean that it feels completely different; obviously it's a different game. But I don't think that it would, as the saying goes, 'scratch the same itch' as M&B.

I'm also pretty sure that I've seen it for less than that. But only a few $$. So I don't know if that would be a factor.

I did find the fighting interesting. As well as the skill progression. Initially I could barely hold my own against a single target. By the end I could fairly easily handle multiple. But I never got a handle on the combos. Mostly I just "cheesed" and used block/reposte and wait for them to run out of stamina.

Close as you can come to living in the medieval ages. I played to the next big town and areas around it and took a break because of stuff. Never got back to it but plan a full restart sometime.

It is to sword & sorcery RPGs what Operation Flashpoint was to action shooters. It's very much a simulator, and it is a little stiff in places to account for that. If you can appreciate the historical setting and go into it look for that rather than for an action RPG, then it is a five-star game. If you're looking for the smoothness of an Elderscrolls or Witcher, though, you're going to be disappointed.

That's where I'm getting hung up. I'm worried that those kinds of games have spoiled me and I'm not entirely sure I have an appetite for a pure medieval sim. I was hoping someone would sway me one way or another, but even after watching videos and reading comments, I still can't tell.

I suppose that might, in itself, tell me enough.

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:19 pm Any thoughts on how well Kingdom Come: Deliverance has held up to the test of (the short amount of) time since release?

I've watched a few "Let's Play" and some combat, but it looked pretty stiff. I get that it's a "Medieval Simulator" more than a combat game, but it's something that stands out in game scenes.

I ask because GOG sent me a "discount" to buy the complete edition for $18. Trying to figure out if I really want it or if I get enough of that from Mount & Blade.

I enjoyed playing it back when it was released, so I'd give it a thumbs up at that price. If nothing else, GOG allows you to get a refund for 30 days after you purchase it, regardless of the amount of time you actually spend playing IIRC, so you'd have plenty of time to try it out and see if you like it.

Daehawk wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:39 pm Close as you can come to living in the medieval ages. I played to the next big town and areas around it and took a break because of stuff. Never got back to it but plan a full restart sometime.

This.

I thoroughly enjoyed my time with it! I love Skyrim, but it's not that "smooth". The combat is tough at first. I never felt like I got the hang of it. I never knew if I "missed" because of the rng or if I was still a "newbie" with a sword. I wasn't sure where the sim ended and my lack of understanding caused me to miss. Other than that, I loved the game and also intend to go back to it at some point.

Rumpy wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:29 pm I remember trying Anarchy Online several times but never could really get into it. The game seemed to have a steep learning curve and I remember feeling really confused about what I was supposed to be doing or where I should be going. I remember the hub cities being really confusing to navigate because they all felt... samey? And I couldn't find any NPCs, only mission terminals that would somehow send me halfway across the map in futility.

What's funny is that I don't remember anything about this game at all. I think I played Anarchy Online. In fact, I'm sure I did, but I cannot remember a thing about it. Even looking at Youtube videos of the gameplay doesn't spark any memories.

That's probably because it was incredibly generic (at least to me) and was so empty. I mean, it was rare to find anyone whenever I tried it.

For someone not interested in the Mass Effect remaster stuff what is the best way to get all 3 games with ALL DLC in one shot? The ME Trilogy release doesn't even have all the DLC.

Anyone know where to get a copy of Fallout 4 GotY Edition for about $8?

The current lowest price is $25.99. The lowest hit has ever been is around 12 bucks.

Assuming you already have the base games, you can purchase the DLC bundles for Mass Effect 2/3 on Origin, but they aren't cheap and I have no idea whether they ever go on sale. The DLC for Mass Effect (Bring Down the Sky and Pinnacle Station) can be downloaded for free from EA, along with some FreeLC for Mass Effect 2.

