The Art of the Donald Trumpocalypse

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:19 pm

I'm still not 100% convinced he's not working for Bill. That being said, I'm tired of the racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe shaming mob that has become the fashion these past few years.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:29 pm

msduncan wrote:That being said, I'm tired of the racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe shaming mob that has become the fashion these past few years.

I'm not going to argue that many folks are far too quick to start throwing labels around - but in this case you've got Paul Ryan and other Republicans calling Trump's statements racist.

Captain Caveman · Post by **Captain Caveman** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:31 pm

msduncan wrote:I'm still not 100% convinced he's not working for Bill. That being said, I'm tired of the racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe shaming mob that has become the fashion these past few years.

If Trump is not a racist, the term has no meaning. His political rise started with the birther nonsense and demands to see Obama's college transcripts. He launched his campaign fear-mongering about Mexican immigrants, calling them rapists and murderers, despite actual facts showing they commit such crimes at a lower rate than citizens. He called for a banning of an entire religion from our country. He says a judge can't do his job because of his ethnic background... that it's a conflict of interest because Trump has been so publicly bigoted. He's now repeatedly using Pocahontas as a slur.

And that's not even mentioning his stuff from the past... the landlord bit, the Central Park 5 (which I'm surprised hasn't been discussed much yet).

But you're more offended by people calling out racism than the racism itself?

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:39 pm

Captain Caveman wrote:
msduncan wrote:I'm still not 100% convinced he's not working for Bill. That being said, I'm tired of the racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe shaming mob that has become the fashion these past few years.
If Trump is not a racist, the term has no meaning. His political rise started with the birther nonsense and demands to see Obama's college transcripts. He launched his campaign fear-mongering about Mexican immigrants, calling them rapists and murderers, despite actual facts showing they commit such crimes at a lower rate than citizens. He called for a banning of an entire religion from our country. He says a judge can't do his job because of his ethnic background... that it's a conflict of interest because Trump has been so publicly bigoted. He's now repeatedly using Pocahontas as a slur.

And that's not even mentioning his stuff from the past... the landlord bit, the Central Park 5 (which I'm surprised hasn't been discussed much yet).

I'm confused. Mexican isn't a race. It's a nationality, no? How can you be racist against nationals?

Why is there something wrong with being critical of nationals from another country who are breaking the law to come here, and breaking more laws when they earn money and don't pay taxes, etc?

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:47 pm

Watching the mental gymnastics necessary to support Trump is fascinating.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:48 pm

The article I quoted is from Fortune Magazine, not Mother Jones. Hardly a left-wing liberal publication. The book that tells the story of Trump Casino is from 1991, not quite the last few years. In addition, the government action from '73 is a matter of record, not "opinion" and Trump admitted himself that the casino story was "probably true".

When I was in school they used to teach something called "reading comprehension" Perhaps MSD was out sick that day.

[Cleaned up because Tapatalk doesn't like the mike in my phone. Pfui.]

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:49 pm

Nothing to see here. Move along,

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 12:51 pm

tgb wrote:The book that tells the story of Trump Casino is from 1991. the last few years.

25 to be exact.

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:31 pm

msduncan wrote: I'm confused. Mexican isn't a race. It's a nationality, no? How can you be racist against nationals?

By any realistic interpretation, "I hate Chinese" is every bit as racist as "I hate Asians." (And even if you add "but I think Koreans are probably OK" it doesn't change anything.)

Why is there something wrong with being critical of nationals from another country who are breaking the law to come here, and breaking more laws when they earn money and don't pay taxes, etc?

You mean like Justice Curiel, an American born in Indiana and whose parents have been U.S. citizens since 1946?

That's like hating Charles Schulz because of the Kaiser.

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:35 pm

Holman wrote:
"...and he was never once accused of being racist by anyone until he decided to run against the Democrats."
A better translation would be "His racism was never treated as a big deal until he decided to run for President of the United States."

Unless you think we should have a Racism Police going after everyone all the time, it makes perfect sense that Trump's racism wouldn't have become a matter of wide public concern until his current campaign.