Thats one of my problems. I have some of the DLCs but not all. I would get one when money permitted and replay the series...then again next time. Ive replayed it 3 or 4 times I guess but its new each time as I get more DLC. The next time I play I hope to have it all. But I wont pay a big price for it all. Ill have to catch a sale.

I don't know if it's still the case, but the Mass Effect 2/3 DLC famously never went on sale when it was available piecemeal and paid for with Bioware points. My expectation is that the economical route will be to wait for MELE to go on sale at some point. While it doesn't include the Pinnacle Station DLC, I wouldn't be surprised to see modders figure out how to add the existing Pinnacle Station DLC to MELE at some point.

Max Peck wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:22 pm

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 1:19 pm Any thoughts on how well Kingdom Come: Deliverance has held up to the test of (the short amount of) time since release?

I've watched a few "Let's Play" and some combat, but it looked pretty stiff. I get that it's a "Medieval Simulator" more than a combat game, but it's something that stands out in game scenes.

I ask because GOG sent me a "discount" to buy the complete edition for $18. Trying to figure out if I really want it or if I get enough of that from Mount & Blade.

I enjoyed playing it back when it was released, so I'd give it a thumbs up at that price. If nothing else, GOG allows you to get a refund for 30 days after you purchase it, regardless of the amount of time you actually spend playing IIRC, so you'd have plenty of time to try it out and see if you like it.

GOG is currently giving away the 'making of' documentary: https://www.gog.com/movie/deliverance_t ... ngdom_come

It's $1.99, but they're mailing out codes.

Got my freebie today.

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:18 pm That's where I'm getting hung up. I'm worried that those kinds of games have spoiled me and I'm not entirely sure I have an appetite for a pure medieval sim. I was hoping someone would sway me one way or another, but even after watching videos and reading comments, I still can't tell.

I suppose that might, in itself, tell me enough.

I think I have a key from one of my bundles. No DLC of course. Let me know if you want it.

From Rock, Paper, Shotgun: Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe, one of the wonders of PC gaming, is coming to Steam

Open Transport Tycoon Deluxe is one of the seven wonders of PC gaming. It's a standalone remake and expansion of Chris Sawyer's management game Transport Tycoon Deluxe, it's free and open source, and after over 15 years, it's still regularly maintained. Now it should hopefully find a new audience, as it's coming to Steam for the first time on April 1st.

Even with all my fussing about outdated graphics sometimes I do so miss games with 256 color SVGA graphics. Those were the 4K of the day when I started gaming. I still love them especially if its an overhead view game. Makes me want to play Star Trek 25th Anniversary and Judgement Rites again.

I spent the weekend playing Grim Dawn, finally trying my first Hardcore build. I opted for a Necromancer/Occultist build, one I'm most familiar with and one I know can be absurdly powerful without requiring me to be up front in the thick of it. I've got a level 55+ Cabalist in normal mode, and it can clear like 75 levels of the Cauldron's arena in one go pretty easily. It doesn't even take a collection of just the right items to be potent. I'm doing a Hardcore/Veteran game just for the extra experience and loot. I know the risks in Veteran, as well, and may turn it off if things get too hairy later on. So far no boss, even the ones inside the "Challenge" zones have been issues, though triple-Champions can be cause to run a bit and kite.

Build goal 1: Get Skeletons to level 16. Don't even bother increasing rank in Necromacer. 3 level 16 Skeletons is powerful by itself and carries you quite some way all by itself.
Build goal 2: Get every pet. Even a Level 1 pet helps more than no pet. Add more ranks to Skeletons to increase the spawn count to up to 6 or 7.
Build goal 3: Get a couple good Curses ranked up a ways. I won't be fighting directly, but can still help while I run.
Build goal 4: Profit? The Raven needs better healing, the pets could use more abilities - but generally making everything as durable as possible is next. They should survive as long as possible. Curses should be as potent as I can get them, but are secondary to pet (and thus my) survival.

I discovered that I should not play while drowsy. I didn't think much of it, but I woke with a start to find my level 20 character being attacked by a pair of champion enemies and all of my pets were gone. I ran like a crazy person, spamming every pet until I was safely clear of the mess I made. Once I was out and ported to the Prison I closed out of the game and went to bed.

What I don't like is that of the handful of Epic item's I've found (maybe 10), I'm gotten duplicates of three. I know there's more item variety than that, and given the challenge in Hardcore, it seems like a kick to the shins to be "gifted" piles of redundancy for Epics.

Hrothgar wrote: Sat Feb 06, 2021 8:26 pm

Paingod wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 2:18 pm That's where I'm getting hung up. I'm worried that those kinds of games have spoiled me and I'm not entirely sure I have an appetite for a pure medieval sim. I was hoping someone would sway me one way or another, but even after watching videos and reading comments, I still can't tell.

I suppose that might, in itself, tell me enough.

I think I have a key from one of my bundles. No DLC of course. Let me know if you want it.

I appreciate the offer, but would rather it went to someone in greater need

Daehawk wrote: Sun Feb 07, 2021 10:39 am Even with all my fussing about outdated graphics sometimes I do so miss games with 256 color SVGA graphics. Those were the 4K of the day when I started gaming. I still love them especially if its an overhead view game. Makes me want to play Star Trek 25th Anniversary and Judgement Rites again.

It's fun until you try and play them in their 600x400 windows on your 1920x1080 widescreen monitor. Seems to drain out all the magic.

Watching Mandalorian sent me back to SWTOR again. Sure enough, I'm 30 hours in and burned out on it. Again. At least I got a character to level 50 this time, as opposed to the 5 other characters I have who are sitting in the early 40's. I do think that this time I finally figured out what bugs me about it though.

The class stories are great and it totally nails the Star Wars atmosphere, but the moment to moment gameplay is remarkably dull. I'm doing the exact same thing with the same abilities (that might have a different name) at level 50 that I did 20 hours ago at level 10. Apply dots, spam AOE's until there's one target left, then spam single target attacks. Rise and repeat approximately 5,000 times.

Regardless of which class you choose, you can play through close to 95% of the base game by literally hitting 4-5 buttons. In every other MMO I've played, there has been at least some semblance of progression or change in how play as your character advances and gains more skills. With SWTOR, there's nothing. I've got a dozen skills on my action bars, but I never have to use any of them.

I'm sure end-game content requires a much higher degree of skill, but I just can't generate the interest anymore to wade through vast oceans of trash mobs to get to the interesting story bits that get me there.

Someone please remind me of this next time I say I'm going back to SWTOR again.

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:58 pm the moment to moment gameplay is remarkably dull. I'm doing the exact same thing with the same abilities (that might have a different name) at level 50 that I did 20 hours ago at level 10. Apply dots, spam AOE's until there's one target left, then spam single target attacks. Rise and repeat approximately 5,000 times.

Regardless of which class you choose, you can play through close to 95% of the base game by literally hitting 4-5 buttons.

this is my impression of MMORPGs in general. not a whole lot of 'game' there - they seem to me to be chatroom lobbies with interactive visuals

hitbyambulance wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:08 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:58 pm the moment to moment gameplay is remarkably dull. I'm doing the exact same thing with the same abilities (that might have a different name) at level 50 that I did 20 hours ago at level 10. Apply dots, spam AOE's until there's one target left, then spam single target attacks. Rise and repeat approximately 5,000 times.

Regardless of which class you choose, you can play through close to 95% of the base game by literally hitting 4-5 buttons.

this is my impression of MMORPGs in general. not a whole lot of 'game' there - they seem to me to be chatroom lobbies with interactive visuals

If you are going to boil it down like that it covers most games doesn't it? We do the same thing over and over again as all the numbers slowly get bigger. They don't call it a gameplay loop because the gameplay is wildly divergent. I guess the exception would be sports games where the numbers basically stay the same.

coopasonic wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:13 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:08 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:58 pm the moment to moment gameplay is remarkably dull. I'm doing the exact same thing with the same abilities (that might have a different name) at level 50 that I did 20 hours ago at level 10. Apply dots, spam AOE's until there's one target left, then spam single target attacks. Rise and repeat approximately 5,000 times.