But there's a montage of pictures, taken over decades, of him standing next to actual BLACK PEOPLE! Sure, saying you have "lots of black friends" is great, but documented proof that you have stood next to not one, but several? Instant non-racist cred right there.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:42 pm

msduncan wrote: That being said, I'm tired of the racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe shaming mob that has become the fashion these past few years.

Good grief, this is a stupid comment.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 1:48 pm

msduncan wrote:Here's a good one too:

Meh, it really isn't all that good.

Fact-Check: When Jimmy Carter Threatened Iranian Students With Deportation

On Nov. 10, 1979, six days into the 444-day hostage crisis, Carter ordered Attorney General Benjamin Civiletti to begin deportation proceedings of Iranian students—and only Iranian students—found to be illegally in the United States. The Attorney General always had that authority, and attorneys general have exercised it to a larger or lesser extent, depending on the administration (Obama’s has been the harshest of the last couple of decades). The difference with Carter’s order is that it targeted a specific class of people, a specific nationality. In that regard, Carter was giving in to public pressure to look like he was “doing something” in the face of the hostage crisis in its early days.

To enforce the order, Civiletti on Nov. 13 issued an order for all Iranians with student visas to report to federal immigration offices or face deportation, according to the New York Times at the time. Students alone were targeted because the hostage-takers in Tehran were purportedly students. All other Iranians in the United States, including tourists, business travelers, other visitors, Iranian students who’d immigrated, and all other Green Card holders, were exempt. For student-visa holders, that would have been a limited registration system of a sort, but it didn’t get very far: on Dec. 11, Federal District Judge Joyce Hens Green, who had been appointed to the bench by Carter just seven months earlier, gave Carter a thank you note by way of ordering his and his attorney general to immediately stop enforcement of the Civiletti order–and forbade the administration from using any information gathered on the students until that point.

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:13 pm

Completely off the mark on the first one. And if you can't see why, there's no helping.

http://www.politifact.com/punditfact/ar ... me-jimmy-/

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:15 pm

"Facts are stupid things." - St. Ronnie

tjg_marantz · Post by **tjg_marantz** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:21 pm

Kurth wrote:
msduncan wrote: That being said, I'm tired of the racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe shaming mob that has become the fashion these past few years.
Good grief, this is a stupid comment.

This comment doesn't get enough roll eyes.

Tired of racist shaming. How you long for the good old days? Oy vey.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:25 pm

Some Austrian dude wrote:All this was inspired by the principle—which is quite true within itself—that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:44 pm

MSD using Al Sharpton to prove his guy is OK is one of the stranger things this election has produced.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:45 pm

Look, so he said all that. But does it really make Trump a racist? Or does it just make him honest? We all know that blacks are lazy. We know that Jews are at their best when in the counting room. But Trump gets crucified in the press for it saying what we're all thinking. Remember, the last guy that was crucified for telling it like it is was Jesus (by Jews who weren't counting money...hmmm).

America 2016. Love it.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:47 pm

msduncan wrote:I'm still not 100% convinced he's not working for Bill. That being said, I'm tired of the racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe shaming mob that has become the fashion these past few years.

Really? You know what I'm tired of? The racism/bigotry/sexism/homophobia that has become the fashion these past few decades.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 2:51 pm

msduncan wrote:

And these are just a few of his African-Americans.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:01 pm

Alefroth wrote:
msduncan wrote:
And these are just a few of his African-Americans.

He'll gladhand anyone if he thinks it can bring him money. He buddied up to Sharpton to help him get Don King to bring fights to his properties in Atlantic City. Every guy in those photos is a business opportunity, not a friend.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:11 pm

msduncan wrote:

Oh, hey, look at that -- that image is hotlinked from snopes.com. Surely the article there will back up your assertion.

Claim: Donald Trump was never called a racist before he started running for president.
FALSE

...

Origin: A meme featuring several images of Donald Trump posing with prominent African-Americans was widely circulated on Facebook in May 2016, along with the claim that the real estate mogul was "never once accused of being racist by anyone" until he started his 2016 presidential campaign (and implying that he was being accused of racism purely for the purpose of scoring political points).

However, Trump was accused of racism long before he announced that he was running for president.