Regardless of which class you choose, you can play through close to 95% of the base game by literally hitting 4-5 buttons.

this is my impression of MMORPGs in general. not a whole lot of 'game' there - they seem to me to be chatroom lobbies with interactive visuals

If you are going to boil it down like that it covers most games doesn't it? We do the same thing over and over again as all the numbers slowly get bigger. They don't call it a gameplay loop because the gameplay is wildly divergent. I guess the exception would be sports games where the numbers basically stay the same.

i suspect you actually know what i'm trying to get at here, but if not, one analogy: pachinko vs pinball. in pachinko, you're pulling a plunger repeatedly to launch balls mindlessly and endlessly, hoping to score by chance - skill does not play a part. in pinball, you need to be able to read the table and ball, anticipating the ball's trajectory, utilizing a knowledge of the mechanical actions (including how much to pull the plunger itself), gauging extra scoring opportunities and attempting for them, knowing when to TILT, etc. to put a fine point on it: in a comparison of MMORPGs vs CRPGs, MMORPGs are pachinko and CRPGs are pinball

again, this is my impression...if i am off-base, someone can tell me why i'm wrong.

this is also not a perfect analogy - i'm not saying MMORPGs are completely bereft of skill like, say, a slot machine. but lowest common denominator appeal is of a high need when designing these things, and the barrier to entry for a new subscriber (in order to keep reaping the monthly subscription fees) needs to be extremely approachable, and the in-game rewards need to keep registering. in any event, the social aspects need to take precedence.

coopasonic wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:13 pm

hitbyambulance wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:08 pm

Skinypupy wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 5:58 pm the moment to moment gameplay is remarkably dull. I'm doing the exact same thing with the same abilities (that might have a different name) at level 50 that I did 20 hours ago at level 10. Apply dots, spam AOE's until there's one target left, then spam single target attacks. Rise and repeat approximately 5,000 times.

Regardless of which class you choose, you can play through close to 95% of the base game by literally hitting 4-5 buttons.

this is my impression of MMORPGs in general. not a whole lot of 'game' there - they seem to me to be chatroom lobbies with interactive visuals

If you are going to boil it down like that it covers most games doesn't it? We do the same thing over and over again as all the numbers slowly get bigger. They don't call it a gameplay loop because the gameplay is wildly divergent. I guess the exception would be sports games where the numbers basically stay the same.

Yes, there will always be repetition. However, SWTOR seems to take it to an extreme, at least in comparison to other MMO's.

For example, a Black Mage in FF XIV plays very different at level 50 than it does at level 10. New abilities get added and entirely new mechanics are introduced that change how you play. In addition, bosses get progressively more difficult, and if you don't figure out how to use your new abilities and how to mitigate boss attacks, you'll end up dead pretty quickly.

SWTOR has literally none of that. You'll use the same basic skills and same basic abilities for a boss as you will for a trash mob, they just take a little bit longer to kill. I have yet to see any mechanics at all, at least ones that I've had to actively do anything different to avoid. The only time I've died is when I accidentally fell of a cliff...I have yet to find a single enemy that has taken me below 50% of my health bar.

The dying part used to be easy. But like WOW and most MMOs SWTOR has been nerfed to be easy. You used to require groups and now you can solo the entire game.

hitbyambulance wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 6:25 pm
this is also not a perfect analogy - i'm not saying MMORPGs are completely bereft of skill like, say, a slot machine. but lowest common denominator appeal is of a high need when designing these things, and the barrier to entry for a new subscriber (in order to keep reaping the monthly subscription fees) needs to be extremely approachable, and the in-game rewards need to keep registering. in any event, the social aspects need to take precedence.