Followed by a bunch of boring old sourced examples of Trump being accused of being racist.

Pro-Tip: If you really must be lazy enough to hotlink your meme (and all of us do, from time to time, with the exception of Isgrimnur), at least steal bandwidth from someone who doesn't refute your point.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 3:13 pm

Carpet_pissr · Post by **Carpet_pissr** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:16 pm

Max Peck wrote:Pro-Tip: If you really must be lazy enough to hotlink your meme (and all of us do, from time to time, with the exception of Isgrimnur), at least steal bandwidth from someone who doesn't refute your point.

Hey now, I absolutely do not do that anymore, once someone here educa...shamed me into not doing it.

Truly, the shaming is rampant.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:26 pm

Max Peck wrote:
msduncan wrote:
Oh, hey, look at that -- that image is hotlinked from snopes.com. Surely the article there will back up your assertion.
Claim: Donald Trump was never called a racist before he started running for president.
FALSE

...

Origin: A meme featuring several images of Donald Trump posing with prominent African-Americans was widely circulated on Facebook in May 2016, along with the claim that the real estate mogul was "never once accused of being racist by anyone" until he started his 2016 presidential campaign (and implying that he was being accused of racism purely for the purpose of scoring political points).

However, Trump was accused of racism long before he announced that he was running for president.

So if Trump's remarks about Curiel are textbook racism, would MSD's post be textbook trolling?

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:38 pm

Carpet_pissr wrote:
Holman wrote:
"...and he was never once accused of being racist by anyone until he decided to run against the Democrats."
A better translation would be "His racism was never treated as a big deal until he decided to run for President of the United States."

Unless you think we should have a Racism Police going after everyone all the time, it makes perfect sense that Trump's racism wouldn't have become a matter of wide public concern until his current campaign.
But there's a montage of pictures, taken over decades, of him standing next to actual BLACK PEOPLE! Sure, saying you have "lots of black friends" is great, but documented proof that you have stood next to not one, but several? Instant non-racist cred right there.

Civil rights activists. Some of the first to swing the racism bat around too.

msduncan · Post by **msduncan** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 4:48 pm

Checking out of R&P again. Rip: it's all yours buddy. Have a great election guys!

I like interacting with you guys in the non-R&P forums better. When I find myself getting angry at you, I know it's time to check out. I've known most of you longer than many of my friends or coworkers, so I'd just assume this election not poison the friendships because it's going to be a nasty one.

My final comment: I'm angry. It's the fuel that is driving this Trump train because most of his supporters are far more angry than I am. I'm mad at safe places, I'm mad at public shaming, I'm mad a violent protests, I'm mad at trying to tear down anything you don't agree with or understand. The world has been an extreme left playground for 8 years and it's pushing a lot of us to a very angry boiling point. So I don't want that anger to boil over here and ruin the OO friendships I've enjoyed for 16(wow has it been that long!) years. See you on the other side of the election.

One final final comment: I fully expect Hillary to win and be a one-termer for no other reason than Saban will likely be at Alabama for another 4 years before hanging it up. I can't see him lasting much longer than that.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:04 pm

...meanwhile Trump seals the coveted Bob Dole endorsement:

DOLE: I've been a Republican all my life. And I know that both candidates are flawed. And Trump has done some things that would curl your hair, things that he shouldn't have said. Some Republicans say, well, I can't vote for Trump. I have an obligation to the party. I mean, what am I going to do? I can't vote for George Washington. So I'm supporting Donald Trump. I've talked to him twice and hope to talk to him again and just congratulate him for toning down the rhetoric and talking about the issues and not about people.

Translation: Republican has to do what a Republican has to do...so I'll vote for him. Hilarious.

Exodor · Post by **Exodor** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:10 pm

msduncan wrote: The world has been an extreme left playground for 8 years

W.T.F.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 5:57 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: To be fair, he was never once accused of being racist (and I'm taking that on faith) until he started saying racist things to appeal to Republicans.

He's been called sexist and occasionally misogynist for most of his adult life.

Does that count?