I only have experience in a few MMORPGs, but I spent about 7 years in a high end WoW raiding guild. Many instances and all raids take a great deal of skill if you do them at level. You can grind basic quest mobs without needing a lot of skill, but completing a 25 man raid where everybody needs to be a tightly focused team is the opposite of mindless button mashing.

That's a misunderstanding about MMOs. While some (myself included) dislike the fact, the core community of most MMOs, and thus the developers look at it this way: Level 1 until you hit max level is the tutorial. The game, as far as they're concerned, starts at max level, and that's where skill comes into play.

And even more grinding to get the stuff/reputation to fully implement that skill.

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:41 pm That's a misunderstanding about MMOs. While some (myself included) dislike the fact, the core community of most MMOs, and thus the developers look at it this way: Level 1 until you hit max level is the tutorial. The game, as far as they're concerned, starts at max level, and that's where skill comes into play.

And even more grinding to get the stuff/reputation to fully implement that skill.

I would generally agree, but at least WoW had some relatively difficult instances back in the day. I remember struggling with Blackfathom Deeps and Uldaman even with some experienced groups, and most of the 50-60 dungeons got downright brutal.

Ive never cared for or done raids. I max a character then another then another. The end game is a boring repeat tiresome thing.

gbasden wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:53 pm

Blackhawk wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:41 pm That's a misunderstanding about MMOs. While some (myself included) dislike the fact, the core community of most MMOs, and thus the developers look at it this way: Level 1 until you hit max level is the tutorial. The game, as far as they're concerned, starts at max level, and that's where skill comes into play.

And even more grinding to get the stuff/reputation to fully implement that skill.

I would generally agree, but at least WoW had some relatively difficult instances back in the day. I remember struggling with Blackfathom Deeps and Uldaman even with some experienced groups, and most of the 50-60 dungeons got downright brutal.

Even a lot of the leveling content was tough back then. Cataclysm came out 11 years ago, and that all changed.

Paingod wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:08 amI spent the weekend playing Grim Dawn, finally trying my first Hardcore build. I opted for a Necromancer/Occultist build, one I'm most familiar with and one I know can be absurdly powerful without requiring me to be up front in the thick of it.

Kind of takes the wind out of your sails when your character touches a shrine, three Champions spawn, and you're dead 2 seconds later.

Note to self: Turn off Veteran before Warden Krieg's home.

Daehawk wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:56 pm Ive never cared for or done raids. I max a character then another then another. The end game is a boring repeat tiresome thing.

For you. For me, levelling 20 characters is a boring repeat tiresome thing. Doing something difficult with a lot of friends was fun.

gbasden wrote: Tue Feb 09, 2021 1:14 am

Daehawk wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:56 pm Ive never cared for or done raids. I max a character then another then another. The end game is a boring repeat tiresome thing.

For you. For me, levelling 20 characters is a boring repeat tiresome thing. Doing something difficult with a lot of friends was fun.

in a roguelike, you can level infinity characters repeatedly while doing something difficult! best (or worst, depending on your mindset) of all worlds

Paingod wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 10:59 pm

Paingod wrote: Mon Feb 08, 2021 8:08 amI spent the weekend playing Grim Dawn, finally trying my first Hardcore build. I opted for a Necromancer/Occultist build, one I'm most familiar with and one I know can be absurdly powerful without requiring me to be up front in the thick of it.

Kind of takes the wind out of your sails when your character touches a shrine, three Champions spawn, and you're dead 2 seconds later.

Note to self: Turn off Veteran before Warden Krieg's home.

Your post made me fire up Grim Dawn again. It's a game that I enjoyed, but never actually got around to finishing when it came out. I got about 3/4 of the way through, then wandered off for some reason or another. I've always meant to go back and try it again with the xpacs, and now is as good a time as any.

Since Diablo 3 moved to console, it's been a loooooong time since I've played an ARPG on my PC. Was surprisingly fun spending a couple hours with it last night.