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:00 pm

GreenGoo wrote:
RunningMn9 wrote: To be fair, he was never once accused of being racist (and I'm taking that on faith) until he started saying racist things to appeal to Republicans.
He's been called sexist and occasionally misogynist for most of his adult life.

Does that count?

Also racist (you'll see when you get caught up on the thread

).

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:08 pm

msduncan wrote: My final comment: I'm angry. It's the fuel that is driving this Trump train because most of his supporters are far more angry than I am.

msduncan wrote:Hey -- I just saw it come across Twitter in my feed. I didn't dive deeper because who would have thought

These might be related. The world isn't as extreme, or in as dire straits as you and others are being led to believe.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 6:16 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote: He'll gladhand anyone if he thinks it can bring him money. He buddied up to Sharpton to help him get Don King to bring fights to his properties in Atlantic City. Every guy in those photos is a business opportunity, not a friend.

Absolutely. It's hard to believe anyone could think otherwise.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:24 pm

Exodor wrote:
msduncan wrote: The world has been an extreme left playground for 8 years
W.T.F.

When every action that doesn't fall exactly in line with the GOP talking points is considered "extreme left", then yeah, I can see how the world would look that way.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:46 pm

msduncan wrote:
Carpet_pissr wrote:
Holman wrote:
"...and he was never once accused of being racist by anyone until he decided to run against the Democrats."
A better translation would be "His racism was never treated as a big deal until he decided to run for President of the United States."

Unless you think we should have a Racism Police going after everyone all the time, it makes perfect sense that Trump's racism wouldn't have become a matter of wide public concern until his current campaign.
But there's a montage of pictures, taken over decades, of him standing next to actual BLACK PEOPLE! Sure, saying you have "lots of black friends" is great, but documented proof that you have stood next to not one, but several? Instant non-racist cred right there.
Civil rights activists. Some of the first to swing the racism bat around too.

Because the people who opposed civil rights activists (in the classic sense, since your support of the 2nd amendment kind of makes you one too ) weren't racist?

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:46 pm

So let me get this straight:

MSD pulls an image from a source that directly contradicts the point his is trying to make,
is presented with facts that he doesn't bother to dispute to counter his argument, and when called out on his actions takes his ball and goes home.

No wonder he can relate so well to Trump.

gbasden · Post by **gbasden** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 7:53 pm

Skinypupy wrote:
Exodor wrote:
msduncan wrote: The world has been an extreme left playground for 8 years
W.T.F.

When every action that doesn't fall exactly in line with the GOP talking points is considered "extreme left", then yeah, I can see how the world would look that way.

To be fair, anyone more liberal than Mussolini is "extreme left" these days to most of the GOP.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:20 pm

Kurth wrote:
msduncan wrote: That being said, I'm tired of the racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe shaming mob that has become the fashion these past few years.
Good grief, this is a stupid comment.

The KKK and other white nationalist groups love this argument. If calling out racism and homophobia is now easily trivialized as acts of "political correctness", they have won the day.

tgb · Post by **tgb** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:54 pm

hepcat wrote:
Kurth wrote:
msduncan wrote: That being said, I'm tired of the racist/bigot/sexist/homophobe shaming mob that has become the fashion these past few years.
Good grief, this is a stupid comment.
The KKK and other white nationalist groups love this argument. If calling out racism and homophobia is now easily trivialized as acts of "political correctness", they have won the day.

But he's right. Why should racists/bigots/sexists/or homophobes have anything to be ashamed of?

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sat Jun 11, 2016 8:56 pm

Smoove_B wrote:...meanwhile Trump seals the coveted Bob Dole endorsement:

DOLE: I've been a Republican all my life. And I know that both candidates are flawed. And Trump has done some things that would curl your hair, things that he shouldn't have said. Some Republicans say, well, I can't vote for Trump. I have an obligation to the party. I mean, what am I going to do? I can't vote for George Washington. So I'm supporting Donald Trump. I've talked to him twice and hope to talk to him again and just congratulate him for toning down the rhetoric and talking about the issues and not about people.
Translation: Republican has to do what a Republican has to do...so I'll vote for him. Hilarious.

Or..."He's an asshat but by golly he's our asshat."